albiston

Fantastic blog Lucy. I was an avid reader of your first installment and will follow this one with the same anticipation . I'm curious about the butcher's paper under the duck breast (at least I think). Nice picture of a horse. Would I be right in assuming it is there because equine meat is on sale there? If yes, is it a commonly sold meat in France or is it a mainly regional specialty? Thanks.

I guess you're referring to stoccafisso when you say boccafisso, right? You could try using salted cod, and you'd probably end up with a very good dish anyway, but it's not the same thing. Stoccafisso, aka stockfisk in Norwegian, is dried UNSALTED cod, while baccalà/baccalau/klippfisk is the salted kind. There is a difference in taste, texture and notably price between the two. If using the salted kind I would de-salt it very carefully and adjust salt accordingly in the recipe.

Faustian bargain, thanks for bringing up a very interesting topic. This is a a thread I will be following with great interest, almost all my cookbooks on Italy are in Italian but I'm quite curious about those published in English. There are a few I have myself or have given a deeper look abetween those that have been brought up in the previous messages. Marcella Hazan's books, judging from the one I have and the few others I've leafed through, are always well made, with very good recipes and full of interesting information. My only (tiny) grudge with her books is that I, as Italian, notice where her strong and weak spots are, when it comes to different regional cooking. Southern Italian recipes in particular are not exactly worng, yet often neither how the locals would prepare them. The Culinaria series is great for general info, though I've had mixed results with their recipes, but I find the books leave more questions open than those that get answered. Perhaps that is exactly the scope of the books, stimulate your curiosity to know more, yet I cannot help and find that somewhat frustrating. Plus, in their Italy and book at least, there's a few pages on industrial products, biscuits from a very large Italian producer for example, which I personally find out of place. A book I found charming is Field's "In Nonna's Kitchen" full of interesting and charming stories of grandmothers' stories and recipes. A bit out of touch with modern Italy and at times slightly sterotyped, yet not to be missed to understand where Italian culinary traditions come from.

Please note: the discussion on cookbooks introducing to Italian cooking has been split to a new topic.

First of all let me excuse myself if I gave the impression of calling you a food snob. I was making a general remark, sadly based on experience, which was badly put. Having read your previous messages I never would have labeled you one . Regarding the rest of your message there's only one thing I can say: thank you for taking the time to clarify your thoughts and experiences. It was a real pleasure to read your post; smart and well written. You could have put a few of those thoughts in your previous post though .

Just to clarify, I didn't say anything about Italian food here. I was admiring Ivan's post and Ptipois was agreeing with my admiration for the poetry in that post. ← Don't worry I got that. And I should make clear that I am in no way denying the huge role of French cuisine .

I hope I can be excused if I steer the discussion slightly more onto Italian cuisine but it is hard to read certain comments and remain silent. Maybe not too strangely, as Italian, I see it exactly the opposite way. Plus I get the impression that dissing Italian cuisine is becoming the new sport for the slightly snobbish gourmet. In contrast to you, I firmly believe Italian cuisine is deeply underestimated, and scarcely known in its real essence. Yet, it is after all a matter of taste, and I deeply appreciate your last concept, that "not taken for what it really is" which I could apply in its entirety to Italian cuisine. Well, this is the sort of statement that gets me annoyed to the bone. It is an extremely superficial view of Italian cuisine, sadly widespread over and over by journalist, both Italian and foreign, who are obsessed with Italian trattoria cuisine and see little beyond that. Let me take your statement a piece at a time: - "Italian cuisine is primarily a cuisine based on perfect ingredients": yes, and then again no. How many perfect ingredients do you think there are available to the public, or even small restaurants and trattorie? The real perfect ingredients land inevitably in high end places and in the homes of the few gourmets willing to pay for them. The rest of the food cooked, sold and eaten in Italy is prepared with ingredients which are far from perfection. And yet everyone talks about the superiority of Italian ingredients all the same. Maybe we're lucky to live in a land whith such a bounty of produce, fish and meats that we can afford to sneer at things that are a step below perfection, and that could indeed be true. Or maybe we have ingredients that are not perfect but unique, and therefore seem perfect to the uninitiated. On the other hand there is one aspect that is way too often ignored: the education to taste every culture should subject its new generations to. I've noticed a few times how most Italians who like cooking develop a certain sensibility for how a dish should tatse which can hardly be replicated even with superior technique by a foreign cook. If you like, this is nothing else than generations of mothers passing down their knowledge of ingredients and tastes to the new cooks, be it home ones or professionals. Sometimes I wonder if the exportability of French cuisine has not been achieved through a slight but general loss in the quality of its products. Heresy maybe, but just a thought. -"with not that much preparation or skill over them": I agree on the preparation part. The Italian concept of cooking tries indeed to keep the integrity of the ingredients landing on the plate, offering a pure flavor.Seeing some dishes from across the Alps, be they French, Austrian or German we cannot avoid thinking that the cook has tried to satisfy his ego more than remaining true to the ingredients he uses. But again, this is a matter of upbringing, education and philosophy of food which I'd never fight over. To each their own. What I absolutely disagree on is the "not that much skill" part. To my eyes it is a joke. Could you please make paractical example for this? To my eyes regional French and Italian Cooking use pretty much similar techniques when taken in their complex. Or are you talking about haute cuisine? In that case you're ignoring centuries of high end traditions, those of the many noble courts that gave Italy its stunning art and architecture, and also a cuisine sadly rarely quoted today. Forget Caterina de Medici: look rather at Meastro Martino's Libro de Arte Coquinaria, published in the XV century, a book considered even by French food historians Odile Redon and Francois Sabban (together with the Italian Silvano Serventi), as the best and most modern cookbook of the time. Some of the methods in that book are still up to date. Reducing Italian cuisine to simply cooked ingredients is not much different than reducing Indian cuisine to curries or Chinese to stir-fries. The real problem here and the one why I'm not mad at you for these statements is that the real culprits for the widespread ignorance on Italian cooking is non else than us Italians. We have traditions but forget them, have (occasionally maybe) great chefs, but fail to build a cuisine school around them, and, most of all, we are unable to explain what our cuisine is abroad, something which the French have mastered. After all changing this is a good reason to be here on the eGullet forums

Senza glutine, gluten free, pasta sales have grown in recent years not because of low-carb diets, rather are pushed by food intollerance issues, something for which Italian doctors are as responsible, or rather irresponsible at times, as American food fears. I'll take the apologies all the same Chili use is markedly relevant only in the cuisine of Calabria (and very much so), plus, to a lesser extent, in Abbruzzi. Furthermore, it is at home thet most of us Italians seem to use our chilies, since they're often considered too rustic for restaurant food. I thought there was some burrata on sale in the US mentioned in the cooking forum before. Or was it imported? A great cheeese and ingredient, I actually heard someone is making gelato di burrata before. I'll try to find out who it was. Just thinking about the burrata, ricotta and pecorino filled ravioli I had at dal Pescatore makes me hungry... What he said

one of my teachers at school was napoletano and that's what he told me. maybe i heard wrong ← Maybe he was talking of the cuisine of the region closer to Naples too. That would definitely be closer to the truth.

chef koo, being a Napoletano myself I can say that the above information is not correct. Neapolitan cooking uses lemon very sparingly, and mostly in sweets. The situation is different if you move to the islands of Capri and Procida or the Amalfi coast, where beautifull giant lemons are grown. Even there lemon is not used everywhere, rather only in particular dishes, and then everything (zest, juice, even the leaves), or eaten thinly sliced as a salad.

Never heard of lemon in tomato sauce either. I would say it is most definitely not an Italian thing. you might find lemon rind used in some traditional sauces - mostly tomato-less, though gremolata is an exception- but I can't recall seeing juice used anywhere. On the other hand I would not say it is a no-no before I have a taste .

That's exactly what I'll be doing in a week's time . It takes between two and three hours, even less with no traffic and no snow, which hardly ever happens in my experience, especially the former. On the other hand you'll need to drive further south to find these prices, Trentino-Alto Adige is quite expensive in my experience. Never used Hapag Lloyd, because they mainly fly direct from Hannover and Hamburg. From München the only Italian destination is Palermo, which is not a bad pick. There's a few other options: AirBerlin, Easyjet maybe, flights from large German tourist agencies like TUI and Neckermann, and the occasional offer from Lufthansa and Alitalia. Quite a bit to choose from.

Adam, are you sure you want to go back to Scotland ? Great pictures of Mercato Centrale. I was particularly intrigued by the extreme left sign in the rabbit picture, the one that say "...rontosauro". Brontosaurus? A peculiar giant rabbit maybe?

They're two different things. Pizza bianca dough is, in a way, more similar to the dough used for pizza al taglio. The dough for normal round pizza in Rome is, I believe, not too different from the Neapolitan one. There are some differences, especially regarding water percentage used, I believe, but I need to check to be sure, or better I'll try to get an expert to reply on this .

Quite a few times actually , no problem repeating it though. Neapolitan is made with a "wet" dough: it pizza is soft, has a bubbly cornicione, the outside rind of the pizza, and baked very quickly at higher temperatures, traditionally in wood burning ovens. Roman round pzza is usualy thinner and crispier with a tiny cornicione, it is baked longer at lower temperatures. On top of that, there's the pizza al taglio I mentioned before; here the dough id definitel thicker than for the previous two (not as thick as a focaccia though) and is often eaten to go. This is just a short version of the differences, let me know if you want to know more.

Rick, Da Michele makes a "minimalist" pizza, only margherita or marinara (i.e. tomato, garlic and oregano), which is IMO the best in Naples. Other good addresses are Trianon (of the two in town, I prefer the one opposite to Da Michele), Starita (via Materdei I believe), and Capasso (Via Porta S.Gennaro). I lived in Naples myself till 1999 so I'm a bit out of touch with the new openings, but heard very good opinions on Pizzeria del Presidente (Via Tribunali 121). If you're interested in tasting good pizza, not Neapolitan style, in Rome there's one address I've been hearing wonders about: Pizzarium, in Via della Meloria 43. They make pizza al taglio, pizza baked in large rectangular trays and cut into sale-ready pieces. The Pizzaiolo, Gabriele Bonci, is considered a master of sourdough use in pizza. Never tried myself, but I'm dying to.

A few simple ideas: - use it to dress some pasta: mix 2-3 tablespoons of ricotta per person, with plenty of freshly crushed pepper, a nice handfull of grated parmesan and dilute with some pasta cooking water till it has a thick sauce-like consistence. Not enough to finish all the ricotta though. - Buy some bread or pizza dough (or make some yourself) and use it to make ricotta calzoni. You can play with size, filling and cooking method (baking or deep frying). A few filling ideas: ricotta, pepper and parmesan (similar to the above); ricotta, pepper, diced italian salami or sausage, and mozzarella; ricotta and chopped greens. - make the classical filling for tortelli alle erbette and either use it straightaway or freeze it. Ricotta (about one pound), an egg, about 100 grams parmesan (3-4 oz), about a pound cooked and finely chopped greens (I use spinach or Swiss chard leaves) and nutmeg. Great for filling crepes too. - Use it to make dessert: mix the ricotta with enough cocoa to turn the whole thing dark brown, add sugar to taste and maybe a little marsala, rum, or flavored schnaps for an audult version. You can also make a crostata (Italian tart) with it, but you'll need sweet pate brisee or sweet shortcut pastry. To make crostata: layer a shallow tart pan or ring with the pastry roleed not too thin (1/4 in), add one egg to the above mixture, though not everyone does, and pour it in the uncooked crust, decorate the top with the typical crostata lattice of pastry stripes, and bake (350F) for 25-35 minutes till the pastry is golden brown and the filling shows a few tiny cracks. If you need more Idea I could give it a further thought

Hem... yes, the veal roast . Must be my subconcious: I was thinking "Arista di Maiale" all the time, or maybe I'm day-dreaming about that porchetta again .

I tried them months ago, long before this thread had started. They were quite a success with the friends who tasted them an I liked them a lot as well. Having had to live with a brother who loves things that are, to me, overly sweet, I've long learned that sweetness is a very subjective matter. I simply adapt recipes depending on who I want to make happy: when he's around I just modify my recipes to include more sugar. They're certainly not moist, but I would not call them dry by any means. I don't have the book with me, yet I seem to recall sand cookies mentioned in the introduction to the recipe. Like the best sand cookies I remember these sparklers as being so delicate they would practically melt and crumble on the tongue. BTW, great work from everyone, it's torture reading this discussion before breakfast . I haven't had a chance to bake in the past weeks, but I hope to jump into the thread again soon.

Adam, those artichokes look fantastic. Did you use the sausages as stuffing? The "crust" at the top is particularly mouthwatering, is that egg was and cheese by any chance? And the prok roast picture just made me figure how much I miss zucchini that actualli taste of something! Looking at your pictures all I can say is that I'm happy I'll be travelling to Italy in 10 days time . Thank you for this great food diary.

Buckwheat consumption is quite limited in Italy, though there are one or two places where it is an integral part of the local cuisine. In Valtellina, part of the Sondrio province in Lombardy, buckwheat is still grown and used to prepare two local specialities: pizzoccheri and polenta taragna. Pizzoccheri are tagliatelle like noodles, most of the time, or less often little dumplings, and the traditional way to serve them is with savoy cabbage, diced potatoes, sage butter and plenty of the local Bitto cheese. Polenta Taragna which is practically a polenta made with half cornmeal half buckhweat flour, to which plenty of butter and Bitto cheese are added; it is often served with a pork stew on the side, just in case you should have some space left for that . Nice mountain food to keep you warm in winter. In Trentino and Südtirol there's a few polenta dishes with buckwheat flour too, even a 100% buckwheat polenta, polenta nera, and also a typical cake Buchweizenkuchen.

Had horse a few times last year in Salento, the region around Lecce in Italy, both meat and offal. The meat was either served as steak or diced and braised with a tomato sauce, both nice though the steaks were always way to thin and therefore on the dry side. I find does not taste significantly different from beef: more delicate perhaps and with a slight sweet note. The tripe on the other hand was great, just chewey without being rubbery and extremely well flavored; I would have loved to have a recipe for that. Liked it much better than the usual cow stuff. Kevin, I heard the hosemeat myth about Verona too, it makes a nice pair with the one about Vicenza and cats. I don't know if it is true but pastissada de caval, horse ragout, with polenta sure is delicious. Haven't had that in ages.

Good point, I do not use pancetta either when I want a crispy rasher of bacon, though that happens very seldom. I can't think of an Italian dish where pancetta or guanciale is pan fried to a complete crisp. Even in carbonara and amatriciana you want a little bit of "chew" from those pancetta cubes. I missunderstood your previous post: I thought you were objecting to the comparison between artisan and industrial product. I agree we're indeed talking about two completely different products. Now I only need to have a taste of that Oscar Meyer stuff to see if it stands up to Citterio's pancetta ... any experience in smuggling meat TO Europe ?

Adam, I still haven't had my second hobbit's lunch yet so your post is making me extremely hungry, especially the pie . I'm looking forward to see what happens with that pancetta. Any clue or hint about why the pork is redder in Italy? It is something I've noticed too, but I have no valid explanation. It is definitely not the race of pigs, most of those slaughtered in Italy are Large White, which I believe are quite common elsewhere too.

But you're comparing apples to oranges here. Why not compare garden-variety industrial American bacon to garden-variety industrial Italian pancetta? They are fundamentally very similar products, except that one is usually smoked. ... ← Sam, I cannot compare Italian and US industrial bacon, but I can do the comparison between Italian and UK or Italian and German industrial products without any problem, and yes, the Italian stuff wins hands down. Now, maybe I'm a bit biased. Yet if I think about the soggy stuff I would get at the Tesco's down the road in Cambridge and the dry cured industrial product from a company like Citterio or Negroni in Italy, products Italian gourmets sneer at, I can get in any Italian supermarket... well, I doubt I am. I could argue the reason for the difference is simply how extremely demanding we Italians are with our salumi but that would be only part of the story. We sure love our salumi, and in regions like Emilia Romagna, as Ore could probably tell, they're taken extremely seriously. There are other aspects though, related to food laws and climate. Considering Italy's reputation for laws and respect for them, it might be strange to know that we had some of the tightest law concerning food additives until they had to be relaxed because of the pressure of northern European states in the EU, something which has stimulated quite a few of Slow Food's campaigns. This has actually prevented the production of industrial "monsters". The other thing to consider is that dry curing is something done without too much of a problem with a climate like the Italian one. I couldn't imagine the same happening in the UK (whereas the US clearly have an advantage, with such a range of climates). and now sorry, I'm off to nibble a slice or two of that pancetta Toscana that's waiting for me in my fridge .