Deryn

I wonder how much arsenic may enter poultry merely because they peck in dirt or are fed grains that were grown in areas where arsenic is a problem (i.e. perhaps where rice grown in the US, which often can contain more arsenic than is naturally found in rice grown elsewhere around the world, is produced) - without even being deliberately given to them as drugs or to 'promote health and growth of the birds' (whatever the source of that may be). Chickens are not large birds - I don't imagine it would take much to show up in their bodies. Time to set up my own chicken coop methinks. John - sorry to hear that chicken products in your part of the world are now often castoffs from the US (the quality of which is bad enough here - and getting worse quickly).

The pictures are great. Thanks for the captions and the tour in general. I am jealous that you got to experience all that lusciousness and I didn't (other than vicariously). By Porto - you mean Portugal's Porto? If so, yes, I would love to see that (but will keep my sound off). I could have done without that muzak - but, perhaps I am just a bit disappointed there because when you said it had sound, I thought you would be describing everything with your own voice - and the music choice did remind me a bit of too many food related 'interludes' on the Canadian Gusto channel. (Please note: Not a criticism - just a comment).

I'd be inclined to leave out the soy sauce. Not really certain why it is called for at all in this kind of sauce/dressing. I have made many a lemon-y tahini sauce with just sesame seeds or prepared tahini, lemon juice (to taste), a garlic clove, a pinch of salt - and sometimes a tiny bit of honey, depending on what I want to use it with/on - and water (not much usually). If I wanted a bit of back end kick, I would probably sneak in a pinch of cayenne or some other dried chili. Thanks for the Crepes - what are the ingredients listed on the jar of Serendipity dressing?

I have to admit that tater tot 'sandwich' does look delectable. Just wish I could still eat stuff like that - a little knowledge (about calories, salt, nitrates, fat, my age, etc.) is sometimes a rotten thing. I have several waffle irons (and yes, an Oster is one of them - cheap but works just fine) - and am always trying to see what I can make in them that isn't too guilt-making. Unfortunately, they wilt salad! I adore tater tots - so I refuse to buy them any more or I 'would' eat them. But perhaps if I were to try some kind of version that didn't use store-bought tater tots (home-shredded potato with spices and a sprinkle of good oil might give me a similar result), and which used a better cheese, maybe added a few fresh tomato slices, and just a hint of bacon, I could get the experience of the aforementioned sandwich without as much of a 'hangover'. I am pretty sure you are right, Smithy - that has to be pre-cooked bacon (though I guess one could pre-cook one's own and not rely on a boxed grocery store version).

Thanks for that lengthy rundown, Francois. What eastern Canadian (at least from eastern Ontario and Quebec) has not been to a St. Hubert, I wonder. I think it has become an institution. My daughter grew up going there a lot - I figured St. Hubert was a better alternative 'fast food' than McDonalds when I didn't feel like cooking - and 'free' Toblerone bars at Christmas didn't hurt either. I used to like their sauce a lot myself - till they started canning it (and drying it) and I found out what it was made of - at least in those forms. Unfortunately, I don't think those are the original sauce ingredients anymore since it became a chain. But, hey, once in a while one must have poutine (or just chips and gravy) and I agree theirs is delicious. I haven't been to Piri Piri but may try to find it when I am next in downtown Montreal - based on your recommendation. Thanks. However, of your list, the one that interests me the most is probably Piazza Pazza. More my style of food I think. I see it has generally good reviews and anything on the south side or the west side (i.e. Dollard des Ormeaux) is probably easier for me to find and get to these days unless I take a train into downtown. Stash's serves delicious Polish food (some with some Hungarian and other eastern European influences) - perogies, cabbage rolls, paprikash, etc. and they were very good but for me the very best thing on their menu used to be the apple cake. It is located near the theatre I used to have a season subscription to attend so it was very convenient for dinner before or after. I have very fond memories of that place. Mind you, their food is not what I would call 'spicy' - and these days I prefer Thai foods which are more colourful, bright, cooked a la minute, and at least moderately spicy - but, were I in the mood for something more 'old school' I would definitely seek out Stash's again. Anyway, welcome to eGullet again. I hope you will like it here and post a lot.

Bienvenue a eGullet, Francois. I would love to hear what your favorite restaurants are in Montreal - and what specialties they have that have inspired you. Have you ever been to Au Pied de Cochon? How about to Stash's in old Montreal? Those used to be a couple of my favorites - and I believe both still exist even though I have not been to them for decades now.

I have avoided all 'processed' chicken (and other meat) products for a long time now and urge everyone else to do the same if possible - particularly if you are feeding these things to your kids. Many adults don't even eat this stuff any more - we prefer a non-pre-regurgitated dinner - kids are the largest audience for these products, and they are being fed to them in schools and fast food joints, often where parents don't even know what they are eating. The 'processing' part may be (is most likely) done in China these days and not marked as such - because they no longer have to be, by law. This is globalisation 'progress' at its best. We simply cannot adequately monitor the quality of processed foods, particularly meats, when parts of the process are completed thousands of miles outside our borders - for the sake of 'profit'. We have a hard enough time doing that when things are completely domestically prepared. If one must eat frozen chicken bits, at least insist on making them whole meat parts (like tenders that haven't been pre-ground and formed).

Oh dear. I usually love Bourdain's culinary adventures but definitely won't be watching that one. Thanks for the warning though.

I don't think we have any Restaurant Depot stores in Canada at all but I am fairly sure that if there is one, it won't be anywhere near Naramata BC.

On the surface, the fact that fruit and vegetables are now consumed in much higher quantities than at any time before (in the years this info applies) and allegedly that consumption of flours, fats, pastries, sugars, etc. has gone way down too seems like a Jamie Oliver dream - but it really does make me wonder what the average Brit is eating these days because Jamie is still screaming at the masses (and particularly at schoolchildren) I think - and as Anna says, obesity has increased dramatically as far as I know over there as well as here in NA. Is this caused more by a change in demographics (increasing immigration perhaps - which then changes the kinds of foods that are eaten within a larger sector of the population but not necessarily - at least immediately - in the previously existing population) than by the average British person deciding to change traditional eating habits? Perhaps rice or noodles have replaced potatoes? Perhaps Chinese or Indian takeaway meals which contain little meat have replaced pork pies? It may be true that some traditions have gone by the wayside - perhaps that large Sunday roast dinner with Yorkshire pudding, etc. is a less frequent event in most households and maybe they have cut down a bit on the fish and chips - but, I really don't think most people (especially in busy cities) are now cooking (unprocessed foods) at home from scratch each day and consciously taking in far more fruits and vegetables and dumping the carbs and fats. Something doesn't quite jive here - though of course it all looks good on paper. I'm more inclined to think that there is some 'replacement' going on here that is not indicated (i.e. categories of foods that are missing) rather than what the data pretends to indicate - a move toward healthier eating.

Welcome to eGullet, Craig. (A good name by the way - it was my father's as well.) Other than ice cream, what are your favorite kinds of foods to prepare? I look forward to seeing your questions - and I am sure I will learn something from you as well.

Thanks, Nicolai. It all sounds like a wonderful experience (and a memory to be cherished). I guess I will just have to live it vicariously through your description/pictures and my imagination after all. Glad you had the real life one though. I modified my post above to add a 'no' in front of problem (re- sitting on the ground, etc.) but I should qualify that a bit more given your further admission that it is not that comfortable. It USED to be fairly easy for me to do that (I have done it - at least the ground sitting part - a number of times while being treated to native potlatches in the far north) - but I am getting older now and am nowhere near as flexible as I once was. I might get down but staying cross-legged for a fair time without fidgeting - and then getting back up again - would be challenging now I am sure. I have tried the rice eating technique you talk about in the privacy of my own home - alone - because I was curious (this is not the first time I have heard of it) and I grant you it is not that easy. Luckily I am right handed - were I not I am sure it would be even more difficult than it was. Given that, from what I understand, one is also not permitted to use the other hand to assist at any time, which I found myself tempted to do when I tried it, I would definitely need a lot of practice before trying it in public. This is not easily compactible starchy sushi rice. I admire the fact that you managed it at all - even if difficult (and you required a 'bib' of some sort). Good luck with the Mansaf meal. I hope you manage to get pics of that one too. Looking forward to hearing about it when you have the chance to try it.

Speaking of foraging, gfron1, how much explanation do you go into in the book about the 'safety' aspects/basics of same (i.e. the need to be absolutely certain that you are identifying the correct plant, in the correct and safe environment, at the correct time of year, etc. and then always use the correct preparation method ... for instance with things like pokeweed, which must be boiled at least twice)? And to wait (unless you are experienced and certain about a particular plant) at least a week before actually tasting something (reaffirming that you are certain that it is the correct plant) and tasting very sparingly again till you are certain that even if it is a generally safe edible plant (and there are over 120,000 of them in the world but only a few we can buy at the grocery store or even farmer's markets, often for good reason), that you as an individual are not allergic or sensitive to it or some property in it that others may not have a problem with. Just yesterday I was reading something by a guy named Dan Greene (I think - didn't save the link) and while he encourages people to learn to forage (as I know you do, and I do - I love to do it but it does intimidate me to run across a new plant and not be absolutely certain what I am looking at), he pointed out a few things I didn't know - though you probably do. One in particular (I think it was in his article or perhaps one that his lead me to) was the fact that many plants that are technically the same in the northern parts of the US/Canada never have a chance to differentiate because of shorter growing seasons and may indeed look very different from the same plant growing in the south (and that the southern version may also have more than one growing season per year, and that 'place' is also something one must know about - a cactus may be seen growing in water occasionally or perhaps a water plant may be found in what appears to be a sand hole - but both may be what they appear to be nonetheless). Foraging is often not as simple as it may seem in other words - there are rules and there are rules that may be broken in any particular area. It is critical for people to have a specific knowledge of plants in their own area - and a good guide that also comes from that particular area, not a general one or even a website reference - and, if they are new, to go out if possible with a local expert and to watch them actually taste the plant in front of you - so you gain confidence in the safety of that particular plant. I am certain you wrote knowledgably about foraging - and with the intent to have people not be scared of it - in fact, I hope, to inspire them to be excited about the whole prospect and what one can do with foraged ingredients - but, I expect it was a difficult section to write, no?

Just as an aside, I can almost guarantee that you, Barney, have far more wild yeasts in your kitchen than I do right now. I have no bananas or other fruit on my counter, and no potatoes hanging around either. I have not made bread two or more times a week for months as you have said you are doing. And, not only are there two people who spend time in your kitchen (presumably your wife visits there once in a while) while I am alone here, but, I expect you are a larger person than I am (in other words, you have more skin area which means you carry more wild yeasts on your person than I probably do). And while you are not using whole grain flours, there may be less but there is still some wild yeast presence in the flour itself. Where I am right now, I have only a small amount of flour and it is well wrapped and still sealed - and in fact, is nowhere near my kitchen. Were I to make bread following your exact methodology today, I am fairly certain I would have far fewer wild yeasts competing for dominance in my starter than you probably do. My wild yeasts though, however few there are, would most likely be also of very different strains than yours. If I were to use exactly the same recipe, ingredients, method, breadmaker, everything exactly as you do, my bread would taste (at least subtly) different than yours, even if I lived next door to you .. because of the wild yeasts. At any rate, I think you might be amazed at how much 'wild yeast' there is all around you - and hence how much 'wild yeast' may have settled into your 4 day commercial yeast starter and begun to grow. I'd be very surprised if there were only a few errant wild yeast(ies) lurking in your vicinity ready to invade your experiment. Time and temperature are probably the only reasons your starter had not become very sourdough-y tasting - had you left it longer and continued to feed it and/or had you changed the temperature significantly during the fermentation period that most likely would have happened as the wild yeast strains gained strength. In any event, you will always have some wild yeast in your breads - it just isn't dominant as quickly when you both use commercial yeast at first and then end the experiment early (and particularly if you use commercial yeast and a bread mixer which rapidly converts the bread mixture into a baked finished loaf). If you don't want a strong sourdough taste (and as I have said not all sourdoughs are even recognizable to the average palate as being sourdough even if they are) that is fine - but to deny that wild yeasts are there at all is not plausible (or smart if you want to 'understand' what is happening so you can replicate it reasonably consistently over time). It is all a delicate balance between the 'flavour' that wild yeasts can provide through their ability to 'sour' the dough a little or a lot, and the amount of leavening you want, the amount of yeast you use and the amount the atmosphere provides, along with time and temperature - just to mention a few variables. Have you tested the pH of your starter? That might be one way to see what is happening over time vis a vis the wild yeast 'takeover' (or not). Sourdough pHs are generally much lower (aka more acidic) than those of commercial yeast preparations. You may want to read this article about the difference between wild and commercial yeasts. http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/howdowildandcommercialyeas.html But, speaking of 'fermentation' period, why did you decide to use the starter when it began to smell like alcohol? Starter goes through many phases (as it 'ferments', producing alcohol and CO2) - and will have different smells along the way - and many people might have waited till later in the process to use their starter (later than the alcoholic smell phase) ... so what made you decide that was the optimum time to make bread from it? I have been making bread for many years, in many places, in many ways - but I am a mere amateur - and i am definitely not a 'scientist' but an 'intuitive' cook. I have made many mistakes - still do - and I learn from them (usually) and from the advice of others. I simply have an enquiring mind - as I am sure you do too or you would not be conducting this 'experiment'. As blue_dolphin pointed out - the best thing about eGullet is that we share our culinary experiences and experiments here - so rather than just get mad at people here who have asked questions or tried to share their personal experiences or insight or knowledge (or all three), and suggesting you may withhold your insights or results if we don't cooperate as you seem to want us to - why don't you just try to have a bit more of an open mind and heart. You may indeed discover some new thing that has eluded scientists and bakers for eons - we are open to that possibility and if it happens and you let us know, I am sure we will applaud your success. But, getting to that discovery may actually be made a bit quicker and/or easier by taking in/acknowledging there could be much value in the combined wisdom/knowledge/experiences some here have offered you and not discarding it out of hand.

Barney - Not much I can say to that theory of yours except a) you may want to be careful about using politics to describe anything here on this forum and b) did you know that foods that contain oils (particularly foods like cake or biscuit mixes for instance) can be rancid even if you cannot taste or smell rancidity when you eat them? That (b) may sound a bit odd to say when the topic is yeast - wild and commercial - but, my point is that just because you cannot see or (yet) taste them (wild yeasts), how can you be certain they are not there?

Did you make those, Nicolai? And, if so, I would love to hear more about the methodology - a general ingredient list anyway if possible, and about how it was cooked in the ground (coals in a pit with the food wrapped in foil? and covered with dirt? for how long?). The food looks absolutely amazing - and has me salivating - but there is no way this woman can or will go to the Middle East to have some - so is it possible in North America to replicate it, do you think? I will start digging a hole in my backyard if it is! And I have NO problem with sitting barefoot on the dirt to eat with my fingers either. I agree with Anna. Michelin can keep their stars. What do they know about 'real food'? edited: forgot a 'no' in front of problem! oops.

And a picture is worth a thousand words. Let's see pictures of what you call your rotten 'starter yeast' concoction, please. I guess you have achieved your objective already - proving one could save a few pennies on dry yeast. It is fantastic to learn that is indeed possible. All that stuff I read about it on the web was just theory I guess - but you proved it could be done! Bravo! And, it is great to learn that you have 'invented' sourdough! Congratulations. I still don't quite get why you insist on calling a 'yeast starter' ... 'starter yeast' - as though they were different somehow. If they are, why/how are they different? I am still puzzled.

While I would hope the price might drop if sales of this Adventurer microwave take off in the US, I might well be interested because of all the car travelling I do. If it could 'cook' (rather than just heat up) a meal for me in the car - even just one - before the battery runs out (I could recharge it at night or maybe someone will invent a lithium battery 'solar' or car charger), it might be a fun and potentially useful gadget to have.

kayb - But, is the dough (for Krispy Cremes) prepared on site (even if they fry the doughnuts there) or is it pre-made and trucked in? Around here I have never seen a 'fresh' Krispy Crème doughnut - they all come in bags in the grocery store and are marked with expiration dates at least a week away. Occasionally I have seen them in truckstops/gas stations - where they put a light on that warms up rows of single doughnuts in a case to give the impression that they might be 'fresh'. I know they are not made there, or even fried/baked there however. I once, years back, did eat a Krispy Crème doughnut that may have been completely made on site - maybe even from scratch as opposed to using a mix (when the chain was new) - it was ok but I found it disappeared when I bit into it - there wasn't much except air (and sweetness) there - but then I prefer a cake doughnut most of the time since it has some substance so perhaps I am biased. I also know (because I have to know what soy ingredients may be lurking in everything so I ask) that 'freshly baked' bread at the grocery store (or any bakery product there for that matter) may be 'hot from their ovens' but the dough is trucked in - and most of the time, the so-called 'bakers' don't even have a clue about the ingredients in a loaf/bun/whatever - that information can only be obtained when it spits out of their price marking/label machines for them. Real bakeries (particularly small niche ones) DO still make their products, usually from scratch, as far as I know - but chains of most kinds are after mass profits (and consistency across their distributors/resellers, etc.) as opposed to highlighting hand-made quality these days.

These days I doubt if there is any (coffee/doughnut) chain of any significant size that doesn't do exactly what you say you heard that Dunkin' Donuts now does, Shel - have their doughnuts made elsewhere, frozen and brought in 'fresh' every day or two. I would be very surprised to hear that, in anything other than a small proprietorship, that there were bakers on site arising at 3 a.m. saying - 'it's time to make the doughnuts' - any more.

Shain ... Is this a family recipe, a modified one from another source or one you devised completely on your own? The biscotti look scrumptious.

Thank you, Elsie! I wish I still had mine. Perhaps one day I will succumb and buy another used copy if I run across one. That book was the start of my amazing (haha) culinary career - and I got it via a cookbook of the month club when I was just a new wife (a little over 18 years old) in the Yukon. Over several years I think I made almost everything in that book though getting all the ingredients for some of them was tough up there back then. I used to beg my mother-in-law to please bring me back various 'groceries' when she went to Vancouver on vacation (as she and my father-in-law seemed to do quite often). I guess I remembered a few small details incorrectly or I morphed them slightly over the years but darn that is/was a great recipe (at least in my estimation) - and its memory is still the basis for cheesecakes I make today - over 45 years later. If you haven't tried it, I hope you will sometime. I think I have measured every cheesecake I have consumed in my life since against that first one I made from that book. It was such a revelation because till then I had never had cheesecake that didn't come from a box (and wasn't baked). People I had over for dinner parties raved about it - I guess I was not the only one who had never tasted 'real cheesecake' before! p.s. Is there a recipe for pickled shrimp in that book too? If so, that is another I probably make slightly differently now, but it was a hit back then and I still make it from 'memory' so to speak. If not, it probably came from another one of the 'book of the month club' books - but not one as memorable as Great Dinners from Life.

I love cheesecake therefore I rarely make it any more since any size recipe will only serve one - me. That said, the first time I made (a baked) cheesecake, I used the Great Dinners from LIfe recipe. I don't recall (and I unfortunately do not have a copy of that wonderful book any more) it saying you must use a water bath at all so I have never used one. Yes, I got a few cracks on the top from time to time but, for me, that is part of the charm of a cheesecake. I prefer to make it in a springform pan but a cake pan will do fine too (though it is harder to get it out in one piece obviously). When I do make cheesecake however, I don't use a recipe any more - rather, I simply imagine that first Great Dinners cake (which turned out so perfectly, it is my 'standard' ever since) and recall that it used ricotta, sour cream and cream cheese - all three. I mix about a pound or a bit more of cream cheese, a small container of sour cream and a similar size container of ricotta together with (usually 2) eggs, a bit of sugar (I don't like it too sweet so I start with about a quarter of a cup and adjust from there), a pinch of salt and teaspoon or so of vanilla (and a bit of lemon juice usually), and the final ingredient, a 1/4 cup or so of melted butter. I mix everything up till it s smooth. I taste the concoction to be sure it tastes like my taste memory - and check that the consistency is thick but pourable. I then throw it into the oven (on top of a crust of some type usually - crust varies but I have used a flourless/nut-based crust, shortbread or graham cracker conventional ones) at about 300 degrees F for an hour, turn off the oven, leave for another hour, remove from oven and set on counter for an hour and then refrigerate. I have often also used a lower fat (but NOT fat free) cream cheese (or Neuchatel). Haven't had one 'fail' yet though I have to say that apparently there are different formulations for cream cheese and ricotta these days (or perhaps just in some areas of the country) and a few times the result has been a bit gritty in texture as (I think) because of the ingredient differences. I have also heard speculation that the 'difference' that caused the grittiness was just that one ingredient or another may have been previously frozen (either in transit or in the store - who knows). As I said, I don't unfortunately have that Great Dinners recipe any more but it may also have used a bit of cornstarch. I had to make a cake years ago for a friend who had celiac disease so my modification for her was to leave out anything I was not sure would meet her dietary needs - so I made the nut crust and left out the cornstarch - and it turned out so well that I no longer use cornstarch, if I ever did. I have made this cake from ice cold (though of course it is easier to mix cream cheese when it is warmer) ingredients and from room temperature ingredients too - never have been really consistent about ensuring all ingredients were the same temperature - and haven't really noticed that this made any real difference in this 'recipe'. I have found 'cheesecake' to be one of the most flexible and forgiving 'cakes' I have ever made. I know however that people are very finicky sometimes about what, for them, constitutes the 'perfect cheesecake'. I say ... experiment till you find a recipe you like and stick with it whatever it may be!

My mother would have loved that very fast and simple microwave kipper technique, Naguere - but, back when she was alive and making them for Dad, unfortunately we had no such thing as a microwave. It sounds ideal though so should I ever happen again onto 'real' kippers (per Liuzhou's apt commentary), I will try it your way.

Sounds delicious but a bottle of ketchup mixed with a jar of grape jelly is simpler still. Throw it over a bunch of meatballs and, at least in Texas where I learned that trick, a party magically happens.