Carnitas

[Jaymes]

Wow. Nessa, they're gorgeous. And man, you're right, the flavor of the citrus and tequila is fabulous and the "frayed bits" do soak up a lot of it. Wish I had a hot tortilla and could scoop some up right out of your pans. Thanks for posting that.

[snowangel]

Thanks for returning this thread to the top. Glad I started it.

Yes, IMHO, it is all about those frayed bits. I bet my kids grow up not even knowing about the frayed bits.

And, my former and absolutely wonderful Mexican neighbors marinated everything in Lime and Tequila.

Pork shoulder is cheap right now. I think carnits are on the menu VERY soon. 'Twin give me a good excuse to head to the Mercado for freshly made torillas (like a few minutes before I buy them) and a bowl of muendo.

[Marco_Polo]

There is an awful lot of great food writing on this site, much of it inspirational. When this thread was reborn yesterday, I just couldn't resist it. So down to my local butcher for some pork. "Something nice and fatty, please, Tony," I requested. "Some belly?" "No, too fatty. How about some shoulder mixed with some belly." "Fine," said Tony, and went out back to prepare the meat for me, a good couple of kilos.

On returning home, I did roughly as Jaymes instructed. Prepared the meat in cubes, added to a cast-iron dutch oven, covered just with water. To the water, I added, for no particular reason except that it seemed right: a chopped red chilli, a chopped red onion, a good tablespoon or two of ground cumin, a good tablespoon or two of brown sugar, a good pinch of piri piri chilli, a splash of this and that. Brought the pot to the bare simmer and left it for 3 hours or so. As it cooked down, it smelled terrific and the cubes of meat became succulent, tender and juicy. Once almost all of the water had cooked off, the cubes of meat began to fry, and at this point, I turned up the heat and turned the meat cubes not continuously but quite regularly as they browned and began to carmelize. In fact, in the process some cubes shredded and became like pulled pork; others remained intact:

The end result was sensational! Tender succulent cubes of flavourful and spicy meat, with a crunchy, carmelized exterior. We took a plate out into the garden to enjoy in the warm evening sun with some homemade salsa to enjoy as a drinking nibble with a glass or two of chilled Verdicchio. Later we wrapped the carnitas up in warm tortillas together with salsa, a dollop of crème fraiche, a sprinkling of freshly chopped cilantro, a squeeze of lime.

Finished off the rest for breakfast this morning...Only problem? Cleaning the burnt off bits from the enamalled cast iron dutch oven. Right now the pan is soaking and it will take a bit of elbow grease, but it's a small price to pay for such a wonderful treat.

Thanks, Jaymes, and everyone else!

Marc

[nessa]

Y'all are killin' me here. Marco, those look divine!

And since pork IS so cheap right now, I'm having a hard time not going out and making another freakin seven pounds of the stuff. Jaymes, you SO rock. However, I might start naming the lumps on my thighs after you. Obviously its your fault that they appear, since you introduced me to this delicacy, not MINE for eating 3.5 pounds of them.........

Temperance my dear nessa, temperance and moderation....

Oh, and I had no problem cleaning the carmelized bits from my pan. I just sat down and licked it clean.

[Jaymes]

The end result was sensational! Tender succulent cubes of flavourful and spicy meat, with a crunchy, carmelized exterior. We took a plate out into the garden to enjoy in the warm evening sun with some homemade salsa to enjoy as a drinking nibble with a glass or two of chilled Verdicchio. Later we wrapped the carnitas up in warm tortillas together with salsa, a dollop of crème fraiche, a sprinkling of freshly chopped cilantro, a squeeze of lime.

Sublime. Utterly.

Thanks.

[wannabechef]

WOW! That's all I can say! Question for you guys who have done this technique successfully: do you think it's possible to make beef carnitas this way? I think its not fatty enough, but maybe there's a cut which would work? Unfortunately my wife doesn't eat pork so I can't try this great technique at home .

If this method won't work, maybe another form of braising and pulling would be better.

Thanks!

~WBC

[ludja]

Love this thread--I have a nice pork shoulder in the freezer ready to try this out with very soon. Thanks to Jaymes for the detailed instructions--and for those of you who have also followed up with their experiences.

Thanks also to ExtraMSG for the other detailed version simmered in lard.

ExtraMSG: do you use the 'regular' supermarket commercial lard? I render some myself to use in special dishes but I don't usually have as much as would be needed in your recipe... Do you re-use the lard more than once? If so, would appreciate to hear your methods.

I've seen both versions in cookbooks and always wondered if they both give the same great results of my favorite local taquerias. Does anyone have experience in making them both ways? I'd be interested to hear of the differences in the end result.

[NulloModo]

Isn't lard just pork fat? The lard I have is hydrogenated (which I would like to avoid) and apparently doesn't require refridgeration, which sort of scares me. Could I make this by rendering the fat from a bunch of bacon and using that fat as my lard source?

Also, I have made something like carnitas in the past, but I included a can of chiles and diced tomatoes, as well as some chipotles in adobo, so the final texture was more of a very thick stew. I think somehow all of this thick liquid prevented the meat from carmelizing properly, do you then recommend to do it with just the meat, seasonings, and spices?

[Jake]

I  like that the meat got to simmer in tequila for a couple of hours,  then fry in its own fat. The flavor really permeated the meat and I'm not sure that I've ever tasted anything quite so good.  Thank you Jaymes, thank you, thank you, thank you!!  This should fall under that category of something to make at someone elses house.  It's dangerous!

You are more than welcome. I'm going to be spending some considerable time in Mexico sometime during the coming year, at least several months, and will post back as I learn more.

Love that Mexian cuisine is so popular on eGullet. It deserves it.

Maybe I'll post my recipe for chicken enchiladas next. That should give EMSG another "project."

Waiting with baited breath for the recipe, Jaymes!!

So where in Mexico?? Will you take in waifs and borders and cook for us?

[ExtraMSG]

Yeah, I just use the Armour brand manteca. I do reuse the lard, though, and it gets more flavorful with each use. You have to be careful, though, if you're flavoring it because those "impurities" can burn at higher temps, so I keep that stuff separeetly in the refrigerator. The crisper (or rotter, as bill Cosby called it) is full of fats in tupperware in my frig. If only I labeled them....I haven't found a place close to me that sells their lard. They all reuse it for their own chicharron and carnitas. I should ask sometime and see if they'd do so.

You do see the two styles in cookbooks, as I noted. In Kennedy's Essentials, which might be the only book of hers with a carnitas recipe (I don't own any of her Spanish language books, so I can't be sure), she notes that the traditional method is frying in lard, but that a home method is to use water/liquid, like Jaymes does in her recipe, and then fry.

One of my favorite taquerias does carnitas this way. They're really good and I think the key is to adequately season the liquid. I haven't done a head to head test, I think Scott -- DFW is planning on it, but I would think you're giving up succulence for ease in the water method. However, you should be able to impart salinity and miscellaneous flavors (such as using the tequila, citrus, etc) in a way you can't with the lard method.

It's kind of like braised duck vs duck confit, in my mind. It's not so much a question of which is better, but what you want to emphasize. In carnitas, I've found that ultimately I prefer the traditional Michoacan carnitas that are ultra succulent fried only in lard. I like how the richness of the meat contrasts with a spicy salsa on a taco. With braised carnitas, I think you would probably want to avoid a salsa so that it doesn't mask the flavor you've imparted to the meat, assuming you're adding a flavor like most here have done. If you were doing water alone, I would think you'd be mostly doing it for ease, though, and not because it yields the best results (although, some people prefer poached/steamed duck to confit). But again, I haven't done a head to head comparison. I was just trying to solidify a recipe I've been using for a year or so now.

Bayless's Authentic Mexican and Nancy Zaslavsky's A Cook's Tour of Mexico both provide lard methods. Marge Poore's book says almost the exact same thing as Kennedy. Talking with Theabroma, she mentioned that she learned both little water lot of fat and lot of fat little water methods (the water in the fat can keep the temp of the oil from going too high too quickly). There really aren't that many recipes, surprisingly, for carnitas in Mexican cookbooks, though, at least in the English langauge. I don't think any of Martinez's books have one, neither Ortiz's. I know Theabroma has an extensive collection of Spanish language Mexican cookbooks. I'd be interested to know what the standard is there, not that it truly matters.

I was just remembering a trip to Guadalajara I made. I always talk to cabbies about where they like to eat, trying to find places that make good Mexican home cooking. (The most disappointing answer ever was in Puerto Vallarta where a cabbie told me that Outback Steakhouse was the best restaurant in town -- and he really meant it.) Anyway, I was talking to this cabbie who was a real food lover and very proud of the local food. I was complaining that there wasn't the variety of Mexico City and he started going off. One of the things he was most animated about was the carnitas. He was insisiting because they were closer to Michoacan that they knew what they were doing. Indeed, the stands proclaiming Michoacan carnitas were very prominent and I have to say that the carnitas were awesome. They were always the succulent pieces of pork boiled in lard. So I think that cabbie, even though my Spanish is mediocre at best, convinced me and I've tried to emulate those ever since. Plus, there are a good percentage of Mexicans from Michoacan and Jalisco around here and generally the places that do them best do them in big vats of lard. Taste is so much what you are already familiar with or have learned to identify as good.

My advice: try both methods and see which one you like. You may like one for some purposes and another for other purposes.

[ludja]

Thanks for the thoughtful post ExtraMSG and the lard tips...

Re: cookbook carnitas recipes; here are a few others:

Milliken and Feniger (in Mesa Mexicana) have a basic 'confit' type recipe using lard. They stew the pork cubes in the lard with s&p only. They add flavor later by mixing with a salsa.

I have one Martinez book, Food From My Heart. She has a carnitas recipe in which pork with s&p, and orange zest is sauteed/browned in lard in batches. Then cooked stovetop with orange juice until juices reduced. Then baked in oven, tightlly covered.

Thanks also for your Michoacan carnitas stories; sounds like your cabbie detective work payed off in spades.

I will definately try both approaches; I don't think I can lose!

edit for typo

Edited May 20, 2004 by ludja (log)

[nessa]

WOW! That's all I can say! Question for you guys who have done this technique successfully: do you think it's possible to make beef carnitas this way? I think its not fatty enough, but maybe there's a cut which would work? Unfortunately my wife doesn't eat pork so I can't try this great technique at home .

If this method won't work, maybe another form of braising and pulling would be better.

Thanks!

~WBC

Well, you could use the fat cap off of a brisket... that will yield plenty of fat for the final frying. You might even be able to use the brisket itself?

I'm no meat expert, however. Sounds like a plan though.

While I've not tried MSG's fat first method, I can say that the liquid first, fat second method does certainly leave the meat succulent on the inside, and crunchy on the outside. I like this method because all that tequila and lime, or whatever flavor you are braising the meat in, infuses into the meat. The fat stays outside, and bathes the meat, then crispifies it. I made a habanero-tequila salsa to go with, and compliment the tequila flavor in the meat. My goodness, I do believe I'm getting moist thinking about those darn carnitas again. What have you done to me Jaymes? Enabler!!!! Is this the Phood Porn Phenmenon?

Is there a carnita 12 step program? I need a 120,000 step program to keep the carnitas junk out of my trunk!

[fifi]

I have half heartedly tried to do carnitas before but not with what I would call resounding success. Having read through this thread again, I am literally drooling and can't wait for the weekend (my cooking time).

I am really intrigued with the lime and tequila approach. Nessa, do you have any suggestions for proportions? I realize that this does not have to be an exact science but, are you pretty heavy on the lime juice? (I would be.) Is there a tart note in the finished product? I would think that the tart against the fattiness would be a good thing. I am thinking of just adding a little Mexican oregano and maybe a bit of garlic but I am leaning toward keeping it simple with predominately lime and tequila. What about salt? When do you add and how much?

I have been thinking about the beef. Jaymes also indicated in the original post that it is also done with chicken. I can see chicken. You can use thigh meat and fat from a big fat hen. Beef is more problematic. Just thinking here... I am leaning toward using a well marbled chuck with perhaps some added fat from some other source. I am trying to think of a cut of beef that would have the same fat ratio as the typical pork and most come up wanting. That is especially true of our leaner beef these days. (I mean... What nut would make carnitas from wagyu beef? HMMM... )

[balex]

I had quite a success with carnitas last night. A few days ago I cooked a 5 kg piece of pork shoulder in the Italian style (porchetta), so stuffed with lots of sage, rosemary garlic fennel seeds etc. I cooked it slowly for about 24 hours. It was good, very tender , maybe a little greasy when hot. I had about a kilo left, and I cut in cubes, dipped them in diluted maple syrup and browned them in a hot oven for about 20 minutes. They were really delicious. We had them with a salsa cruda in tortillas with slices of avocado.

My 10 year old son and I ate the lot between the two of us.

Thanks for the idea.

[Jaymes]

I am really intrigued with the lime and tequila approach. Nessa, do you have any suggestions for proportions? I realize that this does not have to be an exact science but, are you pretty heavy on the lime juice? (I would be.) Is there a tart note in the finished product? I would think that the tart against the fattiness would be a good thing. I am thinking of just adding a little Mexican oregano and maybe a bit of garlic but I am leaning toward keeping it simple with predominately lime and tequila. What about salt? When do you add and how much?

I, too, am eager for Nessa's exact proportions, but I will wade in here as well.

Just made some a few days ago. To 2 lbs cubed pork shoulder added 2 chopped onions, 4 cloves garlic (smashed and minced), a couple of chopped jalapenos, nice dusting of New Mexico red chile powder, couple teaspoons each of cumin and Mexican oregano. Tossed it all together and let it sit overnight in the fridge. Next day put cubes into large dutch oven and added about 1/4 cup lime juice, 1/2 cup orange juice and 1 cup of tequila. Then enough chicken broth to cover cubes. I added no salt other than what was in the chicken broth. Let that simmer stovetop, partically covered, till the liquid was gone. Then dumped them into a lasagna pan and spread them out into one layer and roasted them at 450 for about 10-20 minutes.

They were wonderful.

But let me restate here that you can add whatever intrigues you to the stewing broth. The whole point is to infuse the meat with flavor while it cooks, and then fry it. Often I add a bay leaf (and remove it of course for the frying stage). This is a great recipe with which to experiment with various types of chiles, herbs, and other seasonings/liquids. As one person suggested, try Coca Cola. In my own personal view, there's no "right way" and no "wrong way." It's hard to screw this up.

PS - Fifi - I haven't made them with beef, but when we lived in New Mexico, I had a Mexican friend that did. She essentially made green chile stew, but without the flour, potatoes, peas, etc., and then when the liquid all boiled away (the Mexicans call this stage carne seca), she fried it up in beef fat that she had rendered from scraps she got from our local butcher. Frequently she used pork lard that she had rendered from her own scraps. Her beef carnitas were really, really good, but I never liked them quite as well as the traditional pork. So please understand that while I am posting and explaining this method, I am not necessarily "advocating" it (to quote a previous poster).

Edited May 20, 2004 by Jaymes (log)

[nessa]

I am really intrigued with the lime and tequila approach. Nessa, do you have any suggestions for proportions? I realize that this does not have to be an exact science but, are you pretty heavy on the lime juice?

Hmmmmmm. I used about 6 smallish limes, I think, and about 2 cups of tequila for the 7 pounds of pork. You are right though, its not an exact science. I dusted with chipotle powder. I want to add some orange juice and call them margarita carnitas! I sprinkled lime juice over the final product as well, just a smidge.

[cjsadler]

Just made some a few days ago.  To 2 lbs cubed pork shoulder added 2 chopped onions, 4 cloves garlic (smashed and minced), a couple of chopped jalapenos, nice dusting of New Mexico red chile powder, couple teaspoons each of cumin and Mexican oregano.  Tossed it all together and let it sit overnight in the fridge.  Next day put cubes into large dutch oven and added about 1/4 cup lime juice, 1/2 cup orange juice and 1 cup of tequila.  Then enough chicken broth to cover cubes.  I added no salt other than what was in the chicken broth.  Let that simmer stovetop, partically covered, till the liquid was gone.  Then dumped them into a lasagna pan and spread them out into one layer and roasted them at 450 for about 10-20 minutes.

Dumb question: When you fry/roast in the oven, doesn't all the onion, garlic and non-pork stuff burn since you aren't stirring it? Or do you throw all that stuff out and just use the cubes at that point?

[Jaymes]

Just made some a few days ago.  To 2 lbs cubed pork shoulder added 2 chopped onions, 4 cloves garlic (smashed and minced), a couple of chopped jalapenos, nice dusting of New Mexico red chile powder, couple teaspoons each of cumin and Mexican oregano.  Tossed it all together and let it sit overnight in the fridge.  Next day put cubes into large dutch oven and added about 1/4 cup lime juice, 1/2 cup orange juice and 1 cup of tequila.  Then enough chicken broth to cover cubes.  I added no salt other than what was in the chicken broth.  Let that simmer stovetop, partically covered, till the liquid was gone.  Then dumped them into a lasagna pan and spread them out into one layer and roasted them at 450 for about 10-20 minutes.

Dumb question: When you fry/roast in the oven, doesn't all the onion, garlic and non-pork stuff burn since you aren't stirring it? Or do you throw all that stuff out and just use the cubes at that point?

I do stir. Guess I should have made that clear. For goodness' sake don't throw out the onions, chiles, etc. It all just kinda disintegrates into a sorta marvelously-flavorful culinary mulch. And the cubes and frayed bits fry up nicely. It doesn't wind up like MSG's well-defined cubes. It looks like Nessa's and Marco Polo's photos. It's ambrosial.

[Jake]

Okay, Jaymes, you know I have to make carnitas now!!! Hopefully I'll have a chance this weekend.

Now....about that chicken enchilada recipe you mentioned upthread..???? (must make do with smilie faces, there is no begging icon.)

[Jaymes]

Now....about that chicken enchilada recipe you mentioned upthread..???? (must make do with smilie faces, there is no begging icon.)

I'll PM the chicken enchilada recipe to you, and to anyone else that wants it.

For some, um, reason, I've decided against posting any more of my Mexican recipes. I have enough stress in my life right now.

[Jake]

Now....about that chicken enchilada recipe you mentioned upthread..????     (must make do with smilie faces, there is no begging icon.)

I'll PM the chicken enchilada recipe to you, and to anyone else that wants it.

For some, um, reason, I've decided against posting any more of my Mexican recipes. I have enough stress in my life right now.

Thanks, Jaymes.

I'm sorry for any added stress in your life, that is NOT what you need at this time. Your posts on Mexican food, way of life, and your recipes are what made me want to cook Mexican. Prior to that first recipe, it was never something I attempted, although I dabble in many other cuisines.

I think I can safely speak for a lot of people when I say "Please keep posting and answering all our Mexican food questions! Your help is invaluable and the recipes are great!"

Your salsa recipes have become staples in my kitchen and my SO thanks you.

[Jaymes]

Now....about that chicken enchilada recipe you mentioned upthread..????     (must make do with smilie faces, there is no begging icon.)

I'll PM the chicken enchilada recipe to you, and to anyone else that wants it.

For some, um, reason, I've decided against posting any more of my Mexican recipes. I have enough stress in my life right now.

Thanks, Jaymes.

I'm sorry for any added stress in your life, that is NOT what you need at this time. Your posts on Mexican food, way of life, and your recipes are what made me want to cook Mexican. Prior to that first recipe, it was never something I attempted, although I dabble in many other cuisines.

I think I can safely speak for a lot of people when I say "Please keep posting and answering all our Mexican food questions! Your help is invaluable and the recipes are great!"

Your salsa recipes have become staples in my kitchen and my SO thanks you.

Thanks. Sniff. Your enchilada recipe is already on its way.

[fifi]

From Jaymes...

Just made some a few days ago. To 2 lbs cubed pork shoulder added 2 chopped onions, 4 cloves garlic (smashed and minced), a couple of chopped jalapenos, nice dusting of New Mexico red chile powder, couple teaspoons each of cumin and Mexican oregano. Tossed it all together and let it sit overnight in the fridge. Next day put cubes into large dutch oven and added about 1/4 cup lime juice, 1/2 cup orange juice and 1 cup of tequila. Then enough chicken broth to cover cubes. I added no salt other than what was in the chicken broth. Let that simmer stovetop, partically covered, till the liquid was gone. Then dumped them into a lasagna pan and spread them out into one layer and roasted them at 450 for about 10-20 minutes.

OK... I am doing about the same thing. I have about five pounds in a big Le Creuset pot simmering on the top of the stove. I added lime juice, orange juice and tequila in about the same proportions, then chicken broth just to cover. I seem to have an awful lot of liquid. How long should this take to cook off?

[andiesenji]

I have managed to resist posting on this topic up to now. Carnitas is one of my favorites. While I can buy the cooked meat at one of the local Mexican markets, I like to make my own, particularly when I have a chunk of pork in the freezer that needs to be used. I haven't tried boiling it in lard but I have cooked it in broth in the oven, then cut it into chunks, put it back into the oven with seasonings and allowed it to brown. Not bad..

At present I am thawing a leg of boar, (I have friends that hunt and in exchange for helping them prepare the wild game I get part of it) that has been in the freezer since November and it is time to cook it.

I am going to try something different, wrapping it in double layers of foil, sealing it well, then oven roasting it for a long time at low temperature. The boar meat is much leaner than domestic pork and fat has to be added.

My neighbors have a ranch in Durango, Mexico and when they come back after a trip to the ranch they sometimes bring back javelina and cook the meat for carnitas. They cook it in lard and it is delicious. Mr. Obregon cooks it outside in a big cast iron cauldron and the aroma that spreads around the neighborhood is fantastic.

[mark918]

Now....about that chicken enchilada recipe you mentioned upthread..????     (must make do with smilie faces, there is no begging icon.)

I'll PM the chicken enchilada recipe to you, and to anyone else that wants it.

For some, um, reason, I've decided against posting any more of my Mexican recipes. I have enough stress in my life right now.

Thanks, Jaymes.

I'm sorry for any added stress in your life, that is NOT what you need at this time. Your posts on Mexican food, way of life, and your recipes are what made me want to cook Mexican. Prior to that first recipe, it was never something I attempted, although I dabble in many other cuisines.

I think I can safely speak for a lot of people when I say "Please keep posting and answering all our Mexican food questions! Your help is invaluable and the recipes are great!"

Your salsa recipes have become staples in my kitchen and my SO thanks you.

I have to agree with this completely. I started making my own salsa rather than use jarred salsa based on what I learned from reading your posts. Please continue to share with us as often as you like. I know I appreciate it (and I'd also appreciate your chicken enchilada recipe).