The Taste of Fish and White Wine vs Red

[Don Giovanni]

THE TASTE OF FISH AND WHITE WINE VRS RED AND WHY WE SOME MAY PREFER ONE OVER THE OTHER.

Ok this one is all about science and understanding both red wine and fish share this in common, that is the conversion of histidine into histamine... with grapes during fermentation, especially during malolactic fermentation...histidine gets converted into histamine......this is primarily done with red wines and suppressed with whites, thus white wines that do not go through ML fermentation and the level of histidine is very low in relation to Red wine...if however a red wine is flash pasteurized or SO 2 ed enough as a suppressant prior to any ML fermentation than the ML will not occur you will have wines on equal footing as white and red as would have a bout the same level of histamine.... these wines would taste in theory the same with fish as far as being offensive or not , due to the similar content and interaction of histamine...

Fact that during a natural process of decaying the fish multiply the conversion of histidine into histamine thus making the fish ripe or rancid...

So what we know in taste is that minerals in wine combined with histamine make for a bad pairing...it's all about the science of histidine and if it's converted more in Red wines than the study may have stumbled on this reason IMVHO...

FYI histidine is one of many amino acid and originates from the grapes in the vineyard as a source...

the charts in this link offer you a more in depth detail of what is in a grape, obviously it very complex...

Click On Me

Cheers !!!

[Blether]

Was it here at eG, or in the newspaper, that I read just recently that an organised tasting had determined that the red wines that don't work with fish are the ones that have a higher iron content ? (A rhetorical question).

[Don Giovanni]

Blether,

Click On Me

FAIR USE IN EDUCATION

Iron is an essential cause of fishy aftertaste formation in wine and seafood pairing.

Tamura T, Taniguchi K, Suzuki Y, Okubo T, Takata R, Konno T.

Product Development Research Laboratory, Mercian Corporation, Jonan 4-9-1, Fujisawa, Kanagawa 251-0057 Japan. tamura-t@mercian.co.jp

Fishy aftertaste is sometimes perceived in wine with fish and seafood pairing. However, what component of wine clashes with seafood or what compound contributes to the unpleasant fishy aftertaste in the mouth remains an open problem. First, intensities of unpleasant fishy aftertaste of wine and dried scallop pairings were rated by sensory analysis. Second, components of the wines were analyzed. Strong positive correlations were found between the intensity of fishy aftertaste and the concentration of both total iron and ferrous ion. Moreover, the intensity of fishy aftertaste was increased by the addition of ferrous ion in model wine and suppressed by the chelation of ferrous ion in red wine. Third, potent volatile compounds of fishy aftertaste, such as hexanal, heptanal, 1-octen-3-one, (E,Z)-2,4-heptadienal, nonanal, and decanal, were determined by gas chromatography-olfactometry and gas chromatography-mass spectrometry in dried scallop soaked in red wine. The formations of these compounds depended on the dose of ferrous ion in the model wine. These results suggest that ferrous ion is a key compound of the formation of fishy aftertaste in wine and seafood pairing within the concentration range commonly found in wine.

[Blether]

Hi again, Don G. I spoke with Mr. Tamura of Mercian. He says:

Thank you very much for contacting us regarding our study, "iron is an essential cause of fishy aftertaste".

魚では、Histamine産生菌により、HistidineからHistamineが作られます。

ワインでも、Histamineが乳酸菌などから、わずかな量ですが産生されます。

しかしながら、Histamineは、無味・無臭といわれております。

もちろん、Histamineが生成されたような魚(rot fish)では、他の要因でodorやtasteが発生しています。

健康上の問題でHistamineが話題になることはあるようですが、

ワインと魚の食べ合わせにはHistamineは関係がないかもしれません。

このような情報でお役にたちますでしょうか。

ありがとうございました。

Histamines are created from histidine in fish due to the presence of histamine-generating bacteria.

In wine, lactobacillus and others generate histamines, but only in very small amounts.

Even so, histamines are said to have no flavour and no smell. Of course, in fish in which histamines have appeared (rotted fish), odours and flavours are created from other causes.

It seems that histamines have become a topic of conversation with regard to health issues, but histamines probably don't have much to do with the pairing of wine and fish.

[Don Giovanni]

I beg to differ....any way good day..Cheers !!!

[Lisa Shock]

I'm wondering if there's an easy way to perform the chelation in a restaurant or home setting without affecting the wine's aroma and flavor too much. I found a little online, but not much.