Robenco15
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Posts posted by Robenco15
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5 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:
Second-Chance Levain Detroit-Style Dough (KM p. 81)
This is a recipe where the second-chance levain method really shines. The original Detroit dough is just a simple direct dough: adding the inactive levain gives the dough a great depth of flavor without compromising the texture of the crust. I've also come to the conclusion that their baking times for the Detroit dough are off. Their recipe calls for baking at 480°F for 20 minutes when using a convection oven, but I'm baking for literally half that. I pulled tonight's pizza after ten minutes, and I'd say it was perfectly cooked.
The toppings tonight are a riff on their "Spring has Sprung Pizza" (KM p. 308) -- their recipe uses ricotta as the "sauce", pizza cheese next, and has asparagus and morels on top, plus an egg put on halfway through baking. I didn't have enough ricotta, so mine is a half ricotta/half creme fraiche sauce. Also, it's not spring here in the northern hemisphere, so no morels, I used oyster mushrooms. And no egg, because I didn't think it would work well on a Detroit-style crust. Still, it was delicious: I don't know where Imperfect Foods got these asparagus, but they were enormous, and fantastic.
What size pan are you using? I’m getting one for xmas.
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Last week I made chicken stock. This weekend I'll make the turkey stock using the chicken stock as the base. That's probably it for this weekend. Then I'll shop and make some stuff this week before I host friends on the 20th. Smoking turkey breasts, confit the legs, sweet potato au gratin, Turkey Jus Gra in place gravy. Vanilla creme brulee for dessert made with vanilla sugar. Other stuff. Will be good.
I got the call up from my Aunt to make the gravy for the large family Thanksgiving which is kind of a big deal (in only my mind, lol). Excited about that. The ChefSteps Turkey Gravy is by far the best gravy I've ever had or made. It's easily the best part of the entire meal, and the meal is great.
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37 minutes ago, rotuts said:
yes , you do not need a steam oven to back bread
any bread
if you want the ' spring ' during initial baking
a pad in the oven , under the baking rack will do the trick
toss oin an ice cube or two when you stark baki9ng your loaf.
Thank you! Great tips!
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7 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:
I wouldn't have described it as particularly "dense", just chewy, in much the same way a sourdough bread is typically chewier than commercially-leavened.
Ah yes, dense was my word. Looking at the cornicione it just didn't rise as much as I'm used to, but I think I do remember the crust being a touch chewy. I kinda enjoyed that as it was like having a Neapolitan pizza and a good piece of sourdough bread all at once! But I get your point for sure.
My starter is really strong right now after a week of restarting it so this weekend I'm going to use it for this recipe.
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1 minute ago, Chris Hennes said:
There are plenty of workarounds for not having a steam oven: I almost never bake bread in one, and a quick glance through this topic will show that my results are reasonably respectable. Steam is most beneficial for French lean bread: if you're worried about it, there are other recipes in there to try
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Thank you, thank you, thank you. I can't tell you how nice it was to receive this reply. I greatly appreciate it! I CANNOT wait to get these books. This is going to be a good winter!
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Giving serious thought about getting Modernist Bread for Xmas. I have a modern double oven with convection and everything, but I don’t have a steam oven. Is not having a steam oven a deal breaker with these books? Are there serviceable work arounds they recommend?
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3 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:
Levain-Based Neapolitan Dough (KM p. 80)
They provide recipes for levain-based versions of their nine basic doughs, so tonight I made Neapolitan-style pizza with levain instead of commercial yeast. It's an easy dough to work with and shape, with good flavor, but the texture is a bit chewier than I prefer in pizza.
That’s really odd it’s so dense and chewy. I’ve made a lot of levain Neapolitan doughs and haven’t had that issue. Will have to try it. Your Levain good/strong?
This one is a levain based Neapolitan.
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2 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:
Gluten-Free Neapolitan Crust (KM p. 103)
I did not have high hopes for this one, it's hard to imagine a successful Neapolitan-style pizza without gluten. Thus, my hopes and dreams were not crushed when this pizza was... marginally edible. I mean, it was clearly pizza. Of some kind. And the sauce was good (this was the Modernist Neapolitan, so just crushed tomatoes, salt, and a tiny bit of xanthan gum). The crust? Not my favorite. I think it might have promise in their thin-crust variant, but I can't recommend making the Neapolitan, even if you have to be gluten free. Pick something else.
Basically no rim, and very, very minimal rise:
The slight char that tastes good on a regular Neapolitan pie is sort of gross here (and of course it doesn't do the "leoparding" thing):
That’s disgusting. It’s not you. It’s the recipe/concept. Man, thanks for taking one for the team.
This is a Pork, Onion, Spicy Chimichurri NY direct dough. Awesome. Just made a Poolish for the Artisan dough for Friday pizzas.
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3 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:
Try a chamber vacuum sealer as Chris suggested.
Lol outside of eGullet (I guess?) that’s not a very common tool to have in the kitchen. I don’t have $1k, the space, or the wife (!) to allow for that kind of purchase, haha. I’m sure it’s a great technique though.
It comes down to the flour and technique though. I achieved full hydration with the high hydration dough, just need to get better shaping it and for the NY adding the whole wheat complicated things in a way I didn’t expect. I guess the chamber vac could have helped there but who knows.
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Made the high hydration Neapolitan dough the other night with 50% Pizzeria and 50% Super Nuvola. Had a gorgeous fully gluten developed ball for the bulk fermentation. Then when it came to ball it was just so difficult. That damn Super Nuvola really ups the difficultly at that hydration. The 100% Pizzeria is a light and beautiful pillow when all is said and done. Anyway, I’m keeping the balls in the fridge and just doing one a night or so. Did one tonight. Stuck on the peel during launch and have me an oval, but actually tasted great. Had a soft but crispy outer crust and a light and fluffy inner cornicione. That damn Super Nuvola is good!
Made the direct NY dough tonight. Got cute with it and added 25% whole wheat flour with the 75% breas flour. May be regretting that as kneading it to full gluten development was nearly impossible. I’m sure it’ll work out in the end. Going to divide into 400g and 609g balls and throw in the fridge for a few days. Should be great.
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3 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:
I now use the wooden peel exclusively to rotate the pizza (in the Ooni, anyway), and a larger stainless steel model for launch and extraction. On the thinner doughs I have a hard time getting the wooden peel under the raw pie in the first place, which is what prompted the purchase of the steel model. I've gotten much better at that in the intervening weeks, it's been a while since the last real failure in that regard.
That’s completely backwards but it it works for you, awesome. I’m going to get a GI Metals peel for launching and turning larger pizzas. I use a turning peel for Neapolitan and smaller ones, but after doing all of these larger ones I need something better than the cheap aluminum one I have.
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Sausage, Pepper, Onion, Broccali Rabe, Mozzarella, Ricotta
Artisan Dough with Poolish
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Some flours lend themselves better to long ferment times as well. Caputo Super Nuvola was literally made for long ferments. It’s possible with more common flours though, just gotta toy with it. Maybe a day if bulk ferment before balling.
If doing a long cold ferment I like to give it a chance at RT for up to 4 hours to help it get started as the amount of yeast is so small. It happens though. That Tokyo Marinara above was fermented a day too long. Life can get in the way of pizza.
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Made the direct Artisan Dough yesterday for tonight. Was awesome. Smell is incredible. Also did the pizza sauce but next time I’ll actually measure everything. Was great, just got lazy. This is Fior di Latte chunks, shredded mozzarella cheese, ricotta, and sausage. Working on honing in the oven temperature, but I think I got it with my second pizza (no pics of that one).
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9 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:
Did you get any good fireballs? Mine was very flamey
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So no balls of fire, but some early did spill over on a turn and ignited right away. It was like having a handle in the back of the stove as it burned off the stone. I just kept the pizza away from it and all was good.
Think I'm going to make the Artisan dough this week and maybe mess around with Caputo Flour with their Neapolitan recipe. This Tokyo Marinara used the Biga dough I made, but I let it go one day too long in the fridge. Didn't rise anywhere near as much as it should, so I may try a Biga dough again.
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Tokyo Marinara
This. Was. Great.
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18 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:
I have found an error in Modernist Pizza. On page 1-372, The Pizzaiolo Equation, the Stefan-Boltzmann law* is invoked to explain the relationship of baking temperature to thermal radiation. The error is in the sentence:
"In other words, when we are baking Neapolitan pizza at 400C/750F, the thermal radiation contribution is 16 times higher than if we reduce the baking temperature to 200C/390F."
Stefan-Boltzmann radiant emittance is indeed proportional to the 4th power of temperature, but thermodynamic temperature: temperature in degrees Kelvin, not temperature in degrees Celsius. Converting from Celsius to Kelvin and plugging the numbers into my trusty Windows calculator, I compute the thermal radiation contribution is 4 times higher** not 16 times higher when baking at 400C than at 200C.
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan–Boltzmann_law
**well, OK, 4.0968684856219297188148611063802 times higher
Yeah I’ve found a few. They’ll release an errata in the next year I’m sure
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10 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:
To which MP recipe does this equate? Caputo says their Chef's 00 is for a home oven. Whereas their blue 00 is for a commercial gas or wood fired oven. I don't have their blue. My understanding is the Chef's is higher protein than the blue.
Chef’s is higher than blue, but I’d use a bread flour in a home oven over it.
This equates to the Neapolitan dough recipe, but with bread flour and a home oven it won’t come out like a true Neapolitan, but it’s still stupid good. Here’s a pic from my home oven before my Ooni came in. It’s great, just not quite the same.
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18 minutes ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:
Joking aside, we bake in a wood oven in which floor heat registers 900F. I have two suggestions: dust your peel with rice flour, aka bakers' teflon. And use a hook device for immediately turning and repositioning your pizza on your aluminum sheet. Husband made such a tool by screwing a sharp cup-hook into a broom handle. Simple and brilliantly useful.
Who’s joking and why are you replying to me?
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9 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:
That's the technique I'm using: like I said, I'm just a coward
-- I'm stopping too soon, before the dough is really as large and thin as it should be.
You want to push the gas to the edges, while leaving the middle somewhat thick. Then when you stretch and open it the middle doesn’t get to thin. It’s not easy.
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3 minutes ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:
I need some handholding if anyone feels up to it. Haven't attempted pizza for some few months, not since the incident. For years my pizza has been made with 200g leftover poolish based bread dough, cold proofed for a day or three. Sometimes it turns out great. Just as often the center of the pizza remains on the peel and the remainder decorates the oven window.
My home oven goes to 550F and I bake on a (preheated for an hour) hard anodized aluminum sheet, one inch thick. For anyone wondering, a one inch thick aluminum sheet is one inch thick. Before I load the pizza I preheat the broiler, about two inches above the pie.
If the pizza actually makes it as far as the aluminum, I have about 90 seconds to two minutes before the bottom burns. An inch of hot aluminum delivers a lot of energy. In this time the top is often somewhat underdone, though this is a minor problem I can live with.
Given this information, what recipe should I be following, what hydration, and what flour should I be using? I like a firm bottom crust with a large and chewy rim. MP suggests ascorbic acid helps cold proofed dough from turning gray. I have yet to try it, though I have ascorbic acid in house.
My flour inventory includes several kilos each of Molino Grassi 00 organic, Molino Grassi semolina, Antimo Caputo Chef's, KA organic French style, KA organic all purpose, KA organic bread.* I don't feel up to stocking another flour. My bedroom** is only so big.
*This excludes rye and specialty flours.
**Many of the bags are stored in the living room and some on the landing of the stairs.
KA Bread Flour. At least 70% hydration, if not more. Since you’re using an aluminium sheet that gets crazy hot, 450 or 500 may be better and the boiler could help even it out. Absorbic Acid is used to keep black spots from developing in long cold ferments so I wouldn’t worry about using that.
Here’s a recipe from Elements of Pizza. Ignore the 00 flour thing. You don’t want that for a home oven.
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19 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:
I'd guess so: at least, Detroit is the dough I'd start with when experimenting.
They mean low-moisture mozzarella -- they call it "pizza cheese" to avoid any ambiguity with fresh mozzarella. You don't have to buy it pre-shredded, though, it's sold in bricks, too. They have a page on the anti-caking agents in volume 2 page 302 -- the upshot is that cellulose works well and doesn't affecting the melting much, whereas cornstarch messes things up.
Thank you! I have been buying Caputo Creamery Fior di Latte and their Fior di Pizzeria. Just don’t have a grater that gives those nice and large shreds. Highly recommend that cheese though. So far one time it shipped and got to me two days after ordering and most recently 22 hours after ordering. Incredible cheese and service.
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@Chris Henneswhat dough do you think it equivalent to a cast iron pan pizza? Detroit style going to give the same results?
Also, and I may have just missed this, but for the NY Pizza it calls for shredded pizza cheese. What exact cheese are they referring to? Most shredded cheeses have a coating to keep them
from sticking together in the bag and it affects the way it melts.
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Just made a pan pizza (Kenji’s recipe) but also made a 95% Biga 75% hydration dough for this weekend with Caputo Super Nuvola. It is ABSOLUTELY absurd they didn’t include Biga in the book but that’s not stopping me. I’m posting here because I did use their technique of making a pregelatanized flour, called a Tangzhong I believe (that’s also why it’s a 95% Biga dough). Came together well in the mixer. Looking forward to this weekend to see how this comes out.
Cooking with Myhrvold and Migoya's Modernist Pizza
in Cooking
Posted
Ok cool. That’s what I asked for. Surprised the cooking time is so off but thanks for the heads up.