Thornton's Restaurant Dublin

[Corinna Dunne]

KT was there himself doing 'the rounds' and it was nice to know that the food was actually being cooked by the name above the door.  We got into a bit of a chat about how the canape bar was going and he was very anxious to point out what a success it was. (Maybe Saturday is not a good canape day in Dublin??)  I made the mistake of mentioning that I was recently at L'Atelier Joel Robuchon in London and saw some comparison, before I was told that it was 'nothing like it' and that 'his is two bites and mine is one'.!!!

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That's interesting. I haven't heard of anyone being in the canapé bar (apart from the launch) except for what I've read on this thread. Anyone I mentioned it to just didn't feel like going to Thornton's for a few bites. It's got a bit of an all or nothing barrier, I think.

When I was there, it was only opening in the evenings. Did he mention that it's now open at lunch time (as I think he had planned to roll it out for lunch)?

What fascinates me most is the mention in the IT piece about his plans to open restaurants overseas. I would have thought that his focus should be on getting the one in Dublin squared away first, apart from the fact that I think his concept isn't unique enough to offer him the necessary standout. Something more informal that focuses on top Irish produce would have international legs... but this isn't his formula at the moment.

[Simon_S]

In many ways it's hard to see why Thornton's is suffering from the no customer/no buzz problem. Previously I would have said that price was the barrier, but Chapter One is booked out months in advance at the moment and nobody seems to baulk at the prices there. It's a shame really, because I think there's some genuinely good food to be eaten here, and some really good cooking on display.

The thing is, leaving aside all considerations of refurbs, canapés, PR etc. it's worrying that the restaurant isn't doing great business in this climate. It always seem to be just off the radar, even amongst those in the know. It could be that the sense there's no "craic" to be had whatsoever is continuing to be a problem. Certainly, when the restaurant is full and everything's working smoothly, there's a very enjoyable atmosphere, and the staff aren't nearly as straight-laced as their reputation would suggest. We had a lot of laughs with them on our last visit. Still, that was a Saturday night. When people are there, it's quite lively, but it's just not achieving that critical mass at all times.

I can't disagree with your assessment of the atmosphere, Corinna, but I think the canapé area *could* work if it just caught on. Granted, it needs to be better lit, and the location beside the door to the kitchen is not ideal, but I think if the vibe was right if would be easy to put up with such things. I have to say, when there I wished they would tone down the service end a little. The idea of casual canapés is somewhat ruined when the linens and silverware are the same as you would get in the dining room, and food is served with a similar reverence. It's a fine line, of course, you don't want stuff thrown at you and paper napkins from a dispenser, but somehow the canapé concept is falling between two stools at the moment. It's neither nibbles-while-you-chuck-back-the-booze, nor is it fine dining. Of course, I think it's still *good* which is enough to sway it for me, but probably not enough for most.

Incidentally, if you're genuinely hungry and looking to turn the canapés into a meal it can indeed be done, but it really requires the judicious addition of cheese/dessert. It won't quite bring you up to dinner prices, but you'll be spending enough to get a decent meal elsewhere. The canapés would probably be better served as an accompaniment to drinks, but the lack of atmosphere more-or-less rules it out as a location for this. I still believe if that changed, and things became busy and buzzy, that really would be a possibility, and quite a pleasant way to start an evening out.

At the moment I doubt there are many people who have been for canapés but who have never eaten in the restaurant proper. That's pure speculation of course, but I don't think they're bringing in a new and different clientele with this idea. I think if that changed, things might be different and the atmosphere would improve. Time will tell.

One more thing… the piece also mentions that Thornton hopes to open restaurants in other parts of the world (no indications of where) and wanted a design ”that would create a strong identity.”  Hmmm…

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East (and I don't mean UK) would seem to be a safe bet.

Nettle and Bombay Sapphire sorbet...with a little gin poured on at the table which I think was aimed to impress.  It didn't.

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I really enjoyed the sorbet I must admit, and I don't normally like gin. I certainly thought it was very refreshing.

Si

[Corinna Dunne]

At the moment I doubt there are many people who have been for canapés but who have never eaten in the restaurant proper. That's pure speculation of course, but I don't think they're bringing in a new and different clientele with this idea. I think if that changed, things might be different and the atmosphere would improve. Time will tell.

I think the fact that you have to walk up two quiet flights of carpeted stairs to get there doesn't help relax the mood. And it certainly takes it out of the impromptu drop-in category. Another barrier.

[RDB]

KT was there himself doing 'the rounds' and it was nice to know that the food was actually being cooked by the name above the door. We got into a bit of a chat about how the canape bar was going and he was very anxious to point out what a success it was. (Maybe Saturday is not a good canape day in Dublin??) I made the mistake of mentioning that I was recently at L'Atelier Joel Robuchon in London and saw some comparison, before I was told that it was 'nothing like it' and that 'his is two bites and mine is one'.!!! This sort of ended the conversation as it was too nice a day to get into the fact the the sea urchin I had at L'atelier disappeared in ONE eager bite.

From what Corrina says above about them being 'in every sense of the word canapes', I would say Thorntons comments are spot on. L'atelier is small tasting dishes, not canapes, so will be more than one bite, albeit not always 'two'. I also think the urchin dish is the one that comes with carpaccio of scallop and avruga eggs, which is more than a bite?. Maybe KT has a dry sense of humour.

[Bails]

I would also agree with the fact that it is two (potentially intimidating) floors up is a real killer-if it was at street level it would be much more accessible in every sense of the word. As its not, the fact that it's positioned beside the kitchen should work to it's advanatage-there could be such potential capitalising on the buzz and busyness coming from a busy service. Getting caught up in the middle of that might make it feel more relaxed as well.

From what you described of the canapes Corinna they sound really good and get the curiosity going more so than some of the dishes on the restaurant menu.

[Corinna Dunne]

Bails, the canapés reflect the menu in Thornton's, so I wouldn't say that they are more exciting. They are very much the way he is marketing them: little bites of Thornton's.

He mentions on his blog that the canapé bar is going well, click here. Maybe I was just there on a quiet night.

[augustine]

I am getting worried about the way in which atmosphere or "craic" is such a feature of this thread about Thortons. Is there not enough craic in the pubs around Portobello and Temple bar? We have a situation where two of the three best Irish chefs in the world are trading their craft abroad. Cathal Armstrong in Virginia, Richard Corrigan in London and thanks be god, Dylan Mc Grath in Dublin. How long McGrath will stay is uncertain. He has already being saying that his decision not give a side of vegetable has left some customers upset, a truly rediculous reaction after tasting his starters and amuse. If he goes he wouldn't be back. I remember speaking to Corrigan about 8 years ago in Cloyne and he laughed at the notion of returning. The Mill does not count as a return.

I recently had canapes at Thortons. It was my fifth visit for canapes. Sea bass, grouse, goats cheese, mackerel and duck all real successes as canapes, foie gras with almonds not so. I also had a cheese board which had some excellent two year old comte. I go for the wine list. The canapes are just a bonus. That I can get a bottle of wine served perfectly, from a list that has some great offerings works perfectly as a concept, as long as you remember that canapes are not for filling up but rather to start the enzymes working.

I don't think Thorton's is the best restaurant in the country, not even top five. It lacks maturity in the front of house and the food is often good rather than great, but what has worked for me is the canape and wine offer. Craic it isn't but if I needed atmosphere to make a bottle of burgundy work I would be my neighbour's slave. I'll miss my canapes.

[Simon_S]

Tom Doorley penned a fairly glowing review of Thornton's in Saturday's Irish Times. For those who may have missed it, he starts by saying that the cooking seemed less fussy than some previous meals there, and then goes on to describe an array of dishes, including some that I recognise myself from recent visits. For example:

impeccable John Dory lying in a shallow pool of - here my vocabulary lets me down - a cross between a foam and a cream that was pure essence of truffle. It produced a sense of near ecstasy.

Yes indeed, TD, I enjoyed something similar and had a similar response. He mentions later that the red snapper arrived cooked "absolutely à point", which again was our experience there with various fish dishes. He even goes as far as to say it was an impeccable lunch, praise indeed from TD.

Perhaps the most interesting part of the report is his comment that lunch was "exceptionally good value". As he points out, that will come as a surprise to a lot of people. I wonder will this review translate to an increase in bums on seats there at lunchtime. Can't hurt!

Si

[Corinna Dunne]

It seems that Tom Doorley is particularly taken with 2,4 dithiapentane these days. It produced “a sense of near ecstasy”.

The red snapper dish that Simon mentions sounds interesting:

My wife's red snapper, on the other hand, kept up the performance not least in being cooked absolutely à point. It came with something between a foam and a puree, once again, and this time it was made from smoked peas. Smoked peas? Yeah, right. A daft thing to do with the first delicate little peas of summer. But it wasn't. It was just lovely.

[Simon_S]

2,4-dithiapentane

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Yeah, and there's truffle oil in it too!

Actually I was going to mention this coz I was somewhat surprised at TD's apparent ecstasy. I've had that foam and very much liked it, but I was in no doubt that truffle oil was involved. I'm not as sensitive as yourself, Corinna, but I thought Doorley would mention it.

It's interesting that TD notes that the meat was cooked perfectly. I was talking to someone recently (whose judgement I trust) who felt the meat (esp duck) was too well-done. I can't remember my own experiences. Certainly though, the fish has always been spot-on.

Si

[Corinna Dunne]

Perhaps the most interesting part of the report is his comment that lunch was "exceptionally good value". As he points out, that will come as a surprise to a lot of people. I wonder will this review translate to an increase in bums on seats there at lunchtime. Can't hurt!

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Apparently it was doing very well on Friday. A friend of mine was there for lunch and was very impressed. It was a business lunch, a table for 11, which Shanahan’s had said that they could only accommodate as a 6 and 5 seater. So top marks to Thornton’s on that, and double the score for serving the whole table the €85 taster menu.

Thornton did the rounds of the tables after lunch, but didn’t venture over to their very lively large table. Probably afraid of another "chips” incident!

[Brian]

I've been lucky enough to enjoy lunch in Thornton's on two recent Saturdays. There were two or three empty tables on both occasions. By contrast, Patrick Guilbaud's was booked out when we phoned about two weeks in advance.

Truffle oil featured on both visits - once on a serving of gratin potatoes to accompany a duck main course (this was served closer to medium rare than rare), and on the second visit added to some savoy cabbage that sat under a breast of guinea fowl. The effect on the cabbage was pretty subtle, and worked OK, but the potato dish was spectacularly good!

Kevin Thornton worked the room when the service was winding down on both occassions, so this must be part of a new charm offensive. It's a great idea and adds a little personality to the experience for diners, though I wonder what would happen if the feedback wasn't the unqualified praise he seemed to be receiving when we were there.

While the food at lunchtime is extraordinarily good value, when you add in drinks, coffees, water etc. the bill starts to add up to a special occassion.

[Corinna Dunne]

Kevin Thornton was named Irish Chef of the Year at the Food & Wine 2007 Awards on Sunday.

A very popular choice. He got a standing ovation. Everyone likes to see a man bounce back. He was in top form and mentioned about his slightly bad start to the year with the chips incident, which got a great laugh.