cabrales

edemuth -- The "cold food" problem is one I experience with greater frequency than I would like to admit. Even when I am dining alone, I like to eat a bit more slowly to meaningfully sample the item. My assessments of a dish are not immediate, and I like to also see what the aftertaste and the persistence of flavors are. When I am dining with others, the "eating/talking" point compounds the speed problems. Fish in particular can be a markedly different dish when eaten at the temperature intended than when eaten cold, at the end. :confused:

I wonder whether there's an entry in the Guiness Book of World Records on the lengthiest meal. That leads me to think about how, in certain cultures, the length of a meal can be hard to delineate if celebratory events sequenced one after another meld into one another. Is there this phenomenon with respect to, for example, wedding celebrations in certain Asian or related regions? I wonder how any such extended celebrations affect how slowly people eat.

Basildog -- How slow have some diners been, towards the extreme end of the range? Have you had problems with cooking times when "average speed" diners or fast-eaters are unexpectedly slow on a dish, or when "slow-eaters are even slower than you contemplated?

Malawry -- Not at all The reason I ask about how it's done is that I like to eat and I like to talk about the food *while*, as well as after, I eat. If there's a good way to talk and eat at the same time, I might consider doing it more.

Malawry -- That theory appears to be promising as a partial explanation of discrepancies in diners' eating speed, as is Simon's point regarding familial practices. In general, I do not talk while I eat. How would you talk while you're eating if you're chewing at the same time? Do you stop chewing but retain the relevant morsels of food in your mouth while you are talking? If I am having a conversation with a dining companion, I take significantly smaller bites/forkfuls so that I can be ready to speak as appropriate. I try not to engage people in substantive conversation for too long when a dish arrives, as the temperature changes from slow eating are undesirable. Most of what is said after a dish arrives and before it is removed would be observations about the dish or the wine. There is usually plenty of time after a dish is removed for other dialogue. Another theory I have been wondering about relates to differences in how "clean" diners leave the food on their plate. For example, if a diner is eating chicken, getting every bit of the meat (including that adjacent to the bone) involves greater effort as the larger chunks of meat become eaten and one has to go for more interesting areas. Also, with crab, I notice that some dining companions aren't interested in the wonderful material inside the shell or don't even make an effort to crack what are not insubstantial claws. That would save time. As would ignoring (for me, unimaginable) the material inside the head when one is eating lobster or langoustines. Finally, I have been thinking about how one's "capacity" (in the volume of food sense) affects eating speed. If a diner can't eat that much quantity-wise and leaves significant portions of a dish on the plate, that would speed things up.

I'd appreciate input from members who have recently visited any of the following Hong Kong restaurants: (1) Petrus Restaurant at the Shangri-La Hotel, Pacific Place, (2) Amigo in Happy Valley, and (3) Alibi.

Simon -- What's the Viet Ho like? I assume the menu includes soup noodle dishes with beef balls and thin beef slices. What's the spicing like in the soup?

Bux -- I appreciate that places like Gagnaire might be among the least receptive to additions to a tasting menu, and that, given the length of such menu, there is no real need for additional dishes. However, I also believe that there could have been points in the meal at which additional dishes could have been accomodated. Note the dining room staff member did not suggest another dish better suited to the progression of the meal and the dishes on the tasting menu. I find it difficult to imagine that there were no dishes on the a la carte menu that could have "fit in" at least adequately into the meal. But I understand your point, and note that the response I received at least confirmed the restaurant was not profit-driven with respect to our dining party

ajay -- RPerlow and likely Steven Shaw have provided considerable input on stone crab, including suppliers other than Joe's. The search function is not currently operational and I can't locate the thread(s). On editing a typo in the title of a thread, it's not possible to my knowledge.

Bux -- I'd be the first to admit that at least one of the five listed considerations applies aptly to me, but I'm not going to specify which.

Prompted by this thread, I had dinner at the Second Floor of SOS tonight. For me, the second meal yielded a conclusion identical to the first -- the Second Floor is not worth another visit, even though portions are generous and that dining area is not a bad value-for-money proposition. Of course, I have not dined in any other area of SOS and cannot provide input thereon. Below is what I ordered: Sourdough with grilled field mushrooms, eggs, parsley and shallot salad (Pounds 4.75) 10 oz Rib steak, chips and mustard mayonnaise (11.50) Apple pudding, custard (4.00) Glass of Moet & Chandon (6.75) Glass of Scrumpy Jack Cider, UK (2.75) Glass of Red Burgundy (5.25) The fried egg appetizer was average, with 1/2 of the yolk runny and the remainder of it solid. It was too bad the edges of the white portion were not a bit more crispy and interesting. The saucing was so-so, a bit of Dijon mustard with a sweet variation of pesto-like sauce and a faint hint of the mixture of acidity and limited sweetness (not in a good way) one finds in certain pickles. There were diced onions in the sauce as well. The Sourdough accompanying the fried egg lacked butter connotations and "soaking effects" from the sauce elements. The mushrooms included in the dish had a large capped portion and were not of a type that I prefer. They resembled almost porcini (of which I am not particularly appreciative) in taste, to a limited extent. I found the utilization of parsley in this dish helpful. Surprisingly, the fried egg was acceptable taken with the UK cider described above. Unhappily, the rib steak that I had ordered between rare and medium rare was overcooked (at more than medium rare). More significantly, the cut of the beef itself was not of a particularly high quality. The meat lacked a certain succulence, as well as fattiness, and had too many tendons in it. (On the Top Floor, it appears there are better cuts of beef.) I was advised that the beef was an unspecified cross-breed between Aberdeen and Angus, from an organic facility. The mustard sauce was appropriate. The fries that accompanied the steak were decent, being stubby and recently fried. There was also a bit of watercress, which I liked for its peppery connotations and its freshness. The apple pudding dessert was good. It was a wedge of almost cake-like material, with appropriately limited, small apple slices near the top of the cake. The cake had a strong cinammon taste (a bit more complex, like "pain epice"), and had a nice texture that was complemented by the custard-based sauce. Also, the dessert went well with my espresso. Another disappointing meal overall, though. The Second Floor was slightly less noisy than before, but the noise level remained too much for me. It was 75% full by 8 pm, almost full by 9 pm. The service remained rapid as I had requested. I noted the decor a bit more. The elevator leading upwards was decorated with beige padding, cast in reddish lights in some places -- not appealing with respect to execution. Some of the walls on the Second Floor were a dark reddish color, and the two key "art" pieces were off-white, one with curved lines shown. Selected other appetizers included: -- Richard Woodland's Ham, Pears and Watercress -- Pork and Prawn Dumplings in Coriander Broth -- Chicken Liver and Foie Gras Parfait, Toast and Onion Marmelade -- Peas and Mint Soup (tempted to sample this in view of La Trompette ordering by dining group) Selected main dishes included: -- Bream Fillet, Roast Fennel, Shallots, Herb Dressing -- Roast Cod, Caponata, Basil Aioli -- Grill: Calves Liver, Bacon Mash, Potato & Onion Gravy Whole Lemon Sole, Herb Butter Smiths 10 oz Burger with Old Spot Bacon The daily lunch specials (uncertain available during dinner?) were as described in my first post. I'd like to end with an excerpt from the chef's book, relating to eggs: "I think eggs are wonderful things, one of the most versatile ingredients in the world, though I can never quite forget the scene in the movie 'Angel Heart' in which the Lucifer character, played by Robert De Niro, declares that the egg is the symbol of the soul and devours it. American diners are the place for terric eggs . . . ."

Miss J -- Please do continue with the vivid detail, unless it's burdensome to you

blind lemon higgins -- I have eaten once at both Emeril's N.O. Fish House and Delmonico's in Vegas. That was enough to convince me I need never eat at an Emeril-affiliated restaurant again. My decisiveness in this regard should mitigate against the 2-day suspension and reduce it to 2 minutes, and those 2 minutes should be reduced to zero because, for the first time, I have been prompted by eGullet activity to visit a restaurant I had clearly determined to be unworthwhile after one visit -- the Second Floor of Smith's of Smithfield (see UK Forum, write-up to come). I chose that restaurant solely because there has been divergent dialogue on the board today, and I wanted to reduce the risk that my original assessment would inappropriately close off dining opportunites for, or otherwise mislead, members. The Fish House is worse than Delmonico's by a significant margin because more can go wrong with fish (e.g., unpleasant generally on the nose) in my mind. On the question of visiting bad places, a review of my posts on the UK board might confirm how my curiosity leads me to poor meals with some frequency (witness the peacock-and-reindeer fiasco at Archipelago).

I have wanted to eat more quickly only very rarely. For example, when I visited a teppanyaki restaurant in Canada that restricted to 1 hour the dining time for "all-you-can-eat" (during the hour) thin (like shabu shabu) slices of reportedly Alberta beef. These slices are extremely thin, and I like my beef medium rare or less. Hence, I was eating my slices more quickly than the chef was preparing them (as he had to serve other diners in our party). The Japanese pickles (oshinko plus 2-3 other varieties) were happily "all-you-can-eat" as well, and the restaurant seemed not be enforcing the 1-hour time limit on the pickles. The restaurant was quite nice about the time limit even with respect to the beef, but we couldn't be sure about that before the expiration of the 1 hour and the beef was tasty. "Alberta Beef" under "Canada". ("The deal is that you have about an hour to eat as much as you can of paper-thin beef slices wrapped around diced fried garlic and spring onions and cooked in front of you on a steel surface to order.")

Charlene -- As you may know, fellow member basildog has a restaurant in Padstow too. See "Food 101" under "United Kingdom and Ireland".

Matthew -- If you're comfortable responding, have you maintained the shaved look since, and why couldn't you have merely cut your hair shorter to avoid having it fall into your food?

blind lemon higgins -- Admittedly, Vegas is horridly artificial and commercialized, but Picasso is a good restaurant and, for me, markedly better than others in that city. It's handled by the same group as Masa's, in San Francisco (a generally well-respected restaurant that is not among my preferred facilities in SF). The other place that is good is Nobu Vegas. I never tried Palladin's (RIP) place in Vegas, unfortunately. Emerils has at least 2 places around Vegas -- Emeril's New Orleans Fish House (terrible) at the MGM hotel/casino, and a steakhouse called Delmonico (bad) at the Venetian hotel/casino. Vegas is quite ablaze with spin-offs from various restaurants all over the US. http://www.emerils.com/restaurants/delmonicolv/ Do members have input on Aqua, Vegas (yes, from SF as well)?

Alain Senderens' Lucas-Carton in Paris has wine by the glass paired with each dish. The chef engages in extensive research on the pairings. He also has a degustation menu, which can be taken with or without wine pairings (the latter is not inexpensive). I have tended to sample the chef's pairings. I can't say that Lucas-Carton is a restaurant that suits my tastes particularly well, though. At Lucas-Carton, the wine was refilled for me after it was depleted. I felt the restaurant was being generous with the paired wines. In some cases, I drank 2-3 glasses with a single dish (not deliberately, but the sommelier kept on refilling my glass). Note I have never had the Canard (Duck) Apicius, and have wanted to try that (in two servings) with Banyuls. Here's an article Patricia Wells (also not my favorite critic, BTW) wrote on one example of Senderens' wine pairings, in this case to celebrate 100 years of Michelin with other three-star chefs: http://www.lucascarton.com/page-une-annee1-us.htm And here's an indicative menu, with wine pairings: http://www.lucascarton.com/page-carte-entrees-us.htm I liked my two meals at Picasso, in Las Vegas (Bellagio Hotel), considerably. The degustation comes with wine pairings (total price not inexpensive), and the decor is wonderfully vibrant and yet stylish. (It helps to have multiple Picasso paintings and ceramics from such artist.) For me, the restaurant was better than, for example, Aureole Las Vegas (incl. Swan Court section) and Renoir (which has less art work and less interesting food). The wine pairings at Picasso were of average size when I went. I did not drink enough to test the "refills" hypothesis. http://www.bellagio.com/pages/din_picasso.asp# (limited information) While not my preferred place to stay, the Bellagio has Cirque de Soleil performances of "O" (including interpretative synchronized swimming) that are worthwhile, in addition to Cirque's Mystere at the Mirage (all not inexpensive for non-comp'd guests). I am even thinking of going to see the other permanent Cirque performance in Florida sometime, as well as to explore the cheesey Paul Bocuse "restaurant" within the Orlando theme parks.

Simon -- If you are comfortable responding, can it be inferred that your parents (even though obssessed with food) tended to part with goodies for the benefit of the children, or could there even have been competition between a child and a parent?

Simon -- Can taking food from dining companions' plates without their assistance be done at restaurants without drawing too much attention, and, if so, how in your case and how familiar with people would you have to be to make such an attempt? Also, could eating quickly detract from the ability to ponder on flavors and other aspects of food items?

In "Delights and Prejudices", James Beard described beer as matching a spit-roasted pork dish: "Pork is a meat much neglected for the spit. But if one has two loins of pork boned and tied together, rubs them well with thyme and salt and pepper and spits them, cooking them slowly and basting with a little melted pork fat blended with a touch of Dijon mustard, the resulting meat will prove sensationally good. Serve with a 'sauce Robert' or merely a mustard sauce; apples sauteed until crisp and buttery; and fresh cabbage sauteed with champagne or white wine. Drink *beer* along with this, or champagne, and you will have a meal that is a masterpiece." At St John, I have had Brittany cider with fairly hoppy overtones with several pork dishes; it worked. See"Son of St John" under UK.

Matthew -- That the Waterside Inn has a strong dessert offering is apparently shared by many. As recounted in "Life Is a Menu", the Queen was originally going to WI for some "significant" prior birthday. However, the press got wind of this, and the venue was moved to some royal facility (apologies I don't have the book with me right now). As the distance from the kitchen to the dining room there was more significant, Roux could not make souffles for everybody, but nonetheless served one to the Queen and another to some other significant royal. Also, the MOF that Roux won is with respect to patisserie. I'm not a big fan of dessert, and prefer RHR's desserts to Roux's. That being said, I may be in the minority on this point. Have you sampled the platter of Roux desserts called "Péché gourmand selon 'Michel' (A selection of six mouth-watering desserts of Michel Roux)"? I have not. BTW, have members heard of any chef involvement in the upcoming Queen's birthday celebrations this year?

Matthew -- It is a nice place for lunch, because apertifs can be taken (weather permitting) in the back of the restaurant along the waterfront (literally -- some tables intended for aperatifs are just next to the Thames), or at an intermediate level (i.e., the level of the giant overarching tree) close to it. Also interesting (especially in the wintertime) are two little private "huts" (one is along the waterfront, the other is on the same side, but further back and quite close to the side of the restaurant area) where one can have aperatifs. These are heated in the wintertime, and are quite colorfully decorated. The alternative place for any aperatifs not taken at the table is the entryway to the restaurant/hotel (or an adjacent little room which has the door leading up to the bedrooms), where there are lots of Roux momentos and where one finds two art pieces involving people holding actual musical instruments. Subjectively, RHR and La Tante Claire have better food than Waterside Inn, but the latter is worth a visit with enough time. The lobster with port wine dish is quite good, and is a signature. Also, for dessert fans, Waterside Inn might be a closer call relative to La Tante Claire than for others. Roux's souffles are generally considered worth sampling. I have only had the mirabelles (special type of plum) souffle, and it was not bad, but also not particularly memorable. I have had two excellent woodcock dishes at Waterside Inn, but obviously the visit prompting this thread would not be during game season. :confused:

In Louisiana, there is a local rodent called "nutria" (ragondin in French) that might be considered to have an unduly large population in the area, with potentially adverse environmental and other consequences (due to nutrias' feeding on green areas). The local authorities decided to promote the use of nutria in cuisine. http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflas...00/nf00201f.htm ("a joint campaign . . . called 'Save Our Wetlands -- Eat Louisiana Nutria.' . . . a competition called 'Cookin' Alive' in which five well known Louisiana chefs vied for trophies and cash prizes . . . (If you go to Mardi Gras, be sure to sample Chef Enola Prudhomme's Nutria Chili.)") http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/special/nutquest.htm ("What chefs are cooking nutria? . . . Paul Prudhomme, Enola Prudhomme, John Folse, Philippe Parola, and many others have prepared nutria. Nutria meat can be used in many ways including: sausage, chili, bar-b-que, pot roast, chicken fried, baked . . . .") http://www.h4.org/FunStuff/SwampRat/nutria.htm http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/special/recipes.htm (certain recipes) Have members sampled nutria?

I wonder if the same phenomenon of competition for food (or for the better dishes) might also be seen at certain boarding schools, prisons (the input to be received on this one is likely zero, but would be interesting) or other food-sharing communities. I imagine films' depiction of food in prison (e.g., last meal orders by death row inmates, kitchen canteen scenes and how "political" seating arrangements are, the stronger groups seeking to appropriate more food, use of cigarettes as currency, having certain "suppliers" of limited food from outside) might be a good start (given the absence of likely coverage by members). (Shawshank Redemption is one of my favorite films. ) Have any members worked as prison guards, policemen or INS agents responsible for potentially illegal immigrants? What sort of food do people in custody receive? Are they served with plastic forks and knives? At some buffets or salad bars that do not replenish with regularity, it's interesting to see how frequently diners "pile on". I wonder if people might eat more rapidly in view of their desire to "get their money's worth".