Bux

Fat Guy, you know what the word for Bulldog is in French?

We had lunch. I regret we didn't look into places to stay iin Sant Celoni. I think I mentioned it before, but several people had told us they drove up from Barcelona and then back after lunch and dinner so we did it that way. It would have been smarter to stay in town or take a train. When I saw the rum, I assumed it was as a digestif. Upon re-reading I realize it was with dessert. 80 euros should buy a comfortable enough room. In August, I'd probably consider air conditioning a necessity rather than a luxury. Interestingly enough, the Michelin doesn't show air conditioning for the Suis. It's great to hear about a great meal from a great chef. Santamaria doesn't get the press he deserves in the US and that area doesn't get the good tourism it deserves from the US.

Buey is ox, or at least male to the female cow. I don't know if there's a difference in age between toro and buey or if there are other terms that are also used. In the US, it's beef steak, but it's ox tail. As far as I know they come from the same animal. Caviar and pork belly sounds more than a little bizarre. I'm not even sure the fish fumet didn't make if sound even odder. I will take your word that it worked. Actually I have a lot of faith in Santamaria. The use of caviar with pork belly seems extravagant, but with all the labor that went into that meal, why should I worry about the cost of a little caviar. Let lesser chefs play with anchovies. I recall when Martin Berasategui's foie gras with smoked ell and green apple was first described to me. I scoffed until I tried it. I've had Santi's food. I know he knows what he's doing. Did you stay nearby? Did you come from Barcelona for the meal? How did you travel if so? Any sign of the promised hotel or rooms? We seriously curtailed out consumption to two bottles of wine because I had to drive back. I would have loved a dessert wine and maybe a digestif. Interesting that the pastry chef is from Bordeaux. Some European barriers are falling. The psychological barrier of the Pyrenees seems to be shrinking culturally.

Trains are excellent, but best used for transportation between cities. If you want to see and enjoy rural France, I'd have to recommend a car. France has a great network of "gites." I've not used them and prefer small country inns and hotels, but my guess is that the gites would be best used when driving in the countryside. My experience with wine tasting in France has been limited primarily to tagging along with friends who are buying cases for their own use. On the whole, I've not experienced anything like the tourist industry that's grown out of wine tasting in Napa and Sonoma counties in California. I have seen tours of wineries advertised in Bordeaux, however and I think there's been some advice here in the past. You might try a search on "tasting" or perhaps better yet on "wine tasting" or "wine" and "tasting" in this board using the search feature. I am omnivorous and not a good person to guide you on food. I recall spending a week or more in Brittany and realizing we hadn't had meat in a week or more, but that didn't count ham sandwiches or ham in crepes and it didn't account for the fact that many of the vegetables were cooked in, or finished off in, veal stock or that a fish finished off with a sauce based on veal stock was served with potatoes cooked with tripe sausage.

Some of this is just natural evolution. Older diners are likely to complain that things aren't like they were in the old days. They always have and they always will. That doesn't mean they aren't right, but times change and dining changes with it, often much to our displeasure. With an eye towards being impartial I have to wonder if Michel Troisgros is floundering in unknown waters with his use of ingredients such as mirin, or if he's using ingredients that are subjectively not what Robert wants in his meal, or in his meal in France. If it's the former, he may still find himself. If it's the latter, I have to ask, or judge for myself, if I will react the same way. While I agree that there are culinary standards and educated palates, much of what we like, or don't like, is based on a subjective reaction. In any creative endeavor, it's often the best educated palate that's often least likely to react favorably to new stimuli and I think that's still true today even if the twentieth century's legacy is make the establishment want to love the avant garde. The whole luxury dining experience is another issue. I've really come late to enjoy it and feel it's the last thing I'd miss about the great meals I've had. Over time I've come to savor all aspects of the art of dining and to enjoy the rituals of fine dining, but it must center around exceptional food. The fine linens, china and above all the attentive service are nothing to me but an honor to the food I am eating. Without the greatest food, the trappings are hollow and dining on average food in a pampered setting would be like praying to a god I didn't believe in. Sure I'll attend a wedding or funeral in respect for the people involved, but it's not necessarily a religious experience.

I'm not familiar with the name, although from time to time I've bought some rather artisanal preserves in some fancy shops that were superb, but I've forgotten the name of the producer and only remember the shop in which it was purchased. in any event, they were purchased in Europe. I don't see why this preserve shouldn't last a month or two in the refrigerator after opening. As for the "open by" date, most of those are to guaranty flavor rather than safety. I'd tend to say that all fine preserves are best consumed in the first year and that you may notice a flavor loss after they are opened. Refrigerating them will keep them longer, but eating the preserves cold may dull the flavor.

I'd think the diner deserved a little more consideration for his disappointment in what is a service and hospitality industry, but the truth is that I really don't care to discuss anything with anyone who is always right. It's really pointless and I don't understand why anyone who thinks he's always right, wants my opinion.

Indeed they are both Burgundies, but Beaune is a bit more select and I would expect you, of all people, to appreciate the difference. I know the street because there was a little hotel that my wife used to recommend as a budget hotel. It was quite charming and they've renovated the whole place so it's less of a budget hotel now, but the rates top out where the Montalembert and Pont Royal start. The area is dead at night, but very safe with all the gendarmes on the street protecting the Assembly and the Ministeries. Presumably there are good lunch places around for the politicians and ministers. It ends just a half block from the Musé Rodin, but I suspect few tourists know the street.

Close, but no cigar or maybe you need to better define your appellation. Rue Montablembert leads into rue de Beaune. Rue de Bourgogne is another street further west. It runs into the back of the National Assembly.

Some fax machines shut off when they run out of paper. It's also possible that the machine is turned off which might give an error signal rather than a no answer.

I'm looking at the label of some peach and sweet almond preserves I bought in the Lyon market earlier this spring. March 2005 is the date marked on the label. This is a preferred date for consumption and not an indication the preserves are likely to be spoiled after that date. Keep cool after opening usually means refrigerated in a house with central heating. As with all jams, that's good advice unless you're going to finish it in a week. I consider my jar to be a cut better than Bonne Maman, but not the utmost super quality. For the record, there's added pectin and concentrated lemon juice. The pectin provides texture and the lemon juice concentrate may be a preservative as well as a flavor, but the real preservative in the jam is sugar. This particular preserve is 61% sugar although the percentage of fruit is 55%. Some of the sugar comes from the fruit. Anyway, there are no artificial preservatives in it.

Roellinger in Cancale is about the best eating in either Brittany or Normandy. For a Relais & Chateaux inn, his rates are not unreasonable either, although one can certainly find less expensive accommodations. The rooms and the restaurant are likely to be booked full on short notice this time of year anyway. Roellinger is to the restaurants in the area as Mont St. Michel is to the other offshore rocks. For inexpensive eating in Brittany, almost any good creperie can't be beat for lunch value. I've been to St. Malo, it's nice, but not all that interesting. I suppose it's relative. It was bombed out in the second world war, but rebuilt nicely. We were there just before the start of a major sailing event. It was sponsored by Cutty Sark. The tall ships and sail boats in the harbor were the attraction for us and we hardly entered the city but for a few minutes. These were incredible sailing ships, however. The tall ships came from all over the world and many were manned by cadets of the various national navies. Many were open for tours and the harbor area was exceptionally festive. Nothing seems to draw a French crowd as much as Latin American music and the tall ships from South American drew huge crowds. Nevertheless, St. Malo is a pleasant town and I'd recommend a promenade around the ramparts if you are in the area.

Steve, there is an implication in your post that Lyon does't have attraction for art lovers. Le Vieux Lyon probably classifies as an architectural site of some significance to those who appreciate or enjoy gothic and renaissance architecture. It's a rare district of urban houses from the 15th and 16th century. Although I prefer to stay in the presqu'ile, one has the opportunity to sleep as well as dine in several elegant hotels in restored structures. The Musée des Beaux-Arts may not be world class, but I've found it's size renders it easy to see and navigate. It often has excellent temporary shows as well and has been recently renovated. On the other hand, the fabric museum (Musée des Tissus) is world class as might be fitting Lyon's historical role as a silk center. The contemporary museum is quite active and well worth a visit if one wants "art," rather than "culture." Lyon is a larger city than Nice and has opera and theater, but neither has a three star restaurant in town. Nice desn't really have a beach but is certainly closer to a beach than Lyon. Does "beach" fit the "cultural" category? The original poster asked about cities that offer great dining and cultural activites. "Great" may be hard to justify without at least two 3 star restaurants within the city limits, but how many cities are there with 3 star restaurants and how many can compete with Lyon as a cultural center, or even come close. The issue I raise, is that Lyon is not a dud. It's actually a neat city. Although not as cutely appealing as Nice for the average tourist, it has a lot to offer the tourist and resident. Lizzie has made an appealing case for consideration of Lyon over Nice as a city that's "happening" in terms of young chefs. I'd make the case that there's more soul food in Lyon than Nice just in the form of tablier de sapeurs and andouillettes. There's really great food in Lyon and a lot of it may be found outside the great restaurants. I also find Lyon is a city in which I feel good just because I pass so many appealing windows of food shops and, as you note, it has what may well be the finest chocolate shop in Europe--or at least a prime contender. I like Nice almost as well.

Actually I was thinking of shops in NYC, not France when I posted last. As much as I love the local open markets and covered markets as we travel in France, a trip is never complete without a couple of stops in a hypermarché. It usually takes me quite a while to pull myself away, even when I'm just window shopping. They're great for stocking up on snacks for the road, souvenirs and gifts to bring back and staples when we're staying with friends. Some of the really good ones are excellent and I remember one in Brittany where we did some serious shopping for a meal. The better cheeses and charcuterie were exceptional, although they also had a large stock of very industrial commerical products.

Whew, for a minute I thought we were going to have another twelve pages on this.

In the media board I commented on the Robuchon artcle about how he had said we will see the end of haute cuisine as we know it. To run the sort of restaurant he ran was too prohibitive financially to be an interesting business model. I also noted that Ferran Adria planned to open what's described as a fast food restaurant in the corner of an NH Hotel in Madrid.Great food doesn't have to be synonymous with great dining, but great dining will be missed if it disappears--or if I can't afford it anymore.

Lizzie, are you asking about the Troisgros cuisine or international cuisine? I've had but one meal in Roanne and that was in the mid eighties. I don't kow what it's like now except for what I read. When Claude Troisgros had a restaurant in NYC, I had a few meals there and loved them. When Pierre came to hep celebrate the first anniversary of Claude's restaurant, we had an overpriced meal that was less successful than the regular offerings. It left me with little interest in special gourmet attracting meals for a long time. Is cuisine pure and clean elsewhere to day? Yes and no. I can't put a face on it. There's nothing pure or clean about most fusion food I've tried. The cuisine at Blue Hill in New York, is light and digestible, pure and clean. That in itself doesn't make it any better than the tripe I also love. Come to think of it, we got pork bellies once at Blue Hill, although they were pretty light and digestible--for pork bellies.

Wow, I never really gave that much thought Interesting, as Fat Guy and I have different views. Admittedly my view is based on early observations of a limited sort and since reaching that view, I haven't given it much thought either. Maybe this is a question for the France board. I've have seen and purchased Amora mustard and other items under that brand name. I don't seem to see it around lately, but I have an impression that the brand is seen in discount stores more often than specialty shops. That means very little in terms of relative or absolute quality. I don't have a strong memory of it being particularly better or worse than other brands incluing Maille. Most of the mustards I've used start out fine, but some seem to lose flavor faster than others, or maybe we didn't use the jar as quickly. Years ago I brought home a huge jar of mustard from France. It was less for the economy than for the novelty. I had never seen a jar that big in the US. Later on I discovered such a jar for sale, but I had already learned my lesson. By the time we reached the botton of that jar, the flavor was less pungent than when we opened the jar.

I was in Vancouver, Victoria and Seattle a few years back. I managed to eat well in all three places, but I was impressed by Vancouver as a culinary city. I don't mean to suggest I'd easily give up the restaurants of New York, Paris or even London in exchange for what Vancouver had to offer. It doesn't match those cities in terms of scope or sustained highs, but it did seem world class in some aspects. I didn't see, and this is a plus for Vancouver, the trendy interest in creating a Pacific rim fusion cuisine that I found in Seattle or even San Francisco. Is this yet to come, or is Vancouver too sophisticated and cosmopolitan to fall prey to this sort of thing? I doubt the latter, just by seeing what goes on in NY and now Paris in terms of "fusion." Judging from your online menu, I feel safe taking this tack here as your food doesn't seem to be the kind any one would talk about unless it's very very good. I'm actually a fan of creative cooking, but not of fusion which rarely seems to come from one's own strengths in the kitchen. We had an introduction to Lumiere and although Feenie was out of town we ate exceptionally well and had an excellent pairing of BC wines. The wines alone, which are unseen and virtually unheard of in New York are reason enough to make a trip interesting for someone who thinks every worthwhile wine in the world can be found in Manahattan shops. Overall the dinner was what I would describe as world class and together with some more casual spots, some home cooking and the Granville market it was easy to believe one could eat very well on a daily basis in Vancouver. Oddly enough, one of the highlights of our trip was the black cod (sable) served at a Hunan restaurant in Victoria. The manager told us he got it straight from his fisherman friend who caught it off the Alaska coast. Thus I was both surprised and disappointed at your response regarding fresh fish to Jayask's question about ingredients. Of course I was delighted to see you've taken steps to solve your problem, but I was pretty impressed by the fish I saw available at the Granville market. Can you tell us anything about your sources in relation to say, a New York chefs? Could your work with suppliers in terms of seafood bring about a benefit to the consumer in a manner related to the way New York chefs have worked with local farmers whose produce may also be purchased by consumers in the Greenmarket? Thanks for coming to eGullet. Thanks for reading my post. Please feel free to respond to the questions I've asked along the way, or instead to respond to anything I've said if you find a more interesting opening.

You've got me there! Actually, though, didn't that topping on the halibut really function as vegetable. After all, it was not crispy or even bready. We had a long debate about the ingredients it contained and it took quite a few minutes before anyone suggestesd bread. We all were puzzling over whether or not there were carrots or squash in there. Actually, I think it was the combination of the tomatoes and the butter with the bread that fooled our tastebuds and our eyes. (butter in tomato sauce always seems to turn the color orangey). In fact, I was being a bit facetious about a few bread crumbs qualifying as a starch, but a smiley seemed inappropriately heavy handed. As you note, the "crust" was hardly crusty, but as unshocking as I find the food at Blue Hill it regularly plays with conventional notions of food. There did seem to be a lot of flavor in that "crust."

What about the bread crumbs on the halibut?

I may have been thrown off track by the butter brought with my saucisson. I can't remember even being served mustard in anyone's house. Then again, I've eaten in maybe a half dozen homes in France. Far less than a scientific sampling would require. To my taste, I'd prefer cornichons over mustard or butter and have sometimes been served those little pickles. I think of mustard as used in the kitchen more than the table, although as I noted, it's often on the table for use at your discretion in some (many?, most?) bistrots. It's regularly used in vinaigrette sauces and mayonnaises. I like it on hangar steak and fresh sausages. I also like it added to hot sauces for meats and certainly with a choucroute garni. Actually mustard in France always reminds me of my daughter's first meal in France. She was eleven. It was our first night after arriving on the plane. We had found a nice place to stay and were someplace probably south of the Loire. We wandered into a nearby restaurant that had a respectable 14 rating from GaultMillau and she ordered a chicken with mustard sauce. I don't recall what I expected--a mild mustardy cream sauce or a hot grilled poulet a la diable--but out came a portion of chicken under a massive coating of greasy gloppy broken sauce of mustard and butter. Totally without finess in conception, and totally without visual or palatable appeal. It was basically inedible. Only after the following night's dinner and Troisgros on the third night were we able to make a convincing argument that we were there for the food.

We generally have one French "Dijon" mustard in the fridge. I'm not particularly loyal, but Maille is the standard brand for us. It wouldn't be my first choice on a hot dog, but you're not likely to see hot dogs here. When I have a hot dog, wherever it is, they seem to have a proper mustard for it. Unless I'm mistaken, saucisse is fresh sausage in French and saucisson is dry sausage. While is was commonly understood that deli mustard was appropriate with hot dogs, pastrami and "kosher" salami in my New York childhood, I've never seen a Frenchman serve or ask for mustard with his saucisson. In my earliest student visits to Parisian bistrots I might have ordered a plate of saucisson as an appetizer. There was generally a pot of mustard on the table which I used with my dry sausage, but the management in those little places that never offered butter with bread, always brought a bit of butter for the saucisson. It was one of those minor, but fascinating cultural differences and I found it odd that a people who didn't butter their bread, would butter their salami. I suppose it's one of the things you might miss if you only eat in two and three star restaurants.This will be a long enough thread of personal preferences, unless of course, someone (I'm not naming names) comes along to tell us that one particular mustard is incontestably the best mustard by objective standards and then this thread will go on forever.

I didn't think you expected a consensus when you posed the question, although I wasn't sure if the question was somewhat rhetorical or intended to help Lizzie decide. While many of us are known characters whose tastes and preferences may have struck some chords and might be remembered by others and thus serve best as they can be filtered by regular participants, I wonder if it would be more interesting if we offered reasons for our choices. Parlor games for the internet, I suppose and I'm not ready to play as I have to temper this evening's dose of opiate online.

I had the same garnish with a main course that had been used by itself as an amuse in a one star restaurant and I was embarrassed for the chef. I wondered as well if Michelin had any standards for Provence. I've had successive and successful dishes accompanied by some of the same vegetables, but prepared in different ways or in different combinations so as to show the vegetable in such a new light. I find that quite acceptable and even enlightening, but if Robert is saying it was the same exact preparation repeated, I'd find that offensive. I've had waiters suggest I change my order because the sauces on the dishes I ordered were similar and it was with the mutual understanding that they were doing their job properly. Is Troisgros famous for "keeping the family tradition alive?" Is that why it is awarded three stars? One can look at Bocuse's listing and say, "yes, Michelin does that," but look at the dishes listed for Bocuse and note the absence of salmon in sorrel sauce for Troisgros. Tour d'Argent in Paris has two stars and it's duck is still recommended. Then again restaurants are invited to submit their recommended dishes. My rather poor French interprets GaultMillau's comments about the food as saying it's new and bold, but that the flavors are measured. Indeed the strength of the GaultMillau listing should give hope that Robert's initial response might change on a second or third exposure.