cabrales

Steve P & ajay -- Perhaps certain of ajay's meals did not suit him, in a sense of subjective match. That does not equate to saying that a mediocre meal was provided, obviously. Take Holly's experiences at Ferme de Mon Pere, and mine. Or Steve's and my take on Gagnaire. Or Fat Guy's take on ADNY versus my own (I'm willing to further consider on that one). When I dine, I don't expect amazing meals (in terms of suitability for me) at most restaurants, and I usually don't get meals with which I am subjectively entralled (with certain rare exceptions). But I also believe the restaurants are probably performing at a pretty high level for me, and are making efforts. The substantive outcome of failing to experience a truly fulfilling meal (in hindsight) at most establishments does not leave me not wanting to (1) try out places to which I have never been, (2) continuing to seek out restaurants that have a greater likelihood of meeting my subjective criteria, (3) enjoy any positive aspects of a dining experience, and (4) evaluate the negative aspects thereof. I wouldn't say that 2/3 of top restaurants are mediocre, but I would say that top restaurants in France (except for a select handful) are not very fulfilling for me once I've visited them for two times or so. Perhaps, after some years, I will visit a restaurant again. Or if it's along the way to a restaurant in which I remain interested, I would revisit. If I had to choose between (1) a week of inexpensive meals (I think I would choose eggs in all their forms (once I gain some basic cooking capabilities), Campbell's Soup or some nice blue cheese and crusty bread -- all of which I take in anyhow) and a single meal at a place I adore, and (2) fourteen not-so-great meals, I would choose the former. Hopefully, the day I'll have to make such choices will not arrive. But I do engage in trade-offs on the dimension of time. For example, I might have a choice between 3 good meals in City A, or incurring the travel time/fatigue to take a single entralling meal in City B and taking the remaining 2 meals in transit or quickly (to maximize rest or to permit work on which I have fallen behind while traveling). I have made this choice countless times, and it is to always choose the latter (the single great meal). Traveling to another city, even within Europe, is tiring. I try to get rest on trains, and often succeed. It is not unusual for me to take 3-5 hour train rides one-way in search of a meal, and I might do that more than once during a weekend (i.e., go to City B, then City C in France).

Steve P -- Do you tend to ask for special dishes by name at restaurants, even if they are not on the menu? How else have you used information from a review?

Following the earlier work-induced cancellation of my trip to Cancale, I secured reservations for a table for two for (1) dinner on Saturday, April 20, and (2) lunch on Snday, April 21. I have serious doubts I will be able to get to Cancale, and would be happy to transfer the restaurant reservations to interested members. These reservations are difficult to come by, to my understanding. Unfortunately, all Roellinger-owned rooms were booked up for the night of Saturday. However, Cancale has a number of less luxurious hotels/motels.

Leaving aside for now the "sharing" of ideas by cuisiniers who move among different kitchens, there is an aspect of arguable "copying" that is quite intriguing. There are indeed situations when a chef might view his ideas as having been misappropriated by his pupil. For an example, look no further than London's own Marco Pierre White, who trained under, among others, Pierre Koffman of La Tante Claire. "In his unauthorised biography of White, Charles Hennessy writes: ‘Pierre Koffmann says, 'Marco only came to steal my recipes. But he's one of the best chefs I ever had . . . .' White's defence is straightforward. ‘The best pupils go to the best teachers,’ he says. ‘By definition, things rub off. . . . But I also credit my sources. On my menu at the Oak Room I have Pied de Cochon Pierre Koffmann. At Drones, which will open in December, there is Creme Brulee Boxtree.’ . . . ." (The Guardian, November 24, 2000, "Waiter, there's a spy in my soup: One great recipe can make a chef's fortune - so it's hardly surprising that rivals will go to any lengths to steal it.", by Victoria Moore.) The master/pupil scenario is rather interesting, because, in some cases, the pupil is widely known to have trained with the master and there are questions about whether that might mitigate the "copying" aspect. For example, Marc Veyrat/Edouard Loubet. Nobody has meaningfully contested that Loubet is copying Veyrat. Perhaps one might even see Veyrat liking Loubet's following his overarching principles of using local herbs, forgotten vegetables, unusual flowers, etc. Sometimes Loubet is even pictured wearing a black hat, not exactly as wide-brimmed as Veyrat's, but vaguely similar. One doesn't know what Veyrat thinks of Loubet. There has been much discussion on the board about use of Adria's techniques and/or ideas by other chefs. To what extent would members view certain followers of Adria as "copying" him?

The high turnover rate among members of the kitchen team, and the movement of individuals from one chef’s kitchen to another’s, appear to be a significant vehicle for transmitting “inspiration”. In many cases, it could be switches in jobs on the part of a cuisinier. In other cases, kitchens send an apprentice chef to another restaurant, with the expectation that the individual would return. An individual at Putney Bridge indicated to me that a chef had been assigned to Jardin des Sens, Montpellier, for a session during 2001, with the expectation of return. Chef Marchesi inventor of the ravioli aperto, was very vocal about its having been copied. Several 1996 articles describe Italian chef Gualtiero Marchesi’s support for copyrighting recipes. In October 1996, he spearheaded a conference at an Italian resort called “The Cook’s Signature: Copyright In the Kitchen”. He said: “‘One of my most famous creations is the raviolo aperto/open raviolo . A few years back I had a young chef who worked with me for a while. Then he went off to work for another great chef. And what do I find when I open that chef's latest book? A recipe for raviolo aperto! . . . . I should be credited as its creator." (The Independent,October 20, 1996, “Could your gazpacho be a pot of gold?; ...it could, if a group of angry chefs get their way”, by Oliver Swanton.)

I'd appreciate members' input on Wickaninnish Inn in Tofino, Vancouver Island. I've heard certain good things about the natural surroundings, but have not yet visited. http://www.relaischateaux.com/site....ninnish

I'd be interested in hearing about the use of banana leaves to wrap fish and other items. Is that utilized in Indian and/or other Asian cuisines? For those who have sampled a dish with banana leaf effects, what are the effects and are they pronounced?

Steve -- The examples you provide are of things that certain diners who know and who are not professional critics have some chance of getting. To the extent a professional alerts diners to these beneficial items in a review, that's great. I think what ajay might be saying is that there is special treatment, including possibly special dishes, to which only critics would have access, by reason of their potential to influence regular diners. To the extent that a critic describes a dish that is just not available to other diners, a diner's ability to use the information to get the same treatment is mooted. If Patricia Wells got special dishes from Robuchon, I doubt that a diner (even knowing what those dishes were) would have been able to demand them and get them prepared in the same way. Now, an unavailability of dishes wouldn't bother me, because I am interested in knowing of what a kitchen is capable. If a kitchen is capable, it has a chance of providing an "art" meal and I am interested in investigating it (even if the meal I receive is not the same as the critic's). ajay -- I have only sent food back at a two-star restaurant, Michel Rostang. Our dining party had ordered the all-truffle menu. One of the dishes ordered by some in the party was a foie gras galette, laced with artichokes in a work-intensive "checkerboard" motif. When this dish was tasted, it was discovered that the foie gras had spoiled, because it had a distinctive sour edge (that no verjus or similar ingredient could have replicated). The dining party members who tasted this initially were extremely knowledgeable with respect to food. I tasted a nibble, and agreed. We beckoned Rostang's blonde, stylish daughter to our table, handed her the two flawed dishes, and asked her to have the kitchen taste the foie gras. She returned a couple of minutes later, quite embarassed, and said that the dishes would be replaced with the alterantive item for that stage of the truffle tasting menu (it was artichoke soup with truffle and some non-Serrano Spanish ham). We handled the matter decisively, but without making too much commotion. Imagine our surprise when, two dishes later, we thought we discovered spoiled foie gras again in a sauce for a dish. We were shocked that, upon our alerting the kitchen that there were problems with foie gras, the kitchen had not tasted every item (including pre-made sauces) that included foie gras. This time, we said nothing because it would have likely been unduly embarassing for the restaurant. Service flaws peppered the meal, leaving the spoiled foie gras matter aside. At L'Ambroisie, I have been part of a dining party that did not send food back, but that complained about the overcooking of fish. I thought that the fish was overcooked, but did not complain. Another member of my dining party, who was quite young, motioned the maitre d' to our table and proceeded to indicate how disappointed he was with the cooking of the dish. The maitre d' listened, whisked the dishes away (we were done anyhow), and came back within 3-5 minutes. The kitchen sampled the fish and it had not been overdone, he informed us in a neutral voice. The other members of my dining party were so angry that they declined dessert and coffee. I insisted on a verbena infusion so that we would not be leaving too hastily, and tipped the maitre d' generously. Due to the tipping, I don't think I was tainted by this episode, from a future dining opportunity perspective.

Steve P -- I agree that it is appropriate (not necessary, but preferable) for a reviewer to experience a restaurant at its best. However, you suggest that the resulting review might empower you with information enabling you to get the restaurant to perform for you at the maximum level. How specifically have you used information in a review to that end? ajay -- Part of the reason that I find reviews describing maximum performance useful is that it might help me select restaurants to visit to determine, for myself, whether that restaurant is capable of rendering "art" experiences for me. Given the difficulty for almost every restaurant to even approach that level when it is performing at its max, a review based only on the "average" experience would not be irrelevant (it would be background information), but it wouldn't be particularly interesting (as Steve P has noted). Where my views differ from Steve's is on the role of a review based on max performance in enabling me to improve the restaurant's performance for me. For me, the max performance review helps me identify/confirm the restaurants I might choose to visit. However, once that is done, I am not sure how the contents of such a review would help eek out superior performance. For example, one could imagine Diner X seeking to impress upon a restaurant that he understands it by using observations on the chef's cuisine drawn from a review. That would appear to be a relatively futile execise because the review is public information, and regurgitation or massaging of information from the review would not be particularly interesting to the restaurant. I believe I frequently obtain maximum level (or close) performance from restaurants in France and the UK. Granted, almost all restaurants, even when they perform at their max, cannot achieve artistry. I'm not sure demanding max performance (unclear what "demanding" it means) is the best way to get it.

Placed in quotes below are excerpts from an April 10, 2002 NYT article ("A Chef Invents a Lobster Dish, And Pots Start Boiling All Over", by Florence Fabricant) on T Keller's "inspiring" other chefs. The article speaks to Keller's butter-poached lobster, the recipe for which was published in his 1999 book. The article raises interesting line-drawing questions. When does one focus on the resulting dish (butter poached lobster), and when on the technique that produced that result. And should culinary techniques under certain circumstances be claimed as being associated with a particular chef? For example, in the case of the butter-poached lobster, apparently an essential step in the Keller approach is to have the lobsters very quickly blanched in the beginning, to foster the removal of the flesh from the shells. There are other steps in the recipe on which I, not being able to cook, do not feel equipped to elaborate. Apparently, one method of serving the butter-poached lobsters at French Laundry is with an accompaniment of leeks, a beet-type glaze and also a potato sheet. "Most chefs who have put butter-poached lobster on their menus, including Rick Moonen of Oceana in Manhattan and Michael Kramer of McCrady's in Charleston, S.C., readily credit Mr. Keller with creating the dish. 'I saw butter poaching in Thomas Keller's book,' said Gerry Hayden, the executive chef at Aureole in Manhattan, where he serves what he calls butter-braised lobster with either truffle coulis or a coconut curry broth. . . ." The NYT article then enumerates a number of butter-poached lobster dishes at other restaurants, although garnishings differ. For example: Oceana (asparagus flan); McCrady's in Charleston (with foie gras and poached pear), Charleston; La Folie, SF (with sweet white corn and leek ragout); Dream Dance casino in Milwaukee (with saffron risotto); Lure in NY. The article then proceeds to indicate: "Not every chef attributes the inspiration for butter poaching lobster to Mr. Keller. . . . David Walzog, who serves butter-poached Maine lobster with parsley couscous and a brandy lobster sauce at the Monkey Bar in Manhattan, said the idea came from his mentor, Alfred Portale of Gotham Bar and Grill, who he said taught him to use a butter bath for cooking vegetables. . . . Gordon Ramsay, the Michelin three- star chef in London, who also serves butter-poached lobster at Claridge's, offered the same confit comparison [of poaching in fat]. He said his source was Michel Bras, in France. But a certain amount of Kellerization still applies to his version, Mr. Ramsay acknowledged, because he exchanged chefs with Mr. Keller's restaurant a few years ago." When Keller comes up with a butter-poached lobster recipe, that recipe has associated with it a particular technique (in this case, blanching and slow poaching). While those techniques could be applied to numerous food products and, of course, are not properly attributable to Keller's recipe, at what points does the pairing of an ingredient with technique in an unusual way become identifable with a chef? The butter-poached lobster example is interesting for me because I did not previously know Keller originated this preparation. I have not eaten butter-poached lobster at French Laundry. It seemed like such an obvious pairing (and so naturally derived from lobster with liquid butter dipping sauce) that, had I eaten the butter-poached lobster at another restaurant, I would not have thought particularly hard about the origins of the dish.

Do members have input on "good finds" on the Bouley wine list (i.e., (1) the bottles could in absolute terms be expensive or not, but the mark-up in percentage terms is relatively reasonable; or (2) the bottle is difficult to find)?

stefanyb -- What wine do you typically take, if any, e.g., by the glass, with particular cheese sandwiches? When you have a chance, please consider discussing whether Artisanal appears to have certain French cheeses difficult to find elsewhere in NYC. I assume it is still subject to the same import restrictions as other US establishments? In particular, what relatively "rare" French blues might Artisanal offer? Also, do members have input on Artisanal's fondue dishes?

There were still eccles cake when I left, because I didn't order dessert and had never tried the cake. I thought about ordering it, but decided against it to save room for dinner.

I had an average lunch, focusing on pork, at St John's bar area today. 2 Native oysters (4.00 pounds) Crispy Pig Skin (3.80) Middlewhite and Mustard Sandwich (4.80) Brittany Cider (1.70) The crispy pig skin dish had sounded promising, but was a disappointment. Its texture reminded me, for some reason, of spring onion pastry cakes offered at times within Shanghainese cuisine. The pig skin had been deep fried, but was slightly dry. The fat could, in places, be tasted, but it had a dried, solid feel to it. The Middlewhite sandwich was better, featuring overly fat-infused large slices of pork (yes, there can be such a thing, when 1/2 of the slices appeared composed of a white, dense fat). Watercress was nicely utilized, but there was excessive butter and perhaps slightly more Dijon mustard than appropriate. That being said, the sandwich was fairly good, with soft, thick bread and a nice taste to the less fatty areas of the pork.

PaulaJ -- If you don't mind my asking, what is the price of the program (please specify the number of days) that would be refunded to you?

magnolia -- Sorry, the reservation has since been cancelled. I try to be good about not leaving restaurants with unoccupied tables, sometimes to my own detriment. The Hiramatsu menu degustation currently has the same dishes I described in the pre-crash Hiramatsu thread (amuses, John Dory ravioli, nice foie gras/leek/consomme dish, bass, venison). I heard it so described last weekend. They might be changing the menu in 2-3 weeks.

It has a cathedral, for which midnight mass on Christmas eve has been a ritual and which is visited by many. However, there is no direct train to my knowledge from Lyons to Vezelay (if memory serves me correctly), like there is to Roanne. If you are driving, Vezelay is also slightly further, although along a route between Lyons and Paris.

magnolia -- Beware of wine by the glass -- their prices are not listed on the wine list and I don't know how they would be priced at Hiramatsu. Perhaps you can order the "business lunch", if it remains available. I walked by Grand Vefour the other day, and their special lunch menu was 71 euros or thereabouts, and looked relatively promising.

macrosan -- I wouldn't agree that culinary artistry shouldn't (or can't) have connotations of quality. It can't be the case that mediocre or even very good, but not illuminating, cuisine (subjectively evaluated, to be clear) should be considered art. My views here are consistent with the different ways in which I have previously indicated (in "Chef of the Century") I believe cuisine could, under rare circumstances, constitute art. The concept of "cuisine as art" that you propose (emphasizing inventiveness, but devoid of qualitative standards) would arguably lead to a more "objective" notion of when cuisine is art than my diner-subjective approach (assuming, unrealistically, that inventiveness could be readily ascertained in a dish).

macrosan -- For me, the hallmark of artistry is not the mere invention of something that has not quite been previously. I believe that extremely few chefs are capable of producing artistry (even on occasion, let alone relatively consistently). With all due respect, in my mind, almost all chefs who create new recipes would not be creating art for their diners. Moreover, for me, artistry tends to ripen over the course of a meal (even though there has been, for me, a single dish has been so numbingly pleasure-inducing it has "carried" meals to an artistic level). It is partly the feeling of resonance I subjectively experience when subtlety is twinkling in the midst of fulfilling flavors.

blind lemon higgins -- For certain prior discussion on the question of whether cuisine can constitute art, see "Chef of the Century" under "General".

An older (February 2001) article in L'Hôtellerie contains an interview with Derek Brown. The following is a very rough translation of selected excerpts: Q: One senses at Michelin a concern about openness and communication. Is that a deliberate effort and a way of marking your arrival? A: That reflects our new image. The world is more open, more transparent. There is therefore a need on our part to explain ourselves to our clients so that they better understand. That’s my responsibility. We don’t have anything to hide: our goals are very clear and our system is very transparent. . . . Q: But could transparency reach the point where hotels and restaurants have a “formula” to be featured in the Red Guide, which is very important for them? A: I am very alert to our responsibilities vis-a-vis professionals, but our first responsibility remains with our readers, those who buy the guide. We are not consultants for the industry and it appears, to me, impossible to advise in the first instance, and judge thereafter. The guide is one for the readers; the stars are their stars. I believe that, despite everything, we also the support of professionals who also have confidence in our goals. Q: If one believes certain testimonials, you have never been loquacious to explain [to professionals], for example, the reasons for the loss of a star .... A: Before asking us that question, they have to ask that question of themselves. Do they have an idea on that point? That moment of reflection is very important. We receive many reader letters and that’s very important, but the judgments remains ours. It’s true that we don’t give instructions or a “formula”, but I think that those who are interested have themselves received clients’ comments. Our role isn’t to explain to a professional how to conduct his business. We don’t feel we have the right, but we apply our knowledge for the benefit of our cients. Q: You know the importance of a star for the entire industry. Certain people ask themselves whether it is possible to garner a star if they do not have a luxurious facility. A: Insofar as clients accept it, the absence of luxury isn’t penalized. Of course, since paper tablecloths, things have evolved, but we do not give out stars for sumptuous facilities. There are lots of examples in the guide. It’s inappropriate to pretend that we urge that and I’m hearing that idea dissipate. Very often, and depending on the needs of clients, it’s true that restauranteurs invest once they have obtained 1, 2 or 3 stars. They also want to work under nice conditions. For us, the star is on the plate. One star is somebody who has mastered his area technically and who, in his category, leaves the realm of the ordinary. This could be a little bistro more looked after than others. Everybody can dream of that. Q: Certain cities or regions are already well provided-for. Does that not inherently limit ambitions? A: Not at all; this idea must be abandoned. The award of stars is something natural, but not automatic, because we do not find every year people who have the talent and the dedication to achieve or maintain 1, 2 or 3 stars. At the level of 3 stars, we only have 22 in France, but there’s no reason to adhere to that: If we found five restaurants to whom to give [3 stars], we would give it to them. . . ."

Ledoyen was reportedly the site of the French Michelin Red Guide's first-ever press conference (February 26, 2002). A March 31, 2002 article in AP Worldstream ("For French chefs, the answer to success is in the stars _ Michelin stars", by Jocelyn Gecker) observes: "[A]t Ledoyen, the phones have been ringing nonstop for the past month . . . . 'Since getting our third star we have pages and pages of reservations,' said Le Squer, 39. Tables are now booking up through June at Ledoyen . . . . 'It's like a wonderful gift from the heavens.'." (Previous estimates for the receipt of a third star had indicated business might increase by 30% at a given restaurant) Separately, when the French channel Gourmet TV was launched on March 19, 2002, Derek Brown indicated that *inspectors' average age is 36*! This is much younger than I had expected (I would have guessed 45-50). Apparently, apprentices are accepted generally in their late twenties, and generally travel initially with another inspector for the first six months on the road.

lizziee -- Thanks for your kind words. Unfortunately, I have never visited Bath's, Auberge de I'll, La Tour Rose, or Christian Tetedoie, and can not provide input on them. Auberge de I'Ill had been the subject of a planned trip to Strasbourg just this past Easter, but I cancelled at the last minute due to excessive restauranting in Paris for several preceding days. Just like I have not yet visited Westerman, Bras or Roellinger (all the subject of recent unexecuted plans). Are you contemplating including Troisgros in your trip, or perhaps L'Arnsbourg (which, as you know, is readily accessible from Strasbourg)? I am loyal to my favorite restaurants too, although my preferred restaurant is not open on weekends and I might venture out a bit.

lizziee -- If you'd like to edit your own posts, click on the "Edit" button near the upper right hand corner of the applicable post.