NYC Foodies, Get Thee to New Jersey

BrianYarvin · November 11, 2007

Dianabanana:

Oak Tree Road is pretty incredible!

Check out this link: Oak Tree Road

Don't forget to read the hilarious/angry restaurant reviews.

waves2ya · November 11, 2007

Brian - that link is hilarious...!

"Indian Restaurants are like Bollywood beauty queens. They seldom age gracefully.

A small few like Bollywood diva Rekha might look better with age. But most turn into old hags, wrinkles and all, and eventually fade away into the night, unnoticed and unmourned."

"Will someone please tell the constipated-looking bespectacled manager/cashier at the Sukhadia's sweets counter on Oak Tree Road in Edison/Iselin not to stare at customers like a nitwit?"

I think I've seen the future of review blogs here...!

BrianYarvin · November 12, 2007

Brian - that link is hilarious...!
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I've been reading this guy's reviews for years. He's the nastiest critic that ever existed.

Who is he? What makes him so mad?

Oh...and since this is the New York board, I'll included this link that leads to his other reviews.

Edited November 12, 2007 by BrianYarvin (log)

Dianabanana · November 12, 2007

Dianabanana:
Oak Tree Road is pretty incredible!
Check out this link: Oak Tree Road
Don't forget to read the hilarious/angry restaurant reviews.
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God almighty, this is something I never could have imagined in a million years! I just can't get over it. It's like a weird reverse Back to the Future. Indian pizza joints? I looked at the map and I know exactly where Moksha is--it's right near my old house. I am so glad I read this thread. I have sometimes thought of going back there just to take a look around, but I think I would have had a stroke if I'd stumbled on all of this unawares!

Here's the weirdest bit: I now live in a very small town in Idaho, and am friends with someone in my same profession here who, amazingly, also lived right off Oak Tree Road at the same time I did, although we never knew each other then. He's going to keel over when I show him this!

Edited out typos due to state of stunned disbelief.

Edited November 12, 2007 by Dianabanana (log)

plattetude · November 12, 2007

For those whose interest in Cucharamama has been piqued, I'll add that one of their special options worth considering is a roast suckling pig (which used to be strictly an off-the-menu item, but I guess the word's gotten out, so it's listed on the website at least). Do note that you'd need to order at least five days in advance.

That said, though, the standard menu is so well stocked with killer items (my wife and I both dream about the onion and cabrales empanadas, for instance). For a first visit, bring a big appetite and a crowd and order as much as you can from the menu.

Christopher

Nathan · November 12, 2007

One major enticement I'd throw out is that dining out in NJ can be a great value because so many of our restaurants are BYO (wine/beer). Every time I go to Blu in Montclair, for instance, I am blown away by Chef Zod's cooking and presentation, and with a ridiculously large tip, it's still hard to spend more than $50pp. I don't know of any restaurant in NYC where I can get that quality and calibre of food with wine for that price!
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that's pointless once you throw in travel costs and time.
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$9.25 round trip & 35 minutes on the train from Penn Station. Calculate the pointlessness as you will.
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I bill for my time. I'll travel for food I can't get in Manhattan...not for food that's merely cheaper (cause it's not once you consider opportunity cost).

Jammin · November 12, 2007

Well, FWIW, I did go to Mitsuwa for the Tuna Cut event as a direct result of this thread. The place was a complete zoo; must have been triple the normal amount of people there. But I'll have to say 8 guys hacking apart a 500-lb tuna carcass was quite a spectacle to behold. The sushi being sold was on the average side even if it was cheap as hell, but I'm glad I went.

That said, transit was a pain in the ass. The Port Authority bus was easy enough to use, but on the way back, the return line was so long we had to wait for the next bus, so that tacked another half hour on to the trip. We also hit some nasty stop-and-go tunnel traffic that nearly made my girlfriend carsick. I don't think you can discount the transit issues at all when asking Manhattanites to go to New Jersey.

Edited November 12, 2007 by Jammin (log)

kathryn · November 12, 2007

Well, FWIW, I did go to Mitsuwa for the Tuna Cut event as a direct result of this thread. The place was a complete zoo; must have been triple the normal amount of people there. But I'll have to say 8 guys hacking apart a 500-lb tuna carcass was quite a spectacle to behold. The sushi being sold was on the average side even if it was cheap as hell, but I'm glad I went.
That said, transit was a pain in the ass. The Port Authority bus was easy enough to use, but on the way back, the return line was so long we had to wait for the next bus, so that tacked another half hour on to the trip. We also hit some nasty stop-and-go tunnel traffic that nearly made my girlfriend carsick. I don't think you can discount the transit issues at all when asking Manhattanites to go to New Jersey.
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Maybe the topic name should be "NYC Foods, Get Thee to Jersey, and bring some Dramamine"? The same thing happens to me, a lot, too, in stop and go traffic. In this case, perhaps renting a car and going via the GW Bridge would have been better?

Also, did you guys purchase any perishable groceries there? My mother goes to a similar Japanese market in South California, and always get amazing hamachi kama and sushi grade fish, but she has a car and a cooler. I fear trying to get similar goods home to my place in downtown Manhattan!

Perhaps in the list of recommendations, eGulleters can give recommendations on how to get there / when to go with minimum hassle, whether it be bus or train or whatever.

Edited November 12, 2007 by kathryn (log)

Jammin · November 12, 2007

In this case, perhaps renting a car and going via the GW Bridge would have been better? Did you guys purchase any perishable groceries there?

We didn't buy much in the way of perishables, but I was tempted to crack open my 12-pack of Kirin and start selling them on the bus!

It's been mentioned before, but a rental would just add so much more suck than it would eliminate - shopping around for a good rental deal and making a reservation, sinking $50-100 for said rental, queueing up for the non-EZPass line, scheduling around the open/close times of the rental company, negotiating the tunnel traffic directly instead of letting the bus driver deal with it, etc.

No, this is definitely a case where the bus wins hands down. If I were to buy sushi-grade fish, I'd plan on bringing a cooler with a few ice packs or something and just take my chances.

Melissa Hom · November 12, 2007

Mitsuwa is about the closest I can get to a vacation...and the only place I can find my beloved .3 ball point pens. Can't speak highly enough of their great products - sakes, breadstuff, croquettes, imported roots and fruits. And their themed/celebratory days are good fun.

Fat Guy · November 13, 2007

A producer from WNYC radio (that's the NPR station in New York City) got in touch with me and we taped a segment about the NY/NJ issue this morning. It should air in the morning one day later this week, and I'll try to post about that if I get advance notice -- if not, it will be on the website afterwards. She's also going to join us on the NJ field trip in January, recorder in hand, for a follow-up story.

Anyway, I promised I'd give WNYC a list of recommended New Jersey food destinations for their website and was hoping I could get a little help. This isn't a list strictly conforming to the "better than NYC" criterion. I'm just looking for one or two places per category to recommend in New Jersey: Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Indian, Southeast Asian, Italian, Spanish/Portuguese, burger, hot dog, etc. I think I've got a few of those categories covered from personal knowledge, and a couple of others I can get from posts on this topic. I could use help with:

1 - What's the best NNJ Chinese now that China 46 is on hiatus?

2 - What's the best NNJ Japanese?

3 - What's the best Portuguese and/or Spanish place in the Ironbound?

4 - What's the best NNJ Korean restaurant?

5 - What's the best Southeast Asian (Thai, Vietnamese, etc.)?

6 - What's the best Italian-American red-sauce place, and the best Italian market?

7 - Anything else not yet mentioned on this topic that simply must go on a NNJ best-of list targeted at NYC residents.

Curlz · November 13, 2007

What's the best NNJ Chinese now that China 46 is on hiatus?

Chengdu 1 in Cedar Grove for authentic Sichuan

Noodle Chu in Parsippany for real Cantonese (go for dim sum on a Sunday)

Sidebar:

If anyone is in touch w/Cecil from C46, there's a good-sized (overly ornate, imo) former Chinese restaurant sitting VERY empty right off of Rt. 17 N on Rt 120 in Carlstadt/E. Rutherford; if you take the Paterson Plank Rd/120 exit off of 17N, don't blink or you'll miss it on the right.

What's the best Portuguese and/or Spanish place in the Ironbound?

I have a soft spot for Casa Vasca b/c the food is great and it's really a place for the locals.

And imo, you can't do this segment without hitting Amazing Hot Dog in Verona (right outside of Montclair)! They've been at the top of an awful lot of Best of NJ and Best Hot Dog lists since they opened, often besting 'classic' NJ hot dog spots. And I'm betting there aren't many places in NYC that can offer their selection or quality of toppings.

SusanGiff · November 13, 2007

A couple more suggestions:

5 - What's the best Southeast Asian (Thai, Vietnamese, etc.)? I haven't been to other Vietnamese in NJ, so some else may want to weigh in, but Little Saigon (formerly in Nutley, now in Montclair) is excellent.

6 - What's the best Italian-American red-sauce place, and the best Italian market?

No one on eGullet ever seems to talk about the oddly named American Bistro, also in Nutley--a big, beefy, Italian-American restaurant with massive portions of terrific food. Best? Who knows? There are so very many to choose from, and sadly, it seems that every time an interesting restaurant goes out of business here, it's replaced by an Italian one. Ditto Italian markets in terms of quantity, but in Montclair, where I am, I love the previously noted Belgiovines, and especially Rosario's, which carries amazing organic meats, homemade sausages, and superb imported everything, including real Italian Nutella!

(edited after reading FG's post more carefully)

Edited November 13, 2007 by SusanGiff (log)

Fat Guy · November 13, 2007

No no, not too late at all. We have all day.

BrianYarvin · November 13, 2007

Here's my opinion:

1 - What's the best NNJ Chinese now that China 46 is on hiatus?

Grand Shanghai on Route 1 in Edison is my vote. A serious Shanghai style place similar in scope and aspiration to China 46.

6 - What's the best Italian market?

Piccolo Gastronomia Italiana

484 Bergen Blvd, Ridgefield

This place is fantastic and hardly ever mentioned on the web.

eyedoc · November 13, 2007

This is a silly discussion. NYC is the food capital of the world. Especially if you are including all 5 boroughs, there is NO restaurant in NJ that is better than one in NYC. Mitsuwa is a supermarket. I was there last year for the tuna fiesta and it was great. But not a destination place to eat. I love cafe matisse in rutherford. But why would someone come from NYC to eat there. I go there because its 15 minutes from my house. If 11 Madison Park of Union Sq. Cafe was 15 minutes away from my condo, do you really believe cafe matisse is worth the trip? c'mon. Wondee's is excellent Thai and it's 5 minutes from my place. If I was near the 7 train and Sripaithai, why go to Hackensack. When my friends from NY come to visit, we all loved China 46. But was it better than Spicy & Tasty? C'mon. Vietnamese in JC? Pretty good but I only eat there when I visit friends from JC. White Manna. Please. Edison- Jackson Heights. Passaic - Corona or Sunset Park. Paterson - Astoria. While I love living in NJ and love eating here, be real. It's not worth the effort. Come for a day trip and enjoy the experience. At least you could say you've been to Rutt's Hutt. I went to Chicago and ate a Superdawg and Gino's East Pizza. Went to New Haven for Pepe's pizza. Sorry, bad example. Pepe's is worth a trip from anywhere.

MJP · November 13, 2007

1 - What's the best NNJ Chinese now that China 46 is on hiatus?

I can't speak for Chengdu 1, but Hunan Cottage in Fairfield's Chinese menu can't be missed. China Chef in Secaucus does a decent dim sum on Sundays.

2 - What's the best NNJ Japanese?

I've heard good things about Matsushima in Edgewater, behind Mitsuwa - it's where the Japanese businessmen go for reminiscence. However, nothing beats Tomo's Cuisine in Little Falls for fresh, beautiful sushi and seriously authentic Japanese food.

3 - What's the best Portuguese and/or Spanish place in the Ironbound?

There's so many of the best; Brasilia Grill on Congress Street really takes the cake for the best rodizio out there. For non-rodizio Portuguese, Sol Mar way down Ferry Street is NOT to be missed. Casa Vasca is the place to go for serious Spanish and Catalan cooking. It has the most delicious mariscada out there anywhere.

4 - What's the best NNJ Korean restaurant?

Keo Ku is solidly superior Korean food if you're from out that way and don't want to go all the way to Fort Lee/Ridgefield Park. But you're really missing out if you're not going to the Korean areas of Bergen. Myung Ga has a fantastic selection... there are silken tofu soups that are pure wonder in the winter.

5 - What's the best Southeast Asian (Thai, Vietnamese, etc.)?

I really like River Kwai in Totowa. The location is deceiving from the outside, but the range and variety of dishes are superb. Brookside Thai in Bloomfield is also seriously wonderful.

6 - What's the best Italian-American red-sauce place, and the best Italian market?

The best red-sauce place? E&V in Paterson (it's not the hellish part!). The best market? Corrado's in Clifton.

7 - Anything else not yet mentioned on this topic that simply must go on a NNJ best-of list targeted at NYC residents.

South Paterson can't be missed. Toros (the one in Clifton, just on the Paterson border) has kofte kebab that will blow your mind and fish dishes that are subtle and wonderful if you like whole small fish. Stop at Nablus or Mondial on Main Ave. for dessert. Or just grab a pita sandwich and fresh fruit shake at Assayad.

I also really like Sabor Peru in Rutherford; it's a very sexy place in a town that's getting a rep for very sexy restaurants.

JohnnyH · November 13, 2007

This is a silly discussion. NYC is the food capital of the world. Especially if you are including all 5 boroughs, there is NO restaurant in NJ that is better than one in NYC. Mitsuwa is a supermarket. I was there last year for the tuna fiesta and it was great. But not a destination place to eat. I love cafe matisse in rutherford. But why would someone come from NYC to eat there. I go there because its 15 minutes from my house. If 11 Madison Park of Union Sq. Cafe was 15 minutes away from my condo, do you really believe cafe matisse is worth the trip? c'mon. Wondee's is excellent Thai and it's 5 minutes from my place. If I was near the 7 train and Sripaithai, why go to Hackensack. When my friends from NY come to visit, we all loved China 46. But was it better than Spicy & Tasty? C'mon. Vietnamese in JC? Pretty good but I only eat there when I visit friends from JC. White Manna. Please. Edison- Jackson Heights. Passaic - Corona or Sunset Park. Paterson - Astoria. While I love living in NJ and love eating here, be real. It's not worth the effort. Come for a day trip and enjoy the experience. At least you could say you've been to Rutt's Hutt. I went to Chicago and ate a Superdawg and Gino's East Pizza. Went to New Haven for Pepe's pizza. Sorry, bad example. Pepe's is worth a trip from anywhere.
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As a four-year NY to NJ transplant, I wholeheartedly agree.

slkinsey · November 13, 2007

This is a silly discussion. NYC is the food capital of the world. Especially if you are including all 5 boroughs, there is NO restaurant in NJ that is better than one in NYC. . . .
. . . Come for a day trip and enjoy the experience. At least you could say you've been to Rutt's Hutt. I went to Chicago and ate a Superdawg and Gino's East Pizza. Went to New Haven for Pepe's pizza. Sorry, bad example. Pepe's is worth a trip from anywhere.

I've resisted weighing in on this thread up until now, but something about this resonates with me. I've gone over to NJ on foodie trips any number of times, usually with Fat Guy but also with a number of other friends (even took the train to the Ironbound). There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that NJ is full of excellent restaurants. There are a few, in particular, that have for me been best-in-class (White Manna and China 46).

That said, while one can make the argument that NYC people are missing out on a few specific restaurants and markets by not traveling across to Jersey, I'm not sure it follows that they are missing out in general or that it's incumbent upon any serious NYC foodie to explore New Jersey.

First of all, it's a simple fact that just the island of Manhattan and short-time travel off the island to subway-convenient places -- never mind the whole five boroughs -- is so rich in culinary possibilities that it is inexhaustible to any other than the very most dedicated epicure. Yes, there may be a best-in-region South Indian place or a plethora of hot dog standouts in Jersey. Honestly, considering that I am not South Indian myself and don't have a burning desire to experience every single cuisine of South India, nor am I a serious hotdogophile, I am not too terribly motivated to plan a trip outside of the city to try these things. Not when there are probably 50 places on my Manhattan list I haven't been able to try yet.

Now, this is not to say that I don't like to say "yes" when Fat Guy calls and asks if I'd like to go to brunch at China 46 or says he's running an errand in Jersey and might I like to tag along for some amazing South Indian food. Heck, I've even accompanied him to Bridgeport just because we could swing by Super Duper Weenie on the way. The point here, however, is that these were opportunities I capitalized on, involving little or no effort on my part -- and the real game anyway was having fun with my friends. I wouldn't have made those plans myself unless there was some other reason for me to be in Jersey. Certainly I wouldn't spend Zipcar money just to eat at China 46. Since I have storage capibilities typical of a Manhattan apartment, the ability to shop at Costco and other big box stores hasn't found me taking too many Zipcar rides across the river. This doesn't necessarily make me lazy, although I am lazy, but just means that I have limited time and resources and choose to spend them pursuing food closer to home. It helps to influence my thinking that most of the NYC oppoertunities are at least as good as what New Jersey has to offer, and usually better. In fact, there are very few unavailable-in-NYC categories that would possibly interest me (I don't have the storage or the cooking chops to take advantage of, e.g., an Asian megastore and major travel for cheap eats is not my bag). I can't imagine my situation or thinking about these things is particularly unusual.

It's also perhaps worthy of note that the Fat Guy family uses their car far, far more than any other NYC car owners I know -- most of whom garage their cars and use them for occasional trips upstate, to the Hamptons, etc. People who are in the habit of driving the car several times a week, and who have the kind of flexibility in work hours that allow them to get over to Jersey and back in between rush hours on a weekday are much better positioned to take advantage of the markets and restaurants Jersey has to offer. I, too, might find myself in Jersey more often if it didn't mean renting a car or scrounging a ride and sacrificing the better part of a precious weekend day to do it.

Coming back around to eyedoc's point, I just don't see that anyone has made the case that there is all that much to be missed by not making special culinary trips out to Jersey several times a year for anyone other than, e.g., a hot dog or South Indian food fanatic. And, in the case of many of these claimed can't miss places, it doesn't seem to be so much "better than NYC" as it is "largely unavailable in NYC." I don't really see the argument yet that there is any place in New Jersey that is so good, that is operating at such a high level, that it's incumbent upon NYC foodies to experience it. A good example of what I'm talking about is at the end of eyedoc's post: New Haven Pizza. Anyone who lives in the greater NYC area who has a real interest in pizza really, truly is missing out of they don't figure out some way to get to New Haven for pizza. If Sally's and Pepe's were in Edgewater, there would be a real argument that NYC foodies were missing out by not traveling across the river, and foolish for not doing so. But I don't see anyone making a credible argument that there's a restaurant of that level just across the river, never mind several. It's worthy of note that several NJ residents who are familiar with the NJ and NYC dining scenes have weighed in on exactly the other side.

So, I guess I weigh in on the side that says: There are some rewarding places in NJ worth checking out if you happen to find yourself over there for whatever reason, but unless you're a hot dog or South Indian cuisine fanatic, or someone who frequently travels long distances for food, there aren't too many compelling reasons to plan a food-focused trip to Jersey.

ghostrider · November 13, 2007

6 - What's the best Italian-American red-sauce place, and the best Italian market?
The best red-sauce place? E&V in Paterson (it's not the hellish part!). The best market? Corrado's in Clifton.
I also really like Sabor Peru in Rutherford; it's a very sexy place in a town that's getting a rep for very sexy restaurants.
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Corrado's is one of Jersey's great melting-pot experiences & worth a visit. The variety & value they offer in many categories certainly puts them up there. They do, however, tend to leave their produce out until it rots, so I would not rate them "best" as a market.

My town is becoming known for sexy restaurants? I like it! Sabor Peru is right around the corner just before Cafe Matisse & thus also easily reached by train via the directions I gave above.

5 - What's the best Southeast Asian (Thai, Vietnamese, etc.)?

For Malaysian cuisine, Taste Of Asia in Chatham serves food that's unlike any other place I've ever been. If there's as good, or better, Malaysian food to be had in the region, please share!

Fat Guy · November 14, 2007

If I understand it correctly, Sam's position is that even if there are X number of restaurants in New Jersey that are categorically superior to their New York City equivalents, it's still not worth going to them because New York City "is so rich in culinary possibilities that it is inexhaustible to any other than the very most dedicated epicure."

New York City has a lot of good restaurants, I agree, but it has quite a limited number of best-in-category restaurants. Rather, I think what Sam's statement indicates is simply his preference for pizza over South Indian food. My contention is that Moksha is as superior to the best New York City South Indian as Sally's and Pepe's are to the best New York City pizza. So, assuming I'm right about the food-quality issue, if you think it's worth a trip to New Haven for Sally's and Pepe's but not worth a trip to Edison for South Indian then that's a personal preference. Moreover, at least there's good pizza in New York City. It seems to me that to say:

And, in the case of many of these claimed can't miss places, it doesn't seem to be so much "better than NYC" as it is "largely unavailable in NYC."

is to get it backwards: if you have to go all the way to New Haven to get something that's a few percent better or slightly different than what you can already get in New York, that's something you only do if you're a pizza fanatic. If you simply can't get a serious South Indian food experience in New York City, and your only choice for getting one is to go to Edison, then that's a far more powerful argument for going to Edison than having a few-percent-better place in Edison would be. It's easy to close oneself off to a cuisine like South Indian cuisine, because it seems abstract and "other," but to do that seems a shame. As much as I love pizza, I've got to say that by any objective measure of sophistication, complexity, depth, etc., one should take South Indian cuisine more seriously than pizza.

I'll stop repeating the following arguments from here on in. You can just assume they're added to every post I make: 1- The car issue is a red herring because plenty of public transportation is available. We've been mapping out the train, bus and walking routes. That excuse just doesn't work. 2- Making a day of it is a great idea and something I've advocated all along. 3- It should be evident by now that the "there are only two places" argument is an inaccurate representation of the discussion we've been having. For one thing, the most pared-down list is eight places so far. For another thing, we are at the very beginning of generating the list. And for still another thing, even if there were only two places then they would be two places well worth visiting.

HungryChris · November 14, 2007

So, I guess I weigh in on the side that says: There are some rewarding places in NJ worth checking out if you happen to find yourself over there for whatever reason, but unless you're a hot dog or South Indian cuisine fanatic, or someone who frequently travels long distances for food, there aren't too many compelling reasons to plan a food-focused trip to Jersey.

Frankly Sam, as someone who travels to Manhattan regularly from rural CT for many things, among them food, I find this statement of yours in support of FG's original premis. Furthermore, you are a lazy Manhattan foodie!!!

HC

Edited November 14, 2007 by HungryChris (log)

slkinsey · November 14, 2007

If I understand it correctly, Sam's position is that even if there are X number of restaurants in New Jersey that are categorically superior to their New York City equivalents, it's still not worth going to them because New York City "is so rich in culinary possibilities that it is inexhaustible to any other than the very most dedicated epicure."

No, this is a mischaracterization of my positions. Perhaps it's easier if I put them this way:

As I said before, there are plenty of good restaurants in Jersey. Plenty of "categorically superior" restaurants? I don't think so. I haven't seen any convincing, credible arguments that New Jersey is particularly rich in restaurants that are "categorically superior to their New York City equivalents." So far, you have made one convincing argument: Moksha. If one has a particularly keen interest in South Indian food, I can see a compelling reason to make a special trip out to Moksha in Jersey. If one's interest in South Indian food is no more keen than, say, one's interest in several dozen other culinary styles -- and I easily could name at least 30 Manhattan restaurants I'd like to visit or revisit more than I'd take extra trouble to visit a South Indian restaurant -- I do not see a compelling reason to make a special trip out to Jersey for food.

Furthermore, while I stipulate that it may be a shame that I haven't been exposed to the pinnacle of South Indian food, it's also an equal shame that I haven't been exposed to tons of restaurants and culinary styles that are available right here in Manhattan. I mean, I'm a serious cocktailian and haven't even been able to find the time to visit all the bars on my list, never mind all the restaurants. For example, Eben Freeman is supposed to be doing amazing things at Tailor, and I haven't been there yet. I'm certainly going to have a drink at Tailor before I spend half a day driving over to Jersey to eat South Indian food. And that's the point I'm making about Manhattan's inexhaustible culinary possibilities.

So, what I'm saying is that I think there are a few specific Jersey standouts that are worth the trip for people who have certain specific interests, but as an overall culinary destination I don't see any compelling reason for a NYC resident to make special trips out there. In order for the trip to be worth the bother, the culinary destination has to be extraordinary -- as you say, "categorically superior to their New York City equivalents." What do we have in Jersey that is head-and-shoulders "categorically superior to their New York City equivalents"? A South Indian restaurant? Okay, that's one. A bunch of hot dog places? Um... maybe? I guess, if you're really into hot dogs. White Manna? No, not really. It's a fun experience and the sliders are great -- I'll even say better than any NYC sliders. But I wouldn't say that the sliders there are so much better than anything available in NYC that it would be worth making a special trip across the river for them. What else? Some Asian megamarkets? I barely have enough room in my apartment to contain the Asian foods I buy in Chinatown.

1- The car issue is a red herring because plenty of public transportation is available. We've been mapping out the train, bus and walking routes. That excuse just doesn't work.

To suggest that public transportation is a viable alternative to transportation by car is disingenuous at best. I've taken public transportation to some Jersey spots, and it was never worth the hassle. Not once. If you're Jim Leff and you're willing to ride the bus for 4 hours to get a really great taco, maybe it's worth it -- otherwise not. There is no Jersey spot of which I am aware that is not more hassle (and expense) to visit via public transportation than, say, Di Fara pizzeria -- and less than a handfull that are as far above their respective baselines as Di Fara. And, I should point out that Di Fara is a major hassle to visit via public transportation in my book, and as a result I haven't been there in over two years and am unlikely to revisit it unless I am in the neighborhood on other business.

2- Making a day of it is a great idea and something I've advocated all along.

The fact that you have to make a day trip of it is precisely why most people don't and won't bother. With all sincere respect, as a family of work-at-home, set-your-own-schedule, food-focused writers who drive their car a lot, I think your threshold for "restaurant worth taking a day trip to visit" is significantly lower than it is for 40-hours-a-week office workers, never mind 70-hours-a-week lawyers and bankers or people like myself who have a 40-hours-a-week dayjob plus perhaps another 25 hours of real-career work.

If you're suggesting that New Jersey across the river is a great place to visit with many things to offer to the day-tripper in and of itself, I would agree. People inclined towards that sort of thing can have a great time in Jersey and, while they're there, they should certainly take advantage of some of the restaurants Jersey has to offer. But that's not quite the same thing as "taking a trip to Jersey to go to a restaurant." That's more along the lines of "since you're in Jersey anyway, why not visit one of the better restaurants." I've done this myself and dropped in on White Manna when I've been in Jersey on other business. But I'm sure not planning a 4 hour round trip around White Manna. And I don't know about too many other people, but spending a precious weekend day in Jersey going to a South Indian restaurant, visiting an Asian megastore and having some hot dogs isn't too appealing to me. I'm not saying I'd never do it (if I had a free Saturday and you suggested we go on a hot dog tour of Jersey I might be enticed for the fun of it, and no more so than if you suggested something like an afternoon of kite-flying with the kids in Jersey), but I'm unlikely to do it very often -- and certainly I'd never in a million years do it by public transportation. The payoff is simply not worth the time investment and hassle. This is why I never went to China 46 unless someone else was driving and invited me along. It was a great place... just not worth renting a car and sure not worth taking the bus (or whatever it would have taken to get there by public transportation, if it was even possible). Clearly I am not in the minority in this respect.

3- It should be evident by now that the "there are only two places" argument is an inaccurate representation of the discussion we've been having. For one thing, the most pared-down list is eight places so far. For another thing, we are at the very beginning of generating the list. And for still another thing, even if there were only two places then they would be two places well worth visiting.

"Well worth visiting" does not necessarily equal "well worth a 2 hour roundtrip car ride, plus associated expenses, versus availing yourself of a Manhatan restaurant."

As for "the list" -- perhaps it might make sense to restate it. I don't think I've seen anywhere near eight places in the "categorically better than NYC" category, never mind "categorically better than NYC to such an extent that it's definitely worth the trip." But, you know... let's say the "list" comprises 20 such restaurants. Does that make it incumbent upon NYC foodies to rent a car or take the train in order to devote a day exploring "culinary New Jersey" when there are easily well over 200 such restaurants in Manhattan alone? Not to me, it doesn't. What it says to me can be summed up thusly:

There are lots of good restaurants in New Jersey. A couple of them are better than anything you can get in New York City. If you find yourself in New Jersey for any reason, you would be well served to visit one of these restaurants. However, unless your culinary proclivities are especially aligned with New Jersey's strengths, or you are the kind of person who enjoys non-haute culinary travel just for the adventure, the culinary payoff is unlikely to be worth the trouble and expense of the trip.

I'm curious: Is there a single metro-NYC Jersey resident who has good familiarity with both NYC and Jersey dining who, were he or she to relocate to Manhattan, would still travel to Jersey for food? Possibly via public transportation?

Edited November 14, 2007 by slkinsey (log)

LPShanet · November 14, 2007

I've been a little disappointed at the lack of response with respect to Japanese cuisine. I was assuming (or maybe wishing) that the presence of Mitsuwa suggested a large Japanese population in the area, and that it would also mean that there were lots of hidden gems representing any of the hundreds of types of Japanese cuisine (other than standard sushi places). Has anyone with serious knowledge of Japanese cuisine heard anything about this? Are any of the NYC eGulleters familiar with any rumors of any kind of Japanese places in NJ that are really worth checking out? Any leads are appreciated.

docsconz · November 14, 2007

I'll throw my $0.02 in. I visit NJ fairly often to visit family and am happy to eat there when it is convenient to do so. There is plenty of very good food, however, with the possible exception of Cucharamama there isn't one place at this time that I can think of that I would make a special trip to go to NJ for in order to dine, while I frequently do so to NYC whether I am in NJ or at home in upstate NY.

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