cabrales

J Acord -- I asked about eating at the ground floor level Tuesday night, around 9 pm, and was told that food was not being served there at that time. Members interested in eating at the ground floor level may wish to call the restaurant to confirm availability. ;)

Tony -- I agree the prices are good, and the meal can be served rapidly upon a diner's request. The prices are appropriate not only in absolute terms, but also in terms of the food quantity received for both appetizers and entrees. For example, my appetizer of squid might have passed for an entree at a few establishments if size of the dish were the only criterion. As for the pork belly entree, the mashed potato component was large and the belly itself was rather filling. ;) Several entrees had vegetable components/sides that rendered separate payment for side dishes unnecessary. It's also appropriate, as you note, to focus on the noise level. There was a number of large (6-plus) groups, many of which spoke loudly. ;) Have members been to the "Top Floor", and are the prices much more elevated?

Patricia Wells has provided an inevitably positive report on Hiramatsu (inevitable -- in view of her reviewing style and not, in my mind, necessarily in view of the restaurant, which was quite good but not compelling): http://www.patriciawells.com/reviews/iht/2002/1603.htm An excerpt follows: The restaurant "has had its share of fans and foes. . . . And then there are those (like me) who say: *Who cares where he came from*, it's what's on the plate that matters. And in my estimation, he has brought a welcome breath of fresh air . . . . [The chef] has had a long-time dream of having a tiny restaurant in Paris to use as a sort of *laboratory* for testing and selecting ingredients to export to Japan, as well as training kitchen and dining room staff. . . . [He] plans to change the entire menu and all the china four times a year."

Patrice -- What did the Ispahan taste like?

I was glad to have recently sampled "Bresse chicken in half-mourning" at La Mere Brazier in Lyons. It was the Brazier family that pioneered this dish, and their version is at least as good as the cream-based versions previously sampled at Pacaud's L'Ambroisie (Paris) and Boyer Les Crayeres (Rheims). The Brazier chicken, served with cooking jus, featured the clear and natural taste of the fowl. -- Quenelle au gratin (Pike quenelle, in a gratin. The Brazier family also created this famous traditional Lyons dish. However, I found this appetizer average. Although the worked pike had interesting texture, it was denser than I would have liked and the accompanying Bechamel sauce with mushrooms was somewhat bland.) -- Volaille de Bresse demi-deuil (Bresse chicken in half-mourning) -- Saint-Marcellin de Renne Richard (cheese) -- Glace vanille, creme chocolate chaud, galette bressane (Vanilla ice cream, hot chocolate sauce, little Bresse cake. This dessert was nothing special. The galette resembled bread with sugar sprinkled on top.) (The above items were chosen from a 55 euro-tasting menu that offered two alternatives at each stage.) -- House Champagne, Roederer -- Puligny-Montrachet 1997, Leflaive (½ bottle at under 40 euros) Each diner receives a quarter of a (poached? steamed?) chicken in half mourning. I requested the thigh, which featured two relatively thick pieces of black truffle lodged between the skin, which had a nice controlled fatness, and the meat. The (limited) usage of black truffles accounts for the half-mourning reference. The use of the jus from cooking as the sauce bolstered the juiciness within the chicken. The flesh was also smooth and flavorful. (The Bresse chicken was of the "poularde" variety, which has to meet different technical AOC requirements than Bresse "poulet", although the latter term is often used imprecisely) A row of decently sized carrot and turnip pieces, and softened leek, were included. A rice that was slightly harder than I like was also served. Halfway through my sampling of the chicken dish, I noticed the crests and sot-d'y-laisse (a special small portion of a chicken, and one of the ingredients in a salad included in Craig Claibourne's famous Paris feast) were not being served to diners. (The cooked chicken is cut in the dining room.) The captain indicated the crests were available upon request, and that sot-d’y-laisse appeared at times on the lunch menu in the form of a salad. Following my inquiries, the dining room team graciously offered me 4-5 of each of sot-d'y-laisses and crests. The latter was less firm and abalone-like in texture than the same item sampled at Georges Blanc's (in a vinegar sauce, served with pigeon slices and greens). A nice platter of four condiments was served with the Bresse chicken. Dijon mustard, which would have overwhelmed the dish, but was appropriate for the crests; griottes (cherries) in vinegar; pickled items; and a coarse fleur de sel. The restaurant consists of two principal rooms. The decor is country-style and traditional, but charming due to the absence of pretentiousness. The dining room staff members were friendly and professional, as was Chef Jacotte Brazier. For the chicken in half mourning dish alone, I would consider La Mere Brazier worthy of the sole Michelin star which was removed this year. The other dishes were admittedly not particularly tasty, however. ;)

I had dinner at the St John bar area mid-last week. The meal was delightful, including in view of my recent interest in UK pig breeds. I'd have to admit that it was difficult, though, to parse whether the nice pork dishes were attributable more to Henderson's preparation methods or to the intrinsic qualities of the pork. A non-rare-breed pork loin I had at St John previously had been good as well. 6 Native Oysters (12.00 pounds) Snails and *Bacon* -- I was informed the bacon was Old Spot(6.80) Skate and Fennel (6.90) *Old Spot* Sandwich (4.90) Roast *Middlewhite* and Potato (17.20, from restaurant area) Glass of French White Brittany Cider (for the Middlewhite) When I arrived, all tables in the bar area were occupied; I settled on a stool at one end of the bar itself. The crowds milling around me were not as distracting as I had imagined. Small oysters were soon next to me -- relatively flat in shape and tasty. The next dish was dominated by the generous amount of bacon encircling each snail before it was added to a skewer. The taste of the snails was lost, but the upside was saltiness and smokiness from the bacon (perhaps a bit too much, since there were not high levels of fattiness to offset these effects). A bar team member indicated that all Old Spot meats served at St John (including OS pork chops, e.g. served with prunes, available from time to time) are subjected to smoking prior to being served at St John. The skate with fennel was refreshing. The skate was (surprisingly) presented in shreds, following the natural flesh of the fish. Capers, lemon and olive oil melded well with the crunchiness of the fennel. Then, the two best dishes of the meal. A tasty OS bacon sandwich, with salty/smoky effects and just enough adjacent fat cast against the coolness of raw watercress and a dark raisin and onion chutney. Soft, plump bread. There was too much Worcestshire sauce in the chutney, but the overall effect of the sandwich was very good. I couldn't say that the OS bacon was particularly distinctive relative to the range of bacon available generally, but its flavors were sharp. I liked this sandwich -- a bargain at under 5 pounds. The Middlewhite pork loin was good too. Presented in two slices, each thinner than the typical pork chop, the Middlewhite was juice-imbued and tender. The pork tastes were evident because there was not the toughness and density normally associated with certain pork chops. It was as if I were tasting tenderloin of pork. In each loin section, there was an outside portion that was not particularly tender, but the bulk of each piece was. That no sauce was proffered was appropriate -- none was needed. I paired this dish with Brittany cider, based on the classic pork/apple combination that is uninteresting in most current manifestations at restaurants. With the cider being a liquid, cold, hoppy and more complex than the fruit, the cider worked well with the Middlewhite. Overall, the meal was satisfying and very filling! Other dishes available from St John's menu mid-last week (the restaurant, and not necessarily on the bar area) included (1) Pig's Cheek and Watercress (6.80; see positive reaction Simon M and I each had to a similar dish described in the "St John" thread), (2) Pea and Pig's Ear Soup (6.00), (3) Roast Beef and Aioli (18.00), (4) Baked Celeriac and Eggs (9.00),(5) Venison Liver, Lentils and Wild Garlic (13.80), and (6) Raisin and Marc Ice Cream (5.20). Separately, I called Bibendum and was advised that the restaurant serves OS chops during lunch occasionally. However, as the lunch menu changes daily, there can be no assurance when the item may appear.

Among Herme’s creations is the “Ispahan”, which features lychee and rose flavors. “Where” magazine recently provided a picture of this dessert – apparently consisting of two pieces sandwiching, among other things, rasberries. Above the top piece are a raspberry and a red rose petal, and there appears to be a layer of cream (presumably lychee) between such items and the top peice. While I have not yet visited Herme's shop, the Ispahan item sounds interesting. ;) Herme’s newer shop is reported to be 185 rue de Vaugirard in the 15th arrondisement (01 47 83 29 72; members should verify before relying -- unconfirmed). His other shop is 72 rue Bonaparte in the 6th (01 43 54 47 77).

According to TimeOut London (March 20-27 edition), Pierre Gagnaire has certain supervisory responsibilities with respect to Mourad Mazoz's new establishment, Sketch. It is to be located on Conduit St, with an expected debut around the end of May. This follows various indications re: Gagnaire's coming to London, as Andy previously reported. Regardless of what Gagnaire's involvement ends up being, what a coup for Mazoz (assuming the accuracy of the TimeOut report) ;)

An "10z Beef Burger, Cheese and Old Spot Bacon" was available at the "Second Floor" dining area of Smith's of Smithfield this past Tuesday night. (See "Rare UK Pig Breeds" thread, once the pre-crash data is reinstated) Despite the Old Spot bacon, I did not order the dish, and had an average meal. This was my first meal taken at Smith's. Consistent with Wilfrid's indications in a post under "St John", I have no plan to return. 1. Lucky Squid, Chili Jam & Chinese Brocoli -- This appetizer was not bad, with squid slices having been cut with criss-cross markings and stir-fried. There were Chinese connotations to this dish, which was appropriately accompanied by a thin sauce appearing to contain soy sauce (or a similar seasoning), chili, sugar, garlic and very limited amounts of ginger. The dining room staff member described nam jim paste (sic), palm sugar and galagal as having been utilized. Here's an excerpt on "lucky squid" from the chef's book, called "Relax. It's Only Food" (which I, of course, did not buy): "In the opening sequence of the wonderful Ang Lee film Eat Drink Man Woman, the old chef Mr. Chu is preparing one of his extraordinary elaborate Sunday lunches. In the middle of all the steaming and hanging of ducks and deep-frying of pork, he scores a sheet of pearly squid on a wooden block, using his cleaver in close lines with devastating speed and accuracy -- chok, chok, chok . . . It's all over in a minute, but it is beautiful to watch. That scene changed forever the way I prepare the squid for this dish [with a different sauce than I sampled]. I used to make the diagonal cuts quite far apart, but old Mr. Chu's technique of fine criss-crossing helps the pieces of squid to curl themselves up quite dramatically, like little fir cones, when they are put into sizzling oil. In Thailand, when the squid curls like that, it is supposed to be lucky". 2. Crisp Belly of Pork, Mashed Potatoes and Green Sauce -- The predominant portion of the pork was tough and dense. There was no meaningful section that had the softness and comfort I associate with pork belly. Fattiness, critical to the effect of pork belly, was missing from much of the pork. A pesto- or "salsa verde"-like paste (with, among other things, pine nuts, parsley, mint, basil and olive oil) had been added to the crackling attached to the pork. The crackling was crunchy and abundant, but slightly more "burnt" than I deem appropriate. The pork was presented on top of a large serving of mediocre mashed potatoes, which in turn were surrounded by a flavored olive oil. 3. Cassis Sorbet with Strawberries and Blackberries (off-menu item) -- The sorbet tasted artificial and harsh. I took in no more than a bite. I had the above with Viognier (3.95 pounds/glass). I would characterize this restaurant as British/Asian fusion, with certain traditional British dishes being served. For example, fusion-type appetizers included "Spiced Duck and Green Papaya Salad, Thai Herbs, Chilli Dressing" and "Chicken, Prawn and Coriander Spring Roll, Cucumber and Peanuts"; entrees of that type included "Five Spiced Duck, Pak Coy and Oyster Sauce" and "Marinated Lamb Rump, Butter Beans, Cumin and Lemon." John Torode is from Australia, and had stints in the UK at Sydney Street, Pont de la Tour, Quaglino's, Mezzo and Bluebird. The atmosphere, at least in the "Second Floor" dining area if not on the Top Floor, was noisy, lively and reflective of a predominantly young crowd (twenties?). The dining area was full on a Tuesday night. The service was appropriate for the restaurant's style, and dining room team members were able to meaningfully discuss dishes. Appetizers are generally 4.75 pounds; non-grilled entrees 10.50 pounds. Grilled items are 11.50 pounds; side orders of vegetables are extra. Desserts are 4 pounds, and included "Hot Waffles, Banana, Toffee and Double Cream". There are Daily Market Specials offered at 9.50 pounds, including pie (Monday -- Cottage Pie; Thursday -- Chicken, Leek and Mushroom Pie)!! The Friday special is another British dish -- Fish & Chips with Tartar Sauce. It's possible Daily Market Specials differ from week to week (?; Please call before relying on the described dishes) John Whiting -- Smith's offered organic chicken. The menu notes that it "endeavor to use organic or additive-free produce whenever possible", and named South Tofrey Farm as the restaurant's supplier of organic chicken. I was tempted to sample the "Breast of Chicken, Tarragon, Mustard and Champ Potatoes" entree, but chose pork (even though the latter was not of a rare breed) in view of my recent interest in breeds.

LML -- I don't think Blumenthal should get credit for dishes, if any, that are strongly predicated on Adria's. (Note I do not have a sufficient understanding of the two chef's cuisine to draw any conclusions regarding derivation.) So I'm with you on the appropriateness of chefs being accorded credit where credit is due, and the converse. However, for reasons I earlier mentioned about the sensitivities of a reviewer suggesting derivation and without looking at any particular factual scenario, I also believe that any derivation insinuations are to be approached with great caution by a reviewer (particularly a professional reviewer). That leaves the question of who would be vetting any derivation possibilities among chefs, particularly given that perhaps not 99.9%, but a predominant portion, of the dining public would not care about these issues. I wonder whether there are informal mechanisms within the chef community (whether regionally or internationally) that control one chef's ability to draw too much inspiration from another without losing some of his own reputation.

Jay -- I appreciated your post very much. If I were in your shoes (as a professional food writer providing a review other than on this board) and thought the dish of a chef might have been "inspired", shall we say, by that of another, I would not consider it appropriate to so suggest unless I had tasted both. The process of comparison is one that, as your post suggests, is to be taken with caution, for all the connotations that might result in readers' minds. I thought long and hard before suggesting that L'Orangerie's chef in LA might have sought inspiration from certain Parisian chefs in another thread. It's a serious point to make, despite the similarity of the themes in some of the dishes. Reflecting back, I am not entirely sure my "suggestions" were warranted. Even though I have eaten at all relevant restaurants, I had not taken in the precise dishes mentioned with respect to L'Orangerie. I have, in fact, considered editing out that post (but have not yet). In the future, I will not provide such suggestions absent having sampled each relevant dish and having put even greater thought into appropriateness considerations. :confused:

Steven -- Thanks for your encouragement. However, could one of the coordinators consider providing a lead post, if members are interested in the topic? Perhaps one could focus on the Ferdnand Point line or the Roux line, to make the task more manageable?? Or, if noone feels inclined to provide a lead post, I'll have to think about the topic for a while before posting

I'm grateful for, but don't feel deserving of, Steve Klc's kind words in this thread. But pursuit of chefs' "taking inspiration from other chefs' cuisine" would be most interesting to me. I do try and sample similar dishes at different restaurants (e.g., the chicken in half mourning dish at Boyer and L'Ambroisie and hopefully, at some later point, La Mere Brazier, and the oysters in a gelee of seawater dish in France at Meneau at L'Esperance, Vezelay-Saint Pere; Dutournier at Carre des Feuillants, Paris; Guy Savoy at namesake restaurant, Paris; Jean-Michel Lorain at La Cote Saint-Jacques, Joigny). See "What are vegetarians missing" in "General" (long post); "Guy Savoy" in "France". I wonder who among the listed French chefs came up with the idea of using the jus/water inside an oyster to construct an accompanying gelee? (It might well have been Meneau or Lorain). I enjoy both the "pure" comparison of the taste of similar dishes, and considering the question of how the dish of each chef "came about". I collect books on French restaurants in France, including out-of-print books, and look over their menus too. I am also interested in evaluating for myself how a chef who has trained under another (as sous-chef, head pastry chef or another meaningful position) might have his style influenced by the teacher. That is a thread I have from time to time thought about starting (e.g., Gagnaire, Trama/Pourcels; Michel Roux/Koffman; Koffman/Demeter at Putney Bridge; Robuchon/Bouley; Marco Pierre White/Novelli -- was Novelli ever MPW's sous-chef? similar questions for Bouley), but I do not feel equipped to provide an initiating post. :confused:

John Whiting -- The ortolan is, I think, prohibited in the UK, France and Monaco. It might not be prohibited in the US (??), but it presumably might be hard to transport there. As indicated in my post on ortolans somewhere on this board, Ducasse has transported them into the US using a document envelope. I also think the deceased Palladin had somehow served them at one prior point in time. Woodcock is prohibited in France and Monaco, but not in the UK. Hence, the reputable establishments where one can find it when it is in season. Adam -- I agree, with respect to your observations on grouse vs. pheasant. I have only had red grouse, but that grouse (at least the three or four times I have had it) was considerably more flavorful (especially on the nose) than pheasant. The level of distinctivenes (i.e., difference from other game) was also higher for grouse, in my mind. Have you tried horse, zebra or antelope? I am thinking about going to Archipelago in the next several weeks to try some variety of antelope. It's listed in Michelin (at least when it used to operate as the Birdcage), so it is likely a decently reliable establishment.

Much like your beloved Heston Blumenthal on the Caterer jaunt to El Bulli. Andy -- Would it be safe to assume that one has to be a food professional (writer, chef, etc.) to be included in the Caterer visits? Have you heard of interested non-professionals gaining a spot on those trips? Everybody -- Do members have any updates on the French Laundry outpost that is supposed to be appearing in NYC? How is T. Keller expected to allocate his time between the two coasts, for example?

Union Square Cafe sometimes had Lemon Meringue Pie, although the banana caramel tart (with macadamia nuts, at some point in time) would be preferable for me. http://www.toprestaurants.com/ny/unionsquare.htm (older sample menu which also includes "Baked Lobster 'Shepard Pie' with Mashed Potatoes, Spinach, Carrots and Lobster Sauce") http://www.cookwithaloha.com/union_square_cafe.htm (also mentions lobster shepard pie) Smith & Wollensky sometimes has pie; I would imagine other steakhouses would have a greater chance of having pie as well. http://www.smithandwollensky.com/grill_menu.htm (mentions Bourbon Pecan Pie for NYC location) http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/Afici...avel/rc693.html (mentions hot deep-dish apple pie)

John Whiting -- My post has been updated to reflect a response to Andy now. On woodcock, the Writers Guild meal you describe sounds interesting. I am interested in sampling it further. See "White Truffles; Woodcock" in this forum (it's an older thread). It is the most interesting birdie I have tasted, but the ultimate prize of a certain Mitterand-related birdie has been evasive. Was there talk of the ortolan at the Writers Guild? I presume that item is not illegal in the US?

Wilfrid -- I had dinner at the bar area of St John last night. The manager confirmed that there were no more squirrels, and also that those rodents had been sourced from Babbington and another vendor without shooting (using boxes placed in trees). I know this may be too late for you, but asked to look at the menu for the restaurant. The interesting items included appetizers of (1) duck neck and green beans (6.30), and (2) cured beef and celeriac (7.80). Entrees in the restaurant included (1) steak pie, for two (28.00), (2) chitterlings and lentils (12.40), (3) ox tongue, beetroot and pickled walnut (13.50), and (4) rabbit, bacon and prunes (14.40). Back to my meal, which was below-average relative to other meals taken at St John (in no small part due to my haphazard ordering of dishes, in hindsight). With a glass of white Burgundy and a glass of cool, hoppy-tasting Brittany cider, the meal came to 31 pounds. -- 3 Irish oysters -- Boiled egg and celery salt: The egg was not particularly tasty, and the celery salt was also average. -- Anchovy toast: I had expected the anchovies to be placed whole on the large piece of toast, but only anchovy paste was utilized. -- Pork loin in a green sauce: This dish was impressive, including due to its simplicity. The pork loin was presented thinly sliced and at room temperature, but markedly tender and natural in taste. Appropriate amounts of fat and gelantinous material clung shyly to the meat. I also enjoyed the green sauce. The recipe for the sauce is included in Henderson's book, and includes parsley (curly and flat-leafed), mint, dill, tarragon, chopped anchovies, garlic, capers, crushed black peppers and extra virgin olive oil. The garlic and parsley flavors were appropriately in the foreground of the sauce, which contained enough oil to enhance the pork loin. -- Brown bread ice cream: I sampled this traditional British item for the first time. According to one of the bar service team members, breadcrumbs and sugar are combined and baked, and then mixed with other ingredients to form this dessert. The crumbs were slightly crunchy, but well balanced with a dense cream-like material that, for me, resembled butter (sweetened) more than typical ice cream both in texture and taste. I enjoyed this dish too. Andy -- I am not sure that St John has a studied casualness any more than any restaurant has (or at least should have) goals with respect to its cuisine, service, decor etc. that should be internally consistent. The casualness is appropriate for Henderson's ingredients-driven cuisine and generally simply-prepared (in a good way) cuisine as well. Note I don't mind Michelin aspiring restaurants, so long as their cuisine renders their goal realistic. It's the Michelin aspiring restaurants lacking a cuisine that allows possible attainment of their goal that amuse me.

Not that we care about what actors and actresses eat, but the January 21, 2002 edition of US Weekly (a magazine like People) contains an article on the food on which they pigged out during the holidays. Meg Ryan's indulgence is pies. She notes: "Pies. I make pies. I love pies. I love pecan pie, apple pie, cherry pie." Liv Tyler notes: "I love everything. I love pie. I love mashed potatoes and gravy. There's nothing during the holidays that I don't like."

Wilfrid -- Club Gascon (a la Steve P) is within 2 minutes by car from St John. It's not new within your definition, so you've probably been (and might even have posted about it?)It would be much better than Clerkenwell Dining Room, which I visited twice recently (see thread by same name). I think sticking with St John (even without the squirrels) or choosing Club Gascon would be preferable to Clerkenwell. On the metro/Tube, I was trying to be helpful to non-UK members who, unlike yourself, have not previously lived in the UK. And yes, I take the Tube, although not necessarily to restaurants when it gets late and I am wearing shoes that are difficult to walk in. Have to sign off soon -- La Tante Claire beckons. Koffman's supposed to have a good pied de cochon, if I recollect properly. :confused:

Wilfrid -- If you're interested in rare meats, as you may know, circeplum and I have been discussing Sprinbok Cafe (in Chiswick, which is not too far away from Central London -- it's in the same general vicinity as La Trompette, and accessible apparently using some type of public transportation like the metro/Tube?). See "Cobra and Chocolate Scorpions?" in this forum. Sprinbok offers certain meats with names I do not even recognize (from Africa, among other places), and seems to be at the St John price level. I have not eaten at Sprinbok, but circeplum had nice things to report on the antelope. Given your limited time in London, however, Sprinbok might be a bad choice, as you might want to sample a more "discussed" restaurant? If you would like, several days before you arrive in London I could go to St John and pick up their then current menu (changes are rapid) and post the contents on the board. Then, you can decide whether St John or some other restaurant might be appropriate. It's not an inconvenience at all, as I'd just have a taxi stop by that restaurant on my way to dinner. As for the St John squirrels (it's like saying the last truffles or asparagus of the season, a bit whimsical ), I'd try for them myself if I didn't have reservations at La Tante Claire. PS: What did you think of the poems I wrote?

Geoduck is on the sample menu on Le Bernardin's web site (an appetizer of "Thinly Sliced Geoduck Clam Simply Marinated with Wasabi-Lime Dressing"). Have members sampled geoduck at Le Bernardin or Citarella?

Beard's recipe, which utilizes broth, follows: "First make a strong rich broth with bones, meat, vegetables and good seasoning. Lower the beef into this and cook it at high heat for a few minutes, then simmer it until it is delightfully rare on the inside and just colored by the broth on the outside. The cooking time is the same as for roasting a filet: about 25 minutes for a good-sized whole filet and about 8 to 10 minutes for individual ones."

James Beard includes a recipe for boeuf a la ficelle in "Delights and Prejudices". He begins with comments on the cut of beef: "If you want to try a particularly delicious recipe, order a boneless sirloin and have it tied well with very little fat and no barding. This is the cut for a famous dish -- boeuf a la ficelle. You may use a whole filet or individual filet steaks or a fine piece of sirloin. The beef should be tied separately and, as indicated by the name, there must be a long string attached to the meat for lifting it from the pot in which it cooks. There must be some type of hanger above the stove as well, for the piece of beef must be suspended by the string in a large container of broth to cook to the degree of rareness you prefer." Beard concludes with suggestions on serving: "Serve this deliciously different dish with coarse salt, boiled potatoes, with or without some of the broth, and mustard or horseradish if you wish. Served with mustard sauce, anchovy butter or bearnaise [yum!], it's a splendid treat and one that confounds all people who claim they dislike boiled beef. Try it with a good Chateauneuf du Pape or Hermitage."

Even if you ignore tutti-frutti's request, what is a troll? And what is flame-baiting?