Is Dining Out at a Restaurant a Special Occasion?

[Jesikka]

fwiw, even when dinner is a "special occasion" ... I never ever ever tell the restaurant.  why?  cause it marks you as an "amateur diner"...someone who only eats out on special occasions...unfair I know...but that's kind of the way they see it...at places like JG or Per Se, probably half their business is composed of "special occasion" diners...i.e. people who won't be regulars...you always want to be seen as a potential regular.

←

A restaurant as high end as Per Se is not going to ask you whether it is a special occasion or not. If you let them know, however, they often send out extra dishes or seat you in a particularly great seat. I don't think they're looking to send out a dessert with candles or a plate that says happy birthday. I disagree that you want to be seen as a potential regular at those sorts of places. The only potential regulars at JG and Per Se are the regulars- and the restaurant already knows them. I find that truly high end restaurants around the world put in some extra effort when you let them know that you're celebrating something.

[Jesikka]

New Yorkers, by the way, at least according to the Zagat statistics, eat fewer meals out per week than residents of several other cities).

←

Far from a scientific study of the evidence, clearly. There's obviously a bias of which people answer the Zagat surveys in which cities. The potential flaws with the statistics seem pretty clear. Are they including delivery?

[Fat Guy]

Sure, the Zagat statistics tend to be unreliable, but as comparative metrics they're still worth knowing about:

When it comes to who eats out most, New Yorkers are also average at 3.3 times per week, which is also the U.S. average. Texans take a clean sweep for dining out most, with Houston at 4.2 times per week, and Dallas/Fort Worth and Austin/Hill Country both 4.0 times per week.

I can see a lot of potential flaws with the Zagat statistics, though it's not clear to me why those flaws would argue for underreporting in New York and overreporting in Texas.

The more reliable statistics would probably come from the National Restaurant Association. They're more precise and speak in terms of "commercially prepared meals per week." That would include delivery, corporate cafeterias, just about anything other than a home-prepared meal. The problem is that I don't have access to state-by-state and city-by-city data from the National Restaurant Association. I assume they have it but that it's something one has to pay for. If anybody has access, I think the right report to check is "Meal Consumption Behavior — 2000." The summary states "The typical American age 8 and older consumes an average of 4.2 commercially prepared meals per week, according to Meal Consumption Behavior — 2000, a recent report by the National Restaurant Association." That report may have local breakdowns as well. I'm not sure.

[Nathan]

to me the obvious question is: NYC or Manhattan?

I'm sure that the majority of the 8 million people in NYC eat the vast majority of their meals at home.

on the other hand, the only place I've ever lived where a large portion of the population only keeps condiments in their refrigerators is Manhattan below 96th street.

this is always the problem with NYC stats...(i.e. the average two bedroom apartment in NYC rents for 1200 a month or something like that...well...yeah...but.................................)

(I'd also speculate that the Zagat population is significantly older and more likely to be married than the actual Manhattan median)

Edited January 31, 2008 by Nathan (log)

[Jesikka]

Sure, the Zagat statistics tend to be unreliable, but as comparative metrics they're still worth knowing about:

When it comes to who eats out most, New Yorkers are also average at 3.3 times per week, which is also the U.S. average. Texans take a clean sweep for dining out most, with Houston at 4.2 times per week, and Dallas/Fort Worth and Austin/Hill Country both 4.0 times per week.

I can see a lot of potential flaws with the Zagat statistics, though it's not clear to me why those flaws would argue for underreporting in New York and overreporting in Texas.

The more reliable statistics would probably come from the National Restaurant Association. They're more precise and speak in terms of "commercially prepared meals per week." That would include delivery, corporate cafeterias, just about anything other than a home-prepared meal. The problem is that I don't have access to state-by-state and city-by-city data from the National Restaurant Association. I assume they have it but that it's something one has to pay for. If anybody has access, I think the right report to check is "Meal Consumption Behavior — 2000." The summary states "The typical American age 8 and older consumes an average of 4.2 commercially prepared meals per week, according to Meal Consumption Behavior — 2000, a recent report by the National Restaurant Association." That report may have local breakdowns as well. I'm not sure.

←

Well, quite a few NYers eat a good portion of their weekday meals via delivery, so if all of those meals were excluded it wouldn't surprise me if their overall restaurant consumption looked lower than many other cities. That being said, the individuals in this city who participate in the Zagat surveys are of a very particular type, and not necessarily representative of NYers generally. After all, there has to be an explanation for Union Square Cafe's annual triumph.

[Nathan]

right. the median Manhattan below 96th street diet is probably something like this:

purchased bagel on the way to work.

Hale & Hearty soups for lunch.

diner, Chinese or Italian delivery at home for dinner.

[Chris Hennes]

The problem is that I don't have access to state-by-state and city-by-city data from the National Restaurant Association. I assume they have it but that it's something one has to pay for. If anybody has access, I think the right report to check is "Meal Consumption Behavior — 2000."

←

Unfortunately, this report does not break it down on a state-by-state basis, or a city-by-city, but only by a "geographic region" and population. So the Northeast has the highest percentage of meals eaten out per capita, and larger cities have more people eating out, but there is nothing NY specific in the report. Unfortunately, the fire alarm went off before I got to the photocopier, so I don't have any numbers for you... (the latest report is noncirculating - doh!).

[JAZ]

It's amazing to me that Alex Witchel would question the notion that there's such a thing as a special occasion at a restaurant -- almost as amazing to me as the New York Times's decision to give a platform in the dining section to someone who doesn't seem to know very much about dining.

. . .

All in all I think Alex Witchel uses a lot of words to make a simplistic point that also happens to be wrong.

←

I finally got a chance to read this column, and I'd disagree that she even makes a point at all. Her writing is always strained and unfocused, but this column is so confused I don't see how it got into print.