Pan

I can't figure out why my parents hated this place. I wasn't with them and haven't been to Regional yet, so I can't offer a personal opinion, but they said their meal was so terrible that they think anyone who likes the place must be an idiot. I don't think that really counts as an ad hominem insult because they aren't eGullet Society members and don't know any of you. But I'm curious whether any members have actually had a genuinely lousy meal there. My parents don't buy the idea that their ordering wrong could explain the quality of their meal, and I do respect their knowledge and opinion of Italian food a great deal, but I also respect you all. I'm not sure whether I should have shared this, but it's been gnawing at me a little.

I find that very hard to believe, in your case. Look how evenly you chop vegetables! All the food you cooked tonight looks excellent! It's a funny sensation to look at pictures of Harry Oppenheimer's butcher shop, because that was my parents' local butcher shop from before I can remember. They do have some good stuff, but my father's problem with them was that they didn't carry really good organic free-range chickens (Bell & Evans doesn't impress us much, as they tend to have a noticeable cod liver oil taste) and it used to be tough to get the butchers to cut off fat for my father's low-fat diet ("Fat is good!"). But whenever my folks had the money for better than supermarket meat, Harry was the usual source for chop meat, lamb, roast beef, flanken, and of course soup bones, which they used to give us for free. Harry was a crotchety old German World War II vet, and now a younger guy is running the store and it's been brightened up and such.

Went to dinner here tonight with a friend. We shared the white kidney bean appetizer, which was great, and also a main dish whose name I forget, which was basically small pieces of lamb and rice. That great flatbread was just the right thing to eat the white bean dish in. It included tomatoes, onions, and just a bit of green pepper. Everything had a nice fragrant but only moderately spicy kind of Yemeni masala (I don't know the Arabic word for that) in it. I also enjoyed the hot sauce and Yemeni tea as usual. We stayed and talked and drank tea for a long time, so I tipped high. The bill was only $20 for the two of us. I really like this place and was glad to have a chance to go back.

That Shopsin's menu is sick! But one thing I'd caution everyone about is that some very good Korean restaurants have long menus. OK, I don't think any of them could touch that 12-pager, but 6 pages wouldn't be out of line.

TP, why don't you try making a simulacrum of the old-style non-translucent pancake-like roti canai that I used to love so much, the way the mamak guy with the griddle made it on the street near the Pasar Chow Kit back in the 70s? I still think the old way was better, and I'm sorry I can't get it anymore.

I may be wrong, but I feel like there's an overemphasis on the star ratings in the guide. Michelin guides have never been just about star ratings; mere inclusion in the book is a recommendation. So how about if we have more and more detailed discussion of this: Forgetting the star ratings for a moment, do you or do you not find the sum total of included restaurants to be a pretty credible list? Also, which restaurants do you think shouldn't have been included, and which do you think absolutely should have been included and weren't? Finally, I think it will be interesting to see how they rate hotel restaurants.

When I hear that, I think you're serving liquor or at least you have a brew 'n burger type of place.

I had an odd thought. Would Sri work? Do they use that honorific in Thai?

Yes, I believe you did. But is LA dining truly less interesting than San Francisco dining? Well, I suppose we'd be best off not getting into that discussion on the New York forum...

New York Daily News article: "City's 4 hottest pushcart chefs vie for 1st Vendy Award"

Cholent, maybe?

And of course if you want to keep it simple, just sautee them in extra virgin olive oil with garlic, as you would do with spinach, swiss chard or any other type of green, leafy vegetable, and serve them as a contorno.

I don't find the starred restaurants nearly as surprising as some of the unstarred restaurants that are included. Maybe we can talk about some of those. Here are the ones I've been to: August -- Lovely little cafe. Merits a mention. Aquavit, but too long ago for my judgment to count. Banjara -- always good food in my experience, but the service I got the last time I was there turned me off for good. Questionable to include, I think. Is it partly that the place is a bit fancy for the East Village? Becco -- I'm not a fan, but that's based on only one visit and most other Society members who've been there have liked it, so their inclusion is not strange. Boathouse Central Park. Is there something to recommend about the food, or is it included just because of the picturesque location? I know Michelin considers views from restaurants worth special note. Bouley. No comment necessary here. Café Mogador -- reliable, pleasant neighborhood restaurant with a wine list and good desserts. Ambiance something like that of a crowded cafe in Montmartre. Casa Mono. Plenty of discussion in the Casa Mono thread. Yes, it's a natural for inclusion. Chanterelle, too long ago to count. Cho Dang Gol -- very good Korean restaurant specializing in dishes with artisanal tofu. Informal and cheap for lunch, classy and more upscale at dinner. (They lower the lights.) I'm glad they included it. Craft. No comment necessary here. Eleven Madison Park, already discussed above. Felidia, but I went for Restaurant Week lunch and too long ago to be very relevant. Flor's Kitchen. Now this one is kind of odd. It's OK, but I'm not sure it really merits inclusion. I see they didn't include the tiny Caracas Arepa Bar, which I consider a better value. Then again, Michelin does care somewhat about the difference between a relatively cramped small restaurant and a tiny shoebox, I suppose. Fuleen Seafood. We've had discussion of this place. Apparently, they tend to do poorly in health inspections, for one thing. On the other hand, their food can be very good. Gnocco. East Village neighborhood restaurant with one terrific dessert. I could go either way on their being included. Golden Unicorn. I've gone there many times for dim sum, never for dinner. It's OK. Grand Sichuan Eastern. What? No Grand Sichuan International 50 St., St. Marks, or 24 St.? Great N. Y. Noodletown. Nice to see that they're including some places where you can eat really cheaply and enjoy yourself. Il Cortile. I went there a few years ago for dinner and found it quite acceptable. It's on Mulberry St. in "Little Italy." JoJo -- haven't been lately. Lavagna -- good, classy neighborhood restaurant on 5 St. near Av. B. Nice wine list, cafe/bar ambiance. Belongs. L'Ecole -- quality of meal undoubtedly depends on where the students are in their curriculum. L'Impero -- discussed above. Lupa -- another restaurant that might have gotten a star? Too informal for one? Mandarin Court -- went several years ago for dim sum and was not impressed. Molyvos. Liked it. Mosto. Interesting if the Michelin inspectors found the place good. I stopped going after they attempted to serve a very strongly off-smelling piece of fish to my brother and then claimed they had just gotten it that morning. Nice Restaurant. OK Cantonese food; some is interesting, some isn't. Dependable. Included because there are many banquets there?? Nyonya. Haven't been lately. I'm not satisfied with Malaysian food in New York, but that's a topic for another thread. Oriental Garden. Good seafood, many satisfied eGullet members. Ouest, probably too long ago to count for much. Pongsri Thai. Some of my meals have been better than others, and I think that different branches may be of different quality, though I don't go to any often enough to do a ranking. I wonder which branches are listed in Michelin. Savoy. Loved it, but that was probably almost 6 years ago. Second Avenue Deli. Haven't been lately. Shun Lee Palace. Soured on it, but that has been a couple of years now. Soba Ya. Liked the place when I went. Artisanal soba, kind of classy ambiance. I understand why it's listed. Sunrise 27. I think this is the place where they were smoking in the restaurant and wouldn't stop. That's a dealbreaker with me, but some of the Europeans using the Michelin guide would like that. The food was good, though. Sweet-n-Tart Restaurant. I've discussed this place on the Sweet 'n Tart thread. Yes, it belongs, with all the other Chinese restaurants listed. But where in the world is Congee Village in that list? Union Square Café, but not very recently. Further discussion above. Vong, but not recently. Yangpyung Seoul. I've liked it. Pretty informal. In Brooklyn: Peter Luger (discussed above). Queen. I went a couple of years ago for a slightly pricey but good lunch. It belongs. River Café. I guess they didn't like the food enough for a star. I'm sure it gets points for the incredible panorama. Queens: Jackson Diner. Very tasty food, a bit pricey but worth it. Avoid the weekend buffet and get food to order. Sripraphai (discussed above). I'm a bit overwhelmed at the number of restaurants they included and also salute them for putting in as many inexpensive "ethnic"/neighborhood restaurants as they did. It seems to me that their Chinese selections are a little too skewed toward Chinatown below Canal St. and the Manhattan Bridge Overpass, and I wonder why they didn't include Woo Chon and Kang Suh among their Korean selections. Also, the absence of Katz's is a glaring error, to my mind. Let's pick apart the places they did include and those that they didn't include but which you think should be included by the same apparent standards they used to determine inclusion. I'd be interested in discussions of some of the restaurants on their list that I've never heard of. But leaving aside the question of which places got stars and how many, just looking at the restaurants I know something about, I don't feel like ridicule of the guide -- because it was produced by a tire company, or for some other reason -- is warranted. It seems to me, they did a lot of work and produced a credible list of restaurants.

Steve, I'm sure we could think up numerous other banquet scenes in operas. Mozart's Don Giovanni comes to mind immediately. I suppose someone could start a thread on the topic of operas that have food or drinking scenes (which reminds me of the bar scenes in La Boheme and Carmen...).

None immediately occurs to me, but if one did, I wouldn't mention it, because such a mention would amount to an ad hominem attack. So I think your arch question will have to remain rhetorical.

Just because they're in a can doesn't mean they weren't good. Canned tomatoes can be really excellent in tomato sauces for pasta and so forth.

Selamat Hari Raya, Yetty. Yum!

What's the difference between a pancake and a fritter? Are Shanghai-style scallion pancakes really a fritter?

I read an article on Ha'aretz that might be relevant to aspects of the discussion in this thread: More milk means more udder pain for cows Here's an illustrative paragraph: Also mentioned are numerous hoof problems, including "abscesses that erupt inside the hoof."

Kaffir is pretty much a no-go, because in South Africa and various other places, it's a slur against black Africans that's as bad as "nigger" and has many of the same connotations of enslavement. I'm drawing a blank on names, though.

Ah Leung, I'm not familiar with the hairy moss fungus. What's the texture like? Taste? Also, is it possible to use the stems of the mushrooms for stock instead of discarding them?

Ummmm.....yes? No? Maybe? I looked it up, and yes, it's the same. In Morocco it's commonly known as "Eid el Kbir" (sorry, I put an "h" where it didn't belong in my earlier post), "Kbir" meaning "big". ← Interesting. In Malaysia and Indonesia, both of the Eid are big (Raya).

Is Eid el Khbir the same as Eid el Adha (the feast of the Haj or Hari Raya Haji, as it's called in Malay)?

Nice stuff, Yetty! Do you know where the blueberries come from? Australia, perhaps?

Judy, welcome to the eGullet Society! I would suggest that you look through these search results of a site search of topics in the China forum with "Beijing" in the title. If you would like more recommendations, please feel free to ask in a relevant thread. For what it's worth, I had wonderful Beijing ka ya at the Li Family Restaurant, but that's really high-end cuisine. Here are pictures from the second-best place, which was way cheaper....But back to food histories of non-Toysan people. (And, in case you didn't realize it, there is a thread on the Food Histories of the Toysan People and also one that starts with Ben Hong's wonderful Childhood memories of a Toysan Village. I thought that particularly since you're Toysanese, you'd want to know.)