Carrot Top

It has been my motto over the years to never believe 'studies'. Because for every study that says one thing...just wait three years and they will have another come up that shouts out the opposite at you. Butter always seemed better, to my eyes and nose. Fresh...sweet...delicious. Margarine always seemed rather frightening. Packed up in plastic day-glo packages with gamboling cows smiling gleeful grimaces. Oily. Tasteless or else tasting of vaseline. Eggs? Who would ever choose an egg white over a perfectly golden yellow yolk, waiting to overflow happily onto your tongue? And who would ever believe those things in cardboard pour boxes are anything like eggs? Butter. Eggs. Yes.

I suspect that if we start arguing the true origin of words we could fill a zillion volumes. Words do morph and change meanings over time and with cultural changes. Since the beginning of time, people have felt the urge to travel and explore other lands...and their languages and foods came along with them, to become parts of other languages and mixed up with other foods to create new things. The wonder of creation and exchange. It is good to know where a thing started...and what it was when born. It is also good to see it grow and change. Both can be appreciated, and hopefully both can be accepted and smiled upon by those that watch with interest and curiosity about both new and old. Canned okra in France, huh? Well, then. Let us snap our trouser suspenders proudly here in the USA....

Okay with me...! Can't wait to see what people think and feel....

Thanks, Rogov. You have earned my undying devotion.

I had to sit with this idea overnight...just to be sure you weren't trying to trick me into something, Busboy... but...I'm almost 'there' in agreeing with you on this. Please don't take my lack of further commentary on this as lack of interest, for I would like to see how this plays out in terms of discussion and thought on this thread...but my major interest was the 'woman' part, not the 'great' chef part. Ideas, anyone? What defines a 'great chef'?

:laugh: Oh, fifi....like I said...the best use for okra is for endless conversation...and now not only about the thing itself but also about even the WORD!!!!

Beautiful line. (I came back to edit and add a 'smilie' so that my intent would be clear, but there just is not a smilie that would work on this one....) Can someone invent a word for a person that sits reading a thread with their mouth sort of intellectually hanging open in shock and taken-abackness and disbelief and almost-laughing but not? For that is me, here, reading of freegans.

Yes, I can see that. But the door has officially been opened a crack...on these things for those that care and those that would like to see a change. A door with a small crack, no matter how small...is always easier to push open than one that is firmly closed and locked...

What? Regional bias about whose food is better, where, in Italy?! I am shocked, shocked. Will email you, divina...and thanks.

It would seem to me that the decision of whether to have junk food available or not...in this particular case....in the schools, IS something that the parents had a hand in at some point. Changes such as this, even though small, do not happen easily nor quickly in a bureaucratic system such as a school. It was not the faceless 'government' that suddenly decided to do this...I am assuming...but rather, it was the parents and the school board (again, I must assume you have those things in Canada, as we do here) that initiated the change and followed it through to this small finality. One person, making a motion at a school board meeting. That, is where it started. One parent.

I bet okra is expensive in France, bleudauvergne. Is it commonly available in the markets...and how is the price? Well...then of course after writing this I realized I was thinking of okra as an American vegetable, and its home is really Africa. Curious. Probably your imports to France would come from Africa. The profit margin...and the distribution companies...that would be interesting to know about....in terms of whether they are smaller self-owned in Africa vs. our megalith US companies.... Ah well. Who cares. On to my usual cup of toasted okra tea for breakfast....

I hope there's enough time. My costume will be made out of peeled okra skins dried then stuck together with okra juices to keep it integral and honest. There are also the engineering difficulties to work out. As I dance, okra seeds should be gently emitted into the air from the costume, then floating over the audience, to cover them in a soft blanket of star-like sticky little white seeds. The effect of this will leave them pleasantly glued to the floor as they view the rest of the exhibition. Thank you for this opportunity. And now it is time to reveal my secret. For surely you will be understanding. I actually like the glutinous quality of okra. That is the best part of the whole thing, in my opinion. Hah!

I'll tell you where I WON'T land. Which is doing ANYTHING at all with computers, having tried to copy and paste and quote and write things for the past umpteenth amount of time in response and then erasing or losing it all. In the workplace, I was startled upon entering it to discover that one of the usual ways that people got promoted was by others getting fired. Even if you are just there are doing a good job, you might inadvertantly do harm to another. Would this then be considered 'your fault'...or would it be 'their own fault' or would it be 'the way things are's fault'....? Or nobody's fault... I am not sure 'where I'll land'. Or really, I must say that I AM landed. I have been raising my children alone 'unmarried' for three years now. But I must say that I was raising my children alone when I was married, too. Bottom line, though, having had a 'good career history' will not only move me in directions I would like to go but also profits my children in ways both economic and 'psychological'.

I was refering to this statement in my previous post. ← Thank you. I did not focus in on this within the body of the original post.

Performance art. Can I be part of it as a dancing okra pod? Please?

Forgive me for 'bumping this up' from the middle of the thread...for still I would love to hear some thoughts on this....

You are right, Michael. The world is full of people in different sorts of circumstances with different support systems (or not) and different ways of succeeding. The drum that it seems I must keep drumming....for that is what is hitting me, personally, as important...is twofold. First, that it is not 'bad' to either aim for success or greatness, as a woman, instead of putting one's family first. It may be different. It may be even very novel, in that in previous times women had no choice but to put their family first for if they didn't, they would not only be socially castigated but also economically disabled, since there were less opportunities for decent work at decent pay. There is an assumption here (that I read in running through this thread...very rarely, but I continue to read it) first of all, that women WILL have a family to care for. That is an incorrect assumption. Many women do not marry in today's world. They work. More and more women are not having children....married or not. Therefore it is to be assumed that the 'family' they would need take their major time to care for would be a grown man. And there may be women that live a life of the mind rather than a life of one who chooses to nurture others. Why shouldn't they? I keep reading this sense of 'naughty, naughty...this isn't what women are SUPPOSED to do'...and I am sorry, but it makes me sick to my stomach. Again, not only for me...but for the young women who ARE entering the workplace now...who ARE expected to have careers or work that defines them outside the home. College-age women today do not enter into the world of work thinking "I am going to get married and my husband will take care of me". And college-age men do not expect to have to support a woman who might, through some 'fluke', want to stay at home and be a homemaker. Therefore, if these women are entering into the workplace, they should not be entering into the workplace with a 'This is not REALLY the best thing I could do...to have a family is better' attitude. There are no guarantees of 'family'. Why should these women have placed upon them a thought process that is semi-self-limiting? They are not 'naughty' nor wrong in seeking success. Second...again...the idea that women are supposed to 'play nice' like we do with dolls. Please. Do I need to go into this at all? So here we are, in the workplace for that is where we are now. The workplace is competitive. Yet we are supposed to be 'nice' and sort of floating smiling graciously above it all? Give me a break. Again, to me it seems a dead-ringer for growing a losing team. And we are responsible for ourselves. Nobody else is. ......................................... Finally, back to the artist thing. Again...my own strong reaction to a tone that I was picking up in certain posts. I won't argue certain artists and what they did or certain chefs and what they did. But if the work of someone does not get out the door and seen, nobody will be able to appreciate it. Sure, absolute schlock can be promoted (and guess what...sold, too... and that is the public's choice) but if there is good work, or even great work, that is being done...it must get out into the world somehow for others to be able to sample its offerings. Therefore, again, I say that although this side of 'art' in any metier may be the work of a merchant rather than an artist, somehow it is part of the quotient. Since it is part of the quotient...it would seem to me to be important to have it somewhere there on the 'to-do' list in some form. And again, women have not taken up this act of saying 'What I've got is really good, take a look' as much as men have...for whatever reason, and this places them at a disadvantage in the jungle that is called life. ........................................................ In my own life, if I had been the sort of person that had waited for someone to help me...or had decided to smile gently and always be 'nice'....or if I had decided that it was not 'seemly' or that it was distasteful to stand up and say 'I can do this and I can do it well'....well. Surely I would be poor, financially. Likely I would never have had any chance at many sorts of success, including a professional one...and really...well. Plain facts, I might have been dead. This is a wonderful world with lots of great things in it, but it is also a dangerous and hateful one. If women are going to 'succeed', they need not be dragged down by thoughts of playing 'nice'. Guys....generally aren't. The thought pattern does not enter their mind. It is 'Let's play and see who wins!' Yeah...more than my two cents. Because it matters.

Thanks, albiston...can't wait to hear. My usual tactic (when visiting somewhere I've never been) is to spend about half the time doing what I should be doing...seeing the 'important' sights...and the rest of the time tucking a good map into my bag and wandering way out of range. This has proved both 'good' and 'not so good' in the past, but always interesting. Florence was very good for me in this way...fantastic home-style trattorias found way out in the middle of nowhere...and of course Paris but less so with the food but moreso in understanding the true-ness of the place...which is not all Champs-Elysees nor Montremarte which was where I lived. Mexico too...I remember getting caught in the middle of a cobblestone street full of rampaging pigs being driven home by some young children...hilarious and fascinating for all of us. Well...maybe not for the pigs.... Sometimes even getting lost is okay....just adds to the adventure.... So tell all...Oh! I have a question. You live in Germany I think? How do you think the Italian Christmas for a visitor (or even for inhabitants) compares to a German or Austrian Christmas? Are there Christmas markets and such lining the streets with lengths of ribbons and tree decorations and all tucked into boxes gleaming for sale?

Usually make a stock from the ham hocks (or sometimes a whole small shank end, they are very inexpensive and meaty) in cold water with aromatics and herbs raised slowly to simmering for several hours, allow to chill overnight, remove fat then continue with recipe using the stock as base for the soup.

My own opinion is that there is such an animal called a 'great chef'. And to make one, it takes a peculiar and individual blend of enormous talent, and also a different and special way of looking at things. Then it takes the capability and time put in to be able to transform that talent and artistic urge into a reality that others can enjoy. Although cuisine or cookery is a much more plastic art than other forms of artistic expression, in that it is so much more subject to temporal realities, it can still be identified and assessed and qualified in the same critical ways that other arts can be, and have been previously. In each category of art that I can think of...I'll use visual arts and literature as examples...there are those working within the metiers who are considered either craftspersons or artists. And then there are the 'great artists' or the 'great writers'. There is a magical spark within these people that reaches out and touches others in a special unidentifiable (though it can be categorized and endlessly critically discussed...please pick up a copy of Artforum for proof) way. It could be that there are many 'great' undiscovered artists, writers, and chefs. But the ones we know of, that we consider great, that I can think of, have worked to the edge of their powers in the pursuit of their vision. They don't just talk about it. They don't just set aside a certain number of hours a day to do it. They live it. Even the great artists and writers of the past and present can be looked at to see if they just sat around and got discovered. Usually you will see that they did not. They tried to gain validity for their expressions, both financial validity and critical validity. All the great artists and writers of the world did not sit in a corner and say, 'I am great, but so what...it is only important to me...I don't care what the world thinks.' The reason we even have names and faces for these people is that they got out there and did it, and self-promoted and went at it. Why should it be any different in the culinary arts? Why should we assume that there are different perogatives in terms of the use of the word 'great' for us? That the reporting media seems to be relentlessly tacky and that it seems to confuse the issues often is also something that always existed, throughout history. It seems worse now, because this is the media age and it is a virtual daily ongoing onslaught of opinion and fact being printed, viewed, and read. Again...as always, it is the public hunger for entertainment that creates this media monster...and it is the public hunger for someone to idolize that creates...idols. But the great chefs are out there. They exist, and what they do does what any other art can do if you take the time to listen...it inspires.

....Who doth ambition shun, And loves to live i' the sun, Seeking the food he eats, And pleas'd with what he gets. ....I met a fool i' the forest, A motley fool. ....And then he drew a dial from his poke, And, looking on it with lack-luster eye, Says very wisely, "It is ten o'clock; Thus we may see," quoth he, "how the world wags." ....And so, from hour to hour we ripe and ripe, And then from hour to hour we rot and rot, And thereby hangs a tale. As You Like It

I did not see anywhere in this thread that the years estimated that we have to 'put in' is three to five years.... But it would be interesting to see where it was noted, if you could point it out... Would also like to know a little bit more about why you believe that in three to five years one has not paid any dues...and also perhaps a little bit more about your background as a Pastry Chef. Is this your original career choice? What brought you to the kitchen in the first place? What were any other career(s) you have had...and do you feel that you were successful in them, and if so, why did you choose to make a career change? How many years have you worked in the kitchen in a professional position? Do you lead other people? What has your training been composed of in preparation for this position? Do you feel that you are competent and fully capable in the tasks at which your particular position demands? How about promotion and growing up and out? Is that something you personally like the idea of, or is that something that does not personally appeal to you?

Absolutely. Couldn't agree with you more. The only exception I would say that strikes me is where you write 'If women are not given head chef positions'. Of course you may not have written it to be taken in the way as I am reading it...but I must say that people who have power do not 'give' anybody anything. The people have to earn it, ask for it, sometimes fight for it. The reasons are complex as to why an equal number of women as men are not at top levels in many fields, including the issue of how 'promotability' is defined by the ones in charge of it. Are women underdogs in a sense in this situation? Less so than in previous times, certainly, but still they seem to be. Underdogs are not given stuff...they have to be canny and determined and persistent and smart to get equal footing. Overall, it looks like the underdog is moving forward, to me.

There's an old joke that ends with the line 'It's not the principle, it's the ten cents'...I wish I could remember it.... Hmmm. I wonder. Don't you think that sour grapes taste worse to those that are tasting them than to those they are trying to spit them upon? Let them chew what they want...

Yeah...well you never know. Could just be me that needs the fire in the belly just to get going, so I talk it up.... It was interesting to feel the sense of your comfort level in the kitchen and still, after all this time working there, your intense interest in and love for it. Another comment stuck in my mind...about the management styles (perhaps) of women wherein they may tend to lead and nurture a 'team' rather than direct a bunch of grunts...leading to women's kitchens being less 'iconic'. Hmmm. Lots of things to think about, from your post...thanks.