cabrales

magnolia & Jon -- Thanks. Unfortunately, I don't have the Reuters subscription, and the WSJ site also requires a paid subscription. (Even the two-week free WSJ "trial" subscription might have strings attached). Which dishes were described with specificity?

Bux -- Here's another description of the pigeon dish, from the February issue of "Where" (Paris) magazine: "A Japanese chef has taken the city by storm and opened Paris' newest haute cuisine restaurant . . . . To find out what the fuss is all about, order the 'aiguillettes de pigeonneau au foie gras'. Thin strips of pigeon with foie gras and Savoy cabbage are posed on a porous plate over a bowl, then doused with hot bouillon. Once you've eaten what's on the plate, the waiter takes it away and leaves you with the consumme. . . ."

Steve -- My question was whether members viewed the Roux brothers as guiding the Brits on culinary matters other than those specific to French cuisine (and yes, also implicitly, whether the Brits needed that guidance). I don't know enough about British culinary history to take a view on issues in this thread. I read Life is a Menu a number of months ago, but Michel Roux seems to suggest that the state of British cuisine was deplorable, using peas as one of the examples (?), when he arrived from across the Channel. On the ingredients point, I think the Roux's experience would tend to support the theory there were ingredients sufficient for 2 star cuisine (at least during time periods applicable to them), despite Michel Roux's descriptions of how much effort was expended to secure ingredients. Separately, what do members think about the current apparent widespread interest on the part of the Brits in food? Could the interest be viewed as an informed one (not that it has to be), Naked Chef evidence aside?

Steve P -- You mean Bresse chickens are prohibited in the US? I had thought it was a matter of expense that rendered Bresse chickens effectively invisible on US menus. I can't meaningfully speak to any aspect of British culinary history, but wondered how you see the role of the Roux Brothers within the context of this thread. In other words, are they pioneers with respect to French cuisine in the UK (a great contribution itself), or did they contribute more than that?

Wilfrid -- The French version "PROUST, la cuisine retrouvée" (1993) has Senderens listed as an author, together with Borrel and Naudin. I wonder if the contents of the French and English versions are the same. In the English version, are the recipes by Senderens?

Malawry -- What did the students eating with you think about your eating only one bite? While duck can be lean, there is usually nice-to-me fat that buttresses, and that clings to, the skin. Are you referring to that fat, or to the "fatty" sensations of the flesh of your duck itself? As has doubtlessly been mentioned elsewhere on the board, Ruhlman's "The Making of a Chef" describes experiences at the Culinary Institute of America. His other book, "The Soul of a Chef : The Journey Toward Perfection", contains a decent amount (approx. 1/3 of the book) on Thomas Keller. http://www.amazon.com/exec....2283103

Wilfrid -- My favorite Proust passage was the one on the madelaines, until I recently read the asparagus description. That's good too. Do other members have a view on whether the Senderens book interpreting recipes relating to Proust is any good? I'll try to post the asparagus excerpt by next week in "Food Memories" under "General", which, for members' ease of reference, already offers the madelaine passage.

I have wondered about parasites (A Balic has mentioned this in another context), and things like stomach worms, where the effects of contamination might not be evident for some time. Have members experienced problems of that sort, which would obviously be more difficult to directly trace to street food? Another area of culinary hygiene where there is measurable room for improvement would be the little jars of condiment (e.g., chili, mustard) at certain restaurants, including many French restaurants in the provinces and certain Asian resaturants. The little spoon or spatula for scooping the condiment onto a diner's plate or bowl could touch partially eaten pieces of the diner's food. Also, certain diners using chopsticks or knifes might dip those saliva-tainted utensils into the jar. Furthermore, some diners pick up sugar not served in packets (never in packets at top French restaurants) with their fingers. I don't happen to use sugar, but that practice would not be happy to think about if I did. Other little things I wonder about as being unhygenic, if practiced: (1) the recycling of bread in bread baskets or little mignardises, and (2) the use in the kitchen (e.g., in sauces) of partially used butter chunks at French restaurants.

I found my first lunch at Coq d'Argent last week average. There is a prix fixe lunch for around 25 pounds for 2 courses, and 30 pounds for 3 (?). I received an uneventful amuse-bouche (that there is one speaks to the restaurant's French-ness), followed by a smooth (in a bad way) pea soup. The soup was slightly sweet, and lacked, for me, granularity and the "pick me up" of bacon or other sources of smokiness. However, the little piece of seared foie gras on top of the soup was not bad. The braised pork belly entree was better than the soup, but not by enough to justify my liking the meal overall. Good utilization of the dense texture of the skin and the copious amounts of fat. Also, nice taste of the pork itself. The apple puree included was unnecessary, and too sweet. However, a good pork belly overall. Dessert was a limp armagnac ice cream. The surroundings were not bad (a rooftop with a view of adjacent buildings and a modern interior), and service was relatively rapid when time constraints were described. The wine list contains a fair number of bottles, with some items at acceptable prices and others very overpriced. The sommelier with whom I dealt was more comfortable speaking French than English. That's the kind of place this is -- napkins folded upon a diner's departure from the seat, etc. I usually like this type of establishment , but I do not plan to return to Coq d'Argent.

stellabella -- Have you noticed whether the lights used by your friends might, by any chance, be red in color? See A Balic post of Feb. 07 2002, 07:41 in "A Balic" (p. 14).

stellabella -- I have never lived in communities in which neighborly feelings abounded. :confused: And, yes, I feel like I have missed out on something (even though I'm happy continuing to live in large cities), just like I feel like I have missed out on something by not cooking (the latter might be even more severe). You mention you sometimes run out of eggs. Could that mean you keep chicken, or did you mean you run out of store-bought eggs from free-range chicken?!

I have become more comfortable with street food since receiving my vaccinations for Hep A and B. The cooking and serving of food can be vehicles for transmitting this and other diseases. I have had concerns not only about the quality and method of preparation of street food, but also about the care with which bowls and utensils were being cleansed. Due to mad cow considerations, I no longer eat beef products (or sausage products that might contain beef components) from street vendors. I do eat street food, including quasi-street food like small stall-type, roadside restaurants in Singapore. I might avoid oysters and mussels, but usually find it impossible to resist crab. I like a few of the falafel carts in NYC -- little onions added and a white sauce. Or the sausage vendors, when the sausages look a bit burnt and are sizzling. I always buy roasted chestnuts in Paris during the wintertime, although there one gets the protection of large parts of the shell. Back to health considerations. In some Asian cuisines such as Chinese cuisine, diners utilize their own chopsticks throughout even non-street meals to pick up food from non-plated dishes. Even after my vaccinations, I try to minimize the potentially unsanitary aspects of this by: (1) asking for extra chopsticks and serving spoons in advance of the receipt of dishes, (2) reaching for food from each dish early on and not obtaining second helpings even when a food item is tasty, and (3) asking the dining room team member to serve individual diners their helpings whenever possible. (No connotations with respect to the NJ dinner, though ) I also try not to drink from other people's glasses, although that rules tends to bend according to the wine available.

Have members thought about the pros/cons of receiving vaccinations against Hepetitus A and B? The vaccinations take several months to complete, in three shots when I received them. (There didn't seem to be that many cons.) I feel better about eating street food and food in less developed countries after having received the shots. In the UK, the shots are free from the National Health Service.

Liza -- How was the J-G dish's outcome with respect to taste? Were there lots of black trumpet mushrooms? In the UK, there is advertised on TV from time to time a service called Leaping Salmon. It is not at the gastronomic levels that the chefs you name make clear, and the commercial is a bit corny. However, for example, one of the mains listed as requiring little skill is Pan Fried Ostrich Steaks with Celeriac Mash, Scallions, Black Trompettes and a Chinese Black Vinegar Sauce with Blue Congo Potato Crisps (I have been wondering how ostrich tastes like). http://www.leapingsalmon.com/ The Leaping Salmon service is not inexpensive, though. The ostrich steaks are, for example, 20 pounds for a serving sufficient for two people. A menu of (1) Tatin of Cherry Tomatoes, (2) Roast Rump of Lamb, Rosemary and Garlic, served on a bed of Sweet Potatoes with a Mint, Tarragon & Courgette Salsa, and Lemon Butter Sauce, and (3) Chocolate Fondant with White and Dark Chocolate Sauce, is 40 pounds for two. Also, a limited wine selection is offered (e.g., Moet & Chandon Brut Imperial is not badly priced at 25 pounds, for last minute needs). I have not utilized this service. Have members experience to report? Interestingly, the reviews listed on the company's website include the following: (1) "Very professional service...9 out of 10" from the Sunday Times, (2) "The service is really excellent" from the Daily Mail, (3) "Much more rewarding than a take-away..." from the Independent, (4) "a gourmet meal company that really delivers" from the Evening Standard, and (5) "Leapingsalmon is perfect..." from Time Out. I have not read the full text of the above reviews, and members should not rely. But the reviews make the company sound a bit interesting.

Steve -- On the interest offered by a cuisine, what I was trying to say is that many people might find French haute cuisine interesting because they have not sampled it as much as you (or other members) have. What you find less interesting when done by a French chef might still be very interesting to much of the relevant dining population, who have not yet visited relevant restaurants or sampled the same range of dishes. Is it possible that French cuisine might be becoming less relevant to you and others similarly situated, but still be of high relevance to many others differently situated? Also, note that a diner might find a restaurant or cuisine interesting, and yet not become a customer (in view of scheduling or cost issues, geographic distance, etc.)

I had lunch at Clerkenwell Dining Room again today, from the prix fixe menu (which is revised weekly, apparently on Tuesdays). The meal was not as good as that as my prior meal there, which itself had been particularly good. For 11.50 pounds for 2 dishes (14.50 with dessert) (a very reasonable price), the "menu du jour" menu offered: 1. Crispy calves' feet, black pudding, pea puree Aubergine and tomato salad, chilli jam and flat bread, OR --> Warm octupus and seaweed salad, mirin dressing: This dish was only so-so, due to the soft and texture-depleted aspects of the large octupus pieces. The chevril and purple, mint-tasting herb atop the octupus helped slightly, as did the soft mesh of seaweed and radish (?) julienne underneath. 2. Sauteed cornfed chicken winter truffles and vegetables Wild mushroom ravioli, mascarpone and tarragon, OR --> Fish beignets, saute potatoes and sauce tartare: This dish was average because the quality of the single piece of cod-like fish fillet (despite the reference to beignets) was not extraordinary. The batter was light and appropriate for the deep-frying; potatoe cakes were placed on top of lettuce and peas. For members interested in the menu du jour, the chicken with truffle dish might be a better choice. 3. Choice of dessert --> Coconut ice cream. This was nice, with limited (in a good way) coconut flavors and a hint of the texture of the coconut meat's texture in the mouth. With glasses of Perrier Jouet and Springfield Special Cuvee Sauvignon Blanc 2001, Robertson, South Africa, and coffee, the bill came to under pounds 40. If a diner were very careful and took in only two dishes, it might be possible to stay below pounds 20 per person. As Andy suggested, it would be better to head across the street to St John.

Ruby -- Please don't mind if I am providing context of which you are already aware, but Steven's lead post might not be as simple a question in view of the concurrent discussions in other threads on the relevance of French cuisine, the utilization of flavors such as curry by French chefs like Pacaud, the meaning of curry in Indian cuisine, etc. See "Has the light dimmed on French cooking?" under "General", "French and American Menus" under "France", "Fusion Food -- Profoundly Dishonest? Discuss" under "India", and "Indian Spices in Michelin 3 Star Kitchens" under "India". At least to me, the quote that began this thread ("Food is becoming less country-driven and more and more flavor-driven, with each chef interpreting his or her vision.") spoke of flavor and the crossing of country-related barriers, which brought to mind flavor- and spice-related discussions in the named threads.

Steve -- Perhaps for somebody who does not have the subjective experience with three stars and other restaurants that you have, a restaurant like Guy Savoy (or similar restaurants in France) would offer a more moving experience. I wonder if there are really as many people who have dined relatively steadily the way you have, and who have been able to discern differences among restaurants the way you do? Could that potentially affect your assessment of the relevance of French cuisine?

Ruby -- Thanks for your thoughts. Somewhat similar concerns have been raised by Simon M in the "Decline in UK Forum" thread under "United Kingdom and Ireland". If my posts have come off sounding pompous or unduly complex, I am sorry they have come across that way, for that is far from the intent. I know that the absence of negative intent does not address the reality of what you have perceived. However, it's difficult for a given thread to be everything for everybody, and I'm uncertain how to address that. If you are interested in a bit of background, I have enjoyed participating in this thread for many reasons, including continuing dialogue with LML (with whom I have not always agreed, with all due respect to LML of course, on other occasions) as well as the substantive discussion. I appreciated the dialogue with all posters relating to rural/metropolitan distinctions, the income- and class-related matters raised, the references to whether cuisine can be rooted in a particular region or be based on a chef's vision, the position of less talented chefs, chefs' aspirations, the impact of globalization, the possibility of a new generation of chefs in France, etc. Perhaps my listing of all these factors shows I am part of the problem from your perspective? I thought I would try to put forth mine.

stellabella -- Thanks for your description. When I was a kid, I read about fictional communities where people would all know each other and have gatherings. I also imagined that people would exchange home-made jam and canned items, and bring food to sustain neighbors when they were ill or otherwise preoccupied. Are such acts of mutual caring figments of my imagination, or could they occur from time to time in a community such as yours? Also, do you have special potlucks during certain holidays?

Steve -- On not being moved by meals, have you considered whether that effect might be in part due to your subjective abundance of experience with respect to French restaurants of Guy Savoy's type and other subjective characteristics? And, if the answer is yes, would it be fair to observe that you have characteristics that are different from those of the average diner at a French three-star? I was also unmoved by the Guy Savoy dinner, but that is the effect of most three-stars I visit. That is in part a function of my quirky preferences for a very particular type of cuisine and restaurant. But, even though I was unmoved by Guy Savoy, I would not say I was close to being bored by his cuisine. I observed and appreciated what Guy Savoy offered, which was good to very good cuisine, and had a satisfying, if uninspired and "unfulfilling" (in the "Chef of the Century" sense), meal. But that is no worse than what I have had outside of France (Bouley aside). Club Gascon may have been more interesting -- in the sense of being different from most French restaurants in France or outside of it, for reasons you discuss -- but, as you noted, the meal at Guy Savoy was far better.

While the dialogue in this thread has moved beyond the confines of Pacaud's langoustine with curry dish, I'd like to provide further support for Pacaud's not having utilized curry in order to render his cuisine contemporary. Pacaud's langoustines with curry dish can be traced to oysters with curry that Claude Peyrot offered at Vivarois (Paris) two decades ago. Together with La Mere Brazier (whose chicken in half mourning dish is on the L'Ambroisie menu from time to time), Peyrot was Pacaud's principal culinary mentor. Peyrot's oysters with curry dish is chronicled in the following writings: 1) Patricia Wells, "Fine Meals for Fewer Francs" (New York Times, November 6, 1983): "After being downgraded from three to two Michelin stars this year, Vivarois appears to be on the upturn. Claude Peyrot's menu includes a small but solid selection: *warm oysters in a light curry sauce*, coq au vin or kidneys served with a variety of mustards, . . . ." 2) Patricia Wells, "The Galaxy of Three Stars in Paris" (New York Times, September 19, 1982) "The chef-owner, Claude Peyrot, is a disciple of the late Fernand Point . . . To dine at Vivarois is to understand what Point was after: Contemporary French food must be linked to the classics, but the overall effect should be light. . . . . The best dishes sampled included a platter of *warm oysters on a bed of spinach, afloat in a lightly curried sauce,* and bavaroise de poivrons, a light, bright and creamy dish that blends red peppers, cream and a touch of gelatin. . . ." [Note also use of red peppers, just like those in Pacaud's red pepper mousse] Wells' article confirms Peyrot had the curry oyster dish since at least 1982. The langoustines dish at Pacaud is (at least sometimes) served on a bed of spinach that sits above the curried sauce. A leap from oysters in a curry sauce with spinach to langoustines in a curry sauce with sesame wafer and spinach is not a heft one. 3) http://www.europeguidebook.com/france....s16.cfm ("This modern gem is a creation of chef Claude Peyrot. . . . Try his justly famous hot *curried oysters*.") 4) Nicolas de Rabaudy, "Magie des Grands Restaurants d'Europe" (or similar title): In a chapter on Pacaud, this author refers to the chef's drawing inspiration for the use of curry from Peyrot's curried oyster dish.

Wilfrid & LML -- I would also agree with LML's last post. However, I would add, with all due respect, that mediocrity in restaurants has so many causes other than chefs trying for gimmick-like synthetic novelties. It is also unfortunate that chefs with a genuine interest in pleasing the client and in cooking well are frequently incapable of doing so in my assessment. It's always better to have that kind of motivation and to have failed (at least for some diners), than to not even have aspired (?). LML focused on chefs' aspirations. I think alot about diners' aspirations too, and how one can mold one's restaurant experiences (not control, but attempt to influence and to choose -- frequently with little precision!)

So do I. However, far more space here is dedicated to saying why things don't work than why they do. Although the latter is far more interesting and worthy of attention, it is also a great deal more difficult to do. LML -- When you have a chance, please consider clarifying whether your reference to bad meals is to meals that a member knows will not meet his standards before the meal, or to meals that in hindsight are not as expected. My own experience is that I expect most restaurant meals I plan will not be rhapsody-inducing. That is because I know my own preferences quite well, read considerably about restaurants and can deduce quite a lot from menus on their websites (if any). However, for certain restaurants I have never tried in my life (including restaurants that I know would very likely not provide stunning experiences, which comprise many restaurants I visit), I want to have visited them at least once in my life to satisfy my curiosity about them. Bux has mentioned this type of curiosity in another thread. For me, it's not a question of wanting to visit this type of restaurant to be able to say to third parties I have done so. I also enjoy comparisons across different restaurants, and so visiting new-to-me restaurants sometimes triggers thoughts about all sorts of cuisine-related and restaurant-related matters. I even enjoy the process of choosing known non-wonderful restaurants, and, yes, after a meal at such restaurants, I may have criticisms that are posted along with any positive aspects. Also, I (and presumably other members) do not post about every meal taken. What I post on reflects many factors, including perceived level of interest on the board (e.g., when I visit Craft or locunda locatelli for the first time, I am likely to post), personal quirks, time constraints based on the demands of work, friends and family at any given time, personal energy level and many others.

Steve -- I don't disagree that Nobu might have been willing to experiment, but why do certain French chefs have to experiment drastically if what they have is already widely sought after and considered very good? Also, in pointing out the potential Japanese ingredient or Japanese cuisine inspirations of some signature Nobu dishes, I was trying to pursue whether the experimental "leap" might have been more natural for Matsuhisa, given his background and training, than it might have been for a traditionally trained French chef. Meaning, I do think leading French chefs experiment, but, for their background and sensitivities, they are less likely to have come up with Nobu's signature dishes. You might view Nobu as "jumping" into the water, given your appreciation of French food and background. For him, the steps might have been less drastic. I am not saying they were or not; just that one could imagine they might have been. Take the tobiko example, if that is an ingredient in the spicy sauce. A French chef might think about caviar when he thinks of roe -- not flying fish roe -- but sturgeon caviar is not going to give the small grains of flying fish roe, let alone the different taste. So, it's possibly a more difficult leap for a French chef to come up with the flying fish roe, which, given its matching of the other flavors of the creamy spicy sauce, makes it less likely that the spicy sauce would have evolved the way it did for a French chef. Also consider the spicy sauce itself. While clearly differentiated from the spicy sauce used in sushi preparations like those involving spicy tuna (e.g., in cones or in sliced rolls), the Nobu spicy sauce is possibly an easier jump from that spicy sauce than from classical French sauces. (I assume spicy tuna has been around Japanese sushi preparations for longer than Nobu has had his spicy sauce?) Thus, what you perceive may be more radical experimentation might not have been such to others differently situated. Yes, dominant as in best, for French food.