Margaret Pilgrim

I am delighted that you enjoyed Villaret, and that after some dozen years it continues to perform albeit with new chefs and management. It has always held a special place in my heart as it was the first time I encountered a less-than-classic menu in French. I could grasp 2/3 of every offering, but nothing more. We were early for a reserved table for 4. I read the menu...over and over and over...and told my husband, "We have to leave. I haven't a clue what they are talking about." My husband, with his boundless faith in me, demanded that I settle down and try again. At this point, Joel, then the head waiter, now a partner, approached our table, grasped that I had some understanding of a French menu but needed help, and although speaking almost no English, pantomimed the entire menu for us. Our friends arrived, and we all ordered and ordered well! It was a wonderful evening which we repeated often for a number of years. It is obviously time to return. Thanks for the nudge.

I was just passing down Richard Lenoir this afternoon on a bus (I know, it doesn't run there, but there was a manif) and I saw nothing. Also Pudlo lists nothing in the 11th for cheese. The great cheese places, Alleosse, Cantin, Androuet, are pretty far away. But as I keep saying here, everything is nearby in Paris. The Repaire de Cartouche in the 11th has camembert "straight from the farm." Good eating! ← There are several rather good cheese suppliers at the Thursday and Sunday markets at the intersection of Lenoir and the Bastille.

Le Villeret 13 rue Ternaux (an alley running parallel to Oberkampf, just west of Parmentier) (11e) 01.43.57.89.76

Very sad, indeed. It has been known for awhile - and cattle breeders agree on this - that Holstein cows are preferred for their ability to produce large quantities of milk, but it is not good quality milk compared to, say, the milk of Norman cows, Ferrandaises and Aubrac cows in Auvergne and Rouergue. Making camembert or cantal cheese without the milk that originally produced them means added difficulty and a drop in quality. And those cows produce more milk, fine. But then there's milk overproduction and nobody really knows how to deal with it. That's a good example of European regulations painting themselves in a corner. It also has to be said that the various breeds of regional cows are very handsome (and that applies to all European regional cow breeds, not just French) and are part of the general beauty of the country. Fortunately efforts are made to preserve our bovine heritage. The lovely red Ferrandaise cow nearly disappeared, some people are fighting to keep her on the Auvergne slopes. And just as fortunately, thin-legged, huge-bellied Holstein (which is not a very sturdy breed) will not fare in certain geographical conditions, and won't prosper in the mountains (which accounts for the survival of high-altitude breeds like Abondance and Tarine in the Alpes, Salers, Ferrandaise and Aubrac in the Massif Central. The "mad cow crisis", all evil effects aside, has also helped redefine the problem. Regional breeds are preserved to ensure good quality meat in medium or small-sized cattle farms. That is the case of Limousine, Salers, Charolaise, and to a lesser extent Normande, Bazadaise, etc. This helps preserve our milk cow heritage as well. For instance Charolaise is good for meat, but it is very poor for milk. This is why Norman cows are used for feeding calves in the Charolais region. When crossing the Bourgogne-Mâconnais-Nivernais region by train or TGV, do you sometimes notice that herds of white cows in fields are sometimes studded with two or three cream-and-brown cows? These are the Norman wet-nurses. You may notice that Norman cows are used for this purpose, not Holsteins (it seems that humans are treated with less consideration than calves here ). You may also notice that this sort of re-regulation of cattle diversity through several factors has nothing to do with the "market" (although perhaps indirectly, through the ESB crisis). ← How interesting to get some background on French cattle. Year before last we drove from the Bugey area east of Lyon to Cognac, looping south through Lozere and Dordogne. While my husband commented on the changes in roof styles and architecture in general, I pointed out the differing breeds of cattle we encountered. I hope these differences in culture, for lack of a better word, continue.

While I think that what you say is valid, my increasing understanding of French socio-economics (and I want to interject here that this understanding is infantile in its scope) causes me to support chefzadi's rationale. At the same time, Mallet, I want to emphasize that you are also completely correct. The EU regulations will cause producers who engage in the larger or, how shall we say it, the legitimate market, to conform to its rigid regulations. Their produce will become more homogeneous as it conforms to the norm. Those consumers who rely on the larger marketplace or on export will necessarily confront this kind of product from here on. However, those who live in smaller communities where the market is less controlled (or controllable!) may well continue to enjoy the regional products we have come to enjoy; this level of product may well be available to better restaurants and, indeed, through contacts to small affineurs throughout the country and therefore in boutique cheese shops. Extrapolating from this, it will be the export consumer and the domestic consumer who shops in the supermarche who will lose access to the artisanal product as we have known it. Repeating, this is simply my conjecture.

Hehehehehe! Well done!

I think that I keep saying this, but here goes one more time: Read John Talbott's easy-to-find 2004 and 2005 reviews. The price is right, and it is undoubtedly the same information that Wells uses to make her choices. Enjoy.

Chefzadi echoes what we have experienced in France. I think that, like the US's present prohibition of importation of all meat products from France, starting, I believe, with a ban on foie gras, the EU statutes will affect people farther from production, and perhaps export, but not those who are fortunate enough to buy locally.

During the past three weeks we had the opportunity to have conversations with many French people about their upcoming vote on the EU constitution. Of those we encountered, virtually all were planning to vote "No". I, jokingly, proposed a slogan for those opposed: "It's the cheese!" One woman, who argued very intelligently on the necessity to ratify the constitution countered that Americans simply could not understand. She said that culturally the Swiss and the English follow the law, but, paradoxically, were not involved in the ratification. The French, however, she maintained, simply ignore legislation that they do not like. It was her position that by and large the French will go on doing things the way they always have, that officials will simply look the other way as they often have, and that only a minority proportion of producers will actually follow the letter of the EU requirements. This may be true for very small producers who are working off the books anyway, but not for those with any commercial presence. However, it would be lovely if her analysis were true.

There is something in the French psyche that does not allow for being in the wrong.

Actually, if you read the proportions of grounds to water, and if you agree that a café and an express are the same, your three are the same. A café noir is simply a double express. The difference will be, I'm sure, evident in the check!

No need! My orders vary thoughout the day. At breakfast in my hotel, I will call for a cafe au lait. Later at a street stand, and before 8am, I will ask for a cafe creme. At a cafe or after lunch I will order a cafe. After dinner, I make sure they will bring me a deca, or decaffeine exprès. Different orders for different times of day.

Well, I think so; actually, without a doubt! And then we can consider ordering coffee in Athens or Istanbul. But this thread refered to ordering in France. In fact, the information I posted came from "France" magazine. The descriptions I listed are certainly arbitrary and vary from place to place and form level of service to level of service. Once again, ordering coffee in France is an experience!

I hate to add such an unromatic post to this thread, but I pit literally everything: cherries, plums, dried prunes, olives, and I do this as a courtesy to my guests and family as well as a safeguard to my liability policy. The reason: I was having lunch with a friend at an upscale restaurant at which our waiter gave me specific warning about the olives in my salad, "They have pits." With great care, I watched for and corraled the pits on my plate, only to become engrossed in conversation, let a pit hide under a bite of lettuce and split a molar. Cost of lunch: $1500.

I ran across this list of coffee names that may take some of the guesswork out of ordering. I have no idea if these are traditional or defined by law. café express: 7cl water for 7gm ground coffee café allongé: 14cl water for 7gm ground coffee café américain: 20cl water for 7gm ground coffee café noir: 14cl water for 14gm ground coffee café noisette: 7cl café express with a teardrop of millk café créme: 7cl café espress with 4cl of milk; also called a petit café au lait grand créme: 14cl café espress with about 7cl of milk; also clled grand café au lait Of course, none of these explain the vagueries of my ordering café au lait at breakfast and having my tray arrive with anywhere from 25cl to 50cl of both/either coffee and hot milk.

Cookbooks in French are my addiction. For visiters to Paris' Clignancourt flea market, I propose the enormous used bookstore on the back of the market. It has about 10 yards of esoteric and classic cookbooks as well as a large wine section. What to do on a rainy day! And the prices are exceptionally good. Also, the large used book market on Saturdays and Sundays on outer Lecourbe has offered up some gems (eg Veyrat at 10 euros). I have long preached that one of the best ways to improve your skills in a foreign language is to approach it from subject matter you understand. Food and cooking books are my entry; rocket science is not.

Carolyn, many thanks for the reminder of this superb text and photos.

Does no one else see the parallel between turning and the multitude of techniques that make up haute cuisine? One can start with almost any facet and question its necessity. But in the end, it is the composite that charms and is worth both price and therefore effort. re waste: make broth.

I always assumed that the focus of this forum was food in France and travel to and within France, and that French and Italian and American etc. cooking should be posted in the Cooking forum.

I hope you are not writing about the woman who opened Tartine in the Mission district of San Francisco. This is a lovely little bakery that serves both sweets and savories of impecable quality. It's likes are indeed abundant in France, although not known by that name.

Fair enough. I suppose on my trips to France I always assumed that I would be going back, which I will again and again unless something catastrophic happens, like I die or something. Convenience over quality isn't something I fall into lightly, especially when it comes to food. But when traveling with my children I've been known to embrace it at times as a godsend. I've never been one of those organized, prepared moms. Pack wholesome snacks for a long trip? What? This reminds me when we were in the Beaujolais once with our then 1 1/2 year old daughter, we ran out of milk and didn't notice untill 10:00 PM and I asked my husband you mean EVERYTHING is closed, NOTHING is open. You can take the girl out of the city, but the city out of the girl? I love the good old days more in theory sometimes because I'm not always prepared to practice it when my six year old is whining and my two year old is having a typical toddler moment. I think that Melton and I tried to explain the context in which Courtepaille might be okay. We never said it was GOOD. ← I think that most of us do understand the context of this thread. I doubt that any of us could say that we have never had a turnpike moment, when any clean, dry haven looked like a god-send. In fact, I dearly wish there were a Courtepaille on the Pennsylvania Turnpike between Philadelphia and Harrisburg! And, yes, as Menton points out, many Amercans assume that they are "safe" when they order a "steak" in France, only to find that even that simple plate has cultural overtones. Thanks for the input.

Interesting list. We have enjoyed many excellent dishes at La Dinee over the years, but a cote de boeuf is probably the last thing I would order there, as their plates are seldom so simple. Oh...more likely they refer to the newish dining room next door called La Plancha de La Dînée, which features less mannered offerings with a probable emphasis on grilled meats. This separate phone number is 01.45.54.54.04 85, rue Leblanc, 15e.

Have we any access to a menu? Or are we supposed to book on faith?

Your comments are so personal and suggestive that I wonder if you could tell us more of your experience at your meal at the Moulin? They are much more evocative than more formal reviews.

Regardless of all my protestations to the contrary, I will have to admit that Kraft Mac and Cheese in the blue box is the best morning-after-hangover-cure, bar none. A real grease and starch panacea. I'm sure there is a "from scratch" alternative, but under those conditions, I've never looked for it.