joesan

Al - personally I'd do it in a moment but I already have problems explaining to my girlfriend why I have to cook it in a bag for hours anyway - i.e. why can't I just cook it on the grill like everyone else! So you can picture the response if I do all the other stuff. Maybe I could sear, chill and freeze then proceed as normal when required. If I don't post anything ever again you can assume I've tried this and gone done with food poisoning.

Nathanm, Jason - can always rely on you two for the Sous Vide goods. I guess it makes eminent sense that placing the steaks directly in the SV bath from frozen is quicker and safer. I just keep getting confused e.g. with the advice that defrosting via microwave, or at room temperature or in warm water can be risky because of the increased time in the danger zone but if you are bringing it through that zone more quickly I guess intuitively then that is safer. Also when given the opportunity to do it the official way or the unofficial way I always plump for the latter! I like the idea of sear first, SV then sear again but am wary of doing it this way because I buy the steak in bulk and freeze it in the SV bag. I'd have too many factors to risk if I seared, cooled, froze, Sv and then seared to finish. Though perhaps I should experiment.

Sorry there seems to be a degree of cross-posting here. I guess it's because this is the one Sous Vide here you are guaranteed to get some stellar quality answers! Unconundrum, Bryanz - thanks for your help. I think you're right - somewhere between the one hour and eight hours lies the answer. I am going to try 4 at the weekend. Can anyone weigh in on the safety of dropping the vacumm packed steaks straight from the freezer into the water bath? I would love to be able to do this as I often forget to remove the steaks for defrosting but am not sure if doing this would pose safety risks e.g. by allowing the steaks to be in the danger zone for too long.

Folks - a couple of questions on steak cooking a la sous vide that I'd like your opinion on. The meat cut I am experimenting with is called Sirloin (in the UK). It is tasty and not as tender as Fillet. There are nice striations of interior fat. 1. I pack the steaks into the bags and freeze them. Would it be safe to take the steaks direct from the freezer and drop straight into the water bath without defrosting beforehand? 2. I am currently cooking (thawed) steaks for 1.5 hours at 55C. They are 30mm thick. I then sear them over a red hot pan. They come out nice but not as tender as one might hope for sous vide. How long would you cook them for?

Jason - they look truly delicious! What temperature do you cook them at?

And the French would know what about pizza?!?!?! It's an Italian thing! Well Italian first, Italian-American second... But I agree with the advice though - to cook an authentic Neapolitan style pizza you need the oven as hot as possible. I seem to recall that commercial ovens can go to 700-800F both the gas fired and wood-burning varieties. At these temperatures a pizza can cook in 1 or 2 minutes. So you want to get the oven and stone as hot as possible. Other than that I agree with Phaelon56s tips. Italian style pizza bases are made with only four ingredients - Water, Flour, Yeast and Salt. You really don't need anything else. So if you want an authentic Italian style pizza use only those ingredients for your dough. Things like the Chicago style deep dish can be very tasty but they bear little resemblance to the purity of a proper Italian style pizza. In general less is more when it comes to Pizza and Italian cuisine in general. To avoid your problems I would say cut back on the sauce and toppings in general and put it into the highest heat oven you can obtain. Keep the dough on the wet side (this has the disadvantage of making it harder to work with but, hey, you can't have it all, can you). Preheat the oven stone for a considerable period of time because it is the thermal mass of the stone that causes the "oven spring" when the room temperature dough hits the blistering hot surface of the stone. I often have pizza parties for 12 or 14 people and my method works well every time. I cook my pizzas at 575F for 3.5 to 4 minutes. The come out cooked through, chewy and flavoursome.

Hi Dejah - Sorry, to be clear, I mean remove some of the fat, discard it and then dice the remaining pork. I am not suggesting that all the fat is removed just some of it. It's a matter of personal taste whether you want to keep the fat or not, some people find it too much and unhealthy. I'm recommending frying the pork in Lardo so you can guess my position!

Hi Daniel - I know the feeling. I was planning some Quail recipes in bed last night. It's an addiction... Here is a wonderful Portuguese recipe (adapted from a book called Big Flavours and Rough Edges - one of the best gastropub cookbooks - recommended) 1 kg Pork Belly, remove excessive fat, cut into 2cm dice Some Lardo (if you can obtain, try and get it because it really improves the flavour) Garlic cloves 1.5 teaspoon smoked paprika 0.5 bottle of white wine Bay leaves 2 Cloves Marinate together for 5 hours Melt the lardo (or add olive oil) and brown the drained meat pieces. When browned add the reserved marinade and cook for half an hour or so until tender. 1kg Razor Clams Olive Oil Onion Parsley 1 tbls Tomato Puree Salt and Pepper Fry onions and parsley until softened. Add tomato puree, simmer for 5 minutes or so. Add the cleaned clams. When alll are open add the meat, and salt and pepper. Serve with some homemade sourdough bread and a green salad on the side. Delicious!!

Fat Guy - here in the UK duck eggs are pretty popular both in restaurants and in many supermarkets. I agree that they have a luxurious taste and feel that far surpasses chicken eggs. If you boil them for 7 minutes you get a perfectly textured egg that is just delicious - no yucky watery stuff like you sometimes get with a chicken egg. They need a little longer to cook as they tend to be larger. Also great in a salad with some frisee and lardons - yum. You could try your local chinese market - I believe that they are commonly used in Chinese cuisine. PS Have you tried Gulls eggs - they are delicious. I've eaten them at Fergus Henderson's restaurant with some smoked salt. Sublime!

Ghostrider - I freeze the basil whole on the stalk and it is true that if you thaw it after having frozen it it will look soggy. But what I do is take it straight from the freezer and add to the hot pan. As soon as it hits the hot oil you get a great flavour release and it is a hundred times better than dried basil for pasta sauces and the like. Considering it takes practically no effort to do you should give it a try. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

Kithenmage - the oregano I get is very intense and beautifully flavoured. Unfortunately I haven't seen the plant itself I only get the dried results. I am going over there at Easter and will try to find some more information or a photo. I think that dried oregano is one of the few herbs that dry very well. Bay leaf is another. I'd grow all the herbs that I could but the problem here in the UK is that the growing season is most definitely not the whole year. I think that one of the worst herbs to preserve is Parsley. Dried parsley is like dust! I can't say I've ever found a really good source for commercially dried herbs - still looking. I think I will try some of the preserving in oil methods. Have never tried that so far.

I am lucky enough to get some regular shipments of dried wild oregano, supplied by my girlfriend's mother in Capri. I agree with Fat Guy - this stuff is a whole different ballgame from that which you can buy in the shops. A stored herb breakthrough this year for me was when I just tossed the extra basil I was growing in the garden into a bag in the freezer. We had basil to use all winter long. Too wilted to use in a salad or anything but great in cooking...

Blitz means to liquidise with a hand blender or other liquidiser.

Wallie - Most recipes tend to use Pork fat as it is fairly good neutral medium. You could use lamb fat but it tends to go rancid fairly easy and has a very strong flavour that would easily overwhelm the taste of the sausage. I'd recommend that you try use the pork fat if you can.

Hi Jan, I would say that a good way to do this is to buy a bottle of inexpensive wine and to freeze it into small blocks in your ice-cube tray. That way you can keep the wine in portion sizes almost indefinitely until you are ready to use them a portion at a time. You can also use vermouth but this can be a little too floral or sweet in some cases. I would however definitely use some kind of alcohol, so use the vermouth (which has the advantage of keeping almost indefinitely) if you have no wine. The wine or vermouth will add another layer of complexity to the flavour that really does add to the quality of the risotto. I wouldn't leave it out if you can avoid it.

I've just read all this thread in one go and found it both hilarious and at times annoying. I really enjoyed the series and the book. Heston comes across as genuine and willing to share. I like the guy. I agree with Matthew's comment on the Spaghetti Bolognese (by the end one does wonder if the dish can really be perfect, or indeed what it purports to be, with so many additions). Also with the Pizza some of the additions seem to be the antithesis of the general Italian ideal of using the best quality ingredients in the simplest way to the best effect. But on the other hand I did enjoy reading in the book about the quest for the right flours, best temperatures etc. If you look at the series as a fun culinary quest rather than definitive statements or perfect recipes I think you get the most out of it. Personally I use a lot of Heston's techniques in my cooking and I find them beneficial. I love the fact that he questions some of the old lore of the kitchen and either proves, disproves or improves. I find the opining on Heston's business plans irrelevant. Some of the comments here seem mean-spirited - I mean the guy taught himself, shares much of his hard earned research and has attained worldwide general acclaim. I've eaten at the Fat Duck. Loved it. Read the books. Learnt something. Watched the series. Been entertained. It's all about the food - not the metaphysics and economics... for me anyway.

Very nice Jack. Your bread looked great as usual. I think the Foie and jelly looked amazing. And your consomme looks delicious. Was the Garlic and Coffee jelly good? I find the pairing slightly jarring though I love anything that's "agared" up! Well done - shame your guests didn't stay a little later. If I was served that meal I'd still be there today.

Great thread - thanks Molte e. I'd also like to add - don't Alex and Aki seem like great people? I love the way they share their ideas and bounce things of other talented people. It's a great philosophy and one in which everyone in the culinary diaspora wins by having new, fresh dishes and processes - and in turn sparking further creativity. Its in marked contrast to the NDA and copyrights proposed by others.

Michael - thanks that is very helpful - and I like your storage "hack"! I was thinking about fish and meats in general when I asked the question. If you look at the graphs for the increased spoilage rate for fish for even a few degrees above the optimum temperature the acceleration in spoilage is incredible. I believe it is due to increased enzyme activity at the higher temperatures (obviously fish living in cold seas have trigger points for this activity at a much lower rate than beef for example). Any experience with vegetables?

Rocklobster - everyone has been very helpful but you are one of the first mentioning experience of it being useful refrigerated rather than frozen - and that is the information that I am really after. It seems a given that it is great for the freezer but can you give some examples of how long it can prolong foods in the fridge?

Ha Pielle- I think we are living parallel mad scientist worlds. We should join "labs" and have a joint Montreal/London Sous Vide equipment task force! For me the ultimate would be the computer controlled hob then you can have the system contol the ramping up temperature, the hold temperature and the timing of the process. BTW some PIDs can be programmed to do basically this. I bought a little Data Aquisition Device that interfaces to my Mac. With this I can read the temperature of the cooking medium and control the heating element via a SSR (solid state relay). You can then also use software timers to time the whole process. The problem for me was that I don't know enough about the heat latency of water / responsiveness of the heating element to produce an accurate control formula. So in the end I figured it would be a lot easier just to use a PID since these devices basically learn the hysteresis and the profile of the heating element to produce an accurate result. Sorry I can't really help on the workings of the induction coil (I only know enough to be dangerous!). I think that they basically work but by inducing a magnetic field that then exites the molecules of the pan causing them to bump together and thus produce heat. But I don't know one iota about how the electronic circuit to do this works. Google?

Pielle I really like it as a solution especially if you compare the costs to a laboratory circulator ($000's). You are right the problem is not the induction coil per se but the control electronics. I did think about bypassing the control electronics but think it might be a bit too complicated. Its a shame because I love the speed and efficiency of induction. I did some experimentation and bypassed the touch controls but the hob goes into error when you cycle it on and off. I think cooktek do a induction hob with a temp probe but it costs about $3k I think so a DIY solution would be very cool. I wasn't sure whether I'd need the circulation or not. The consensus seems to be that one probably doesn't need it if you don't have too much stuff in the pot. Our Sous Vide guru Nathanm gave some advice on it in the Sous Vide thread. One thing that I am considering is using a lab hot plate that has a magnetic stirrer incorporated. You can pick them up on eBay for about $40-60. My heart is still set on the induction though.

Well done Pielle - looks awesome. I was one of those posting on the use of the PID in the Sous Vide thread, I've had mine for a couple of months now but can't use it with my main hob since that is induction and switches on using a touch control panel. Since I can't replicate the "on" touch I can't get the Pid to turn on the hob. This is one of those instances where simpler is better. Your PID can control yours because the hob itself is switched on by a mechanical switch. Leave the switch in the on position and you are good to go with the PID. To get around this I am planning on buying a hot plate or boiling plate and PIDing that. Otherwise I am planning on going the same route as you have. One of the benefits in my opinion is that you can use any size pan that you already have, you don't run the risk of a second hand water bath (imagine what kind of chemicals may have been in there!) and you can mulitply the uses - deep fryer etc. I think it is the way to go. I also have a feeling that the PID may be more accurate than some of the cheaper water baths. Have you thought about adding an aquarium pump to keep the water circulating?

I'm learning loads here - thanks to everyone who replied. What is a vacuum chamber and how is it better?

Thanks - that's the kind of info I was looking for - a solid example of it extending preservation. Seems like there is no doubt its an improvement for freezing, very useful for Sous Vide and it looks like it's also useful in the fridge. On balance it looks like a pretty good investment. Any more examples of uses in the fridge?