Wendy DeBord

I have to say, my response on this thread was based on my experience. We/Americans used to serve these as appetizers years ago. I didn't even know these were traditional in the UK. ........sorry.

This frosting is what's classically used to frost red cakes (although I've learned lots of people also use a cream cheese frosting with red cakes too). It's not far from a german buttercream, just not quite as rich. I never had any problems with this being any more heat sensitive than any other all butter cream frosting. But the recipe I use isn't real agile when it comes to decorating with it. It feels alot like pastry cream when you spread it. As to your bride.........this may be a family recipe that she'd rather make compromises on decor and how long it's out in the heat, then to scratch this and go with another frosting recipe. The people I know that like this frosting, love it... and don't like other buttercreams. If worse came to worse you could compromise and use this frosting as your filling and then a buttercream you like better for the exterior.

I do own RLB's The Pie And Pastry Bible, but I really haven't worked much from it. I make sour cream and cream cheese crusts for other pastries............and I find it hard to imagine I'd like those for fruit pies. But I don't know. I'll give her recipe a try as soon as I find an opening in my menus and report back.

This is the first I've heard of a book from him.

You can make this lots of ways as previously suggested. You can bake using a raw brownie batter and cheesecake batter layered on top of each other. Give some consideration to the depth of each. For example don't bake a thin cheesecake layer on top of a raw brownie batter because your cheesecake will probably dry out before the brownie layer is done. I'd make them the same thickness if I was making a bar from them. Or I'd make the brownie as a crust layer (still not pre-baked) and add my deep cheesecake batter and bake as a cheesecake (low temp.). You could prebake your brownie layer too. Baking it until it's done, then add your cheesecake and bake on low temp. for the cheesecake portion. Your brownie layer won't really bake much more. The raw cheesecake batter will slow down the brownie from baking too much.

I would tend to disagree with using raw sausage. The grease that releases from your sausages will soak into your puff pastry. When I make these I use partically cooked sausages that I've let cool before wrapping in pp. You moisten the seams to bind/seal with h2o or egg wash. You should bake pp from a chilled state (from the cooler), not from room temp. or frozen, both have negative effects on your rise. You do not need to score or preslice your sausages before baking. If you need to freeze these I'd still precook my sausage, then wrap in pp and freeze at this unbaked stage. When you want to eat them........take them from the freezer into your cooler to defrost/yet remain chilled, then bake straight from the cooler in a hot oven, about 375F to 425F. Not higher or lower then that range. You can add seasoning to your pp for an extra taste. Egg wash the exterior and dust with sea salt or herbs.........spices, etc... before baking.

I don't know of any speedier way..........and I'd sort of question any, are they any good? A cream pie is prettty much making pastry cream. Theres cream pies that use sweetened condensed milk verses whole milk or heavy cream to form the pastry cream, choices between using cornstarch or flour as your thickener........but you still have to cook them. But meringue toppings on pies...........well that's a whole topic onto itself. Theres been a fair amount of work written on this topic in books and magazines. We've talked about meringue toppings here too. You might find this thread interesting.

We've had a couple great threads on sources for packaging. There was a thread on this topic about a week ago. You can read thru our pages.........because your likely to stumble upon more info. that relates to your interests. We've had many threads that should interest you. Or you can use our search feature. I don't have much luck using our most obvious search buttoms, the rectangular boxes with blue go buttons....located on the upper right side of each page. BUT if you go to the very top of our page (when you can't scroll any higher) you'll see on the upper right side links to: Imagegullet, The Daily Gullet, RecipeGullet, Help, Search, Members, Calender. Using the search button there works with much more detail with-in our site. The difference between what you'll find using that search feature and the other are night and day, imo. Then narrow your focus to P & B Forum and enter words that relate to what your looking for: Chocolate boxes, display cases, guittar cutters, etc....

Hum...........I make them occasionally. They exist in a couple pastry books and I've seen an article or two in magazines over the past couple years featuring them. I bet theres other American bakers making these if I am.

Absolutely gorgeous! I think you exceeded any dreams the mother of the bride may have had. Your edges just blow me away.....................

I haven't tried the recipe BarbaraY just posted from Julie Sahni, but I do make the recipe from Julie S.'s book and I think it's fabulous. For the record the book is Classic Indian Cooking, by Julie Sahni, published in 1980 by William Morrow and Company. The crust remained crisp for me until I refridgerated the finished samosa for a couple days. It was easily recrisped by baking it in a hot oven. Pg. 126 Samosa Pastry Dough: 1 1/2 c. all purpose flour 1 tsp. kosher salt 4 tbsp. veg. shortening 6-7 tbsp. cold water The difference between making this pastry and pie pastry is that you rub the fat into the flour until all the particles of flour are evenly coated. Technically this method of mixing fat and flour would create a "mealy" crust verses a flaky crust. Dirrections: mix together the salt and flour in a bowl. Place your shortening in it and with your hands rub back and forth the fat and flour until there are no more lumps of fat visable. Then add your cold water. I would add the 6 tbsp. all at once and mix the dough together with my hands. If it didn't come together into a mass (was still too dry) I'd sprinkle on the 7th tbsp. of water and mix until the dough came together as one. Ms. Sahni also gives instructions to mix this in a cusinart. I can't imagine liking a samosa made with wonton skins...........I think this crust is so much a part of what makes a samosa good.

Would you mind posting that so all of us can see it. I'd love to see it! Thanks.

One of the first things that comes to my mind is, are you hiring assistant pastry chefs who aspire to become pastry chefs or are you hiring anyone that can do the job? Because if your hiring someone interested in pastry eventually they will be bored always doing the same thing (if your only leaving the prep work) and never doing the real baking and planning. But if your hiring say a college kid who's major is something other then cooking.........I'd say they just got bored and are moving on. If you can find a person who's new to the country/language, they usually don't mind doing repetitive work while their aclimating to their new language and surroundings. I try to comunicate exactly what I wondering by just dirrectly asking people questions. Do they enjoy doing xyz? Is there anything they'd like to work on learning (and then incorporating that into my menu so they have something to look forward to)? I try to give people challenging things to do as well as the mundain. I believe you have to give people challenges or they become complacient. You can usually see if someone is bored or dis-interested by their body language and their craftmenship. Currently I have the salad guys plating my ala carte desserts and I do everything else myself. I also happen to work in a different part of the building then the main kitchen. Theres limitations, as in, they can't do advanced plating (or I should say their not interested in doing advanced plating so forget trying to teach it to them). Nor do they typically have the time to do any advanced plating while working a busy salad station. Instead I do my best to simplfy my plates, all garnishes are on the item, they only add sauces or xxxsugar, etc... to plates. That was hard to accept at first, but I've refocused myself. Since I can't rely on fancy plated work, I have to really consentrate on taste alone to sell my product. I poor my need to do visual work into other aspects of my job, like buffets or banquets work. I work at a country club and our numbers vary greatly. I handle all the banquet plating...........the only area I get help in is ala carte work. If we are having a major event (like on Valentines/holidays, or big club events like candlelight dinners) I will stay and work the nightshift to plate my own work.

Maybe someone else will help by describing this action, please? (I'm not the best person for decribing things.) It's become such second nature to me it's hard for me to see this thru the eyes of a less experienced baker.

I've seriously tried very hard to do this myself and can't acheive the same perfection when I use the cusinart to mix in my liquids verses mixing the liquid in by hand. Regardless of how cold my butter/fat was, the cusinart cuts right through it.

If I recall correctly, doesn't the CI recipe tell you to drain off the liquids and discard them? Personally I didn't "get" the objective they were aiming for in that recipe.......just apple and crust......... I'm firmly in the camp that pre-cooks their apples, thickening the juice seperately...then adding it back to the apples. It's the only way I know of to get consistant results. Apples moisture content is too fickle to follow a one size for all, recipe design. I recall having years where I couldn't find a apple that contained any juice, they were all dry. The stories I could tell you.......yek, I can't bring myself to admit to some of the embarassing apple pies I've created over the years. Just surfice to say I've experienced everything from having cups of liquid slashing around between two crusts (that wouldn't bake) to dried up rubber apples. Where as I've made tons of blueberry pies and the fruit has been consistant, contantly. I could/can rely on consistant moisture/juice from the berries. I can say that for several other fruits. I can say that about using frozen fruits too.........I've experienced consistant results from quality frozen fruits. But apples are a difficult fruit to get consistant results from.

Auesome work mpshort! I LOVE the sharp edges you get on your cakes. Which method do you use to achieve that perfection?

please respond to CaliPoutines question about pie filling on this thread, about pie fillings.

O.k. just one more thing to mention. We should be posting our recipes into RecipeGullet (button for it is on the top right side of your page), then linking to your recipe in your post. If you need help, please pm me or my co-hosts.

So, in an attempt to keep things organized, will you all post your thoughts, recipes and information about pie fillings in this thread. Your welcome to also talk in general about pies, pie crusts etc... on this thread (saving your actually demonstration post for our formal Demo: Pie Pastry Crusts thread or Demo: Press-In Crusts thread).

This thread is open to all members to post demonstrations of their crusts. Press-in crusts are different then pastry crusts in the regard that it's not a dough you making and lining your pan with. Your using either nuts or cookies.......perhaps even other grains (other then processed whea) and pressing your mixture into your pan, not forming a dough from your ingredients. Technically a press-in crust can be formed in a pie pan or a tart pan. Again to remind all, this is a demonstration thread and it should be narrowly focused on the information presented only. General discussions of this topic should not take place in this thread. If you desire to talk in general about press in crusts, please post on a different appropriate thread (starting one, if need be). Please include your recipe (posting it in RecipeGullet, then linking it back to your post) with your demo. You can post the recipe for the filling your making, but any discussion about fillings and how to belong on a seperate thread. I'll start one now, please feel free to discuss fillings you like and use, there. Thanks everyone..........and I sincerely hope you all will enjoy this and share too.

I'm throughly enjoying this thread! I didn't follow/understand and was wondering if you could explain a little more on the straw sugar technique, please? I didn't understand the technique and what the finished piece looks like/achieves. I'm having a hard time seeing the effect in the dark purple sugar. In the striping I see in your purple snake, are the lighter areas/stripes because it's transparent sugar bubbles, showing length wise? I'm having a hard time understanding why it's called straw sugar..........the straw like appearance is inside your smooth exterior? Whats the advantage to this? Will you cut it into sections so you see the inner straws? Are you pulling out a length (thats two lengths with one cupped over the other) then folding it back over itself to double its strands? What happens to the folded over ends? Do you cut them off? Can you tell me more about the plastic tubing used to shape the red sugar tube....... If I go to my local hardware store what is that tubing called, in what department will I find it? I've always wanted to know how you remove the tubing once the piece has set. You showed that you score thru it......while the sugar is still warm? How deep do you score it and when? Then when you want to completely remove it how do you make sure you don't score into you sugar? Is there a tip for removing the tube? Should you cut it into smaller sections as you remove it? How are you/they storing your finished pieces and unused blobs of sugar overnight?

This demo thread will be a collaborative effort and it's open to all members of the eGullet Society For Arts & Letters to particpate in. I want to make a special note, if you double check the title of this thread I've specified it as "Pie Pastry Crusts" which to me can be defined as crusts made with flour, fat and liquid. Crusts that are pressed into the pan, nut crusts, graham cracker crusts, ground cookie crumbs, etc... will be demo'ed in a seperate thread titled "Demo: Press-in Crusts". So please consider which type of crust your making and choose the appropriate demo thread to share on. My co-hosts and I will delete any off topic questions, remarks or chatter, keeping this thread narrowly focused on demonstrations. If you have questions on a demo that isn't the most current poster, please mention to whom your asking a question to, then let that person respond as the authority of their own information. As promised I said I would begin this thread with the information I have previously written for a pie crust baking class. I'm sorry, I need to break that promise due to feeling under the weather (head cold). I'd like to hold off with my part of the demonstration and let you all begin, please. I'll begin this thread by pasteing in Jackel10's demo, that was accidentally posted on the wrong thread. Please feel free to jump in and ask Jackel10 about his crust, recipe, technique or any questions you have. Then I hope we can look forward to seeing many of you post your demonstrations of your crust recipes. Thanks in advance everyone!!.........enjoy!

We have talked about baking for diabetics which in turn turns into a discussion about sugars and vegan baking. But I don't think we've talked strictly about low or no fat baking until this very thread. I think we are all interested to some extent in this topic. Have you broken down many recipes and done calorie comparisions JayBassin? How does a graham cracker crust compare to a nut crust calorie wise?