Carrot Top

Strangely enough, just like some nations, there is a "north" West Virginia and a "south" West Virginia, ludja. You might guess which part is considered more "sophisticated". Never saw a pepperoni roll in the south-western part of the state in the four years I lived there nor in the four years since, traversing it, living next door in Va. It does remind me of a home-made calzone, though. A recipe for that might be a good start.

Add my vote for "Washoku", with a note that the recipes are as good and delicious and workable as the rest of the book. With a thank-you to Suzi Sushi for first recommending the book on the eG Japan forum, here is a link to a review I wrote on "Washoku" this past Spring. A further boon the book offers is that the food is for the most part *very* healthy, fresh, low-fat for those with an interest in those sorts of things.

M.X. Hassett. When the name first appeared on the eGullet forums, I thought to myself, "What a fantastic name." A name full of elegance, intelligence, strength. And that is what Matthew Hassett turned out to be. A young man who nonetheless was a big man, in the best and fullest sense. I went back today and re-read some of his first posts here, to be sure that I was not wrong in thinking of Matthew as having a huge generosity of spirit, an enormous warmth that extended itself with curiosity about so very many things, and an open-hearted joy about the many good things that life could offer. Matt shared his love of books with me, and in so doing made me feel as if I were part of a special world inhabited by those who love the world books carry. He read widely and intently, and read well. His knowledge of food and drink was incredible for one his age. I did know how old he was, and indeed, just as Katie said - Matt was an old soul. It seems so terribly wrong that he should leave here, now. I am glad to have finally seen a photo of him. . .he is handsome, and smart-looking, and he looks like he would be a very good friend. And I am honored to read the bio he shared with Melissa - thank you for sharing that. And I too have shed tears for this fine young man who with his posts on this forum touched so very many people. His time here was too short. But he himself was so big that I do believe he touched as many people as others who are much much older. Jorge Luis Borge said, "I have always imagined Paradise to be a kind of library." I wish that for you, Matthew, with a fine place to drink and dine right alongside it. May peace and joy and love be with you. You will be greatly missed. If these things are possible, I do believe that you, were a sort of angel.

I drank something similar to this on my first solo trip to Mexico. It was in Acapulco, early afternoon before an evening flight out. I was fifteen years old, travelling alone. I may have been a suffering bastard the next day (as I remember I definitely was ) but that afternoon it took more the shape of "The Wizard of Oz" for I could not find my plane ticket or passport to get onto the plane to go home. For a while there, I thought that the rest of my life would be spent in Acapulco. Some kind soul located my passport, and the agent at the airport confirmed my flight without a voucher. I guess they didn't want me to be sick, "there" but rather back on my own home soil. ...................................................... Rusty Nails. Now there's another horrid beverage. And it doesn't even come with a paper umbrella nor any hint of "native culture".

Well, okay then. Maggie. I'll try to keep my eras of time in some sort of boxed-in order. I find it difficult in real life, too. Next question: I have an idea but have been waiting for someone else to post a story first, so that I won't be the first one to have to jump into the pool. But as time goes by, nobody else has posted their stories, so maybe they are waiting for the same thing to happen. I am lazy, very lazy. Lazy Libra. But it came to mind that it might dissolve a bit of my laziness if I were able to post this "fantasy foodblog" as if it *were* more similar to posting an actual foodblog - i.e. in posts that followed each other along the trail of the "week" or whatever in time day by day food experience by food experience in the life of my fantasy character, rather than trying to write the entire thing out as a solid piece of work then posting it as a whole. Would that be amenable to you?

As you say, Rebecca, the "delightful parrying and thrusting" is what I most enjoyed about this thread *when* it was happening, but when the parrying and thrusting becomes painful (for anyone involved) it's time to take a closer look at what we're doing. And I am in agreement with you about "this book" as a choice of how to use the precious moments of time we do have vs. Gunter Grass or any book of that ilk. It's my "sense" that this book will not be a classic of this stature, finally. What basis do I make that decision on? Nothing logical. Pure intuition. But as intuition has served me MUCH MUCH better than any logic ever did in my own life, I rather determinedly and pig-headedly believe in it. Finally - to communicate well by typing letters on a blank screen then sending it out into the world for all to read is such a high-risk behavior. We "know" from the sciences that at least three-quarters of all true communication is understood through the physical hints we give each other while conversing (well, you know - like how my cat has just jumped on the keyboard to tell me it's time to let her out? ) so it is much easier to lose what we "mean to say" in complex discussions - when simply writing on a keyboard and sending it out into the world. Just as I know that you are struggling with a physical illness, and my heart goes out to you - it's as important for me to remember that sensitivities of other sorts can be struck too easily with words alone - and just as if there were anything I could do to metaphorically place a cooling hand on your head, probably it would be best if I were to do the same in "general", even while trying to reach for the laugh or the giggle. But I did order the book - more just to "get it off my list", at this point, and also I am quite sure that I'll learn a thing or two from discussing it. I already have. Oh, and P.S. Carrot Tops are NEVER esteemed. They love to be tickled, or admired for their green freshness ( ) or even used in the rare recipe that will have them, but esteem? Pah. They could care less.

I'm hoping this is a real question and not a joke laying in wait for a "straight person", Kouign Aman. I've tried to make up some answers if it *is* a joke, just to amuse myself, but will answer "the right way", anyway. When the west was settled by immigrants, they chose land to settle on that suited the livestock they had traditionally raised in the place that they had emigrated from. Some land is good for cattle, some better suited for lamb or sheep (or even goats, for that matter ). So it all depends on the geographic suitability of the land as to what they ate, probably - not whether they were reprobate outlaw cowboys or nice sweet trailhand cowboys.

It's interesting to me that though VT is really very good with many things, including the foodservices and including being a responsible partner to the community - that this university *is* primarily (besides engineering) an agricultural college, a land-grant college - and although there are annual beef and lamb sales (on the hoof) and a huge poultry department, none of this stuff is sourced as food for the students. Too troublesome, likely. But there *is* one professor in the sciences who has an annual "Bug-Eating" dinner. (Easier to slaughter a slug than a steer? )

I guess it's all relative. After mostly "growing up" in NYC and living in Paris among other places afterwards, this place is uh. . ."the sticks". Not that I don't LOVE it, you know. I hope that it's okay that we've gone slightly off-topic here, since the original topic was writing, but it did start angling towards college foodservices stuff since there are two college-based writers discussing things here. . . .................................................... It's my understanding that most places (business and industry, colleges too) that *were* self-op originally started outsourcing their foodservices and dining services in the early late 1980's to early 1990's, when the byword was OUTSOURCE for savings by employers particularly in the category of employee benefits. This happened at Goldman Sachs, also. The management of the (self-op) private dining rooms was outsourced to ARA (who had provided the cafeteria services as subcontractor previously) about half a year after I left. . .and the original staff that remained had the opportunity of joining ARA or leaving employment. With reduced benefits (medical completely different) and loss of the usual twenty three to twenty five percent annual bonus that was paid based on performance, many left. A brave new world.

It wasn't me that first mentioned politics, JohnL. My initial post spoke of my feelings about the lives of those who live in long-term poverty, and it was a response to an earlier post that had been made by someone. But it is my new resolution to stay away from saying anything at all that would upset anyone. Might last five minutes, that resolution.

Virginia Tech is self-op. I don't think they are a large university, in comparison with some others. . .(?)

Once upon a time, about. . .well. . .a long time ago , there was a guy named Rudy Flik. He was attending college and was unhappy with the food that was being served there (the usual yucky cafeteria stuff). Rudy decided to form his own company that would provide a better sort of food service for schools and universities. He had been a chef. So he put together a company and sold this idea of using his smaller, more intimate and finely wrought services to the university. Flik International grew from this seed, and became not only a well-respected name in B&I foodservices, but was sold finally for a pretty penny to Compass International. It *can* be done. But then sometimes the dog turns round and becomes the tiger. . .

Why, Rebecca. Need I get my own knickers into a pretty twist too? Would that persuade you to be in agreement with me? Mostly I would like to know which part of my "dialectical gymnastics" you *were* in agreement with, my dear. Then I might try to hit the balance bar again, just for the fun of it, while trying to avoid any flying hard-crusted morue sale thrown in my direction. But really, I won't talk anymore till I read.

But of course that still leaves all the posts that speak indirectly of poverty or whatever causes it as one of the many different potential root causes of obesity in our culture, doesn't it. And it leaves in any discussion above of the poor and how they do cope or do not cope, too - with obesity in their particular situation - and it leaves in whatever attitudes one has towards them.

I will go back and delete all the posts I wrote that touched on it, John L.

Edited to remove.

Edited to remove.

While rummaging around in a library once for facts on this and that, two pieces of information came before my eyes on the same day. One was the rates of obesity for the area I lived in. It was high, very high. Another was (this was in a federally-produced document - I am not sure what that says but anyway) the rate of "dissatisfaction with life" in the area I lived in (it was looking at factors such as depression levels, etc. including other things). This was also very high. It was exceptionally high, as a matter of fact. The numbers topped most of the state. The area was rural. The income levels were low, quite low. There was little opportunity for employment in the area. Most people had not gone to college, and at least half did not expect that their children would go to college either. It was a primarily white population. There were federal programs everywhere you might cast your eye in this place. And the grocery stores were few and far between, small and ill-lit, gloomy and poorly stocked. Sometimes it might be that too many apples can upset the applecart, and one straw can break a camel's back in terms of "when" it is that someone does become a long-term obesity subject. It seems that today we are seeing entire families and generations becoming long-term obese. Why do we need to sweep one corner of the room (after coming to a supposed agreement on what corner needs sweeping) when the entire place needs a make-over? Whatever can be done, should be done. And it should be done without finger-pointing for glass houses are everywhere.

Thanks for the link, rjwong. It is fascinating to read of another way of life, another time. The menus and recipes you wrote were great, too, russ. The closest thing to a western cowboy I've ever had the luck to meet was Alan Simpson. When he came to lunch, I decided to write a Wyoming cowboy menu. Here's what we offered that particular cowboy, as printed up on the heavy ivory stock gold-embossed menus laid ever-so-gently at each delicate fine china plate: We started with Snake River Trout, grilled crisp with bacon and scallions. Cowboys need lots of food, so naturally the next course was the traditional Wool with a Handle (gosh I admit it might have had some sort of fancy sauce on it but that was just to give it safe cover in this tough environment) cuddled nicely up to some white beans long-cooked, as you say to a creamy and satisfying consistency. I apologized for not being able to rustle him up a Son of a Bitch Stew for lunch, but times were hard on the dusty trails of Wall Street in terms of finding those particular ingredients. (At least for use in outright and non-metaphorical cookery.) He and the other cowboys all chowed down and right polished off that meal. Nope, nothing wrong with a bit of lore and a good chow down, while keeping in mind's eye the wide open plains. P.S. Loved those last two stories, too, Rogov and sazji!

Judging a book by its cover would be like accepting it at face value, wouldn't it now. No, you are right, Jamie. I prefer to judge a book initially by its codspiece er. . no it might be frontspiece that I mean. It was Jack Katz's codpiece that sat on this book. Here's a bit more about Jack Katz: How Emotions Work. I liked what I saw about him. So my feelings for Jack transferred right onto this book. We'll find out if it's a good fit soon.

I don't think that anything "linked" to this issue is moot at all, really. In front of me are five books, all on obesity, one focusing on it as a health issue, one seeing it as a social and/or cultural issue, another as a mental health issue, another in defense of "fatness", and one specifically speaking of genetics, DNA, and neurology. These books are all from a university library and are used as reference material on the subject. Talk about a confusing issue. And an issue with so many things that potentially contribute to the "cause" of it. I'm happy to have the link to review. I thought your research and findings valid and important. P.S. The reason you didn't see my request for the info before you posted was that I saw your name reading, and did *not* want you to leave the thread without adding what seemed to me to be pertinent information, if this subject is to be looked at in a broad and inclusive fashion. So, serendipity strikes again!

Although I do have an admission to make, though. Generally (as I noted earlier) books that sound as if they were going about the business of defining culture (through foods or whatever) deeply bore me for the most part. The language used is often much too dense for my mind to wish to approach. It was only the insistence that this subject *was* one way and only one way, and the insistence that this thread had "gone on long enough" that reinvigorated my interest in the whole thing at all. Tell me I can not do something? I'm gonna turn right around and head right back to do it, if the reasons behind someone saying "you can't do that" don't make sense to me. I ordered the book once on Amazon. Then cancelled it because I dislike bickering. But as soon as I finish this post, I'm headed back to order it again. The world works in mysterious ways, doesn't it.

I would hope that kpurvis would post a link or some information on the journalistic work she did in inner-city grocery stores. Lots of good information there.

Ptipois - If you believe that I am claiming a right to "subjective re-creation of a social reality" then I have no idea at this point how to respond as that is where the conversation ends as there is no way to counter this, or none that I can think of. If you believe that I was saying that I was the only one here with a heart and a mind, then all I can say is that your understanding of what I was saying is incorrect. This book is worthy of comment because it was published. And it sold. It is again worthy of comment and discussion because it has been re-issued and will again be read. And it will be read in particular by a fairly well-educated group of people, because not everyone goes to the corner bookstore to pick up the latest University of Chicago bit of print. This group of well-educated people is a group that shapes ideas of other people, as these people *are* the ones who teach university level courses and determine reading material for students that will shape the ideas these students "learn" and this group of people also include others interested in culture as a whole who have the means to influence what is read in the media of culture(s). Mr. Maw is an example of this. He, and other editors who have interest in this field will read this book, and they do have the power or authority to send further information on the book and the ideas it proposes, out into the more generalized world of readers that pick up a magazine or a newspaper. I do not think, myself, that this book reflects "only" on France. And that is where our differences of opinion on this may reside. You are defending France. But I am not seeing it as France only or country markets only. I am seeing it as the world, and as the negotiation process. If you do feel that it is France and your culture that we are discussing here - no more no less - then I can see why you would say it is time to "end this misery". But truly, it is NOT France, only France - that is being discussed (again, my opinion). France was the example used in this book. And France, in discussing this book, can be used to reply to the book in whatever way one wishes, I assume. If I wanted to fight the assumptions about France that this book espouses, I would detail, succinctly and without emotion or any personal thoughts included - what rules and regulations *are* in place in France that other places do *not* have. Then I would find the numbers somewhere credible that told of how often these rules and regulations are broken as opposed to other places. That would seem to be a start, to me. I would try to avoid sounding at all subjective or with any personal stake in the subject. But again, I do not think France (alone) needs defense (and I am not so sure that anything needs "defense"), and I think the subject here is larger, and I am quite aware that people have hearts and minds. That is why I like humor (of a sort that is good-natured and that is understood as such by the majority of readers - although there will always be someone who does not "get" whatever humor is displayed in whatever subject and that is a risk that is never avoided in taking the jump towards hopefully eliciting a smile or a laugh with humor) in writings and in ways of thinking, too. P.S. One of the things that has happened during this thread is that I finally clicked onto your blog, which I had not before. I enjoy it very much.

I'm glad you posted the information on the Philly program, Sandy, though - very glad. The Alice Waters program is great to read of, as all these things are. But there is something about the program you posted that seems more "do-able", more real, more possible - to me - when I think of the school systems I've seen. I "bookmarked" the link immediately upon reading of it. It is working, that program, and it is working in an "everyday" sort of world. And the people that made that program work are "everyday" heroes. They have made a big difference in some children's lives. Again, nothing against Alice Waters. She is an astonishing force of a person and she uses that energy in good ways that go way beyond herself. I don't blame you for your "addytood". This is something indeed to be rightfully proud of. Honey, I'd be struttin' with righteous pride, too.