theabroma

If you head towards Vallarta, I can recommend a little joint that serves both ... and does them quite well: iguana in a caper/tomato sauce, and armadillo en mixiotes, w/adobo. They were both quite good. Theabroma

The ne plus ultra of cooking fats! The tradition I am part of removes fat from the chicken carcass, along with the skin - remember buying whole chickens instead of those parted out like the nuts and bolts selection in a hardward store?. If need be, the fat was hoarded in the fridge or freezer until critical mass was reached. It went into a deep cast iron frying pan, with a sliver of yellow onion, and that was either set on a low flame on the stove, or else put in a low oven. Several hours later, the fat had rendered into liquid gold, and the skin had cooked up into crunchy, crispy grebenes, which make the best kugel, and when salted and noshed, are heaven. Jewish chicharrones. We strained the slightly cooled, but still liquid fat into a jar, and into the refrigerator it went. And then it went into dumplings. Or to fry the onions and saute the chicken livers for gehakte leber. To sear a brisket for tzimmes or cholent. To fry onions and kasha for knishes or for kasha varnishkes. And as a schmear on a chunk of rye, pumpernickle, or black bread. The schmaltz canape reached its apogee, at least in my book, at a Roumanian restaurant in NYC called The Parkway: the amuse guele was a small dish of coarse salt, a fan of denseley divine black bread, a dish of shredded black radish, and a diner-style waffle syrup jar full of schmaltz. One anointed a lovely paving stone of the black bread with a generous plop of schmaltz, followed by a small haystack of the black radish, the whole topped by a sprinkling of the coarse salt. I weep thinking of it. Schmaltz IS the food of the gods. And yes you can buy it ... and you can also buy the nastiest of imitations: Nyafat. Feh! The fat cap from stock or soup will do in a pinch, but it is not quite the same as good old skillet hendered chicken fat with a scent of onion. It's easy to make ... the only trick these days is getting a good chicken with skin and fat to make it from. Thanks for the walk down memory lane. Now will someone please go to Kossar's and have a bialy fest and report back on that???? Theabroma

Can't tell from the photos what color the cheese is. Sadly American chzfood has made great inroads all over Mx. However, if it was indeed white and creamy it was likely either queso quesillo, or Oaxaca, or else queso Chihuahua or Menonita. There is also a queso asadero which is more common in the northern part of the country. It is also a white cheese which, as you see from its name, melts readily. Now, I can't help but ask - Why would you go to Mexico and eat pizza? I mean, I love good pizza, but it is so difficult to find real, quality regional Mexican foods here in the States - and I'm in Texas - that I can't imagine wasting gastric real estate on pizza in Mexico. But that's maybe just me. You missed the panuchos, molotes, garnachas, sopes, huaraches, memelas, real, true tacos, pintos, polkanes, gorditas, guajolotes, and tlacoyos. And those are just a few of the street appetizers. Go Directly to Jail! And no using the Get Out of Jail Free card! Regards, Theabroma

Seconding Shelora. Beans, esp black made with toasted, ground hojas de aguacate, mole nego of the region (oaxaqueno, poblano, de Xico, etc.), calabaza en tacha (slightly different than pumpkin - it is chilacayote, one tough squash. The hard shelled squash is pricked to the core in several places, and placed to soak in lime water. This will help soften the rind a bit and crisp up the flesh. Same principal as for watermelon rind pickles. A syrup is made from piloncillo and water, and the squash is slowly cooked in that until the whole thing is candied. Low and slow and submerged is what you want. Tamales, especially black bean tamales, with the pureed beans smeared on a slab of masa, and the whole rolled up jelly roll style, then pinched off in 3" pieces and put in hojas to steam. Pan de muerto, and any other thing - tequila, mezcal, aguardiente, cigars, etc that were especially beloved by the spirits for whom the altar is built. Also traditional is sopa seca de arroz - the red rice with carrots and peas to go with the mole. And chocolate, lots of chocolate. The altar is set with these goodies, and at midnight on the second when the sprits return to the inframundo, the banquet of the living begins. Theabroma PS: If you have pets and you set food out on the altar, watch out. We built a huge altar in Tlacochcalco and during the night, Maximilian the German shepherd had himself quite a feast. He was sick for a week and on bread and water for 6 months. T.

!Que maravilla! Theabroma

I use unsalted butter - Plugras or its ilk when feeling crazy - for sweet tamales. In Mexico, butter is sometimes used, but lard is the traditional fat as you know, even for sweet ones. Although the lard gives them a great mouthfeel, I just have never acquired a preferential taste for sweetened products enriched with lard. Butter does make a wonderful masa for a savory tamal, but there is just something missing. And that something for me appears to be rendered animal fat. So lard, duck fat, or schmaltz rule for savory tamales. There is one place, however, where I use either butter, or freshly made pork lard and that is for fish or seafood tamales - they can be overwhelmed by a fat with a whole lot of flavor. Regards, Theabroma

Herbsaint has been open about two weeks, and by reports is doing a very brisk business. Lilette reopened shortly thereafter and its business is steady as well. Amazing ... and so good to hear. Regards, Theabroma

Nick, this is great! It would really help orient me if you could let us know what the boundary streets are. I'll be back in about a month, and I'm taking this with me. Regards, Theabroma

Kent, it made an appearence in response to Fiesta. In Austin, you should basically shop at Fiesta at 38th and I-35 for Mexican procduce and exotics. This is not an advertisement, it is a fact. There are other stores in Austin where you can find exotic and ethnic things, but the Fiesta markets are the best resource. Regards, Theabroma

Las Sirenas has the BEST margaritas. Tart, potent, and not at all overpowering. The queso fundido is pretty great, also! I am, unfortunately, away from my recipe database and my books. I know that Ricardo Munoz Zurita's book Chiles Rellenos has a recipe for mecos stuffed with tuna. I would toast them, soak them, seed them, and stuff them with a shredded chicken or pork picadilllo. I would drizzle them with crema and top them with cebollas moradas encurtidas. Or else, stuff them with queso menonita or queso quesillo de Oaxaca, and a salsa verde or salsa de chipotle, or with a salsa de mole oaxaqueno. Best regards, Theabroma

Re: Gastro-Grad Programs Two others come to mind immediately: the Master's at the University of Bologna, and the program at the University of Gastronomic Sciences in the Piedmont, created by SlowFood. There is also, I believe, a program at the University of Barcelona, as well as a relatively new Masters/Doctorate program in Gastronomy in the Anthro Dep't of the Autonomous National University of Mexico (UNAM), In addition, I would contact Carole Counihan at Millersville University in Pennsylvania, and then perhaps peruse the Anthro and History Department offerings at schools like UC Berkeley. There are many programs, eg: anthro at Southern Methodist University here in Dallas, which has some very prominent faculty in the area of Mexico and the Mayans. Although they do not have a core curriculum around gastronomy of the region, they are most open to fostering a program of study combining gastronomy, anthropology, and Central America. And although the head of the department at NYU is a noted nutritionist, and the program is indeed heavy in the nutritional arena, that is hardly the bulk of their program. For an example, check the topics of recent PhD theses, and those currently in progress. The Adelaide program is headed by Barbara Santich, who is extremely well respected in the acadfemic arena. It is coupled with a culinary program which is affiliated with the Cordon Bleu. The Adelaide Master's is also availabe as an on-line course of study. In case you haven't figured this out yet, I'm threatening to take the plunge too. Regards, Theabroma

I promise I'll not let 'er rip like that again! I am soooo sorry. It just sorta gushed out (in case you couldn't tell by the fact that coherence wasn't it's strong suit!). To Shelora: I really, really am rather embarrassed! To Sandra: Good point on the unfamiliarity with things other than antojitos. HOwever, and I must apologize for letting my being in Texas act as blinkers. I expect my fellow Texans, at the very least, to be more knowledgeable about the cuisines of Mexico. People here rebel at the idea of paying upscale prices for fine Mexican food. Many of the upscale (I HATE that word, but I'm trying to be brief) Mx restaurant chefs 'upscale' things by adding foie gras to the menu, and using chiles, or corn as a tip of the hat to Mexico. High Mexican dining merits white damask without the foie gras to get it through the door. Thus my crack about what we would be paying for it if it were a Mexican, rather than a French, thing. To Rancho: I'm an American by birth; but a Texan by the grace of God. Texas is, BTW, Occupied Mexico!!!!! Silence, Theabroma

That was PRICELESS! Thank you Thank you. I laughed until I was sick. And then I got my purse and ran up to the store for a can of RoTel and a bar of Velveeta. All that calcium and Vitamin C! Bless you, girl. Theabroma

This is the reason that I haven't made that unusual mole recipe you sent me, that is taped to my kitchen cupboard. I'll find those chilcoztlis when I'm in Oaxaca this December. I prefer exploring the original recipe first, before substituting chilies. But now that I've said that and again reread your post, substituting ingredients happens a lot in "authentic" Mexican kitchens, no? Thickening types of moles for example. If stale bread isn't available, I've heard of some women using animal crackers. Are you saying that a recipe pre-conquest would be the most traditional? I'm not sure I understand this, Thea. Can you site an example of an 'ethnic' food that is of the financially or politically fortunate? Shelora ← Girl, this is going to be one messy post!!! Re: the concept of 'traditional' I think there was a thread where this was vigorously debated ... and I think it was a while back in the Mx forum. Before jumping headfirst into it, I'd like to ask for some agreement on how we define 'traditional.' Because by now, and certainly in South Texas, RoTel and Velveeta among the MexAm population in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas is traditional. Then, there is 'TexMex restaurant for gringos' notions of what Mexican food is all about' traditional - pain me though it does to say it, El Chico and El Fenix (from the '20's TxMx food chains here in Dallas) are traditional TxMx. Then there is traditional for the Colonial Period in Mexico ... I think mole poblano and chiles en nogada fit this definition. And then there is traditional among very rural populations who stay close to the area of their and their ancestors birthplace, and who struggle w/Spanish even more than I do, because they still all speak the local indigenous tongue. And then there is traditional according to the codices and to the writings of the various chronistas, and of course of Sahagun in the Florentine Codex, all of that somewhat supported and clarified by archaeological finds, radio carbon dating, and coprolite analysis. j And I think there are other layers of 'traditional' for which a solid argument for inclusion could be brought. So, pick your tradition! Thickening: If you have ever made a salsa with a dried chile that was toasted/roasted/fried, and then soaked and ground, you will have noticed that a day or two in the refrigerator that salsa will have thickened, and taken on a certain glossiness indicative of the gelling of starch molecules. If you make a simple mole de olla, or a coloradito, and cook the ground chile paste, you know that it thickens. If you toast, grind, and add the seeds of that chile to the mole and continue to cook it you know that it really thickens. The same happens with pumpkinseeds and, to some extent, peanuts. I think that this, along with thickening with little bolitas of masa, were techniques known widely pre-Conquest. I think that when sesame seeds, walnuts, and almonds showed up along with wheat flour, their use as thickeners in the European and Arab/Ottoman kiitchens segued in flawlessly with the prior knowledge of the thickening power of corn tortillas, masa, pepitas, and seeds. I also think that the rest of the incredients - everything from raisins to olives to capers, wheat breads, pork, etc found a home in the native kitchen, rather than supplanting it. Deserts, candied fruits, milk fudges, things like that were non indigenous items that took root in the New World, but I do think that the basics of the cusine and its techniques were developed and elaborated long before the Conquest. Otherwise, the foods and the techniques of the cultures represented by the Conquest, would likely have totally overwhelmed and nearly eradicated the traditional up to 1519. This is quickly stated, and my thoughts. Would love comment, input, argument, etc. Much, much more needs to be understood about this process in general and in particular. So. The mole amarillo is unlikely to be a post-Conquest invention. The simple blend of poached fowl, chiles, onion perhaps (xonacatl, native onion) and the pureed of hoja santa is perfectly in the native larder, and an elegant expression of it. A mole poblano, fully developed as we know it, it not tradtional prior to the conquest, but the essence of it is: the poached, shredded fowl, the chiles, pepitas, tomates/jitomates, tortilla, spices (Mx. oregano, xonacatl onions, etc, cacao). When you consider that moles are traditonal preparations, and they vary from region to region and chile combo to chile combo, it is not such a leap to see how a little tweaking in the kitchen could result in mole Poblano. In truth, it may have, in the form we know it, been developed in the Sta Rosa Convent in Puebla ... certainly that kitchen alone is capable of inspiring such glory ... but Sta. Rosa nuns did NOT INVENT mole. And mole poblano is not the only exquisite mole worth eating and rhapsodizing. My suggestion: pick your tradition. I say make the mole amarillo with chilcoztlis and make it with guajillos. Which do you like better and why? The former may be the most 'traditional' but the latter may be the tastier. I think a discussion of traditional is necessary for many reasons. And one of those reasons for me is to better know and understand how things might have been. Another is to help people realize that Mx food does not begin and end with beige vinyl rounds stuffed with chili and onions, and topped with Kraft singles. Beyond that, it becomes tyrannical, 'more traditional than thou' (ie: better, classier, hipper), and a block to any true understanding and appreciation. As for ethnic food that is financially or politically fortunate - I went back into my original post and edited it in an attempt to clarify what I meant. I did not articulate my thoughts at all well. Let me try again! Maybe any discussion of food needs to begin like a big-time commercial Contract for Purchase and Sale (I once worked with developers and commercial real estate attys). The first section which begins on page i and runs to page sin fin, is nothing more than a dictionary of what all those words in the contract are supposed to mean within the 'four corners' of only that contract. So, what is ethnic?: I need to be aware that when I mention ethnic cuisine, there is a whole big world out there looking at me and my mashed potatoes, and my chicken fried steak (I'm a Texan of Southern ancestry, dammit!), my meatloaf, my wedge o'iceberg w/1000 Island dressing, my cornbread in buttermilk, and my oreos and glass of milk, and nattering on about me and my ethnic food. It's not ethnic! It's what I eat!!!! Well, the shoe fits. So given that rant, I think it is fair to say that most of us would think of Turkish food, for example, as 'ethnic.' And we normally think of quaint things: doner kebab, eggplant stews, vegetable salads, vibrant with olive oil and lemon. If we're lucky enough to have visited Turkey, or had Turkish friends, or lived in an area blessed with some good Turkish restaurants, we may know Hunkar Begendi, or Imam Bayildi, etc. We would also probably either refer to or think of that as ethnic food. Now, think of coq au vin, or boeuf bourguignon, poulet normande, cassoulet. I think it is a stretch for us to think of those as ethnic. But aren't they? The Hunkar Begendi and Imam Bayildi are dishes from Ottoman Court cuisine ... and should, really be placed in with the court cuisines, and their imitations, rather in with the food from the laboring and agrarian tables. The French foods mentioned, while polished over time, are of humble origin, and not too far removed from those origins. I am suggesting - or trying to - that we would regard many of the dishes with pride of place in, say the Ottoman Court - or the Persian Court, or the Mughal Courts of India - as ethnic foods, that is wonderful, fun, but not worthy of serious consideration. They have no place in the world of our white tablecloth tradition. They are thought not to merit it. And yet those were the dishes fed to the royal courts of those countries ... not simple bowls of porridge, but grand confections requiring great training and a sophisticated palate to prepare and to enjoy. I think I should have shut up long ago!!! Let's try it this way: I am waiting for the day that I hear from out midst a discourse on ethnic food, which focuses on foods of France, or Italy. If foie gras had come from the Aztecs (Muscovy ducks are native to Mexico, but alas, the Aztecs were into hearts, not livers!), we'd be buying it for $US 0.89/pound. You may take you hip waders off now!! Theabroma

I've thought about this some more, and would like to add a couple of thoughts and observastions: First, I work with 'ethinic' foods out of great personal interest - something other than pot roast and mashed potatoes has always gotten me curious and excited. But the more I work, taste, travel, research, the more I realize that most of us have our notions of what constitutes food typical of a country and its cultures is formed by what we have access to here at home. Either our interpretation, or the traditional dish prepared by a native of the culture, but in a location where the usual ingredients are not available, and desire for the foods of home outstrips the willingness to wait until they can find the culturally appropriate, or 'real' ingredients to make it with. For example: bell peppers in place of chiles poblanos (yes, m'dear, they haven't been readily available all that long (and I say that living in Texas, and having lived on the border for 2 years); cream cheese or jack in place of queso menonita/chihuahua; flour tortillas in places where they are rarely used, even in Northern Mexico, because adequate corn tortillas were not available; yellow cheese, Kraft slices, and Velveeta (especially Velveeta w/Rotel tomatoes ... most Americans would not be able to locate chile con queso on a Mexican menu, and if they ordered queso fundido - which is the original - they would likely send it back because it wouldn't comport with their notion of chile con queso. I know this: I grew up on Velveeta and Rotel queso. And, what's more, I like it. I now know that it is a make do because the chiles and the cheeses used for the 'original' were not available until recently in this country. A lot of what we think of as 'ethnic' food is really the foods or cuisines of the financially and politically fortunate or elite of the country or culture in question, AND NOT THE FOODS OF THE MARKET STALLS, AND IN THE DAY LABORERS OR PEASANTS COOKPOTS (edited to try and clarify). That is the only form of cooking that contemplates such a thing as a chef, or specially trained person, to elaborate and promulgate it. It is, nine times out of ten, the only cuisine which is widely written about. And that is often true even today. The written records - ancient or contemporary, ethnographic piece or cookbook - is largely devoted to these dishes and not those of 'the people.' Since it is these records which provide the majority of us with our access to learning about a particular cuisine, it further skews our view of what is 'authentic' xyz cooking. And third, we are not a nation known for its excellence in training its citizens in the basics of nutrition ... the real thing, with the role of carbs, proteins, fats, vitimins, trace minerals, etc., plus intake, timing of meals, physical activitiy expenditures, etc. Add to that the fact that we have more or less honestly come by some powerfully skewed notions of what constitutes the foods of a particular culture or ethnic group, we are perhaps clogging on top of a souffle to pronounce that food 'too starchy', too fatty, etc.' Do not forget that fat in abundance came with the Conquest; it was not available in the New World prior to that point in time. The Asian diet, based on a starchy staple - why doesn't anyone ever slam the Chinese or Japanese as they slam the Mexicans for eating so much starch??? - with vegetables, some of which are also starchy, or high on the Glycemic Index, and animal protein in condiment portions, is usually looked to by dietitians and nutrition researchers as a salutary model diet. Yet it is starchy. It is those of us in the West, and principally here in the US, who are having a problem. I think that we need better information. I think that we really need to learn about the foods and cooking techniques that characterize ethnic cuisines. Before they were beset with MickeyD's, CocaCola, and the trans-fats and high fructose corn syrup flood of biblical proportions which they bring. theabroma

2. "Dzick" de Venado (who knows what dzick means), a little rich adobo, room temp. of venison to make little tacos. Yucatecan style, achiote marinade. Enjoyed by all... Basically, a salpicon de venado - w/onions, garlic, tomato, and shredded venison, with a dressing. Traditional Yucatecan. I think DK has a recipe; I know that Alicia Gironella de'Angeli does in two of her books (in Spanish). It's really lovely. Wasn't on the menu at Izote when we were there. Theabroma

Just got back from Mexico, and ate at Izote. It was a disappointment; the worst kind. The setting is very fresh and well done, in the bosom of the haute chichi Polanco. The menu promised much, and delivered good food, but well below expectations from the press, classes w/Quintana over the years, working with her books (including Mullis), and eating a Isidora's, another nueva cocina azteca spot for which she was the consultant. Interesting items, not at the top of the execution required, and not enitrely thought through. The quartet of tamalitos had a gorgeous, austere presentation, and mouth-engaging fillings. But. The proportion of cheese to masa was, for me and I think for a tamal, way off. When you steam Mx cheeses like quesillo for a long time they can become rubbery. I had a moment's panic that I had tied into some exotic form of Mexican albino Double Bubble. The foie gras in the pickled ancho, with caramelized onions was a well tuned symphony of flavors, but the textures got away from the dish, and the foie gras was constructed more like sweetbreads, rather than in one glossy, unctuous slab. A little like trim. And trim of good foie gras is fine, depending on how it is handled. I will have to dig into my notes to go on, but the rest of the meal teetered around the table in similar fashion to the above. Izote does, however, manage to prove the point that there is/can be such a thing as Mexican haute cuisine ... but it is still a work in progress. A more satisfying, and less expensive, meal was had a El Cardenal, an old warhorse in the Centro Historico. A taqueza of cuitlacoche with kernels the size of the Hope Diamond, lightly sauteed with rajas of poblana, cebolla de cambray, and a touch of garlic with a deck of hand made tortillas in a linen napkin. Escamoles like a pile of pearls atop the jade green velvet of avocado. Nothing forced, everything at the top of its game. A superb meal. Mulli is a beautiful book, with beautiful photographs and apparently good food information and recipes. Quintana has a lot to teach us and a lot to say ... I just wish Izote were more articulate. Theabroma

I got a real kick out of this one. My objection to Mexican food (second to the hotness) is that they serve not TWO starches but THREE at a time: beans, rice and tortillas. But perhaps they don't do this so much in Mexico? ← I believe that combinations of rice, beans, and tortillas constitute a complete protein. In a country where animal protein is not always affordable, or consumed in the proportions to other dietary items as here in the US, there must be other dietary sources of complete proteins, or terrible health consequences result. In fact, in most dietary regimens beans are considered a protein rather than a starch, and I believe you will find that a corn tortilla also contains protein and fiber, with little fat, and no processed sugars and starches. That leaves only the rice with the high Glycemic Index. There are several excellent nutrition books available that will lay all of this out in more technical ways for you. The plate of beans and tortillas, but not always rice, is typically rounded off with greens of some sort, and salsas. Chiles bring much to the plate other than heat: stimulation of gastric juices, flavor, aroma, and Vitamins A and C. It is, all in all, a very healthful diet. The problem comes in when you fry everything , and do it up with sour cream, flour tortillas, and yellow cheese. And yes, they do do this so much in Mexico. Theabroma

There is a title listed in the book awards at this site. Scroll down to the Middle East category It is apparently a culinary history of Lebanon, in French. I am not familiar with it, or with the author, but considering the company it is keeping - Patricia Quinana;s Antojiteria and the massive tome on El Bulli, it might bear inspection. Cookbook Fair Theabroma

You have covered cultivars developed in the US and Europe ... but what do we know about any similar cultivars developed throughout the Americas, Africa, or Asia. Maybe there are none, although that seems quite unlikely. It seems more likely that we turn more quickly to Europe for origins, and then lose curiosity and drop the search there. Are there any botanists, straight up, ethno, or archaeo out there who might comment on actual heirloom demographics? Theabroma

I understand that one of the scrubby nightshades - Solanum eleagnifolius (I think) - was used for cheesemaking. The berries, which look like tiny, leathery skinned chrome yellow tomatoes, are the part utilized. I'll have to recheck the sources on this before we give it a try ... this can be a nasty, but interesting, plant family. Theabroma

I believe that the traditional queso quesillo uses cuajo, or rennet. There is, however, a fascinating article on Thistle-flower cheese in an April/May issue of Gastronomica about 2-3 years ago. Written by a woman named Rosa Tovar. I have since been trying to identify any Mx cheeses that might utilize plant coagulants instead of animal ones. Tovar theorizes that the use of plant coagulants in cheesemaking in Spain was pioneered by Jews, since the introduction of cow's stomach into milk would be in violation of the meat/milk prohibitions of the dietary laws. And since the Conquest introduced not only the product and the technology for cheesemaking, and well as a substantial number of conversos into Mexico, it would not be surprising to find that there are some plant-coagulants in use ... somewhere. This is fascinating stuff. Theabroma

Thanks for the tip! Having looked it up, I think you meant: "A Taste of Thyme: Culinary Cultures of the Middle East" by Sami Zubeida and Richard Tapper. I'll have to check it out. ← You're absolutely right about the title. Was far away from my books and had to peel it out of a rather choppy memory patch!!! It is a very interesting book.

And Rancho Gordo left out the heirloom's heirloom: the ojo de venado. From Mexico. Perhaps after a ducha fria, it would be a lovely idea to peruse J.L. Hudson's seed catalog, and the catalog from the Seed Saver's Exchange. But, prior to that we all might want to check out the meaning of 'heirloom' as it applies to botany. OED is probably a good choice of dictionary. It always helps for us to be on the same page, definition-wise, don't you think??? In Comida y Conquista, edited by Janet Long Towell, are papers presented at a 1994 conference on gastronomy pre/during/ and post Conquest. There is one paper, I believe by Long herself, devoted to the tomato. I have long operated under the belief that 'heirloom' referred to those plants which were traditionally grown, the seeds of the most desirable examples being saved for the next season's planting. Obviously, as the seeds are carried across an ocean and put into the hands of people fluent in crop care, but ignorant of the item at hand, coupled with different soils, climates, etc, the plant will, over time, change. Some could not adjust. Others did, with the seeds of the at that time and place determined 'best' ones being saved for replanting. Over time and geography different attributes came to the fore. Now, as for most heirlooms being Old World (I'm striving mightily to be polite here) rather than New World ... I don't know that that claim can seriously be made. Several years ago there was in what I call the 'bellybutton' column of the Wall Street Journal a piece on the Peruvian Potato Seed Bank. Dig that up and read it. It will underscore the fact that the Peruvians, blessed to the bank and back with potato varieties to begin with, developed quite an array of what can only be described as heirloom varities. I think that the term 'heirloom' as applied to plants has no meaning ... until, that is, seed companies managed to hybridize plants to the point that you have to either buy the highly hybridized seeds or else propagate by by means of vegetative reproduction. The seeds from a supermarket tomato ... or whatever ... might germinate, might grow, might (as in my own experience) produce a tomato ... which drops too early, or fails to mature, or spontaneously aborts for myriad reasons. The term heirloom becomes handy, then, to describe and oppose viable seeds from those which have been hybridized into infertility. Tomatoes are native to Mexico and Central America. People grow them, save seeds, replant, and the cycle goes on. They don't worry about whether they have heirloom tomatoes. They worry about having tomatoes that are really, truly tomatoes. The rest is pr firm tempest in a teapot. Heirloom is anything not hybridized to death a/o sequenced and patented by ArcherDanielsMidland. So who has more heirlooms is irrelevant. Perserving the ones we have is. Theabroma

What a fascinating give and take! Thanks. There may be some items of interest - plus the bibliography- in Culinary Thymes, Sami Zubaida, et al., eds. My sense is that the closest thing one will find to "codification a la francaise" (lord, that sounds like some concoction of cod milt with laitue fatique and petits pois ... ick feh!) will be in records, histories, or receipt books on the court cuisines of the various countries. Theabroma