robyn

Like I said - there's no "prime" prime rib where I live. So choice with decent marbling will serve as my first attempt (if it looks perfect - but isn't juicy - I can blame the cut of meat - not myself ). When you use your recipe - do the end cuts get reasonably done (not incinerated - but not rare)? Also - have you ever used seasoning other than garlic/salt? I've seen a lot of references to thyme and/or rosemary in various recipes. Robyn

I have the Alton Brown cookbook - and read about his refigerator "dry aging" process. I'm in Florida. Even though it's North Florida - it was 70 today - with high humidity. It's supposed to be 30 Thursday morning. I doubt my environment is sufficiently controlled to insure that I get "aged" beef - as opposed to "rotten" beef. Robyn

Sounds like me. I can't repeat some of my best dishes - because it was a "little bit of this - little bit of that" - plus let it age in the refrigerator for 1-2-3 days. No one here sells "prime" prime rib. I'd rather learn on a $30 cut of meat than a $130 cut of meat (I'd have to buy mail order). I just hope with marbling in the beef - and a meat thermometer - I can't go too far wrong. Robyn

I have the Alton Brown cookbook (I'm Just Here for the Food). He's in the "low heat first then high heat" camp. Have you ever tried doing this? Robyn

I think you are confusing NYC with the rest of the US (old New Yorker Steinberg problem). We have a few French restaurants - and they're as lousy as the Italian restaurants. The things that restaurants do best here are fried fish (all local and tasty) - BBQ (I never get into BBQ arguments - too dangerous in these parts) - and - on the high end - new American fusion. I think I detect a theme. We do local stuff best. Could the same be said of Italy? Robyn

OK - here is a theory no one has explored. The United States is a country of immigrants. Once you get outside of large major metropolitan areas - and you're an immigrant - what can you do if you don't speak English very well? In my area - if you're Mexican you become a gardener. If you're Russian you become a construction worker. Note that we basically have no Mexican or Russian restaurants. If you're Chinese - I can't say restaurants are the #1 choice - but they're high up there. Ditto with Italian. We have lots of Chinese and Italian restaurants - and they are almost all run by first generation immigrants. You will hear lots of Chinese and Italian. But you won't get good food. Why? Because most of these immigrants weren't in the food business before they came here! There was in fact a funny story in the New York Times a while back about a Chinese immigrant family that moved from NYC to rural NW Georgia - which was much more similar to their home than NYC (they could raise pigs in their back yard - the place was safe and friendly - etc.). What did they do when they moved to NW Georgia - they bought the only Chinese restaurant in town - even though the husband/owner was an accountant - not a chef. He couldn't attempt to be an accountant in the US because his English was poor - but he could try to be a chef. We have the same thing where we live. One of the newest largest - perhaps 200 seats - most successful Chinese places in town is owned by a Chinese immigrant family. It's a Chinese buffett (all you can eat for $5.95 for lunch - those of you in New York City don't snicker). It is obvious these people weren't in the food industry before they moved here - but they are trying (with varying degrees of success) - and the place was packed with other Chinese immigrants when we were there last weekend. We have our fingers crossed that the place will do very well - and they will be able to afford a good Chinese chef. It is the same with Italian restaurants here. There are a couple of local "groups" of restaurants owned by various families. They are successful. And the original founders are all Italian first generation immigrants who I am sure had no culinary training before they opened their restaurants. There aren't as many Italian immigrants here as Chinese - so these restaurants will never be totally packed with Italians. But if lots of Chinese immigrants will eat mediocre food at a Chinese restaurant owned by other immigrants - how can we demand more from a bunch of rednecks who don't know beans about any ethnic food at Italian restaurants? By the way - I'm sure this will also cause some snickering - but the Chinese buffett really says a lot about immigration in the US. It of course has traditional Chinese dishes that westerners are used to. It has some stuff that is a little unusual - like chicken feet. And it also has things like pizza and apple pie. It is not unusual to see people who don't speak English putting their pizza next to the chicken feet - and the apple pie next to the sesame balls. Holy melting pot! Robyn

I think it is pie in the sky to hope for western legal standards in most parts of the second and third world. There simply is no rule of law as we understand it - particularly when it comes to property rights (as western people sometimes learn when they buy "vacation" houses in these places). I have a simple rule of thumb for determining whether a country has a reasonable legal system. Can I buy a supplemental auto insurance policy if I'm planning a trip there - and want to rent a car. I can buy such a policy for just about everywhere in western Europe. But such a policy isn't available in much of the world (because the insurance companies don't think the countries have rational legal systems). Robyn

When it comes to Florida festivals - and Florida swamp cabbage - you're talking about the sabal palm (although I suspect other people in other countries have used similar techniques on other types of palms). And you do have to kill the trees to get to the hearts of palm. I could be wrong - but I don't think there's any commercial hearts of palm production in Florida. The stuff for the festivals - which isn't a huge amount - according to what little I've read - generally comes from the "harvest" of someone who needs some land to be cleared. These are small town festivals designed to recreate how various peoples in Florida used to live - they're not meant to celebrate a commercial crop. I really don't know a lot about lots of palms. But best I can tell from the sabal palms on my land - they grow wild here - they don't produce anything else that's edible for people (although a lot of bugs seem to enjoy them during the year). And they don't grow very quickly. I have only been here about 8 years - but a palm that was maybe 5 feet high when I moved here is maybe 10 feet high now - not anywhere near full height. Perhaps that's why there's no commercial crop grown in Florida. They just grow too slowly - and you don't get enough "bang from the buck" out of a tree. On the other hand - pine trees are a big commercial crop in my area (faster growing and more commercial "yield"). Robyn

Swamp cabbage is hearts of palm (actually comes from a palm tree - the sabal palm - which is the state tree of Florida). Robyn

What a lot of reading . By the way - blowtorches are out. Have never used one - and trying to master a new cooking technique that involves direct flames while I'm enjoying some holiday wine would probably make for a bad learning experience. But I do have double 30 inch ovens. One is a decent convection oven. They are also both self-cleaning - so I don't worry about making a mess. Robyn

In all the discussion here - I've quite forgotten the point of the thread. Is it: the best Italian restaurants in the US aren't are good as those in Italy (point conceded - it's to be expected that the best in the host country would be better)? The average Italian restaurant in the US isn't as good as the average Italian restaurant in Italy (point conceded again for the host country)? There aren't *any* good Italian restaurants in the US (point not conceded)? I've eaten at many good Italian restaurants in the US. In New York east side (I don't live in New York) - I like Felidia's a lot. I also have a Staten Island cousin (a Sopranos type) who takes us to places that are very good (although I swear every meal has been videotaped by the FBI). That Italians know everything about food - and Americans are total boobs (point not conceded)? I've seen too many mediocre pizza places in Italy. So what points are people trying to make here? Robyn

Sam, it is clear that you are an intelligent and thoughtful man. And I agree with almost everything you've said, except this. If you read back through this thread, it has a distinct tone that is constantly disparaging to Americans... Indeed it does (have a distinct American-disparaging tone). I will let you in on a little secret. I've traveled in Italy. Had some great food. But you know what - you go to someplace like Venice (my least favorite place in Italy) - and you will find a lot of people who speak Italian (doubt they're Americans) eating really mediocre pizza in a million pizza places - that - were it not for the setting - could be mistaken for a pizza place anywhere in the US. And pizza is about as foreign to Venice as it is to Miami (despite all the "tomato" talk here - most Italian cuisine in the north isn't based on tomatoes). Anyway - these people were eating just like Americans at home. We had to pay a lot of money at higher end places to find a local specialty like liver. By the way - someone made fun of my shower example a ways back. We actually went to a dentist in northern Italy (my husband cracked a tooth and needed a temporary filling because we weren't due home for 3 weeks). It was an interesting experience - because no one in the dentist's office spoke English (thank goodness for our Spanish - and our little bit of Italian). The dentist called everyone in his office to look at my husband's mouth - his root canals - his crowns - because they were almost unheard of in that part of the country - except for very wealthy people. Now dentistry isn't cheap in the US - but it's mostly poor people here who are missing teeth. It was a common thing in northern Italy - even for the middle class. For what it's worth - the filling my husband got cost about a million - billion? - lire - $6 - and the dentist did a nice job. Robyn

This, I think, is a statement that begins to get back on track towards the heart of the matter. The fact is that, in terms of what is available to the average consumer, ingredients in Italy tend to be better than the ingredients in America. The fact of the matter, which is readily apparent to anyone with familiarity with the two cultures, is that food is simply much more important to the average Italian than it is to the average American. I don't think that anyone who has spend significant time in Italy, particularly in a capacity other than as a tourist, could argue that this is not the case. Food, and specifically a pride in the qualoty of local ingredients, is one of the most important aspects of being Italian to an Italian. There are many things that are important to Americans about being American, but great food and local food traditions would have to be pretty low on the list... It's really hard to avoid things like economics and sociology when you discuss issues like this. I've spent a lot of time in Europe (just as a tourist) - and my dominant impression over the years was that many people in central Europe (France, Italy, etc.) were more "food-centric" than Americans (and other Europeans for that matter) because there were few big-ticket items within the means of the average person. We all know that for the average American - the single largest expenditure is housing. We are a "housing-centric" economy. For most non-aged people (who tend to spend a lot of money on health care) - the second largest item is automobiles. We are also a "car-centric" economy. When you went to Europe 20 years ago - who could afford a new house? Who in the cities could afford to keep a car? Even when you got outside of cities - given the price of gas - you had to be careful about cars - and simply bought the ones that offered reliable transporation and great gas mileage. So what did you spend money on? Food? Clothing? (Yes to both.) Also - Europe is much more protectionist in terms of agricultural laws than the US. Some of the laws (like those in Norway which were designed to make Norway food-independent after WWII) make some sense. Others make no sense at all - except in terms of protecting local producers from international competition - or in terms of being pawns when it comes to negotiating trade issues (I'm from Florida - and although the connection between steel tariffs and citrus imports doesn't make much logical sense - it's the way things work). A lot of European food is local not because Europeans demand it from a quality point of view - but because their governments make sure that's all they get. I suspect if everyone in Europe had access to a Harrod's food court - they'd do at least some shopping there. As for pride - whether it's the American's pride in his house - or the Italian's pride in his food - we all have to get off our butts and start worrying about other things at this point - like how we will be competitive with food producers in central and south America - manufacturers in China - and service providers in India (interesting statistic - the people in China and India make up 40% of the world's population today). I don't think people in the US are very far along the road in terms of dealing with this - but I think the people in western Europe are even worse. If we're not careful - we'll all wind up like Argentina (living very much beyond our means in cultures that don't exist anymore). By the way - we have lousy Italian restaurants where I live. But it's so easy to do at home. I make fresh pesto with basil from the garden during the summer (you need about 4 square feet to raise all the basil you need). Use very common Italian stuff that's available in every grocery store here (Barilla pasta - those Pomi tomatoes in boxes - aged PR). Even make my own pasta when time permits. Liver and onions (yum). Roasted birds with Italian seasonings. It's a fun cuisine for the home cook - because it's relatively easy. Robyn

I've bought broken bags of topsoil before - but never rice. Perhaps that's because 10 pounds is about enough to last me for a year. Like your salad. I make a similar one - no avocados - but with toasted pecans or walnuts - whichever happens to be handy. I'll add the avocados next time and see what happens. By the way - making anything with grapefruit used to be agony (I am terrible with knives) - but since they started selling those peeled red grapefruit sections in jars - it's an ingredient I use all of the time. Robyn

I usually make a brisket for Hanukkah (with kugel - I like kugel better than potato pancakes). It has become impossible to find the cut of brisket I like where I live (choice point cut with a fair amount of fat). Everything here is flat cut - with no fat. Looks like shoe leather even before it's cooked. I need a plain meat to go with the kugel (it's rich) - so I thought I'd make a prime rib. There are only 9 million recipes for how to cook a prime rib. Slow cook on low heat. High heat then low heat - low heat then high heat. Medium heat. Julia Child is my default - but I'd like to hear from experienced prime rib cookers before I decide (although I'm a decent and fairly experiened cook - I have never cooked a prime rib). Note that I already bought the meat. It's not fancy - a decent looking 4 rib roast from my local supermarket with a fair amount of marbling. It will just be my husband and myself at dinner. He likes his meat well done - and I like mine rare. I figured he'd get the ends - I'd get the middle - and the rest would be leftovers. So what's your favorite way to cook a prime rib to get great results? Robyn

Jello looks mighty good when you're prepping for a colonoscopy . But here's a recipe you might like to serve with turkey: Dissolve 1 pack Cherry Jello in 1 cup boiling water. When cool add 1/2 cup chopped walnuts, 1/2 pint sour cream, 1 can drained cubed pineapple, and 1 can whole cranberries. Mix. Chill in mold until firm. Unmold and serve. Like my husband says - anything with sour cream and nuts can't be that bad . I really like to do a lot of "retro" cooking for the holidays. But if an old favorite doesn't taste good - work with it until it does (e.g., I have a half dozen recipes for sweet potatoes - and you'll never find a marshmallow). Robyn

For what it's worth - if you don't take the wrapping off - candy canes will last in your cupboard for a looooooong time (years and years). So don't even try to eat them - just save them for the next decade's decorations. Robyn

It's a very retro dish. Goes with the mid-century modern furniture. Robyn

Saw palmetto isn't the same as swamp cabbage. Robyn

And I think you're wrong... My assumption is that most Americans live in urban areas, but I guess upon reflection, I think more are in suburbs. And by "really good produce" I mean Italian or near-Italian quality. Some California produce is quite good, but in general, not up to Italian. But I think that, having no way to measure what percentage of Americans have had really good produce or what "really good" is, we'll have to agree to disagree. Gosh - how many arguments like this can you guys have ? The simple fact of the matter is that different countries do certain things better than others. Is the food in Italy better than the food in the US? Yes. Is the plumbing in the US better than the plumbing in Italy (or most of the rest of the world for that matter). Yes. So what do you want? A great tomato - or a great shower. I have found unfortunately that you're unlikely to find a country where the average person has easy access to both. Of course - there are countries that don't do *anything* well - but Italy and the US aren't two of them. Robyn

How about the swamp cabbage festival in LaBelle Florida? Now how many of you know what swamp cabbage is without looking it up? Robyn

Good chanukah gelt? How about a box of chocolate from Maison du Chocolate - Vosges - whatever. Put it in a bag and write gelt on it. Because that's what it costs - a lot of gelt . Life is too short to eat bad chocolate. Robyn

Shorts are sometimes acceptable on women - but not men. One day I ran into Chinois on Main to see if they could take a party of 3 for lunch without reservations. I was wearing shorts. They said - "no problem". I waved to my husband and his friend in the car. They parked and came in - wearing shorts. And were told shorts weren't ok for men. But the staff was in a bind - since they had told me (and I was in shorts) - that there was no problem. Which is how my husband and his friend wound up eating a really good meal at Chinois on Main in kitchen pants (they would have walked out - but they knew I really wanted to eat there). The staff treated our strange little group with much good cheer - and some nice not on the menu courses - to compensate for the men's inconvenience. My only regret is I wasn't carrying a camera with me. Robyn

Part of it has to do with the work week of the staff. It is aparently easier to assemble a staff that works 5 - 5 1/2 days a week instead of 6. There are a lot of fine restaurants (mostly in Europe) that are only open Monday through Friday. Robyn

I spoke with my brother a few days ago to make plans to get together in Miami in a couple of months - and he told me the same thing. Too bad I missed going there earlier this year. Robyn