Tap Water, Still or Sparking

[JosephB]

According to a S.F. Chronicle article (mentioned on Serious Eats), there is a nascent trend in SF restaurants of replacing pricey bottled water with free filtered tap water. The bubbly stuff is homemade. Are any NY restaurateurs doing this? Does anyone make their own sparkling water at home?

Edited March 22, 2007 by JosephB (log)

[Sneakeater]

I know of at least two places that serve tap water that is filtered by reverse osmosis (whatever that means). But it's still, not sparkling.

FWIW, I have a strong, but completely unsupported, suspicion that New Yorkers order (plain old unfiltered) tap water over bottled far more than people in other major cities. I wonder if anyone knows if that's right.

[Nathan]

well, the quality of NY's tap water is only competed with by Vancouver's....imo.

but agreed that bottled water purchases are quite low here.

[Beebs]

Don't know what restaurants are doing, but when I am in NYC, I happily order tap water (I'll even drink it straight out of the tap!) as it's the best-tasting tap water I've had, barring Vancouver's. At home in Vancouver, I almost never buy or order bottled still water -- and drink it out of the tap, unfiltered.

[slkinsey]

I know of at least two places that serve tap water that is filtered by reverse osmosis (whatever that means).  But it's still, not sparkling.

This is too bad. Not only is reverse osmosis filtration entirely un-needed for New York City tap water (it's something you'd generally only need to use if you have reason to be afraid of things like mercury in the water, which is not a concern in NYC) but it's also very wasteful considering that each gallon of treated water produces between 2 and 8 gallons of waste water.

All that would really be needed in NYC is a ceramic sediment filter, which would remove anything down to 0.9 microns (this would filter out things like giardia, toxoplasma, cryptosporidium and entamoeba cysts as well as rust sediment from old pipes, etc.) and a big-ass activated charcoal filter to strip out water treatment chemicals like chlorine. This can be set up for very little money (I have this at home) and doesn't waste any water.

[Fat Guy]

Given how much money restaurants make on bottled water, it's probably hard for them to justify cutting into their own sales. I love the idea of restaurants improving their tap water, but I'm not hopeful about immediate widespread adoption of the practice.

[Sneakeater]

I know of at least two places that serve tap water that is filtered by reverse osmosis (whatever that means).  But it's still, not sparkling.

This is too bad. Not only is reverse osmosis filtration entirely un-needed for New York City tap water (it's something you'd generally only need to use if you have reason to be afraid of things like mercury in the water, which is not a concern in NYC) but it's also very wasteful considering that each gallon of treated water produces between 2 and 8 gallons of waste water.

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In the case, it's entirely unsurprising that one of them is The Waverley Inn.

Edited March 22, 2007 by Sneakeater (log)

[Fat Guy]

Not only is reverse osmosis filtration entirely un-needed for New York City tap water (it's something you'd generally only need to use if you have reason to be afraid of things like mercury in the water, which is not a concern in NYC) but it's also very wasteful considering that each gallon of treated water produces between 2 and 8 gallons of waste water.

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Sam, are you sure this isn't a figure for treated sea water? I think the reverse osmosis filters sold for light-duty purification of tap water essentially produce 1:1.

[Nathan]

Not only is reverse osmosis filtration entirely un-needed for New York City tap water (it's something you'd generally only need to use if you have reason to be afraid of things like mercury in the water, which is not a concern in NYC) but it's also very wasteful considering that each gallon of treated water produces between 2 and 8 gallons of waste water.

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Sam, are you sure this isn't a figure for treated sea water? I think the reverse osmosis filters sold for light-duty purification of tap water essentially produce 1:1.

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they do. my parents used to have one.

[slkinsey]

Not only is reverse osmosis filtration entirely un-needed for New York City tap water (it's something you'd generally only need to use if you have reason to be afraid of things like mercury in the water, which is not a concern in NYC) but it's also very wasteful considering that each gallon of treated water produces between 2 and 8 gallons of waste water.

Sam, are you sure this isn't a figure for treated sea water? I think the reverse osmosis filters sold for light-duty purification of tap water essentially produce 1:1.

Well, even a 1-to-1 ratio of treated water to waste water seems egregiously wasteful when it's not needed. It's true that low-volume home units can be more efficient than larger and undustrial units. It's also a fact that those units can hardly process enough water fast enough for commercial use in a restaurant. But, more to the point, it's simply not needed in New York City, and even a best-case scenario of 50% efficiency is horribly wasteful.

[Nathan]

no, no, they don't really produce any waste water at all. you put in one unit and you end up with about .97. I agree that they're pointless in NYC.

[slkinsey]

I don't think that's correct, Nathan. I'd like to see any manufacturer claims of the efficiency you're asserting (which would be something like 1 gallon of waste water per 33 gallons of treated water). For example, these guys say that their home system is "incredibly water efficient" because it "rejects only 1 gallon of water for every 1 gallon of drinking water that is produced." I've never seen any claims of waste water production better than 1:1 for reverse osmosis.

To be clear, reverse osmosis only works by producing waste water. There is no such thing as a reverse osmosis system that doesn't produce waste water.

To bring it back on topic, the reason I don't like the use of reverse osmosis when a restaurant is going to represent itself as using filtered municipal water instead of bottled water out of altruism and concern for the environment, is that I think it's inappropriate to use such a wasteful technology.

Edited March 22, 2007 by slkinsey (log)

[Nathan]

hmm...maybe I'm confusing it with the filter that my parents had later.

[Fat Guy]

The reverse osmosis system I've seen from Costco, which costs $239, is marketed as "zero waste," which is what I meant by 1:1 (one gallon in, one gallon out). Maybe it's some sort of phony thing, but that's what they say:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?...topnav=&browse=

[weinoo]

According to a S.F. Chronicle article (mentioned on Serious Eats), there is a nascent trend in SF restaurants of replacing pricey bottled water with free filtered tap water.  The bubbly stuff is homemade.  Are any NY restaurateurs doing this?  Does anyone make their own sparkling water at home?

←

When we dined at Chez Panisse in November, they just bring you glasses of tap water - I don't think there's even any bottled water on the menu...let's not forget the cost and damage caused by the actual manufacture and disposal of the bottle!

[Fat Guy]

If I'm reading various sources correctly, the way the "zero waste" systems accomplish their "100% efficiency" is by running the waste water into the hot water line. In other words, for drinking and cooking you're only using cold water. So the cold water gets treated by the filter, creating 1 gallon of waste water per 1 gallon of purified water. That 1 gallon of waste water gets cycled into the hot water system, and is used for things like washing dishes, where it doesn't matter that the water contains impurities. So, the claim of zero waste and 100% efficiency is not meant to say that the system produces no waste water internally, but rather that no water is sent out of the system and down the drain before being used.

[ludja]

According to a S.F. Chronicle article (mentioned on Serious Eats), there is a nascent trend in SF restaurants of replacing pricey bottled water with free filtered tap water.  The bubbly stuff is homemade.  Are any NY restaurateurs doing this?  Does anyone make their own sparkling water at home?

←

When we dined at Chez Panisse in November, they just bring you glasses of tap water - I don't think there's even any bottled water on the menu...let's not forget the cost and damage caused by the actual manufacture and disposal of the bottle!

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From the article JosephB linked to:

"Our whole goal of sustainability means using as little energy as we have to. Shipping bottles of water from Italy doesn't make sense," says Mike Kossa-Rienzi, general manager of Chez Panisse. Management hopes to complete the switch from Santa Lucia acqua con gaz to house-made sparkling water this week at both the restaurant and upstairs cafe. Chez Panisse stopped offering bottled still water last summer.

…

Their move away from bottled water reflects concerns not about the bottom line, but about the environmental costs of bottling and transporting water, the energy spent recycling the glass, and keeping plastic out of landfills.

At Chez Panisse, which typically goes through 24,000 bottles of Santa Lucia a year, the only hard part of the switch has been logistical -- carving out space for a carbonator in what's essentially an old house crammed to the gills with two busy restaurants, Kossa-Rienzi says.

…

The solution turned out to be simple: a $400 carbonator the size of a big toaster, which Kossa-Rienzi found online. It's basically a tank of carbon dioxide and a water line connection. The carbon dioxide is injected into the water, creating fizzy bubbles.

(The article mentions that Chez Panisse stopped serving still bottled water last summer.)

Interestingly, the article mentioned that the per capita consumption of bottle water in the US last year was 26 gallons!

[slkinsey]

If I'm reading various sources correctly, the way the "zero waste" systems accomplish their "100% efficiency" is by running the waste water into the hot water line.

Right. So it's not 100% efficiency. They're just using the waste water for something else. The chance that restaurants are doing this is, I have to think, infinitesimal.

One way restaurants might make their own "mineral water" would be to get ahold of an analysis for their filtered local tap water and then add measured amounts of various minerals to get the profile they want.