IndyRob

Okay, after 4 weeks and 5 days in the UMAi bags I can report a result. The Bresaola is at 68% of its original weight. While this is less than the UMAi recommended 35-40% weight loss, I reasoned that it was more than the 30% loss that is generally recommended for charcuterie. So I declared myself bored, and it done. I was also getting a bit concerned about case hardening. The ends are really hard. The middle seems more compliant, but I was still worried about getting beef jerky. So I took it out of the bag and smelled it. Nothing but a faint whiff of herbs. I cut it with a santoku right through the middle which revealed a lovely red center inside a case of blackened beef jerky. Again, no off smells whatsoever. I sliced it as thin as I was capable with the santoku and tasted. A bit chewy (need a thinner slice probably - or the correct cut). Maybe a bit too much rosemary (which tasted of soap to me). Surprisingly unsalty compared to prosciutto. A pic is here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WP_20150715_015.jpg (click pic for hi-res). Then I vacuum packed both pieces with normal Foodsaver tech to go back into the fridge for two months as suggested by this blog: http://gatherwithme.com/review-umai-charcuterie-bags/. Hopefully this will retrieve some of the beef jerky area and even out the moisture a bit. But really, it's as much about keeping these pieces on ice until I find a more suitable slicing solution. So I really hope to get some responses to my Home Slicers thread. The lonzino (pork loin) seems to be progressing at a decidedly slower pace. The only thing I can point to is 25% less salt in original the recipe. Both cuts were very similar in weight, size and shape. But lonzino is not showing the same case hardening as the beef. In the end, I think it's going to be the better example.

Just the other day I had an idea for a vegan sandwich which could be pretty great. This led me to think that perhaps some sort of badass image remake might be in order for some wise business somewhere. So this topic kinda' hit home. But after looking at that menu, I'm not entirely sure that a vegan diet doesn't truly erode the creative part of your brain.

Brining single pieces of chicken can be done very quickly. As little as 20 minutes, but I'd allow an hour. If you've got enough water, you really don't need to account for the weight of the meat. The more brine solution you use, the less the weight of the meat will count in the equation. As I understand it, the sugar can bring two things: 1) Flavor (especially if you use something like brown sugar), and 2) As a counter-balance to all the salt in the brine. I generally don't use sugar unless I'm following a specific recipe. I just concentrate.on the percentage of salt in the brine. However, IMHO, I think the cut you've chosen to brine and sous vide is perhaps the worst one possible. While I'm usually quick to defend modernist techniques against the traditionalists, a chicken thigh is the perfect braising package. Braising brings some things you will lose with this process. Sous vide will help you avoid overcooking the meat. Brining will widen the window in which this occurs. However, a chicken thigh has a lot of connective tissue and we need to cook the crap out of this to break it down (within reason, of course). I think it will need a lot more than 1 hour at 65C to do this. At the same time, dark meat is less susceptible to being overcooked in the first place. You want to sear at the end. For the sauce, this will be inferior to searing at the beginning when you can use a dusting to flour on the thighs and start a sort of integrated roux, while integrating a lot of the tasty brown bits. Flour the thighs, sear in a bit of oil (not too much) and add liquid. You can incorporate all manner of things into your braising liquid to add flavor not only to the resulting sauce, but into the meat itself. Simmer covered on low until the meat is nice and tender, remove it, and then unleash the heat to reduce the liquid. Finish with some cream. Save some of the sauce for the next day, when you do chicken breasts exactly as you have described. Maybe without the sear (if you can't keep the skin on - otherwise, what's to sear?). Just sliced and sauced. The breasts totally benefit from brining and sous vide.

Okay, two weeks in and a milestone has been crossed. The bresaola and lonzino are out of the initial cure and into the UMAi drying bags. After they came out of the bags there were no odors to speak of. Just a hint of herbs. Very subtle once they were rinsed off. I did decide to trim off some fat from the lonzino at this point. That invalidated my weight comparisons, but they're both at around 1.35 KG now. After aggressively strangling the neck of the bag as recommended, and inserting the VacMouse, I started the vacuum sealing process. My FoodSaver gasket is getting a bit tired now so I had to go from the recommended 'moist' setting to 'dry' to get a satisfactory vacuum (along with some manual manipulation of the bag). I think I've got enough vacuum, but I must admit the vacuum level is less than brilliant - there is a nook and/or cranny in both bags that have a tiny bit of air in them. But hopefully. if this all works out, that could serve as some solace to a future reader with a similar problem. I'd like to address the VacMouse further now that I've used it. It's very much like a dryer sheet that has been folded in thirds like a letter. And then heat sealed at one end. It allows air to escape the bag but pretty much disappears (along the seal) during the sealing phase. An experienced user might cut it in half lengthwise and get double the use. Okay, well, it's just about waiting now. I'll be periodically weighing the cuts waiting for the magic 35%-40% reduction. Anecdotally, that's a process that will begin quickly and will slow significantly over time.

Deli Slicers marketed to home users for a reasonable price have historically been, well, pretty terrible. I learned that the hard way. But more current options are looking a bit more plausible. Has anyone had any experiences with this new crop of appliances? (e.g. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002SMC1ZU/ref=s9_simh_gw_p79_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=045729VAQ9J2MNXVWG1A&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2079475242&pf_rd_i=desktop)

Boy, is my face red right now. Too late to change it. Bought. Bought, bought, bought.

I would like to see a debate on this as there appears to be the beginnings of one online - but in disparate places (like blog comments). I think the short version is that yes, you are drying the meat, but you're also blocking the enzymatic action which results in the flavor enhancement.

Having grown up in Detroit, I am obliged to chastise you all for not embracing the Detroit Coney Dog in all of its beef heart and cumin chili glory. Just that, some chopped onion, and yellow mustard, and you are in hot dog heaven. Ketchup would be a capitol offense. However, since I've moved away, I've discovered that there are things that aren't Coney dogs or Sicilian pizza. Perhaps most significantly, hot dogs that actually taste good in their own right. It's really a crime to cover some of these up with a rather dubious supporting cast. Just some good spicy mustard please. But it's such an individual thing. And something that lends itself to whims of the moment. A bacon wrapped dog could be equally at home with some coleslaw or Big Mac type sauce. A nice variation I got from a hot dog cart was a Nacho Dog with jalapenos and cheese sauce (made better by roasting the jalapenos and adding to the sauce). The hot dog is the perfect food for riffing. You can boil it, fry it, grill it, deep fry it, steam it, bake it, or microwave it. One of the things I like to do is seal a utility dog in some pizza dough and deep fry it. Then cut it open and go to town with the extras. I think if I ever had a hot dog party there would be a big buffet table of options.

I will try to keep this thread updated, but it will involve a lot of waiting. But I am happy to say that the process is underway. I was able to find a beef bottom round roast and a pork loin for right around $2/pound. I love the idea of turning cheap cuts into expensive cuts. So far I have made mixtures of salt, Cure #2, sugar, various herbs and spices, and rubbed the cuts and stored them in reclosable bags in the refrigerator. Both are a bit over 1400 grams. As a starting point, I am using the exact UMAi recipes to make bresaola (should be eye of round and not bottom round, but whatever) and ;lonzino. There are YouTube videos that cover what I've done so far. Here's one. On my mind right now are two things.... 1) How am I going to slice this stuff? Many years ago I but a cheap meat slicer which left me terribly disappointed and now collects dust on top of a cabinet. It's possible that I may be able to add some structural reinforcement to make it useful. I've also been searching craigslist for real slicers. But the whole exercise if buying an expensive slicer works against the idea of economical meat. I'm also looking at those sexy long slicing knives like they use on Iberico ham in Spain. But that seems slow. Loving perhaps, but slow. 2) I'd like to get a prosciutto like texture. But I suspect that I'm going to get a texture more like dry salami in the end. The recommendation is to go for 35%-40% reduction in weight.. I don't feel inclined to modify the procedure on my first attempt. I think I'll just aim for the lower end of weight reduction and see what the results are like. So anyway, I have about two weeks to go before the next major steps. Then it will be 6-8 weeks for the final product.

This is a product that has been mentioned in various threads here, but I don't think it's ever had one of it's own. This is a shame, because it seems intriguing. It promises the ability to do charcuterie and/or dry aging of steaks without a specialized room or curing chamber - just bags - all in your refrigerator. However like many products, their marketing lacks detail and it's difficult to discern exactly what is being claimed. But basically, the main product consists of specialized bags that will allow moisture out, but nothing else in (like oxygen). And another thing called a VacMouse - which is important in some way that is never totally explained. But the basic idea is that you're going to cure your meat in a standard way for 1-2 weeks and then vacuum pack it in the Dry Bag with the help of the VacMouse using a typical FoodSaver device. Then you just put it in the refrigerator on a rack and wait for weeks or months. Then you have bresaola, capicola, prosciutinni, lonzino, etc. After watching some online videos and doing some web searches, it appears that this may be a very useful thing - with some caveats.... First, dry aging of steaks seems to be a major marketing focus. But it looks like they're taking some criticism from dry aging enthusiasts who point out that without the exposure to oxygen, dry aging isn't really taking place. They are aging, and they're drying, but not with all the benefits of the traditional process. Yet, they do have some support in the form of positive reviews on various sites. For the same reasons, no one is going to challenge Parma for the best cured ham bites using this product. That's just a given. But it could offer something in between. And I'm not ready to build my curing chamber just yet. So I ordered a kit and it arrived today. It will probably be months before I know anything further, but I thought I'd relate what I've found so far. And I hope people who have used it will chime in. I'll have some waiting to do. The particular charcuterie kit I ordered from Amazon (I was using Amazon bucks) was 24.99 plus $8.99(!) shipping. For this I received 5 dry bags, 6 VacMouses, a packet of Instacure #2, and a packet of juniper berries - all packaged frugally, but practically, stored in an elongated ziplock bag between a cardboard brochure. It hardly seemed to justify an $8.99 shipping charge (although perhaps that was Amazon). Anyway, the good news is that after I examined everything, it all went back into it's original packaging without any fuss and awaits its call to duty. So, besides the cure and the spice, we have plastic bags and VacMouses. The plastic bags are apparently special because they will let the moisture out with out letting any of bad stuff from your refrigerator in. The VacMouses appear to be some sort of plastic fabric that make up for the fact that the bags do not have the channeling that FoodSaver bags do. Apparently, they will (along with the recommended crinkling of the neck of the bag) will take the place of those channels until they are sealed shut by the heat of the element. (and again by the recommended second sealing). It all seems plausible, and I feel supported by many wonderful pics on unaffiliated forums of beautifully sliced meats. But then again, I paid nearly $7.00/bag (including spice, and cure, and shipping). If you buy meat at $2/lb and put in a $5 bag, some calculations have to occur. But, of course, we're competing with the cost of high price specialty items or investments in curing chambers. Well, I guess we'll see.... (sorry for the long post, but I wanted to include all the information I wish I'd found upon learning of this product - as opposed to having to all the searching myself. And, also, I could be wrong in anything I have said. I haven't actually used the product.)

I made ribs the other day and just noticed I still have probably over a pound of meat that I trimmed off the whole sparerib. I know I can braise it and make something like pulled pork or taco/burrito meat. But does anybody have a more interesting idea?

Sorry to quote my own post, but after further reflection, what dessert deprived child would not be delighted with a hot fudge sundae? In Detroit, a company called Sander's was famous for their Hot Fudge. This is a good replica recipe. The brands mentioned are important (normally, I'd pish posh such a notion - but here I'm sticking to it because I know the real thing and have tried this one)..... http://www.therecipedetective.com/recipes/Sanders_Hot_Fudge.html

This is what I was thinking. I once did a tongue-in-cheek Entreme Americaine that almost fits the bill. Start with a springform pan with a thin layer of brownies (which would have to be replaced by anything suitable that can hold its shape- I'm thinking something granola-ey). Then a layer of chocolate ganache, then some whipped cream with cocoa and confectioner sugar with finely chopped chocolate bits. The top was originally to be a Gelee of Yoohoo (the tongue-in-cheek part), but I discovered that Yoohoo has no flavor so I dissolved some gelatin into some hot chocolate, poured as thin a layer as I could get and put the whole thing in the fridge. I got a really nice glossy top. I'd serve a thin slice of that with a quenelle or two of vanilla eggless ice cream. Maybe with some hot fudge sauce. I wouldn't deviate from Hershey's chocolate. It's not bad chocolate even though it's not the best. Kids won't appreciate a froo froo bitter chocolate. They have very delicate taste buds.

That review left me seriously PO'd. About 3/4 of the way through he admits that he hadn't sliced meat in it yet. Who reviews a product without putting it through it's full paces? Will YouTube accept anything?

I bought a department store slicer some years ago for around $250 and it was a disaster. I've used commercial deli slicers and compared to those, this thing is like a sentence to purgatory. There were two major problems; 1) The back plate (for want of the proper term) was plastic and flexed away from the blade when slicing - meaning that getting paper thin slices is impossible. Also, the sliding mechanism did not so much slide as drag. Truly awful. However, I have been seeing models lately that look like commercial construction with a more homey price. I found one company (that I am unable to re-find now) that had a wide range of price points from commercial type pricing down to many for less money. Here's one that seems plausible http://www.meatprocessingproducts.com/fma-20201.html. But I'd be hard pressed to buy one of these things in the future without actually giving it a try first.

As understand it, a curing chamber needs a pretty high level of humidity (around 80%?).in order to avoid case hardening/ The DIY chambers I've seen use humidifiers in the chamber. The low tech ones use a pan of wet salt. But as suggested by the Wikipedia quote, the vacuum itself will draw moisture out. I'm thinking that as long as we could get the desired 30% weight loss, we should be good.

True, but curing meat in a FoodSaver canister does not strike me as that crazy. It may not work, or, it may be a way to eliminate an expensive and bulky curing chamber while also speeding up the curing process.

\ Precisely. I don't know if it would work like that, but that's why I brought it up.

I think ya'll might've mistaken my fanciful hook/inspiration, for what followed. As I count it, I wrote two sentences on curing outside the planet, and eleven on curing within it. So far, I have predictions of jerky and violent boiling. I do believe that the truth is somewhere in between.

I read a discussion on another site discussing the potential prospect of human habitation in lava tunnels on the moon, I was wondering what possible enjoyable endeavor one might get up to in a lunar lava tunnel when I thought of curing ham in an oxygen free environment.. Then I thought, well, why not just cure ham in a vacuum? Well, why not? My first thought was that without air flow, the moisture content wouldn't change. Does evaporation happen in a vacuum? Well, yes, apparently. Quite well, in fact. The Wikipedia article on Vacuum Evaporation states: "When the process is applied to food and the water is evaporated and removed, the food can be stored for long periods of time without spoiling." That sounds a bit like curing, no? I imagine that there would be no bacterial/fermentation action that I gather gives Italian Prosciutto it's unique characteristics, but I wouldn't consider that a fatal flaw. My utility prosciutto - Del Duca - has a very simple flavor but a texture I really like. It was given a Best Buy recommendation by Cooks Illustrated. So I'm thinking, after the initial salting period, could it (any cured meat really, I'm thinking duck prosciutto might be a good guinea pig) simply be hung in a vacuum canister at room temp. Well, why not?

That's my bet. Your Cruffin didn't get Cronut-level press? Make up a cloak and dagger caper involving a rare gem. Yeah, like there are very few pastry chefs that would know how to do that. Or how to put croissant dough in a muffin tin.

I think that more than once I've read of water being a 'solvent'. This struck me as odd, but if true you might be shooting yourself in the foot by foregoing the water given the fact that the goal is to get the flavor out of the meat and into the liquid..

This is exactly it. The idea is to get a nice crust all around while not overdoing the inside. That is why many roasting instructions say to start with high heat, and end with low heat (or low, then high). But what I wanted to add is that this assumes you are starting with a tender cut (rib roast, tenderloin, and similar things). If a recipe is for a 'chuck roast' or 'pork shoulder roast', then they don't really fit the same definition of (dry) 'roast' referred to above. So that mirepoix is okay here (typically after a searing step). They are what are typically referred to a pot roasts. And with these you want to bring water moisture because there are a lot of connective tissues that need to be broken down over a long period of time. I think there's more to be said about fat juiciness versus water juiciness, but I think I'll just leave it with my opinion that fatty variety is better for flavor in a plain meat situation - if there's a choice - all other things considered. It get's complicated beyond this point because it's not just about ingredients, but ways in which water, steam and fat actually become cooking vessels with different properties.

Our stove has two regular burners, a 'power burner', and a simmer burner (just a smaller burner with a smaller radius, and lower volume of gas). I've never used such a device with any of them. I just checked the bottom of several various pans from my kitchen and they're all pretty pristine underneath (well, except that one that has experienced several boil-overs). If you're getting good results topside, I wouldn't worry about it. Presumably, you're simmering a volume of liquid which is dispersing the heat pretty well. But I might be persuaded to use one if these things for very specific low heat, high viscosity applications like hollandaise, melting chocolate, or maybe a cheese sauce. But that's not really what the simmer burner was designed for. A double boiler, or even the microwave, are better candidates for these.

So I can make 1-2 servings of hollandaise and all I need are an egg yolk, a pat of butter, some lemon juice, white pepper and a $1,000 machine? LOL indeed. I pride myself on the fact that I've made hollandaise in a tiny saucepan over direct heat, but this sounds like a better way - if it works - the butter to yolk ratio seems a bit low. But I'll be trying this soon.