"New Paradigm" Restaurants

[docsconz]

On this discussion of Momofuku Ssam Bar in NYC, the descriptor "new paradigm" restaurant has been used frequently in relation to that restaurant. Though I have dined there, unfortunately, I'm still not really sure what the term means, whether it is exclusive to that restaurant or there are others in NYC or elsewhere to which it applies. Please enlighten me and any other Society members who may share my ignorance and confusion.

[Fat Guy]

Doc, it goes back to this topic in the New York forum, about what I've called "haute-cheap" restaurants. I'm pretty sure it was in this post, 42 posts into the topic, that Nathan first used the "new paradigm" language, and it seems to have stuck -- I've had no traction on "haute-cheap" but you'll see "NP" now used as an abbreviation in posts. So, NP it is.

One of the better descriptions of NP comes from Frank Bruni's Momofuku-Ssam Bar (the poster child for NP) review. He speaks of Momo-Ssam as being "a nearly full-fledged restaurant in near-perfect sync with the times," and writes:

By bringing sophisticated, inventive cooking and a few high-end grace notes to a setting that discourages even the slightest sense of ceremony, Ssam Bar answers the desires of a generation of savvy, adventurous diners with little appetite for starchy rituals and stratospheric prices.

They want great food, but they want it to feel more accessible, less effete. They’ll gladly take some style along with it, but not if the tax is too punishing. And that’s what they get at Ssam Bar, sleek, softly lighted and decidedly unfussy.

[tim]

John,

It's all a part of the trend to add sophistication to our language, similar to the "ization" of every noun imaginable. Momofuku obviously has a restaurant consultant with an MBA.

It would be just as easy to say the restaurant adopts the new culinary standards or patterns. But that would be too easily understood.

Tim

[Fat Guy]

I'm proud (I think) to say that "new paradigm" is an idiopathic eG Forums buzzword, not something Mr. Chang came up with.

[Nathan]

Chang is certainly a savvy self-promoter, but the last thing Ssam Bar is is a restaurant consultant driven restaurant. it's actually a happy accident. you can trace its history on the relevant thread.

as for the NP, to amplify FG's excellent definition, here's mine:

"in my view the NP is composed of:

1. cross-cultural, chef-driven food combining high and low...often in the same dish.

2. casual surroundings, no formal trappings (although the food contains elements that were traditionally reserved to three and four star cuisine).

3. especially appeals to a youthful but knowledgeable demographic."

[docsconz]

Can anyone add any other examples besides Momofuku Ssam bar in NYC that would fit the definition9s) given above? Is this a trend or an idiosyncratic single restaurant?

[jesteinf]

I'm not sure I buy into this whole thing, but the closest examples I can come up with here in Chicago are Avec and Schwa.

Unless I completely misunderstand this whole thing, which is more than likely.

[Fat Guy]

Doc, in the 19 March 2007 issue of Crain's New York Business I wrote a story about the haute-cheap phenomenon. The way I described this "new generation of Manhattan restaurants," was:

These imaginative, eclectic joints—call them “haute cheap”—are trampling culinary and social boundaries.

Time was, haute cuisine meant priciness, with the attendant formality in food, surroundings and service. Now, patrons can enjoy four-star-quality food in relaxed, barlike surroundings. In many cases, the meals are prepared by young chefs who’ve cut their teeth at restaurants like Per Se, Jean Georges and Le Bernardin.

In the spirit of postmodernism, hamburgers and haute cuisine now co-exist effortlessly, the distinction between appetizers and entrées is disregarded and the only standard for including a dish on the menu is that it be delicious.

The restaurants I named and did mini-reviews of for that article were Momo-Ssam, Bouley Upstairs, Degustation, Room4Dessert and (though admittedly this one is marginal) the Bar Room at the Modern.

[Dryden]

Wouldn't the originator of the model (although it is still quite a bit more formal than Ssam Bar, but may be even more casual given a Parisian context) be L'Atelier in Paris?

[oakapple]

Can anyone add any other examples besides Momofuku Ssam bar in NYC that would fit the definition9s) given above? Is this a trend or an idiosyncratic single restaurant?

←

Three of the five restaurants FG named in his article—MSB, Degustation, and Bar Room—are indeed idiosyncratic, though I think the commonalities among them are over-stated. I'll not comment on R4D, since even FG himself agrees it is a marginal example.

I don't think there's anything idiosyncratic at all about Bouley Upstairs. It is simply the casual outpost attached to a more formal restaurant, a phenomenon of which there are numerous examples in New York. The only difference is that it's across the street, instead of being in the same physical building.

To the extent the paradigm exists, I find Nathan's definintion about 100 times more intelligent than Frank Bruni's. The problem with Bruni's definition is that he can't explain the phenomenon without insulting other types of restaurants, with which he is very clearly uncomfortable (starchy, effete, fussy—all pejorative terms).

My only quarrel with Nathan's definition is a fault also shared with Bruni's definition. Bruni said "savvy," Nathan said "knowledgeable." Whichever word you use, it implies you know something about the clientele's "knowledge," when in fact you really don't. All of the other criteria are ascertainable without having to be a mind-reader.

I would also assert—though he never came out and said it—that Frank Bruni believes "savvy" people would never waste their time on places like The Modern or (heaven forfend) Le Perigord. Savvy people have many different tastes. More likely, Bruni is just projecting his own mental state onto many other people whom he really knows nothing about.

[Nathan]

I'm more than willing to replace "knowledgeable" with "relatively adventurous"...

I think all of these places are somewhat foodie driven as well...

I think on the earlier thread on those topic L'Atelier was brought up as a partial progenitor.

I'd also suggest that Tailor will most likely be another example.

[Nathan]

at least Bruni isn't congenitally opposed against the trend (although I agree he has at least some aversion to formal dining).

contrast with the Randall Lane review of Ssam Bar where he basically said that the restaurant had no right to serve high end and expensive dishes along with its $8 dishes.

[oakapple]

I'm more than willing to replace "knowledgeable" with "relatively adventurous"...

←

This still suffers from the flaw that you're making generalized assumptions about people's reasons for going there. Statements about the chef, the menu, and the ambiance can be easily verified, tested, and debated. Statements about the mind-set of the patrons cannot.

I've no issue with "youthful," for while it may or may not be definitionally valid, anyone can walk into the restaurant and verify whether it is true.

[Nathan]

oh come on! if you're eating through the menu at Ssam Bar you're willing to experiment with offal, kimchee, fish sauce, crawfish with Sichuan peppers etc....

that's "relatively adventurous".

its not like Ssam Bar has the standard "safe" salmon and chicken entrees. (Bouley Upstairs at least has a burger.)

[docsconz]

I'm beginning to get a handle on what kinds of restaurants people may be referring to, but is this paradigm really new? While not quite the same as some of the places referred to, for its day it would have fit the definition, La Maison Japonaise in 1980's NYC fit that bill. It was casual, adventurous (Japanese-french Fusion was still a relatively new thing), not terribly expensive, "downtown" both in location and style and with aa younger, "hip" crowd into which I fit in those days. I guess I don't really think the paradigm is really new at all. The specifics of restaurant fare and style may change, but the concept remains the same - edgy, different, casual, fancy in its own way but still relatively inexpensive.

[Nathan]

well, I think there's certainly a critical mass of them now.

I wasn't around for La Maison Japonaise but did it have a similar mixture of high and low on the same menu?

[Fat Guy]

Doc, are you talking about La Maison Japonaise on East 39th Street? I wasn't there in the '80s -- didn't even know it dated back that far (assuming we're talking about the same place) -- but went in the '90s and didn't think it was particularly interesting. Then again, maybe by the standards of ten years before I went, it was interesting, which would I guess be your point. This is what Eric Asimov said in 1998:

Once the marriage of French and Asian cuisines was considered daring, but nowadays, when it is all too common, a restaurant like this seems staid. La Maison links but doesn't really combine French and Japanese cooking. And frankly, it adds little to the originals.

I haven't been able to find a menu online, but would be interested to see one from the 1980s if anybody's Googling skills are better than mine. I'm certainly willing to believe that there have been haute-casual restaurants here and there over time. It just seems that right now there's a significant confluence of new restaurants that are of a piece and reflect a new dining culture.

[JohnL]

I'm beginning to get a handle on what kinds of restaurants people may be referring to, but is this paradigm really new? While not quite the same as some of the places referred to, for its day it would have fit the definition, La Maison Japonaise in 1980's NYC fit that bill. It was casual, adventurous (Japanese-french Fusion was still a relatively new thing), not terribly expensive, "downtown" both in location and style and with aa younger, "hip" crowd into which I fit in those days. I guess I don't really think the paradigm is really new at all. The specifics of restaurant fare and style may change, but the concept remains the same - edgy, different, casual, fancy in its own way but still relatively inexpensive.

←

I agree with your thoughts Doc.

This is not a "paradigm" it is rather a new approach to an emerging market segment.

Dining habits and tastes are evolving. There are a lot of younger people with some disposable income. Their tastes are fairly sophisticated and they are relatively adventurous.

Years ago this crowd spent most of their leisure time in upper East Side bars drinking. Food was a quick burger or a meal at a hip pub or the Greek Diner. Gradually, some restaurant/bar/hip scene places emerged:

Bar Louie, Blue Parrot, Cafe Seyokan, Lola, Arizona 206, China Grill, Santa Fe, America, etc etc etc.

The food was often better and more adventurous, certainly more diverse and interesting. There was also a sense of hipness in the decor at many of these places.

The sophistication level was raised a notch or three.

I am not sure that the dining/drinking hipster scene today is not much more than the natural evolution of the food scene that this crowd gravitates to.

[Nathan]

[This is not a "paradigm" it is rather a new approach to an emerging market segment.

I am not sure that the dining/drinking hipster scene today is not much more than the natural evolution of the food scene that this crowd gravitates to.

←

Why do you conclude these are contradictory statements? All trends, paradigms, what-have-you come from somewhere...they don't arise ex-nihilo. They're all natural progressions from something.

Just because one can explicate how nouvelle cuisine came about and where it came from doesn't mean that it didn't exist as a defined movement.

[Chris Amirault]

This is not a "paradigm" it is rather a new approach to an emerging market segment.

Dining habits and tastes are evolving. There are a lot of younger people with some disposable income. Their tastes are fairly sophisticated and they are relatively adventurous.

←

These comments make me want, again, to ask jesteinf's implied query about where this paradigm is or is not happening. I went into a new place here in Providence last night that, without realizing it until I read this topic, I hoped would meet these criteria. However, it's clear that in Providence the foodie crowd wants the trappings, perhaps as much as they want the food itself.

Put differently, I think that it's hard to imagine "new paradigm" or "haute-cheap" making it here because there's not a sufficient diner demographic to keep the places running, whereas in NYC that demographic seems significant and growing.

[JohnL]

Ok it is a "new paradigm"

so what?

If one wants to apply a loose set of criteria then fine. I think that the whole "paradigm" issue is not quite as revelatory or certainly serendipitous as some seem to think. That's my opinion.

I actually think "haute cheap" does a better job. Maybe "cheap chic" maybe "hip haute"---it's all rock and roll to me!

Chris is on to something--what is a "paradigm" here in NYC maybe quite different in other places. I thought that Al Forno (at least an aspect of it) sort of fell into this area.

Maybe it once did and no longer...

I am not sure, I haven't been to Providence for some time. It is also worth considering that this is more about a certain market demographic than a restaurant trend--really, if the market isn't there the trend won't happen.

By the way the use of "paradigm" was part of the trend where a hip phrase or word is applied as a catch all. I think it is overused. The marketing gurus and media who jumped on this word have mostly moved on. (I am guilty of using it as well--I am going to try to avoid it in the future--it just ain't hip anymore)

Could be we are witnessing a paradigm shift though.

(sorry couldn't resist!)

Edited May 25, 2007 by JohnL (log)

[docsconz]

Doc, are you talking about La Maison Japonaise on East 39th Street? I wasn't there in the '80s -- didn't even know it dated back that far (assuming we're talking about the same place) -- but went in the '90s and didn't think it was particularly interesting. Then again, maybe by the standards of ten years before I went, it was interesting, which would I guess be your point. This is what Eric Asimov said in 1998:

Once the marriage of French and Asian cuisines was considered daring, but nowadays, when it is all too common, a restaurant like this seems staid. La Maison links but doesn't really combine French and Japanese cooking. And frankly, it adds little to the originals.

I haven't been able to find a menu online, but would be interested to see one from the 1980s if anybody's Googling skills are better than mine. I'm certainly willing to believe that there have been haute-casual restaurants here and there over time. It just seems that right now there's a significant confluence of new restaurants that are of a piece and reflect a new dining culture.

←

I'm not sure of the address, but I believe that it is the same restaurant. Ten years can make a big difference to the life of a cutting edge place, especially if the edge dulls. I haven't been back since the mid-80s, but at the time it seemed novel and adventurous indeed.

well, I think there's certainly a critical mass of them now.

I wasn't around for La Maison Japonaise but did it have a similar mixture of high and low on the same menu?

←

I don't recall the specific menu items. It was inexpensive enough for a medical student to afford an occasional outing, but the food quality was such that it felt special.

This is not a "paradigm" it is rather a new approach to an emerging market segment.

Dining habits and tastes are evolving. There are a lot of younger people with some disposable income. Their tastes are fairly sophisticated and they are relatively adventurous.

←

These comments make me want, again, to ask jesteinf's implied query about where this paradigm is or is not happening. I went into a new place here in Providence last night that, without realizing it until I read this topic, I hoped would meet these criteria. However, it's clear that in Providence the foodie crowd wants the trappings, perhaps as much as they want the food itself.

Put differently, I think that it's hard to imagine "new paradigm" or "haute-cheap" making it here because there's not a sufficient diner demographic to keep the places running, whereas in NYC that demographic seems significant and growing.

←

I don't know about Providence, but in Charlottesville, Virginia in the late 80's there was a restaurant called Eastern Standard that would more closely compare to the Bouley/Bouley Upstairs example than Momofuku. There were two restaurants in one building . Upstairs was the more formal and expensive Eastern Standard. Downstairs was a very hip, casual, relatively inexpensive and cutting edge version of the restaurant that was quite popular with the less affluent who still enjoyed good food. It was one of my very favorite restaurants in Charlottesville and i generally preferred the downstairs to the upstairs and not because of money. It was more relaxed and befitting of my lifestyle as a relatively impoverished Anesthesiology resident.

While certain components may change, I believe all that we are really dealing with is a new element of trendiness to attract a younger adventurous crowd that wants to stand out and be hip without spending an arm and a leg to do it. By definition, the paradigm has to be new and basically ever changing. The concept, however, is as old as the hills.

[Chris Amirault]

Chris is on to something--what is a "paradigm" here in NYC maybe quite different in other places. I thought that Al Forno (at least an aspect of it) sort of fell into this area.

Maybe it once did and no longer...

I am not sure, I haven't been to Providence for some time. It is also worth considering that this is more about a certain market demographic than a restaurant trend--really, if the market isn't there the trend won't happen.

←

Interesting you'd mention Al Forno: though always pretty informal in certain aspects, it's also always been at or near the top of the list in terms of menu prices: cheapo it is not. But that raises another new place.

Brian Kingsford -- EC at Al Forno for years and years -- just opened up Bacaro, and while I haven't eaten there yet, it does seem to be aiming more along the lines of "new paradigm," with a small plates list of cheeses, salumi, olives, and other antipasti. It's early yet (two weeks), but yesterday, when I poked my nose in there to see how things were going, I definitely got the vibe that this was the same crowd that fills the other high-end stand-bys in town.

As for trendy and hip (neither of which I'd claim to be), I think I was one of only two men in the downstairs bar at 7p that wasn't in coat and tie, and I definitely was the only one whose short sleeves revealed tattoos, much to the concern of several diners, for what that's worth.

[Nathan]

I don't have a problem with any of these points per se....(I don't really see what the point is behind them....like I said, of course it didn't come from nothing...and complex phenomena almost never have monocausal explanations)

but what stands out about the NP is that it has arisen commensurate with a general decline in interest in formal haute cuisine....at the same time that you have more highly trained chefs and more access to haute ingredients (at least in the U.S.) than ever before. given that, I think the NP was inevitable and will appear elsewhere as well.

its a democratization of high-end food (although much more than that...it's very much about the globalization of cuisine as well)..and I think that's a good thing. I'm all for being able to get foie, sea urchin and caviar on a whim without having to make a reservation or wear a tie. (fwiw, I have a suspicion that the NP appeared in Tokyo a while ago)

[JohnL]

Nathan

I would agree that interest in formal haute places may be declining but is it really declining that much in your opinion?

Or is this a case of alternatives on the rise with a seemingly rapid increase in interest in food and dining out?

What I consider more formal haute restaurants seem to be holding their own.

Per Se, Some of The BLT Empire, some of the Batali Bastianich empire, Wallse, JGV empire, Tribeca Grill, Chanterelle and on and on......