Bux

I thank you for that, although I have to add that it's changed my mind about needing to return. That you "both felt that we were better cared for than fed" is something that would depress me to have to say. Of course you may have ordered poorly or hit a bad day, but your observant comments indicate the unlikelihood of that. Of course I might still go to Troisgros. My tastes may be different enough and then there's the curiosity factor. I'm disturbed by your comments on sweetness in savory dishes. I'm afraid it's annoyed me in many places where I otherwise have a high regard for the chef as well as some places where I have had less of a regard for the chef in the US and France. Perhaps I need to re-educate my palate for the 21st century. I hope not. I don't think it will happen and I don't enjoy being in the derriere-garde. There is, of course, a great tradition of sweetness in savory foods from the sweet and sour Alsatian Jewish dishes to Sicilian, middle eastern and north African dishes with fruit and raisins. So I find it possible to enjoy the sweet with the savory at times. What comes through in your post is not just the recipes and the lack of a discernible French identity, but a carelessness in the preparation as well as concept. Of course I place some hope in Steve's theory that the personal history for you was too strong to allow an accessibility to the new Troisgros style. It is easier for me to accommodate strange things in England and Spain than in France, where I've been too happy dining in the past and where my tastes were formed. France is my retreat and it is far more threatening to lose what I have there, then to be confronted and confounded elsewhere.

Dan noted there were three tables of members. I can only presume there were a couple of tables of lurkers.

Is that a clear bottle, or a white bottle? Any idea about what's in it?

I wondered whether the tomato menu might be forced and it wasn't. Tomatoes took a central role in the terrine and appeared in a major supporting supporting role in the fish and a minor supporting role in the dessert, where one might have expected them to make a forced statement, and finally they took a back seat in the lamb dish. The stuffed grape tomato amuse was not very creative but packed a great deal of flavor into that tiny green tomato stuffed with crab meat. The shotglass of tomato consomme--really clear tomato water with (I think--lemon thyme) and a bit of tomato sorbet was quite contemporary. It was however, the only amuse soup I've had there I wouldn't have wanted to have as a full bowl. That's not really a negative criticism as I don't believe it was offered as a full course and worked as a shot. It did remind me a bit of a recipe of Steve Klc's for gazpacho based on a tomato water base. I suspect there are a lot of tomato water recipes floating around the restaurants that I just haven't tried. I find halibut a difficult fish to prepare in terms of proper cooking as well as garnishing and seasoning. My halibut last night was among the best I've had and that opinion was shared by the chef at our table who had prepared most of the other halibut dishes that would be in contention for the honor of best I've ever had. The tomato bread crumb crust was almost "crustless" and vaguely transparent, yet increcibly effective. The broth and the stuff in it were powerfully subtle. That sort of contradiction is how I can best describe the strength of the kitchen. This is not a fresser's restaurant. I think it's best enjoyed by tasters and savorers who come to food in slow deliberate bites. The predessert, rose wine based "soup" if I'm not mistaken, was typical of the very fine light and refreshing predessert treats I've head at Blue Hill. The highlight of the dinner, for me (for others at my table it was the fish) was the tomato terrine and Tim Stark whose Pennsylvania farm supplies the heirloom tomatoes to Blue Hill and many of the better and best restaurants in NYC has to share the spotlight. His stand is where you'll find Toby on most Mondays and Wednesdays. Wednesday is reputedly the big day to find chefs shopping in the market although I've run into Mike and Dan on a Saturday and seen other chefs on a Monday. When I first saw heirlooms for sale in the market I was as skeptical as I usually am about the quality to price ratio of any "premium product" and have to say I was not an early purchaser. It took a tasting or two elsewhere to convince us to try them at home. It's not that one can say they are twice as good as a beefsteak or plum tomato as much as it's easier to say they are almost an entirely diferent set of species. From variety to variety I may see greater differences than between all the commercial tomatoes I've ever had in my life. If those who took the wine pairings remember and would care to share the names or even types selected, I'd be interested in hearing. Having arrived after toasting my daughter's birthday with bubbly, we opted for a bottle of NZ sauvignon blanc and a St. Chinian. I kind of enjoyed the segue from white to red during the halibut--so much for those who place faith in the "perfect" wine for each and every food and I clearly have no comprehension of how someone could profess to enjoy just white wine or just red. The sauvignon blanc was a pretty unanimous choice at our table. The St. Chinian was a suggestion from the waiter who seemed to know what he was talking about in response to my questions about the Rhone wines on the list. Interestingly, he chose to suggest a downscale Languedoc and an upscale Italian wine. We enjoyed meeting the other members and were sorry not to get a chance to dine and talk with them and particularly with those we had not met before--or at least we were sorry to some small degree as we were with our two favorite dining companions.

Why do I not find it surprising that Fat Guy can read bar codes without a scanner--or indeed, that he can glean information from then beyond the reach of ordinary scanners. I've seen the red lights in his eyes, by the way, lest the rest of you have doubts. I have to go with Jin on this one, although perhaps it's an acquired taste and not for all dishes. There is nothing quite so wonderful as a hand made, all yolk and fruity extra virgin olive oil mayonnaise. A little mustard is fine. You have to love the flavor of your oil. There was a time in my life, and if wasn't all that long ago in reltive terms, that I found the taste of a good EVOO more than a bit overpowering, and it was long after I acquired a taste for olives without gin that I took to the really flavorful oils I now love. I'd not familiar with Duke's mayonnaise. Can anyone compare it to Hellman's? While bottled "mayo" offers some added safeguard against salmonella, it's of relatively little concern to me as I eat my softboiled eggs very runny anyway. I find bottled mayos taste of sugar, but if you consume a lot of bottled sauces and dressings, or frequently use ketchup in large quantities, the sugar is not likely to be noticeable.

That reminds me, I like the goat cheese/onion tart as Balthazar.

I don't agree that Lyon is overrated. For one thing it doesn't seem to be rated highly. Certainly it's not as highly rated as Paris, yet one stands so much more chance of actually having a terrible meal in Paris than in Lyon. Lyon doesn't reach the heights of Paris. Paris is foie gras and caviar to Lyon's sausages. Paris is Champagne and first growth Bordeaux. Lyon is local Beaujolais. Perhaps part of Lyon's appeal to me is that it has little tourist appeal. Nice and Avignon are full of charm and tourists. Lyon is full of Frenchmen and a wonderful place to experience ordinary Frenchness. It does help if you love tripe and St. Marcellin cheese.

Off hand I suppose it sounds as if you're reading a hand lettered sign in a beauty salon.

The New Yorker is not what it was in the fifties and sixties, (nor am I) but the decline hasn't been consistent or steady. I have stopped my subscription at least once or twice out of protest or conviction, but in the end I decide that a couple of article a year justify the price and it's always good to have something around the house to grab to that's new to read if I need it. Several times it's occurred to me that the New Yorker is not what it was and I've looked to find the magazine that is what the New Yorker was. I then realize I was not a there for its formative years anyway and that no magazine will ever again be to me what the New Yorker was when I first met it, if only because I will never be that age again those who are that age live in another world. I enjoyed the Trillin piece. I've always loved his work, but I often suspect others hold him in much higher regard and I sometimes wonder if he hasn't reached mythical proportions in their minds. He debunked an urban myth and he told his story in an engaging manner. Pure enough, if not the best, Trillin for me. It's just a periodical, not a compendium of the best writing of the decade. I have to say I found Jane Kramer's article interesting and maybe touching. Perhaps there were only a few lines I found thrilling, but all in all it moved me to at least continue reading. My basic hunger for words and phrases is not as great as it is for food, but there are dishes that didn't move me to finish them.

This was part of a post of mine from last November. This is by no means in a class near Comme Chez Soi where we also ate, but I felt those traditional eels were a compelling dish. Whether or not I consider it special might depend on context and your interests. Orignal thread. We were led to another place (Le Passage, av. J&P Carsoel 13) that was quite interesting and an very good buy, but were driven there by friends. It's in an outlying residential neighborhood.

"Without a doubt...probably." Well I haven't eaten in all of them and I probably said that before I ate in Les Loges which has the most interesting food and space, but which didn't quite come off as better than Leon de Lyon, perhaps because I found aspects of the restaurant and service affected. Our three meals as Leon de Lyon were taken many years apart and the first two were also tasting menus. Orsi was by far the most traditional restaurant, but we found both the chef and the food captivating. I thought I may have posted on les Loges, but I can't find it, nor can I find my notes. It was the last meal of the trip. A search on eGullet should produce a lot of posts on Lyon. It's a great city for rustic fare. Tripe is a specialty in several forms. We dined at Paul Bocuse a good number of years ago and, in a way, I suppose everyone should dine there once, but it's an institution more than a restaurant. Bocuse is Lyon's most famous son, but his restaurant just doesn't seem to be where the excitement is. It's a long drive from Lyon as well. A taxi both ways could be the price of dinner elsewhere.

I suppose not really parallel, but worthy of note in context are" - The guy goes up to the soda fountain counter and says "Make me a malted." and - The Buddhist who goes up to the hot dog stand and says "Make me one with everything."

Worth the trip from where--New York, London or Paris? Certainly the majority of great restaurants in France are outside of Paris and there's still good regional eating in France. Perhaps I should also enquire about the cultural activites you have in mind. Are you talking about theater, concerts, opera, or museums and architecture? In France some of the best dining is at country inns. Lyon has a great fine arts museum, a really great textile museum, some Roman ruins, a great park with a pretty nice contemporary art museum, a recently renovated opera house, some excellent restaurants in the city and access to great restaurants several hours away. My general feeling on cultural/dining excursions would be to spend a week or more touring by car in one or two of the provincial regions of France where you can combine cultural sightseeing with truly exceptional dining. Exactly which region(s) might depend on the time of year and personal interests.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Of all the things said about Mario Batali and Babbo, that phase to denote a single diner at the bar may be one of the most innocuous of all. Given the way that slang arises and the way that most of us can mock ourselves, I didn't even see it as necessarily pejorative. I mean if you want the kitchen to pay extra attention to you, you can get a high priced hooker to keep you company at a table. A propos of Mario's rather populist appeal and the threads on eGullet about getting a shot at reservations, service and food on an equal basis with others, I would have thought the comments about his attitude towards VIPs might have offended some. It's also curious that his attitude towards not being in the kitchen isn't a topic of discussion here. I'm one of those who judges a chef's talents on his ability to train a staff to perform flawlessly when he's not there, but so many others like to know the chef is in the kitchen cooking when their food is being prepared.

However, the yearly subscription rate for those who are eGullet members or happen to have a mailing address in the U.S., is $16.95 assuming rates haven't changed since my price list was printed. This is a professional rate and you will have to produce a business card or letterhead and order through Delta Publishing Group, 718.972.0900 or 800.728.3728. Rates on food magazines are equally as good and most subscriptions do not require a business affiliation. At well under fifity cents an issue, the magazine pays for itself in just the exercise I get lugging the unread issues to the curb for recycling. I'd didn't even have to like the Gopnik or Buford articles, or even get anything special out of them to get my money's worth and I haven't read the Kennedy article yet. What's the competition got to offer me to read?

In another thread, mynamejoe said: That got me to thinking that many members who work in restaurants have equally amusing stories they could add. One of my second hand stories is about the man about town who returned his salad because it had bits of glass in it. It took a couple of plates before the staff realized he was talking about the fleur de sel. Do you embarrass a VIP diner in front of this guest, or do you apologize for the glass and let him walk out thinking there was glass in his salad? So if all you cooks and servers will fire away, we sophisticated diners will snicker on the sidelines until we recognize ourselves in one of your stories.

I'm already convinced I need to return soon, but go on anyway.

It's no surprise to me that a reasonably sane family with members of widely different ages, could enjoy fine dining in France as a focal point of most days. Leaving aside certain subjective decisions and interests I'm sure it could be done at varying price levels and degrees of formality. I'd be curious to hear about some of the other restaurants on your trip.

It's TV, for god's sake. Of course it's bullshit. Look carefully, Nina, there was a wink. Since I read all your posts as if they start with a wink, the second wink sends a confused signal to me too. Besides, I've found it a very peculiar wink and closer to a grimace thatn a wink and have always wondered if it wasn't meant to hide an expression of more evil intent. On the other hand, I really should have replied to Nina and told her "It's the Internet, for god's sake."

Let me thank Leslie Brenner for answering our questions with great thoroughness. For those questions, we are indebted to the members who asked them. I'd also like to thank Clarkson Potter, publisher of The Fourth Star for their offer to send five copies of the book to members participating in this forum. Names will be drawn at random and recipients of the books will be notified by private mail. I'm glad to read that Leslie enjoyed this session and I join other members who have expressed an interest in seeing her continued informed and erudite participation in many areas of eGullet. I trust this eGullet Q&A forum will stimulate members to continue thinking about the issues and topics raised and to discuss some of them in related areas of eGullet.

My apologies for thinking, or rather assuming out loud that there had been others. The New Yorker has been running these single topic issues of one kind or another for some time and I thought I recalled one from the past and someone else said the same thing to me in a conversation in real life. I do have a real life, it's just that it's small in comparison to my eGullet life. Even if it's the first, my theory works in principle. Liza, with some fear of dragging out the problems I earlier discussed with From Paris to the Moon I'd love to hear some of your issues with Mr. Gopnick which I might assume are about the Greenmarket coverage. As I said, I mostly consider myself a fan of his writing, but I stumble when he talks about food. I'm not sure I got the overall point of this article. I missed a focus, although I think the stuff on Dan is really good background for the recent eGullet Q&A. I'm looking forward to McPhee's article. I'm currently reading the one on Molto Mario and found the part about the author's stage in the kitchen a bit of a non sequitur. I'm curious to see if it leads anywhere.

Why not ask food4thought, or did Shaw pick him to appear on the program.

Bodegas Julian Chivite's Gran Feudo rosé from Navarra has been a summertime staple for several years in our house. It's excellent for light al fresco dining. It's very inexpensive and I consider that a virtue. Plenty of competition from the south of France and other places Bonny Doon's Vin Gris de Cigare [that's cigar as in flying saucer (UFO) to the French--read the back label if you need to know] is very nice for a couple of bucks more. If a I want a near serious rosé, I'd look towards Tavel from the Rhone, but my life is not all "wow." I've said it before, but basically I don't think rosés go with any particular food as much as they go with eating outdoors. Pizza with pepper infused oil at any provencal French sidewalk cafe or the cours Saleya in Nice is perfect.

Is there a line you might draw in relation to where an employer need not safeguard an employees health? Can you defend legislation designed to improve mining conditions or those of any other occupation? Speaking of butts, would you see anything wrong with IBM allowing employees free reign in pinching butts. From a managerial position if might improve male worker morale--at the expense of female workers perhaps, but isn't that a decision a company should make on the merits as it affects their business interests in a manner similar to allowing smoking? It's just a matter of allowing one workers urges and needs to affect another worker's body. Assuming if it goes not further than a pinch, there's no lasting physical harm. That's as swift an answer as I can make at the moment.

I don't suppose you've ever tried to withhold information from Cabrales.