robyn

OK - so what else that's non-negotiable is really negotiable ? When I look at this plan - I see a kitchen table in the kitchen. Doesn't have to be huge. Just a place for the kids to sit down and shell peas while Mom and Dad are making dinner. The whole idea concept in contemporary kitchen design these days is drawing people *into* the kitchen - giving them a place a stand/sit and be a part of what's going on. Get those cabinets priced out first at a place like Home Depot/Lowe's. I really think it's worth it to do the job as a whole (but not - as someone suggested - at the expense of your kid's college fund). And - if you have budget restraints that prevent you from doing the whole job - I'd work from the bottom up (it is much easier to add upper cabinets 2 years down the road than to add a new floor). Also - and I know this will be touchy - consider allocating some of your appliance budget to the other items. I know that guys are into the biggest/baddest stoves - the biggest baddest knives - whatever. Guy things (particularly if the guys aren't metrosexuals ). But there is something wonderful about a place where you and your family spend a lot of time looking nice too. Robyn

Wanna play "our water level is higher than your water level" ? Robyn

That is when you become a walk-in at 8 . Robyn

As much as I like white Corian (I've used it for about 25 years in 3 different kitchens) - I don't think it would go with your cabinets. And tan is just kind of a really pukey color. Corian has textured looks/colors - but then you're back where you started (you can't see if the counter is really really clean). By the way - the gist of everything I'm reading here is that people who like to put hot pots on counters don't like Corian. That isn't something I've ever tried with any counter - so I will take their word for it that Corian is bad in that regard. As for the one message about cigar and cigarette burns - I smoke - and I suspect most people who smoke have heard of ashtrays. I can't imagine the kind of person who would come over for a meal and put his butt out on your kitchen counter. Other than the burn issue - I'm not aware of any other problems. Robyn

When you've got to be out of the house at 7:00. and you make a complete breakfast every morning, there's not much point in cooking from scratch the few things that are as good from a mix. Pretty much it would come down to having time to serve meat and/or eggs with the pancakes, or pancakes only. (Be still, my pancreas!) I don't eat breakfast. So when I'm eating pancakes it's for brunch/lunch - even sometimes dinner. And it isn't a mark of Cain to use a mix. I use White Lily Buttermilk pancake mix. It comes in convenient little packets with enough for 2-3 people (8 pancakes). Robyn

Robyn, you make a good point, though perhaps it can add something. The odd thing is that few restaurants actually bother to call up their 'waitlist' in place of a cancellation or no show. that table goes to the next person to ring or show up. the credit card gives them no incentive to ring the waitlist, and surely you must act to mitigate your losses. incidentally, many, many non CC restaurants don't ring the wait list either. If you don't follow up your wait list, how important is a cancellation in the bigger picture really? Now, no doubt someone will be argue overly that this does not happen, they will be wrong, but that's another story. Well - I have never put myself on a waitlist. My rule of thumb is at a big deal popular restaurant - you reserve far in advance - or just take a chance and walk in at 8. I have on a few occasions been a "walk in" at 8 - but that is only when the restaurant where I had my original reservation screwed up - and I walked out. There aren't too many times when it's a choice between watching TV in my nightie but if I get a call at 6 that there's been a cancellation - I'll get all dressed up and run out. Has anyone here ever put him/herself on a waitlist? With what kind of luck? Robyn

I will try that one when we get a bit of cold weather. I can recommend the recipe in Julia Child's The Way to Cook. Try it (the recipes are similar but a bit different - the fatback is obviously essential). Let me know what you think. Only problem I have with the Julia Child recipe these days is it's hard to find "common crackers" in Florida. Robyn

This is a great post. Are you a math professor (only reason I ask is my husband takes advanced math courses as a hobby - something he couldn't do 35 years ago when he was grubbing for grades in college - he was inducted into the math honor society when he was 55)? I especially agree about the role of the internet with regard to several points. First - I will note that I'm an ok home cook. Not terrible - not great. I know my customers - and they like what I put on the table. I have my strengths - and my weaknesses. These days - when I want a new recipe - I go to the internet. Find perhaps 4-5 recipes from trustworthy sources. Then think a bit - discarding the things that are obviously stupid - and kind of average the differences among the recipes I have left. Note that I do not recommend this for baking . The first time I try something new - it will either be just for me and my husband - or a single dish out of many if there are guests. In other words - a trial run. So if it stinks - I don't have to worry. I may discard a first try that doesn't have any promise - rework a first try that does. If it's "wow" from everyone at the table - it's a keeper. Also - I've found both pictures and videos on the internet that are useful. In one of the threads I started here - about how to cook a prime rib (which I had never done before - like I have said previously - we don't eat a lot of beef) - another forum member pointed me to something on the internet which showed me all the pictures start to finish. It was an enormous help. I have about 75 cookbooks - but I haven't bought a new one in a couple of years - and I'm not sure I'll ever buy another. The internet is my cookbook - and I am close to 60. What about all those 20-30 somethings in the world? I have to think if I'm using the internet a lot - they're using it more. Robyn

It's funny - I was reading some old threads here last night - and there was one written by an Indian Chef. And he was saying the same thing you're saying - but from the point of view of Indian cuisine. That you can't just dump curry on something and claim to have invented some new creative "Indian fusion cuisine". I agree with you about home cooking - and will take your word for it when it comes to what goes on in professional kitchens. Most Americans don't cook hardly anything at home anymore. Heck - even Campbell's had to put a pop-top on its cans to get people to buy its soups. Why don't they cook? I'm sure there are a lot of reasons - but a primary one has to be time. I know I didn't learn how to cook at all until I retired. And now that I do cook at home - I still want something where I can buy all of the ingredients at my local grocery store - and not spend 2 days in the kitchen to put something on the table. As for restaurant eating - I am better at making reservations than making home-cooked meals . And I don't want to spend $200+ to be a guinea pig for the chef's latest musings about whether "this" goes with "that". I want something professional and polished. It doesn't have to be a recipe that's 50 or 100 years old - but I expect the kitchen to get the "kinks" out of the dish before it appears on my plate. By the way - next time we get a cold spell here in north Florida - I will make my classic macaroni and cheese for dinner - from scratch. If it's good enough for Alain Ducasse - it's good enough for me . Robyn

I think you underestimate the importance of the pictures (I have the 6th edition). For most non-professionals like me - and even professionals who - like me - don't work with particular things very often - the pictures are great. E.g., I don't eat/cook beef very often. First time I bought a whole tenderloin of beef - the pictures were great in terms of showing me exactly what everything should look like when I butchered it. I don't get the comparison between a book like this and P.F. Chang's. What do they have in common? I also have Peterson's book. The pictures in that book are frequently prettier from a graphical point of view - but frequently not as useful. If I want pretty (indeed beautiful in my mind ) - I will stick with La Maison du Chocolat (Linxe). There is an old phrase in medicine - "see one, do one, teach one". This book allows you to "see one" in pictures if you can't see one in person. For worth it's worth - there are some neat websites which also have pictures showing you how to do things. Check out the Joe's stone crabs site - which has a video showing you how to crack stone crabs (don't think most people would figure it out without pictures if they've never seen the process before). Robyn

There are costs associated with installing appliances - moving stuff around - hiring contractors - pulling permits - etc. So far you're still on paper. Why don't you go to a place like Home Depot or Lowe's - and have them work up some proposals on cabinets and flooring? Don't think they charge anything for it. Worst you can do is review the options and say "no". Robyn

I did. Shame on me. How ungrateful! I am following this thread but don't have much to add since the last time we chatted because we don't eat in/near Daytona that often. We did go to Bistro Aix in Jacksonville (San Marco) last week -and it was very good (not to mention that it was just about the only place in that area that was open on a Sunday night). Robyn (in St. Johns County)

The problem as stated is that if I tell you about a place you'd like - your parents/inlaws will not want to go there. And - if they do go - they will complain throughout the whole meal. My husband and I (late 50's) are from Miami (don't live there now). My parents (80+) live near Boca - and we go through this several times a year. We have developed a workable game plan. We arrive at the Marriott at Boca Center Friday night. We go to Big City for a stiff drink. We eat at Uncle Thai's (which is adequate - particularly if - like us - you're from a place like Jacksonville with no edible Chinese food) because the only alternatives my parents will go to are smaller more local places with early bird specials that the restaurants bought at Costco. It is the only place where my mother will eat a dish that is overly salted and not die from congestive heart failure. My parents go home early. My husband and I have a couple more stiff drinks at Big City. My husband gets to see many surgically enhanced breasts. He is happy. I am drunk. The next morning - my parents - starting at 9 am - will give me 10,000 reasons why they cannot possibly go out to lunch and/or get there by noon. Nevertheless - they will somehow manage to get ready and dressed by noon. We go to Legal Seafoods at the Boca mall (another adequate restaurant). We will discourage my mother - who doesn't eat real fish - from ordering the calimari because last time she sent it back because some of the pieces weren't totally round - they had legs. I do not drink before the evening - but sometimes I wish I did. The mall is great. I have fun spending money. My mother complains that everything costs too much. Saturday evening my mother makes her special dinner. Reheated BBQ chicken. My father BBQs chicken - then freezes it - then they reheat it. If any of you have seen the movie "Mother" with Albert Brooks and Debbie Reynolds - you will appreciate the significance of the freezer in contemporary senior citizen life. I can manage to get down the dark meat. My husband needs massive quantities of liquid to get down the white meat. We have a light lunch at my parents' house on Sunday - and then we are free to go to Miami - where we eat good food and have fun. Sad thing is - there are actually some ok restaurants around this neck of the woods (although I do not recommend Mark's on the Park - Zemi's is better - but it's the kind of place where you wish you just had appetizers and dessert). Even an Indian restaurant near my parents' house was ok - except it was the first time my parents ever ate Indian food and they swore they never would again. So if you're making a dutiful child visit to parents - I feel your pain - and recommend the very large martinis at Big City. In some ways - it is easier with my father-in-law - who lives in a nursing home near us. When we take him out for lunch or dinner - his standard line is - "don't you know any moderately priced places" (which applies to any restaurant where a lunch main course is more than $5 and a dinner main course is more than $10). I hear this again and again - even though dinner is always on us. Still - he doesn't get to pick the restaurants - so we have a fighting chance of getting a really good meal (only variable is the local restaurant scene). Anyway - I think we need a good shrink as much as a food critic in this thread. Robyn

Exactly where are you staying? Do you have a car? What would you like to eat? Big-medium-or little deal places? Miami/MetroDade - including the beach areas - is a *very* big place with lots of nasty traffic. I lived there for over 20 years - and am going down on a business trip in March - so I'll try to help if I can. Robyn

It would be stretching a point to call this particular incident a "no show" as a cancellation call was made. My understanding of a no show is when the party fails to turn up and does not advise the restaurant in advance. No one has mentioned another force in this little drama - the people who *didn't* get a reservation because of the person who made the reservation first - but canceled. I will be in London in the spring - and I want to eat at Gordon Ramsey on 5/28 (my husband's birthday). So I will try to get on the phone 1 month in advance to make that reservation. And it would make me very mad if I couldn't get the reservation I want - but 1/3 of the people who did get reservations did so on "spec" (perhaps they'd eat there that night - perhaps they wouldn't). By the way - just bought theater tickets for another night - and in that arena - it's simply "no refunds - do not ask". Robyn

P.S. The big single bowl sink I use is an Elkay. It's a special order - but it's not all that expensive. Everyone has things they like and don't like. Note that a stainless steel sink will develop a patina of countless little tiny lines after it's been in use for a while. This is normal. Doesn't bother me. But it might bother other people (perhaps you). Robyn

Everyone is different. My house is mid-century modern. Everything in the kitchen is white except for the floor. So granite won't work from a design point of view. I used Corian with a full bullnose (my third Corian kitchen job). Love the look (but that is of course a personal thing). I installed it about 7 years ago. Don't know if Silestone was widely available then (don't think so) - but if I did a new kitchen today - I'd compare the two. I don't have kids and I am pretty neat. I don't put hot pots directly on the counter or cut on it. The one time I made a mess on a Corian counter (dropped a pile of dishes) - I found a great repair guy who fixed the hole I made. I can get any stains out of the white Corian the morning after (curry powder - red wine - whatever) with a little light scrubbing using a bleach cleanser like Comet. Whatever you use - make sure you have a decent matching backsplash. Don't under any circumstances use marble. It is extremely porous and a total pain in my opinion. I have never used it in a kitchen - but had the misfortune to use it in bathrooms. Never again - anywhere in any house where I live. In this house - I used a flecked gray Corian in the bathrooms. Exactly the look I was trying to get - very low maintenance. I have used integrated Corian sinks in my bathrooms. But - in the kitchen - all I ever want is a big old stainless steel sink which can take lots of abuse. If you have a good kitchen installer who makes a good tight seam - a wipe once a day will keep the crud away. Robyn

I don't like to add fruit to the batter because of the water content - but I put it on top. Especially like sliced strawberries that have been dusted with some confectioner's sugar to make them juicy. And what would pancakes be without some nice crispy bacon? Robyn

I am not sure why you think Pinot Grigio or American wines like Pinot Gris made from the US grapes are lousy. Perhaps some of them are - but a lot aren't. And they don't - like most of the over oaky Chardonnays that are on restaurant menus these days - overpower the food you're eating. I - unlike a lot "wine people" - have a funny philosophy about stuff you drink with food (whether it's alcoholic or non). It should complement it - not dominate it. I don't know much about zinfandels - but I wound up drinking a riesling which I wouldn't have ordered on my own (it was recommended by staff) at Alain Ducasse - and it was fabulous (at $130/bottle - it should have been fabulous). I will reserve the more dominating wines to be drunk alone - or perhaps with a bit of fruit and cheese. And some really extraordinary wines - like some really big whites - should only be had on special occasions like when you're eating the best appetizer in the world in a 3 star restaurant in Paris. In more pedestrian circumstances - please tell me what's wrong with a King Estates Pinot Gris? Robyn

I forgot some emoticons in this post and don't have time to do a complete edit this morning. Will post later this weekend when I have the time. Robyn

How big is yours ? Mine is - default - 8 quarts - for 8-16 ounces of dry pasta. Never timed it - but I think it takes about 20-30 minutes to boil. I'll use a larger pot for things like lasagne noodles - but that's not what we're talking about here. By the way - I forgot in my last message to recommend boxed Parmalat chopped tomatoes. They make a nice sauce base. Very low salt content. Hope the company doesn't go out of business after all this financial accounting nonsense - don't know what I'd do without their milk and tomatoes. Robyn

You're right that the determining factor is how long it takes to get a big pot of water to boil. Fastest meal I can put on the table is pasta with pesto - and it never takes less than 30 minutes to boil the water and cook the pasta. I make fresh pesto during the summer and find that it keeps ok in my refrigerator for about 6 months if I seal the containers with a bit of olive oil (sometimes I grow some mold which I scrape off). You need gobs of fresh basil to make lots of pesto - but basil is easy. All you need is heat and water and sun. Try pots anywhere outside if you don't have a garden - even on a fire escape if you live in New York. I also use the pine nuts from Costco. If you want something faster - my husband and I buy the Freschette pepperoni (sp?) pizzas from Costco (3 for about $12). While the oven is heating - we cut up onions - peppers - mushrooms - whatever is in the refrigerator. We can usually finish the cutting by the time the oven is heated up. Throw them on the pizza and cook the pizza. This will take about 30 minutes start to finish - including heating the oven - but it's a good pizza - and all you have to clean is your cutting board and knife. Robyn

I don't know if it's relevant in North Carolina - but you can add smoking bans as a factor too as far as I'm concerned. I used to spend a lot of money in independent restaurants (hardly ever ate in chains - still don't) - and - once I couldn't smoke in a restaurant - not even at the bars in the restaurants - I decided to cut back. My restaurant bills are down over 50% this last year. Robyn P.S. Smokers tend to drink - which is where restaurants make a lot of their money.

I have eaten traditional Cuban tres leches many times (if there's a Mexican version - I'm not familiar with it). Are you trying to make the traditional dish - or just doing a variation on a theme? Note that the traditional version is very very much too sweet in my opinion. Robyn

Is it essential to keep the eating counter? (I don't agree.) Or is what you're saying is you'd like to keep a sense of "openness" between the kitchen and the living room? (I think that's relatively important - especially when you have kids.) No matter what - I suspect you're willing to have people here play with the plans and toss around some ideas. Robyn