cabrales

Robert -- I agree. The wine list is both stronger (at least with respect to red wine) and better-priced than that at Loraine's, even though the sommelier at the latter restaurant is the chef's mother (and wife of the former chef). Have any member sampled the local wine produced by the elder Loraine? I saw it offered in the gift shop at Cote Saint-Jacques (quite inexpensive), but it does not appear to be particularly "known".

For members who speak French, below is a link to the official Michelin press release with respect to the 2002 Red Guide: http://www.viamichelin.com/viamich....202.pdf If members are interested in a translation of the commentary in the press release (including on the 2-star promotions), please let me know.

Robert is right that Loiseau may be a better choice because of the "cuisine of water". While I have had satisfying meals there, I wouldn't say that Loiseau's cuisine is particularly wonderful for me. It is a little more rooted in traditional flavors than, for example, Lorain's cuisine. Here is an excerpt from Loiseau's website, a quote from the LA Times: "If the culinary world has a King of Water, it would be Bernard Loiseau, chef-patron of the restaurant La Côte d'Or in the tiny Burgundian town of Saulieu. Monsieur Loiseau has coined the term 'La cuisine d'eau' (cuisine of water) to describe his cooking. His goal is food that is free of stocks and cream, base instead on H2O and the natural juices of meats and vegetables. I worked as an apprentice in Loiseau's restaurant. I saw creams and stocks being used there, though on a very limited basis, but Loiseau used water extensively for many purposes, chiefly for consistency." http://www.atkaliope.com/loiseau/pressBL.html The chicken Alexandre Dumaine of Loiseau referred to in an earlier post is depicted here: http://www.bernard-loiseau.com/uk/indexsommaire.htm (Pick, from the top left hand side, "The Restaurants" -- then pick "The chicken Alexandre Dumaine" -- this is quite intense tasting) Pan -- On what to say regarding your father, I was thinking that the reference to illness might impress upon the restaurant a bit more the seriousness of the restriction. A reference to health almost makes it seem like he might be cutting down on cholesterol. But maladie does refer to illness.

indiagirl -- I appreciated your log, and would be interested in hearing about developments, to the extent it's not burdensome for you to post on them. As for where you post, that's up to you of course. You mention that, in some dishes, your sampling of a dish results in your focusing on the main ingredient (meat, fish). When you consider meat dishes, note that, in some cases, accompanying sauces may have been constructed using meat-based stock. I like it when restaurants use "unexpected" meats in their saucing relative to the principal ingredient (this is not necessarily common in restaurants, though). For example, I have recently had fish with poultry jus at (1) Goumard, Paris (here, the turbot was cooked in a cocotte with poultry jus), and (2) The Capital, London (a filet of sole with a parsley/breadcrumb top, asparagus, peas, broad beans and a poultry jus). Another example is a meal at Pic, Valence (a scrambled egg dish with morels, serrano ham and pigeon jus). However, please don't feel like you have to pay attention to these things, or even the saucing, at this point.

Basildog -- When you have a chance, could you please discuss whether eGullet has prompted you to think about ingredients, flavor combinations, etc. that have ended up in, or influenced, a dish served at your restaurant?

I had dinner at St John again tonight. Due to the limited attractiveness of other main dishes, I ordered the Por Roast Old Spot Belly & Prunes. This was as previously described, with a bit too much saltiness. The Macon-Fuisse, 2000, La Solutre (Pounds 5.50/glass) was not a good match for the OS. The OS main course was preceded by (1) 2 oysters, and (2) one gulls' egg (2.70). The egg was noticeably smaller than hen's egg, but noticeably larger than quail's egg. It had a medium grey outer shell that was speckled with brown areas and that had slight olive overtones. The egg was served boiled, with a harsh celery salt. The white occupied a smaller percentage of the volume within the gull's egg than in a hen's egg, and the yolk was an orange-yellow color and a bit richer. Not a bad opportunity to taste this item, although it would have been better prepared in a way other than boiled. I also tried Eccles cake for the first time. With Lancashire cheese (?), it is charged out at Pounds 5-7 in the main dining room. It sold for 1.20/cake from the bar, for take-out. The puff pastry forming the outside of the cake was well-made, as was the filling of plentiful raisins mixed in with brown sugar (molasses-like almost) and various spices. While the cake was good, it taste resembled christmas cake and were a bit too intense for me. However, I can see how it could appeal if one liked christmas cake. Other dishes on the restaurant's menu included (1) Pigs' tongues, potato and green sauce (Pounds 13.50), (2) Duck neck and green beans (6.30), (3) Foie gras (appetizer 8.80, main, with turnips, 15.00), (4) Duck leg and red cabbage (12.80) and (5) Roast sea bass, lentils and broad beans (31.80 for 2 persons).

Degustation -- A belated welcome to eGullet (Also, nice Avatar, if I may say so ) If you're comfortable discussing it, what does your dad presently think of your cooking, and you of his? Do you cook together sometimes, or is that tiring for him?

Varmint -- Your story is so nice. You had truffles and foie gras for the first time during the same meal? That must have both thrilling and confusing. Sometimes, in the case of a special restaurant, I feel like some of the products I take there (even though I have consumed the product many times before) are so ravishing in the restaurant's hands that it is as though I were almost sampling the "real" product for the first time. I wouldn't trade those moments for very many things. On the benefits your cooking brought to your social life, how did your female friends know you were a good cook? Would you cook for groups of platonic friends that included women, for example? Also, do you remember still at least a few of the dishes you made that impressed your wife?

Helena -- That's very kind of you, but it sounds like a short drive that a taxi could provide. Perhaps we can sample the Herme patisseries together at an eGullet event!

Steve Klc -- Or, due to the wonderful "portable" nature of Herme's patisseries, for a future eGullet get-together of NY members, any NJ members attending and living close to a relevant Wegmans could pick up patisseries for the group. Depending on the restaurant chosen by the NY group, it may be possible to sample the patisseries at the restaurant or not.

Steve Klc -- What's the most efficient set of public transportation options to get to the Wegman's, Princeton store, and is it the store with Herme pastries that is closest to Manhattan?

Steve Klc -- I can see how perhaps on average patisserie is not sufficiently appreciated. However, do you find that, among your clientele (who presumably seek you out) you have comparable problems?

TheBoatMan -- Have you eaten the pastries yet? If so, please consider posting about your perceptions, including in the event, of course, that you don't like them as much as Steve Klc and I do

I'd be interested in hearing particularly about how professional cuisiniers learned how to cook (e.g., Basildog, Steve Klc, Patrice)? Are there any other members out there who are as culinarily challenged as I (at least currently) am? :confused:

Jinmyo -- Rupture = "Natural, uninstigated":wow:

John -- That is an extreme exercise because L'Astrance is, in my mind and leaving aside price, one of the best restaurants in the world. And the other restaurants with its caliber of cuisine are very rare and they are all three-starred Michelin with prices to match. So, leaving aside such heightened levels of cuisine, for Pounds 88, you could have a decent lunch at many London places, with wine and service, and come out with pounds to spare. Or you could have a menu degustation for dinner, and drink very, very carefully and sparingly and drink wine by the glass at certain restaurants in London.

Francesco -- Welcome to eGullet and thank you for using your first post to provide insight on the Italian representative. I also enjoyed your description of the pig dish. I recently asked Wilfrid about dishes that "deconstruct" animals. This is an area in which I am interested. Unfortunately, the search function is not operating right now and I can't locate the short mention. Here is a pig dish that I *tried* to take in at Pied de Cochon bistro in Paris. Click here. You might know from reading the boards that Simon M, Steven Shaw (aka Fat Guy) and others are particularly interested in pig products. If you have the information readily available, are there other Italian dishes where different parts of an animal are used to create a dish?

Bux -- I do rely heavily on Michelin. Its lack of description (limited to 2-3 lines, heavy on comments about the decor) is not a problem for me because I will engage in additional research, as necessary, after having pinpointed a restaurant from Michelin. For new restaurants after the Red Guide has been released, I usually rely on French newspaper and magazine articles and Where Magazine (only for Paris; possibly other large cities?) My belief in Michelin means that, very generally, I am tempted not to eat at a Michelin one- or two-star if there is an available three-star in town or close by and I have not visited the latter. Of course, that balancing would change if I had already visited the latter. Michelin has a series of maps near the front of the book, showing what the maximum number of stars of any restaurant in a given town is. This is very helpful in planning itineraries. When I am plotting routes and determining the proximity of restaurants to one another, I also use the Relais Gourmand website (which contains maps, with little boxes for restaurants and also indicates, for each restaurant, the proximity to key adjacent cities with public transportation). At this stage, I also use the SNCF (the French train system) website, to determine whether a train is a possible means of transportation (important as driving after having taken int the alcohol I do is an impediment). The Michelin website's "driving distances/routes" feature is also very helpful. I usually look to G-M, eGullet, L'Hotellierie and other Web-based sites (not food discussion groups, more articles) to find out more about a given restaurant's cuisine. This post-identification stage would also be where I might consult other Guides (e.g., G-M, which contains more information about specific dishes; Pudlowski, whom I believe is a fairly good critic; even Patricia Wells, whom I do not find has a palate particularly in tune with my own). There are also regional guidebooks (e.g., Provence, Lyons). I also tap out-of-print French language books on French restaurants, to the extent the restaurant has a history in which I am interested. I also get interested in ingredients (e.g., Aubrac beef, sea urchins from certain French coastal areas, Menton lemons, Roquefort cheese), and will seek out restaurants that specialize in the preparation of those ingredients. For new restaurants, I look to where the chef might have been a sous-chef. For one or two restaurants I really like, I would already know what had happened to their sous-chefs and, of course, visit the spin-off restaurant. The same principle applies in reverse -- a new restaurant along the lines of Ducasse's cuisine is probably not going to become a high priority to-do item on my list. I have a very good sense of what French cuisine I like, and a review of sample menus on Websites or a bit of research helps me to further hone in on restaurants that are likely to be well-suited to me. I also have great curiosity about restaurants in France in general, and would want to visit most known places at least once at some point or another. Thuries is very expensive --- it is between 7 and 10 euros. The descriptions of the 3-4 chefs are quite detailed, however. I have generally not been tempted by Thuries articles. It's not a publication with which I have been particularly happy. On Bottin Gourmand, it's neither here nor there. I read it, but I agree that Michelin and G-M are better.

Steve Klc -- That is not like what I had. The caramel is not as tall, nor as round. And the chocolate sorbet was on top of the caramel. Also, there was no wafer/veil, as depicted on the linked page. Also, in the picture, there appears to be a bit of yellowish pastry-like thin item under the chocolate sorbet -- that was absent from the dish. Another explanation might be the existence of two similar desserts: "Salted Butter Caramel, roasted pistachios and peanuts, chocolate sorbet and cumin caramel" (what I had as part of the lunch menu and inspired by Roellinger; note no reference to "Delice of Chocolate" in the name, as the photo linked is annotated) VS "Delice chocolate, chocolate sorbet, cumin caramel" (see the tasting menu description in my original post; this seems to be the dessert picture, and, like the above dessert, has chocolate sorbet and cumin caramel; however, it has "Delice chocolate" instead of "Salted butter caramel, roasted pistachio and peanuts"). The linked page also offered a board called "molecular gastronomy discussion group", with three non-interesting threads.

Pan -- Your proposed language of request is fine. I might supplement it by emphasizing it's due to health considerations, to signal it's not just personal preference. "A cause d'un maladie, mon pere ne peut pas prendre des plats avec beaucoup de la graisse ou du beurre." (Because of an illness, my father cannot take in dishes with a lot of fat or butter) That should bring home how important your father's dietary constraints are.

cappers -- The bread was average. Only two varieties were offered; the dining room staff member referred to them as white and, likely, brown. The crust was a bit hard for my preference in this roll-like bread. I did not take cheese, and do not know if other bread varieties are available for that. On the brasserie, please provide input when you have a chance. Back to bread -- Have members been to the Poilane bakery in London? Note that La Fromaggerie was mentioned by the maitre d' at The Capital as being the best place for cheese in London. I have looked at the selections at Harrods and Selfridge's, and they were not too bad either. At Selfridge's over the weekend, I noted that they had various smoked fish (e.g., sturgeon, marlin (sic), swordfish). The person at the counter was nice enough to let me sample a couple of these -- average only.

Below are rough notes on my lunch at La Tour d'Argent a while ago: Huitres chaudes de Belon a la Brolatti (Hot Belon oysters, Brolatti style) Caneton Tour d'Argent (Duckling Tour d'Argent style) Beignets (donut-like desserts) Champagne, Tour d'Argent private label (Blanc de Blancs; there is also a rose version) Grands Echezeux, Gouroux or Garoux 1976 Verbena Infusion A glorious day for lunch at this restaurant -- the view is indeed impeccable against the powder blue/grey light, brimming with sunshine and initially muted. The banks of the river and the buildings down below appealed. While our table was not the closest to the window area, it was still in the lower, main part of the restaurant and was, in fact, subjectively preferable because it was next to the little platformed area where the blood duck was prepared in view of customers. That platformed area is in front of a large mural, which is featured on the numbered postcards (numbered for the duckling eaten at the restaurant) offered to customers (they can be mailed by the restaurant, or received after the meal). The duck press was, of course, prominent in this area, and apparently only one dining room staff member ever operated the press for any given service. An older duck press can be viewed in the bar/seating area that has a semi-museum function on the entry level. The oysters were mediocre -- the cheese-like sauce was starchy and mundane. More disturbingly, the temperature of the oysters was less than warm and this significantly diminished the dish. The oysters were also devoid of any iodine flavors. The duck was quite good, and satisfied my curiosity as one of those famous plates that I'd like to sample at least once. The first serving was in aiguilettes (thin-ish slices). The meat was tender and flavorful, and there was a dark greyish sauce (with only limited hints of maroon) that was granular (fine grains), and that had connotations of blood and inner organs only if one knew blood had been utilized in the dish. The main characteristic of this greyish sauce was its texture and a certain density/consistency. This was a very unusual preparation of duck, and the meat felt different in the mouth (due to having been passed through the duck press). The second service was nice. Grilled, two pieces of duck -- the upper thigh and another dark meat piece. Tender, flavorful, but with good utilization of the crispiness of the skin and the lusciousness of fat. On the side was a salad with a light vinaigrette and little potato cubes. The meat was simply prepared in this service. Brought to the table was salt (fleur de sel) with parsley bits and dried leeks -- the seasoning was necessary and was put to good use. The Grand Echezeux recommended by the sommelier was a decent match, although I should have adhered to my choice of an H Jayer Echezeux in hindsight. The bottle we did take had the interesting feature of having the look and color of blood -- a matte maroon that was a nice visual and cerebral play. The dessert was unfortunate. Although apple, banana and pineapple had been included in the various donuts (different shapes), the execution of the donuts themselves was very poor. Dense, thick batter was used, and an ugly mush of green apple puree was horrible. Overall, it was worthwhile to have visited La Tour d'Argent for the first time and to have sampled the blood duck made using the duck press there. I'm not eager to return, but there are certain restaurants that have to experienced at least once in view of their history and their reknown dishes. :confused:

magnolia -- Yes, on the H maitre d', I would say that his sense of the restaurant's being on the verge of greatness was genuine. During my second visit, I overheard him telling another diner that, when Pacaud started his own restaurant after working for Peyrot at Vivarois, he had very few "couverts" as well. A comparison to L'Ambroisie is hardly justified at this point. The maitre d' also likes to name-drop about celebrities that have eaten there, including other chefs. I think that's a sign of immaturity, although the outward presentation of this young maitre d' is quite mature. On citronella, I wouldn't be surprised if it had a non-food use. However, rest assured that I have eaten citronelle enough that I would be struck by now by any ill effects of it. I suspect the US and French Saveurs are linked. As you noted, the formats are incredibly similar, including with respect to the way the letters of the name of the magazine are presented. I like French Saveurs a lot better than US Saveurs. The content is more dedicated, obviously, to French restaurants in France, and that is my own area of interest. I subscribe to US Saveurs as well. I read L'Hotellerie, for which there is a French website, the French websites for Bottin Gourmand and Gault Millau, the magazine Gault Millau, the French language magazine Thuleries (or something like that), Figaro weekend editions, Where Magazines (free from hotels when I am in Paris), Elle A Table, four different London weekend papers (for their food sections) and various other magazines. I find that Saveurs French provides very good coverage, and Gault Millau magazine is competent. Where Magazine provides surprisingly adequate coverage of Paris. On restaurant guides, I rely on Michelin, but have almost every available French guide (e.g., Champerand, sic, Pudlowski, Lebey). On wines, I am quite weak, but am boning up. I don't subscribe to any wine magazines, but do buy Wine Spectator from time to time. On online translation services, I have not been satisfied with any of them. I used to use Babelfish for French words I did not understand, but have also found it inadequate for culinary terms. Now, I sometimes do Yahoo searches for the names of unusual ingredients, but it is a highly imperfect process. I also use Craig Claiborne's encyclopedia of food terms (that's not the official name) for references in English with which I am unfamiliar.

Steve P -- In view of the need for decanting for such significant periods (even 1-2 hours would be lengthier than available at restaurants, in many cases), are there white Burgundies or white Bordeaux that one should not choose at restaurants due to inadequate decanting time?

Pan -- Below are my rough tasting notes. They indicate that there was a light cream sauce (fattier than my earlier post indicated) added to the chicken, that may be significant to the overall flavor of the dish. You might want to take this additional piece of information into account in your choice of restaurants. I had wanted to sample Bresse chicken with champagne sauce cooked in an earthenware pot (a nice, short, big one in this case) for a long time. A large piece of bread sealed the lid of the pot, and in the middle of the baked bread was the little metal tag, with the colors of France, that is one of the identifying characteristics of Bresse chicken. The crust was thick and also wide -- it took the dining room team member considerable effort to pry the thing from the pot. Then, the pot was brought over to me to smell -- clear and chicken-like. Apparently, champagne is the principal item in the pot, other than the chicken. The chicken is removed onto a carving piece on the same trolley. The large Langiole knife cut through all areas without hassle. 4-5 pieces of supple breast meat, without the skin; one leg piece with a good amount of fattiness to the skin [i think your father may have to be careful with the skin]. The champagne sauce was heightened by the buttery aspects of this fat [!]. Finally, a piece of dark meat. The chicken was velvety and onctuous. It was silky and tasty and well-prepared -- a gentle, true chicken flavor. There was ladled a separate champagne sauce onto the dish [This is different from the champagne in which the chicken was cooked, although potentially formed from it -- one doesn't know] . Light cream [this may be a problem for your father; although it could theoretically be requested to be omitted from the portion served to your father, the taste of the dish might be affected], with tiny little "balls" of carrots, zucchini and turnip. This sauce had limited connotations of alcohol, but the aftertaste contained the playfulness and sense in the mouth of champagne (even a slight, slight hint of sourness, which was appealing too). The light cream was the predominant flavor in the sauce. An impressive dish. The dishes I chose for my lunch were: -- Boudin noir fait a la Maison et purree mousseline a l'ancienne (Home-made blood sausage, potato puree) (small portion gifted by kitchen and separate from regular amuses) -- Huitres speciales en petite terrine oceane (Sea-fresh terrine of oysters; this is the oysters in a gelee of seawater dish) -- Genese d'un plat sur le theme de l'huitre (Anatomy of a dish on an oyster theme) (1/2 portion) (This dish presents the completed dish, full size; alongside it are four miniature cups showing four key stages in the preparation of the dish) -- Poularde de Bresse a la vapeur de Champagne (Bresse chicken steamed in champagne) -- Glace a la Rose en tulipe croustillante et petales de Rose cristallise (Rose ice cream in a crunchy tulip [referring to shape], with crystallised rose petals) Bollinger R.D. 1981 Verbena Infusion