cabrales

Bux -- On your question, it's hard to tell. My sense is that the French have been eating some of these breeds at home from time to time (especially Salers). I can't tell whether the attention at restaurants is new. The restaurants listed in the original post appear to have been serving rare breeds for a while too. I was reviewing Pierre Gagnaire's website (not in view of a planned visit, to be clear). On his Spring 2002 menu is "Boeuf, Araignee de Mer et Caviar (Araignee de Mer, Coeur de Filet de Boeuf de Salers au [text not visible], petites quenelles au caviar presse. Galette de ble noir au navets blonds)" (Beef, Spider Crab and Caviar. Spider Crab, Salers Beef filet, pressed caviar (inferior to regular, unclear of English reference). A galette of buckwheat and golden turnip.) http://www.pierre-gagnaire.com/cdcame.htm As might be expected, leading restaurants located in regions where certain breeds are raised have used that breed more than usual. Troisgros has had Charolais on the menu for generations. As previously indicated, Charolais may not be as rare a breed as I had originally believed. http://www.troisgros.fr/anglais/accen.htm ("With such dishes as Steak with Melted Shallots, Beef 'Fleurie' with Marrow, and Poached Sirloin with Porcini Mushrooms and Chinese Vermicelli, each of the three generations has made Charollais beef its own.") http://www.troisgros.fr/anglais/accen.htm ("beef fillet with fleurie and bone marrow. This classic recipe from the Troisgros brothers' heyday . . . .Roanne is located near Charolais, a region which is famous for its race of bovines.") Similarly for M Bras and Aubrac beef. http://www.michel-bras.com/anglais/cuisine/gout.htm (Bras speaking of his attachment to the region) An interesting inquiry would be whether for restaurants in Paris or other large cities where there is not a local breed, rare breeds are appearing more on menus.

Liza -- I haven't thought about how many chews I take per bite, but while I'm chewing, I might or might not be (1) using utensils to gather the upcoming bite of food, (2) taking in a small additional amount of sauce, or (3) pursuing a quick sip of my wine or water. How can one chew 50 times a bite for all foods, or for any food for that matter? Also, for other members who might not be in Liza's age range and who are comfortable responding, might the use of dental devices (whether from personal experience or friends' updates) affect the "feel" of food in one's mouth and/or the taste? Perhaps speed of eating could be affected by such devices as well? I assume teenagers with braces or persons with more life experience might be able to provide input on this.

Basildog -- I empathize with your concerns regarding changes in the number of people in a reservation, particularly for a relatively small restaurant such as yours. Some people may book for 4 already knowing only 2 would show up. For me, however, if I need to book a lengthy time in advance and I'd like the flexibility to have 4 show up (e.g., I have not confirmed a couple can attend), I would book for 4 and try to scale down later. It's easier to reduce the number of people for the reservation than to increase it, generally. This is probably not a helpful practice from the restaurant's perspective, but I try to give as much advance notice of any scale-downs as practicable.

Steve Klc -- Depending on circumstances, certain other diners might be going to restaurants with "eye-catching" ingredients, high cost or extravagant wine lists to impress *others* of their perceived stature, knowledge, wealth or taste. This might manifest itself in situations like, for example, business lunches or recruiting lunches. I tend to think that the reinforcement of one's notion of self is a more intriguing discussion. Even for eGulleteers, for example, could some members be choosing particular restaurants because, for example (without any negative connotations): (1) a given restaurant is a "rising star" and discovery of restaurants before the dining masses do reinforces the member's notion of having a particuarly good palette, (2) a given restaurant is a familiar place and the member is in need of feelings of security at a time of transition in his life, (3) a restaurant is known for innovation and understanding its cuisine might reinforce the member's desire to feel like he is absorbing new things and "growing", (4) visiting restaurants around the world reinforces the member's perceptions of himself as a well-informed and well-traveled person, or (5) a restaurant is associated with a happier time in the member's past, and the member revisits the restaurant to reinforce his memories associated therewith.

jhlurie -- Yes, that's true in my case. Perhaps a better analogy would be the little Paris sidewalk bistros where one finds people sitting and having coffee or simple things. Some people stay for a very long time, without ordering additional items.

Bux & Steve Klc -- Apart from the visual appeal you discuss, Bux's quoted post alludes to the possibility of the use of "pretentious" or "eye-catching" ingredients to satisfy some non-palette-related needs that some diners might have. Using the caramel/fleur de sel macarons as an example, it is conceivable that certain diners might enjoy having their egos stoked in feeling they are receiving a gastronomically sophisticated or "cutting edge" item (obviously, this is only perception-related, since fleur de sel has been utilized for a long time, albeit not necessarily in the context of desserts). Although most luxurious, expensive ingredients taste good (e.g., caviar, high quality foie gras, truffles, Bresse chicken), I have at times wondered whether certain diners choose dishes with these ingredients as much based on how those ingredients fit in with their own notions of themselves, as on the "intrinsic" taste of the item. :confused:

Liza -- If you are comfortable, please discuss how 3 courses took 4 1/2 hours due to diners' speed, when the kitchen was prompt? Were the dishes ordered particularly complex to eat (e.g., crab requiring removal of meat)? Was the slow speed due to conversation among your dining companions? :confused: A separate point relates to the role of diner speed in Chinese-style banquets. If a diner is interested in second or third helpings of shared dishes, it is usually helpful to be a fast-eater. Also, one might want to be a fast-eater at such banquets because other diners might not use serving spoons and might dip their own chopsticks into the remaining food. For hygiene reasons, there too, it would be better to eat more quickly. If I have no expectation of a gastronomic meal (e.g., typical lunch during the week), I can eat quite quickly.

blind lemon higgins -- An accurate observation, of course

I eat slightly more slowly than most at restaurants. I'd appreciate hearing about how quickly members see themselves as eating (both in absolute terms and relative to the people with whom they regularly dine). Here are some ways one might imagine speed of eating to be relevant to a restaurant or home dining experience. Which ones do members have input on? -- Does the pace of eating affect how carefully/well members experience a dish and/or accompanying wine? -- Do members sometimes feel a dish is at an inappropriately low temperature by the time it is finished? -- Has eating too slowly ever "thrown off" cooking times or the pacing of the meal for the restaurant's kitchen, such that it affected the quality of subsequent dishes (esp. dishes sensitive to cooking time)? Have members seen dishes brought into the dining room and waiting for them while they were still working on the prior dish? -- Do members eat at different paces depending on what the occasion is for the meal (e.g., dating context vs. family; business-oriented meal vs. leisure)? -- Have "slow-eaters" (or their dining companions) been rushed at the end of a meal when a second service is intended, or the restaurant is intending to close? -- Do "fast-eaters" get frustrated at having to wait for slow-eaters? (Note there has been some discussion of the length of time spent at a restaurant in "Asked to Leave a Restaurant!!!" under "General" and "Four Restaurants" under "United Kingdom and Ireland".)

jhlurie -- For me, in France, there would generally be no circumstance in which I would be asked to make way for other diners and would feel like there was no reasonable way to say no. So, even if a dining room staff member intended to "tell" me to leave (in the sense you describe), I would feel like it was a request ("ask") that I could choose to not comply with in the event I were dissatisfied with the substance of the request or the way in which it had been posed or both. Situations where I would be very likely comply with a request to leave a table would be: (1) It is both the case that all other diners have left (in the case of restaurants with multiple services -- it is the latest service) and it is a late hour (for the geographic area in question). In this situation, I generally volunteer to leave. (2) The restaurant has signalled to me, when I am booking a table, that there may be time-related considerations. (3) The restaurant has a lounge or other formal or informal seating area (e.g., Gordon Ramsay at Claridge's; the seating area before entering the RHR dining room) and I am free there to continue conversation, coffee, etc. I am not particularly bothered by being moved to another area affiliated with the applicable restaurant. This has never happened to me before, but in some New York restaurants, I wouldn't be unhappy being moved to the bar area (to the extent it is within the main body of the restaurant). (4) There is some other activity, in the restaurant, in which I could participate and in which I choose at that particular point to undertake (e.g., tour of the kitchen or wine cellar offered by the restaurant, if a decent restaurant; Lotus in NYC, with the dancing). (5) I am having dinner (not lunch) in NYC, I have finished my meal (including coffee, mignardises), I have spent what I consider to be an unduly long time at the table and a curteous request (the antithesis of what stellabella experienced) is made, while other guests intended for my table are waiting.

blind lemon higgins -- At that hour, I wouldn't order the tasting menu. Due to work constraints and the need to book in advance, I used to make reservations at that type of hour to be sure that I would be able to attend.

I've had bookings at 10:15 pm or 10:30 pm.

If you have never visited Gordon Ramsay RHR before, I would recommend it over the other three restaurants on your list. Yes, there is more than one service for each meal, but the food is for me better than the other three. La Tante Claire would be my second preferred restaurant among the four.

I read an article in International Courier, Hors Series, on Chef Mutsuko Ohnishi of the whale meat specialty restaurant Tokuya in Osaka. Have any members visited Tokuya or otherwise taken in whale meat? The chef is active in Japanese associations advocating the use of whale meat in cuisine. She has also written a book entitled "The Whale Cuisine of Mrs. Ohnishi". One of the specialties is whale stew (hari hari nabe) -- thinly sliced whale meat simmered in a vegetable bouillon with shitake mushrooms and chilli. Also potentially available are: whale carpaccio; small pieces of raw meat; raw liver; raw heart; fried whale intestines; whale steak. The Courrier International article describes the taste of whale meat as resembling beef, but with a pronounced game taste, rather than fish. Mrs. Ohnishi noted: "The meat is not of the same taste as beef; it's more tender and more easily digestible." The article indicated that Japan is not the only country in which whale is served (e.g., Alaska, Indonesia, Norway, Korea, Iceland and Saint-Vincent-and-the-Grenadines (?) in the Caribbean). In this post, no attempt has been made to address considerations relating to marine life depletion, the differences across countries in products that are viewed as food, the international politics of Japan's efforts to lift certain bans on whale hunting, any cultural significance Japan may attach to whale meat, etc.

A restaurant in Baasrode, near Brussels (?), called t Vissershof (Vlassenbroek 70, Baasrode 32 52 21 60 86) may serve muskrat ("rat musque"?) during the Saturday dinner service and upon request, reported Courrier International, Hors-Series #21 (March - May 2002). Chef Jurgen Van Steen serves hind legs with a white wine sauce, mushrooms and juniper leaves. Bread is offered with the dish.

Bux -- In my case, due to having dined alone, 1/2 of the poularde was brought to me, split lengthwise. The dining room team member asked whether I wanted the breast or the "cuisses" (thigh/leg). I would have picked the latter anyhow, but asked for his recommendation in case there was something special relating to the breast portion of the half-mourning dish. He confirmed my choice of the thigh. In case you wondered, both portions appeared to contain roughly the same amount of truffles underneath the skin (limited amount, as discussed above). That truffles were in both portions leaves me further curious about what is done with the unchosen portion.

Miss J -- Thanks! Please follow up with your parents only at your convenience and only if you think they will have the places readily on hand.

jordan -- In view of limiting the length of the quoted excerpt, the following comment, consistent with your observations, had not been quoted from the butter-poached lobster article: "Indeed, while Mr. Keller may have come up with his butter poaching technique independently, his preparatory step [of blanching] has been around for years. A number of lobster recipes in the 1984 edition of Larousse Gastronomique, for example, call for preliminary blanching. It's also the way Jean-Georges Vongerichten has always started the lobster that is prepared with Thai herbs at Vong." On the prevalence of chefs' finding "inspiration" from others' recipes, over the weekend I read an interesting article (entitled a "Cybersorceror at the Stove") in French language Courrier International, Hors-Series #21 (March-May 2002). In it, Ferran Adria, now markedly known for innovation, indicated (roughly translated): "At the beginning [of his having taken over El Bulli], *I copied what others did*. At Bulli, during that period, one produced a pure and strong [unclear connotation] French cuisine. Until I heard *Jacques Maximin*, the [then] chef at the Negresco [Hotel] in Nice, say that to create is exactly to not copy. I have discovered that I could think on my own . . . ." The Los Angeles Times noted in its November 3, 1999 edition the same point ("Chez Bulldog: The World's Hottest Chef is Spanish", by David Shaw): "One day in 1986, while working at Jacque Maximin's two-star restaurant in the Hotel Negresco in Nice, Adria heard Maximin answer a question about creativity by saying, 'Create, don't copy. ' It was as if a 500-watt light bulb suddenly went off in Adria's brain. He went back to Spain and began experimenting . . . ." Apparently, Maximin had once been quite vocal in seeking protection of recipes.

blind lemon higgins -- An outbreak of scrambled eggs or any other egg dishes would be superb! I had scrambled eggs at Eyre Brothers (the replacement dish, hah, hah), with salted cod. In France, I had scrambled goose eggs (likely yolk overrepresented) recently at Pic, at Valence. They were served with plentiful morels, a jus based on pigeon stock, and serrano ham. Although the ham was unnecessary, the dish was good. I tend to order egg whenever it is on the menu as an appetizer. Even though Tom Valenti didn't respond to my question on his utilization of eggs, I am interested in further sampling his egg dishes too. Sunday update -- I did not make it to The Capital after all, but will try to soon.

At least at Mere Brazier, separation of the sot-l'y-laisse from the cooked chicken after the chicken is cut in front of the diner would be preferable from a presentation perspective for the non-sot-l'y-laisse bulk of the chicken. The chicken is brought to the table whole (for two or more persons, even though each only gets 1/4), or as a half-portion (for a single diner, who also receives 1/4). After the appropriate portion is served, the remaining portion of the chicken is returned to the kitchen. I wondered about the utilization of any unused portions at that restaurant. Perhaps they make them into blanc de volaille terrines (don't know if served) or things of that nature. :confused: I think you're right that separation is difficult from a raw bird. I'd have to say the sot-l'y-laisse are tasty, but, for me, not that different from other parts of the chicken. They seem to have a firmer, denser texture. Especially in the case of mass-produced chicken in the US, I'm not sure that having the sot-l'y-laisse would be impressive to members.

Scott -- Thanks! Pounds 27.50 for three courses with coffee is pretty good. Plus, the indicative menu had some promising things on it, including: Appetizers -- Risotto au Pecorino truffé et oeufs brouillés, beignet de pomme de terre au Parmesan (Truffle and Pecorino risotto, scrambled eggs with potato and Parmesan beignet), or -- Escabèche de Saint-Jacques, sardines et gambas à la vinaigrette safranée (Sea scallops, sardines and tiger prawns "en Escabèche" with saffron dressing) Main course -- Côte de boeuf à l'échalotte, pommes de terre fondant, lis de vin et sauce Béarnaise (Beef cutlet and shallots, fondant potatoes with Béarnaise and red wine sauce) -- If I can go (and that's a big "if"), this is what I'd order, in view of the La Trompette cote de boeuf with bernaise.

Bux -- Do you have a guess as to why sot-l'y-laisses are frequently paired with salad in France? Is it to permit the sampling of the pieces? Mere Brazier dining room team members indicated that that's how the pieces are usually served at the restaurant (during lunch, from time to time).

Most of the breeds date from a while back. They're still not getting as much attention as Charolais, which, even if it's not described as such on the menu, is the beef that one receives at many Paris two- or three-star restaurants (e.g., Ambassadeurs). I am beginning to appreciate Salers more, and continue samplings of Aubrac at Maison d'Aubrac or Maison de l'Abrac (?), in Paris (the tartare is a bit too sweet for my tastes, I am beginning to think -- had it recently with a Domaine Gauby Muntada, sic, 1996 and that was a good combination). There are many more French breeds raised for meat, and specimen were everywhere at the Salon Internationale d'Agricole I described a while back. That salon featured, among other things, the products of Burgundy and had lots of Charolais cows for observation. On non-French breeds, the Angus Steve P and macrosan ordered at La Trompette (see UK board) was really delicious. I still try to limit beef intake due to mad cow preventative measures, but have been growing increasingly lax about that of late. (I've posted about my concerns about beef-based stock, but that can't be helped in French cuisine.)

The Capital is open for lunch Sundays. If I am not too drained from other matters and can get enough work done today, I may go this Sunday (a reservation was available upon my telephoning today) and sample it again. I have a vague recollection of very reasonable prices for lunch (please indicate, if known). Have members had lunch at The Capital recently?

macrosan -- Yes, an interesting issue. On how much weight is attributed to different courses, when I aspire to receive a "art" meal, each course should ideally be significant, and there should be a lyrical progression (a sense of the meal overall, which likely should reach a high note with respect to the main course). When we are not addressing one of those special meals, I attribute weight to the appetizer (not necessarily the amuses, unless they are poor) and the main course about equally. I don't see the smaller physical portion size of the appetizer as signifying reduced importance, in terms of tasting the item. I attribute considerable significance to both. If a main course is affirmatively poor (not just average), but the appetizer is stunning, I could potentially give much more than a 2/10 -- depending on other factors, it could be as high as a 5/10 (although a quantitative rating doesn't quite capture my sentiments about a restaurant). I am not a big fan of dessert, especially dark chocolate-based ones, and tend to order fruit-based or egg-based desserts. Milk chocolate-based desserts are not always available. The dessert is not crucial to non-"art"-type meals (sorry, patissiers! -- a subjective quirk), but it is nice to end the meal with a good dessert. I sometimes skip dessert, and just order cheese, although I have both with some frequency. I would attribute less weight to the cheese course, because it is not the product of "cooking" (despite aging, storage, etc. considerations). In the case of tasting menus, I expect there to be more of a "progression" than normal, and will take that into account a bit more. I like it when restaurants offer entremets. I am attributing an increasing significance (although one markedly less than the quality of the cuisine) to appropriate matching of food and wine, but currently have very limited capabilities in this area. While I sometimes drink armagnac and always coffe (or some type of infusion), I don't attribute any weight to those beverages. I attribute almost no weight to bread, but am interested a bit in butter (although that would not weigh meaningfully into my assessment of the meal overall). I attribute no weight to the quality of mignardises.