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Posted

Oakapple, my poorly placed parenthetical may not have made clear that I think the weak link on my list is the Bar Room, not Room4Dessert. I think Room4Dessert is firmly NP, whereas the Bar Room has NP food but not an NP vibe. For me the center of gravity of NP is the food, but there's a social element as well.

Nathan, I don't necessarily think fine dining is collapsing. It's becoming more casual -- the jacket-and-tie requirement is all but gone -- but there are still plenty of very luxurious restaurants out there and more always opening. The NP places, however, are cutting out all the familiar elements of fine dining except the food (and, to some extent, the service knowledge).

To paint a picture that I know is imperfect, the way I see it is that there have long been fine-dining and non-fine-dining restaurants, and that the division for a long time was similar to the standard French division between haute cuisine and bistro/brasserie/rustic cooking. There have always been casual restaurants, but they've traditionally offered casual food: pizza, burgers, bistro food, casual Italian stuff, etc. The fine-dining restaurants had the monopoly on advanced, cutting-edge technique, artisanal ingredients, artistic composition, etc., in part because they had the only kitchen teams with any sort of training or experience in this area. Today, however, we have this surplus of chefs and cooks who have worked at the world's top restaurants, and who are familiar with the haute-cuisine idiom. At the same time, we have younger customers being better educated about food, and wanting that kind of food even on casual nights out. And we have better availability of ingredients than ever before. So those trends combine to support NP restaurants, which is why I think we're seeing a cluster of them now with more, apparently, in the works.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I think some of this comes from the Pacific Rim, especially via Vancouver, which really spearheaded the haute-tapas trend in North America. And in France and Spain there have been haute-casual trends as well, due to many of the same factors as here.

I think it will spread, perhaps not immediately to Providence but have a look at the Element topic, about Richard Blais's new place in Atlanta.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

Posted
oh come on!  if you're eating through the menu at Ssam Bar you're willing to experiment with offal, kimchee, fish sauce, crawfish with Sichuan peppers etc....

that's "relatively adventurous".

"Adventurous" isn't exactly the right word for the Ssam Bar menu. True, Chang uses ingredients in combinations not normally seen together. In its day, so did Vong, and many other Asian Fusion places, and that trend is clearly no longer novel.

Offal is the one adventurous thing at Ssam Bar, because offal has never gone mainstream. There are still a lot of people who cringe at the idea of a veal head terrine. But like most restaurants that serve offal (e.g., Babbo), Ssam Bar does not depend on its patrons being willing to stick their necks out that far.

There's nothing really adventurous about the other things you mentioned. Aside from the steak-and-potatoes set, is there anyone out there who'd say: "Wow, Sichuan peppers! This guy Chang is really far out."

There have always been casual restaurants, but they've traditionally offered casual food.... Today, however, we have this surplus of chefs and cooks who have worked at the world's top restaurants, and who are familiar with the haute-cuisine idiom. At the same time, we have younger customers being better educated about food, and wanting that kind of food even on casual nights out.

The haute/casual dichotomy has been blurring for a very long time. There are plenty of NYC restaurants with serious chefs in a casual atmosphere. Tasting Room is a perfect example. There's probably another half-dozen of them on the Lower East Side alone.

Yet another example would be Landmarc: a serious chef in a casual setting with a ground-breaking wine program. Or Hearth, also in the East Village. Foodies were raving about dining at the pass at Hearth, long before Momofuku Ssam Bar was a glimmer in David Chang's eye.

Momofuku Ssam Bar seems to me unique, because Chang has almost totally stripped away every amenity other than the food. I can't think of another restaurant where the chasm is so wide between the quality of the food and the quality of every other amenity.

To take the other purported examples in turn: At Degustation, like Ssam Bar, patrons sit around a bar. But in every other respect, Degustation has the feel of a real restaurant. The seating is more comfortable; they take reservations; the service is more polished; the wine list is more serious; it's not really all that cheap.

Room 4 Dessert, of course, is a dessert bar, which means you've probably already had dinner somewhere else. It's not at all cheap, given that it's dessert. They accept reservations and have a far more serious beverage program than MSB. If there's a trend, it's that pastry chefs are becoming celebrities in their own right, and opening stand-alone restaurants. R4D, P*ONG, and the forthcoming Tailor are examples.

I've said it before, but Bar Room and Bouley Upstairs are casual "front rooms" attached to to traditional formal restaurants. There are plenty of NYC restaurants that have this, including Aquavit, Gramercy Tavern, Le Cirque, Gordon Ramsay, and Jean Georges. And that's not counting places like Babbo, where you can walk in casually any night, belly up to the bar, and have the full menu.

In other cases, serious chefs have opened casual outposts some distance away from their "mother ship." For instance, Kurt Gutenbrunner, has the formal restaurant Wallse, in the West Village, and the casual sister restaurant, Blaue Gans, in TriBeCa. In some cases, almost the identical dish is offered at both restaurants, but far cheaper at the latter. Another such example is Michael Psilakis, who operates the formal Anthos in East Midtown, and casual Kefi on the Upper West Side.

So: If the paradigm is serious cuisine in casual settings, there's a long list of restaurants doing it, and it's hardly new. The 2 or 3 people who actually believe in the New Paradigm insist that their hand-picked examples are truly ground-breaking, and there's nothing else like them. Actually, it's been going on a long time.

Posted

So I ran into a friend of mine and a friend of his at Bump yesterday at happy hour, and that eventually turned into a nachos plate with my roomie, who joined us midway through.

And what does that have to do with this? Well, on the same menu with the nachos are Kobe beef sliders, mussels in garlic broth (served tall-food style), a risotto dish (with something else in it that escapes me right now), herbed chicken, crab cakes, filet mignon, and a bunch of other, similar dishes, all of which are prepared in a creative fashion and appealingly plated, none of which are separated out as appetizers or mains and none of which cost more than $24, except probably for the sashimi sampler of the day ("ask server"). Most of the items on the menu are $15 or less, and there's a good selection of items under $10. (The nacho platter is big enough for two and costs $8. The only disappointment is that it hadn't been heated long enough: the shredded Cheddar and Monterey Jack buried in the middle of the pile of tortilla chips and jalapeno peppers remained unmelted.)

After reading through this thread, it struck me that Bump -- which appears in my second foodblog -- fits this description pretty well. It doesn't market itself primarily as a restaurant, but it's clear both from the space and the menu that it does take its food service seriously, and the tables are often as full as the bar at Friday happy hour (if you want to sit at a table, you have to eat something). Certainly the decor and the clientele scream "casual chic." And I'd say that even though I doubt Craig LaBan would ever review it, it certainly aspires to the same level as the restaurants being talked about here.

Sandy Smith, Exile on Oxford Circle, Philadelphia

"95% of success in life is showing up." --Woody Allen

My foodblogs: 1 | 2 | 3

Posted
Oakapple, my poorly placed parenthetical may not have made clear that I think the weak link on my list is the Bar Room, not Room4Dessert. I think Room4Dessert is firmly NP, whereas the Bar Room has NP food but not an NP vibe. For me the center of gravity of NP is the food, but there's a social element as well.

Nathan, I don't necessarily think fine dining is collapsing. It's becoming more casual -- the jacket-and-tie requirement is all but gone -- but there are still plenty of very luxurious restaurants out there and more always opening. The NP places, however, are cutting out all the familiar elements of fine dining except the food (and, to some extent, the service knowledge).

To paint a picture that I know is imperfect, the way I see it is that there have long been fine-dining and non-fine-dining restaurants, and that the division for a long time was similar to the standard French division between haute cuisine and bistro/brasserie/rustic cooking. There have always been casual restaurants, but they've traditionally offered casual food: pizza, burgers, bistro food, casual Italian stuff, etc. The fine-dining restaurants had the monopoly on advanced, cutting-edge technique, artisanal ingredients, artistic composition, etc., in part because they had the only kitchen teams with any sort of training or experience in this area. Today, however, we have this surplus of chefs and cooks who have worked at the world's top restaurants, and who are familiar with the haute-cuisine idiom. At the same time, we have younger customers being better educated about food, and wanting that kind of food even on casual nights out. And we have better availability of ingredients than ever before. So those trends combine to support NP restaurants, which is why I think we're seeing a cluster of them now with more, apparently, in the works.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I think some of this comes from the Pacific Rim, especially via Vancouver, which really spearheaded the haute-tapas trend in North America. And in France and Spain there have been haute-casual trends as well, due to many of the same factors as here.

I think it will spread, perhaps not immediately to Providence but have a look at the Element topic, about Richard Blais's new place in Atlanta.

All over the world now there are many places like this, but this really isn't a new phenomenon even if places like Momofuku have instilled their own styles into the picture. What you describe in your post began in Paris in the early 1990's as top flight chefs left top flight restaurants to open more casual places serving top flight food at affordable prices often in outlying neighborhoods. These were more than simple bistros or brasseries yet not quite haute cuisine temples. One example in my experience is L'Epi Dupin, but there are countless others. L'Atelier de Joel Robuchon was a late arrival on this scene. It conforms to the paradigm, now or not, other than the cost, which is not exactly inexpensive. This movement has certainly changed Paris dining.

John Sconzo, M.D. aka "docsconz"

"Remember that a very good sardine is always preferable to a not that good lobster."

- Ferran Adria on eGullet 12/16/2004.

Docsconz - Musings on Food and Life

Slow Food Saratoga Region - Co-Founder

Twitter - @docsconz

Posted
All over the world now there are many places like this, but this really isn't a new phenomenon even if places like Momofuku have instilled their own styles into the picture. What you describe in your post began in Paris in the early 1990's as top flight chefs left top flight restaurants to open more casual places serving top flight food at affordable prices often in outlying neighborhoods. These were more than simple bistros or brasseries yet not quite haute cuisine temples. One example in my experience is L'Epi Dupin, but there are countless others. L'Atelier de Joel Robuchon was a late arrival on this scene. It conforms to the paradigm, now or not, other than the cost, which is not exactly inexpensive. This movement  has certainly changed Paris dining.

Exactly, Doc...in Paris, instead of being called the NP restaurants, these were called Baby Bistros.

Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

Posted

What I'm hearing simultaneously is that the new paradigm doesn't exist and has existed for a long time. I can't really comprehend the first claim. It should be self-evident to anyone who eats at the five places I've listed that we're dealing with an identifiable phenomenon. It's not just Frank Bruni and me. Oakapple is the only person I've seen who's adamantly opposed to believing there's anything going on, and with respect I think he's just tone-deaf to the phenomenon for some reason.

As for the newness of the paradigm, sure, there are influences, there's history, there are places we can look at as models. But nobody who eats at a couple of the baby bistros and then goes to Momo-Ssam and Upstairs is going to confuse the styles. Of course, when you have multiple restaurants from different owners they're not all going to meet the exact same set of criteria, but if you have seven criteria and a significant number of successful new places meeting five then you have a trend.

I suppose one might equate the Bar Room to one of the baby bistros, and Room4Dessert to Espai Sucre -- yes, those influences are also clear -- but those are the second ring of the dartboard. The original tasting room was a precursor as well, definitely, but it never gained traction as its original concept and instead became a regular restaurant.

There's a reason why visiting chefs from all over are flocking to Momo-Ssam and Upstairs, why they're so heavily buzzed -- and it's not because of the Johnny-come-lately recognition of the Beard foundation. It's because they're the places so many people are looking to as the future of dining for a new generation.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

Posted (edited)
What I'm hearing simultaneously is that the new paradigm doesn't exist and has existed for a long time. I can't really comprehend the first claim. It should be self-evident to anyone who eats at the five places I've listed that we're dealing with an identifiable phenomenon. It's not just Frank Bruni and me.

Actually, I'm in the second camp (it has existed for a long time), not the first. But if it has existed for a long time, then it's not a "new" paradigm. If the name of the phenomenon were changed to Old Paradigm, then I'd have no argument with the concept.
Oakapple is the only person I've seen who's adamantly opposed to believing there's anything going on, and with respect I think he's just tone-deaf to the phenomenon for some reason.
I'd put it a different way. I've counted only about 3 forum contributors who buy into FG's concept hook, line and sinker. The number expressing some degree of reservation with it is far larger.
There's a reason why visiting chefs from all over are flocking to Momo-Ssam and Upstairs.....
At any given point in history, visiting chefs have flocked to whatever handful of restaurants happened to have the buzz at that particular time. Edited by oakapple (log)
Posted
Can anyone add any other examples besides Momofuku Ssam bar in NYC that would fit the definition9s) given above? Is this a trend or an idiosyncratic single restaurant?

I think Cafe Madeline in Ithaca fits the bill. It was an upscale French bistro but by local standards on the stuffy side. A new owner/partner came in who is of Asian descent. He added Asian influences to most of the menu items as well as adding some new ones, kept the stellar baking/pastry opertation (which sells items to go from a bake case in the rear of the restaurant).

It's got a casual atmosphere yet still refined, adventurous food that is still accessible and prices - assuming you don't pump it up with lots of liquor and wine - are affordable in relative terms (by the standards of the area).

It's the kind of place where college kids can come in on a date towards the end of dinner service and just get coffee and dessert or a few appetizers and drinks. I have seen them do this - they are not only welcomed there but they seem to appreciate the vibe - which is more adult than the other places they'd be welcome and you can bet they'll be back in there for dinner when they can afford it. Smart business.

Posted

Owen, I haven't been able to find a menu for Madeline's online in order to perform a serious analysis, but I have heard tell of the place and I think it's indicative of a type of restaurant -- but not a new-paradigm restaurant. I'd call it a contemporary bistro, or something along those lines.

The thing about the new paradigm restaurants is that they're serving food that's absolutely cutting edge and, in many ways, on par with what's being served at the top fine-dining restaurants in terms of quality of ingredients, sophistication of concept and technical skill. I mean, to take a Momofuku dish that has been mentioned many times -- Santa Barbara uni with whipped tofu and black tapioca -- when you look at that dish, taste it, think about its ingredients and the techniques involved, you're looking at something that could easily be served at a restaurant at the Jean-Georges/Per-Se level.

Fusion of the Asian/French/New-American variety was cutting edge at one point as well, but I don't think the casual restaurants that tried it were ever putting out food at the quality-and-sophistication level of, say, Lespinasse under Gray Kunz. Casual restaurants that did "lite" versions of haute cuisine have been plentiful for a long time -- they were truffle oil to the top restaurants' truffles -- but now it's more a situation of real truffles of different sizes. If you go through the menus of the new paradigm places I've listed, you see dish after dish that represents the best cooking of American chefs today. No allowances for price or anything else -- that the Bar Room at the Modern got more stars than the formal dining room to which it's attached, combined with the many statements from knowledgeable diners saying they like the Bar Room food better, is an important marker for this trend. Because this isn't a situation where people with average tastes are saying, "I like hamburgers better than that fancy French stuff." This is apples to apples.

I think this is one trend that Frank Bruni has nailed pretty consistently in his reviews. He gets Momofuku, Bar Room, Upstairs and Degustation. He hasn't reviewed Room 4 Dessert, but most every dish on the Room 4 Dessert menu is state-of-the-art by the standards of the top contemporary pastry chefs. I agree with Oakapple that Bruni goes too far -- and exhibits a lack of imagination -- when he frames the trend as being in opposition to fine dining. There are actually plenty of consumers for whom the trend is complementary: they'll go to Jean Georges for a special occasion, but they also want to be able to get that quality of food for $17, without a reservation, without the time commitment, in a convivial bar-like atmosphere.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

Posted
Owen, I haven't been able to find a menu for Madeline's online in order to perform a serious analysis, but I have heard tell of the place and I think it's indicative of a type of restaurant -- but not a new-paradigm restaurant. I'd call it a contemporary bistro, or something along those lines.

I think there are two "new paradigms". One that's extant in major food cities such as NY and a different one that's applicable to smaller markets that are years if not decades behind major food cities in terms of trends - and will never compete with them in terms of haute cuisine of the new or old paradigm.

There has been an emergence during the past 5 - 10 years, in many small to mid-sized cities, of upscale contemporary restaurants that are unstuffy, have a relaxed and casual vibe and employ some of the same ingredients that were or still are being used at the more traditional places in these cities. But the menus are more inventive (even if they exhbit influences that came and went in places like NY many years ago).

I suggest that it's a bit too narrow of a focus to imply that such a trend exists in NY but doesn't have parallel developments or corresponding changes in dining culture in opther less discussed markets.

Posted

what's different about the NP places is that they're more than just creative or ambitious bistros or casual restaurants.

David Chang is capable of producing four-star food. some of his dishes are.

Bouley is obvious (and there are dishes on the BU menu that are every bit as ambitious and accomplished as across the street).

Goldfarb is a four-star level pastry chef.

that's what stands out about these places. they're executing food, in some respects, at the four-star level.

that's simply not the case with many an ambitious informal restaurant or bar. different animal altogether.

Posted

I think the rise of restaurants like Madeline's in markets like Ithaca is one of the biggest food stories of the recent past. Indeed, I've tried unsuccessfully to sell that story to a number of magazines! But, I think it's a different story than the one we're talking about here. The story of Momofuku and the other "new paradigm" places is also likely to have its effects in secondary and tertiary markets (again there's no question that people like Richard Blais in Atlanta are watching the trend), but I don't think it's happening quite yet.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

Posted

This may be relatively new to NY, but it is still not new as that is exactly why Camdeborde and other chefs of that ilk in the new bistro movement were doing. The NYC restaurants may be incorporating more of an Asian influence, but that is debatable as well. The Parisian restaurant L'Astrance started out much the same way, but took a reverse course and wound up as a Michelin 3* today. That it is a trend is not my debate. That it is new and started in NYC is what I am questioning. Outside of NYC in the US, the best fit of the paradigm that I am aware of is Schwa in Chicago. One difference is that one needs a reservation there and they are quite hard to come by.

John Sconzo, M.D. aka "docsconz"

"Remember that a very good sardine is always preferable to a not that good lobster."

- Ferran Adria on eGullet 12/16/2004.

Docsconz - Musings on Food and Life

Slow Food Saratoga Region - Co-Founder

Twitter - @docsconz

Posted

Yes, the baby bistros offer an haute cuisine type of experience. But the baby bistros are traditional restaurants. You order a starter, main and dessert. You make reservations. They have traditional service. There's no new paradigm experience, just a higher level of food than was previously available in bistros. There's no baby bistro comparable in style to Momofuku or even Upstairs. The Bar Room at the Modern is the only new paradigm place that has something approaching a baby bistro feel, and it's at a secondary ring of the dartboard. If there's an influence, it's more Atelier than baby bistro, however Atelier itself is inspired by Asian and New World dining styles.

So sure, you can find influences in Paris, Barcelona, London (gastropubs), Tokyo and Vancouver. The new paradigm places in New York didn't spring up out of nowhere. But the current situation in New York is not anything near a duplication of the baby bistros, the Vancouver haute-tapas trend or any of those other influences. You don't go to Momofuku and say, hey, this place is just like . . .

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

Posted
David Chang is capable of producing four-star food.  some of his dishes are.
Even assuming that to be true, it's not the same thing as saying that David Chang is a four-star chef. There are currently five 4* restaurants in NYC. But the list of chefs, some of whose dishes are 4* quality would be much higher. To be a 4* chef, it does not suffice that you hit the top level some of the time. You have to hit it very nearly all of the time.
Bouley is obvious (and there are dishes on the BU menu that are every bit as ambitious and accomplished as across the street).
This, too, is probably an exaggeration. And even if there are one or two dishes on the Bouley Upstairs menu that would be at home in a 4* restaurant, most of them would not be.
Goldfarb is a four-star level pastry chef.
Until he gets four stars, he isn't.
that's what stands out about these places.  they're executing food, in some respects, at the four-star level.

that's simply not the case with many an ambitious informal restaurant or bar.  different animal altogether.

You're wildly exaggerating the quality of the food at these places. Yes, they are very good, and we should be very happy they exist. But to suggest you're going to walk into Degustation and have a four-star meal is just not reality.
Posted

The point isn't that all the food at these places is four-star food. Four-star food coexists with casual, rustic dishes like free-form pork sausages and hamburgers. These aren't haute-cuisine restaurants but, rather, postmodern restaurants that shatter the traditional boundary between high and low cuisines. You can put together a meal at Momofuku that's composed of some dishes that would feel at home at Jean Georges and others that would feel at home on 32nd Street. Needless to say, nobody is saying literally that these restaurants have four-star ratings from the New York Times's restaurant critic of the moment.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

Posted

I do realize that no one is suggesting that these restaurants have four-star ratings from the NYT's restaurant critic of this, or any, moment.

My point is that people are fairly glib about tossing around comments like "X is capable of producing four-star food." "Y is a four-star pastry chef." "Z is every bit as ambitious as Jean Georges." Over on the NY forum, Rich makes those same comments about the chefs at Tasting Room and The Grocery.

Obviously, there is always room for debate about the stars, but I think the blurring of boundaries between haute and casual started in, oh, around 1965 or so. David Chang didn't so much shatter the boundaries, as take just another itsy bitsy incremental step.

Posted

I agree with Oakapple.

This seems to be the result of a trend which is in and of itself just the evolutionary process.

It has been developing for quite some time and I believe it is the result of diners' habits changing combined with the industry evolving sometimes separately and sometimes in response to the consumer habits.

Years ago, the lines between formal and informal were more clearly delineated. Not just in terms of dining habits of consumers but also in terms of chefs. One cooked at one or the other type place. Today, a chef can be the creative force behind many different types of restaurants both formal and informal.

It is hard to imagine say, Pierre Franey behind Le Pavillon and involved in a burger joint simultaneously.

Today, it is hard to imagine a chef just working within the confines of one type of cuisine in one restaurant.

It is also hard to imagine a much more sophisticated market of diners also happy with fewer and less imaginative dining options.

If Danny Meyer can run high end sophisticated urban restaurants-- why not a hot dog stand?

Why shouldn't Daniel Boulud try to elevate the hamburger?

Unthinkable in the past!

Interestingly, much higher end places are changing as well--why not counters?

L'Atelier was done much earlier at Galileo (and I'm sure other places).

These chefs are elevating what was once more mundane and run of the mill cuisines.

One simply doesn't have to cook within the confines of rigorously defined rules. One doesn't have to dine within them either.

So I firmly believe that where we are now is not due to some recent phenomena but rather it is simply a result of a long slow evolution that makes perfect sense in historical context.

New paradigm is ok with me but is perhaps an oversimplification. I think there is a new paradigm (current--this point in time) and and old paradigm (pick any previous point in time) fine for making a comparative point but inadequate for really explaining what is happening today.

Posted (edited)

In this week's New York, Adam Platt awards two stars to Insieme. In his opening paragraph, he observes that "in this chaotically themed era, the template for fine dining has shattered into all sorts of different sets and subsets." It's the second time today someone has used the term "shattered" in this context. He goes on:

But if I had to choose the most influential restaurant in what passes today for haute cuisine, it would be Tom Colicchio’s Craft. The restaurant’s high-minded, almost priestly emphasis on gourmet artisanal producers and ingredients has been reproduced everywhere from steak palaces (BLT Steak) to pork bars (Momofuku Ssäm Bar). And many of the chefs who worked there and at Craft’s sister restaurant, Craft Bar, have gone on to open their own establishments and to spread Colicchio’s gospel of discerning, haute-barnyard dining throughout the land.

I don't necessarily prefer Platt's taxonomy to Fat Guy's. I'm more inclined to say, as Platt does, that there are "all sorts of different sets and subsets." But it's another one of the many valid ways of explaining the phenomenon.

I do like Platt's qualifier, "if I had to choose...." It reflects some humility about the nomination of Colicchio and Craft, perhaps an acknowledgment that it puts too much credit in one place. At least Craft has been around a while, and we can clearly see its influence.

Edited by oakapple (log)
Posted

There was an awful lot going on way before Craftbar.

Again, the quest to oversimplify things to boil it all down to one catch all phrase or label to identify one source is to be far less accurate.

I suspect we are heading for one of those six degrees of separation charts or maybe a family tree of influence.

If only we can trace Kevin Bacon's dining habits over the years--I just know we will find the answer!!!!

Posted

Platt's characterization of Momofuku, where I recently had two nearly all-seafood meals, as a "pork bar" is almost as puzzling as his earlier characterization of Momofuku as being about "offal products done up in an elegant, Asian-fusion style." I do think Craft spurred a trend, but I don't think Momofuku or the other new-paradigm restaurants are part of it and I don't think the trend had to do with ingredients. Rather, the trend has to do with the deconstructed menu and minimalist preparations. I'd look at places like the BLTs as Craft-derived. While it's true that David Chang did time at Craft, he also worked for Jean-Georges Vongerichten and Daniel Boulud, and in Tokyo, and his menu is very much his own, not to mention the only thing on the Momofuku menu that seems at all related to the Craft concept is the selection of country hams. Platt basically has had one idea in his career as a restaurant critic -- the "haute barnyard" concept -- and he tries to plug everything into it, like a phrenologist attempting to explain everything in the universe by the bumps on people's heads.

There's always going to be some subjectivity when deciding whether a given step is incremental or a paradigm shift. But to me the Momofuku-Upstairs-R4D axis represents the tipping point, whereas places like Tasting Room and Atelier represent what in scientific paradigm shifts would be called "significant anomalies." At some point, the significant anomalies become overwhelming enough that the old assumptions can't be maintained. So yes, Atelier serves at a counter, and Tasting Room tried to take an haute sensibility and place it in a casual context, etc., but Momofuku does it all.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

Posted

This makes sense to me.

Writers and critics often confuse things more than necessary in their quest to identify and cleverly "sum" up trends and situations with catch phrases etc.

Use of terms like "pork bar" and "haute barnyard" and even "new paradigm" often serve to cloud things.

Identifying a trend is not that difficult. Explaining it and tracing it back to the source is often very complex and difficult. a clever moniker or phrase can not do justice.

A good case made here for Momofuku perhaps embodying an important trend in restaurants.

Posted
This makes sense to me.

Writers and critics often confuse things more than necessary in their quest to identify and cleverly "sum" up trends and situations with catch phrases etc.

Use of terms like "pork bar" and "haute barnyard" and even "new paradigm" often serve to cloud things.

Identifying a trend is not that difficult. Explaining it and tracing it back to the source is often very complex and difficult. a clever moniker or phrase can not do justice.

A good case made here for Momofuku perhaps embodying an important trend in restaurants.

this is the point! but you have to call it something.

Posted
what's different about the NP places is that they're more than just creative or ambitious bistros or casual restaurants.

David Chang is capable of producing four-star food.  some of his dishes are.

Bouley is obvious (and there are dishes on the BU menu that are every bit as ambitious and accomplished as across the street).

Goldfarb is a four-star level pastry chef.

that's what stands out about these places.  they're executing food, in some respects, at the four-star level.

that's simply not the case with many an ambitious informal restaurant or bar.  different animal altogether.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up for me.

The place I described upthread is definitely the latter ("ambitious informal restaurant AND bar") and not the former (four-star chef letting his hair down).

I'm surprised Ferran Adria hasn't been mentioned in this context, for he certainly is working both the "formal" and "casual" side of the aisle with El Bulli over here and Fast Good over there. Then again, he's in Spain, not New York, and I'm sure nobody in Spain is writing about a "nuevo paradimo."

Sandy Smith, Exile on Oxford Circle, Philadelphia

"95% of success in life is showing up." --Woody Allen

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