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I haven't had a excuse to Roast a Whole Fresh Ham Recently, but it's always been one of my favorites. Especially if theres any left overs. Weather you leave the external fat on or butcher it off is a personal option. But eather way it okay to only score to the exterior surface of the meat, sort of where the resilent bounces back to the tip of your knife. Again how or if you score is optional. In Roasting a whole ham I recommend setting it up elevated enough on a wire grill [can be done using plates or whatever] that you can put a chicken stock or water bath underneath. As its roasting this will catch all the drippings and juices to be the base for your gravy or au jus after you've strained or skimmed the fat. If you wish you may add celery and onions for flavor. Place your ham in the pan for roasting and Roast at 225 degrees begining with the shin side up. if you have a oven probe insert or check the internal temperture with a thermometer. when the temperture is about 110 degrees rotate the ham and cook until it reaches 125/130 degress. Rotate again and raise the oven temperature to 325 degrees and cook until 145 degrees. The exterior should be nicely Browned and the Ham will be moist and tender. Remove from oven and let set for at least 15/20 minutes. The temperature should rise about 10 degrees during this period cooking the ham throughout. While the ham is setting prepare your Au Jus or Gravy from the drippings, slice and enjoy. Irwin

Sarah: Even though i'm from Seattle my care packages from Zabars, 2nd Ave Deli always include Chopped Liver. Remember it good for you ! Gramma was always right. Enjoy it's naturally full of love, it's high protien and I hope made with Schmaltz. Living in NYC your at Chopped Liver Heaven, it shoud be available at any Jewish Style place. Don't forget that the majority of Dairy Restaurants offer a actually real good for you "Chopped Liver" [sort off] that tastes pretty good. Eat in Good Health [enjoy] a treat since it's always a special occasion. Irwin

I know this is slightly off topic but i'd like to share something that brought me into becoming interested in Hakka Food. In 1965 just about when womans lib and equality in the job place became so newsworthy in America I became awed by the Hakka Woman in Hong Kong and wanted to learn more about the people. A little known fact about the massive construction in Hong Kong was that this was based upon the skill and ability of the many Hakka Woman who were responsable for the amazing Bamboo Scaffolding that was put up on the exterior of every building project, seemingly overnight. The exterior Scaffolding was put up, and if need be taken down due to Monsoons extremly quick and this skill was done by the Hakka's, now matter how high or large the building were being built. They also were a very important part of the framing and forming being done in the buildings. At every topping off party, even for the individual floors of construction the were parties held for the crew at "Hakka Restaurants", since I was working at various projects with the Architects I managed to get myself included and became infactuated with Hakka Food. These were amazing hard working people, with pecusrsors of womans lib, they were certainly exceptional plus sure had great food, mostly prepared by men at their restaurants. One of the most famous dishes was "Beef Testaciles" Hakka Style that my wife used to kid had something to do with womans lib. Not sure but tasted much better then "Prarie Oysters". Irwin

Laurel: I'd recommend that you order: Pork Belly with Pickled Vegetables Salt Chicken Mochi Duck Salt & Pepper Chili Shrimp These are all Hakka Dishes that are most popular in Hong Kong They sometimes have "Tripe" which tastes better then it sounds the Hakka way. THe owner is generally there and he will be pleased to offer suggestions. Just tell him the "Fai Low" from Honolulu his brothers customer and friend from their restaurant in Hawaii. I hope that you enjoy you meal, Irwin

I've eaten at T@T about 10/12 times and find that it's not consistant enough to compare with the Seafood Restaurants in the International District or the East Side or even by the Ranch 99 in Kent. Anticipate several good Restaurants opening by the new 99 Ranch Market located in Edmunds. They are pleasant, but they don't maintain their tanks as well as they should, [changing filters, etc]. They are better then almost all the current Cantonese Restaurants in the North of Seattle. I'm bewildered by the popularity of the 'Snappy Dragon" as i've never gotten anything from there either eating on premise or delivered that I enjoyed. I feel it's the most over rated chinese restaurant in Seattle. Even the Mandarin Gate does a better meal for standard dishes. If your interested in trying "Hakka Food" then i'd recommend "Dong Kong Lau Hakka Restaurant" located at 9710 Aurora Ave North. They serve very good Seafood, Regular and Hakka selections plus interesting varieties of Dum Sum for lunch with a larger variety on weekends. Irwin

Fifi: This may become one of the BIGGEST years ever for Morel Gathering. This is due to the fact the traditionally after any burns Morels are much more abundent in the burn areas. My son has been collecting much more this year then he's ever experience on the Northern California areas. I've heard of them in Seattle. My favorite is to collect 'Puff Balls", in the spring. They can grown into 5/7 pounds and are increadable. Sorry had to double read your post. Thought you ment Moral Season at first glance. Seemed to go together with Texas Barbque then Morel Mushrooms. I once read somewhere that they were sometimes found at the LBJ Ranch area. Irwin

Fifi: I'm right. In Seattle we have at last count many places that feature Texas Style Hot Links, especially the Pecos Bit Barbque that has awed and brought to tears many visiting Texan's seeking the real Brisket and Hot Links. There are others all around town that sell the Real Thing. Irwin

WOW ! I'm surprised that we are become Hot with something else besides Coffee in Seattle. There seems to be a prolifigation of various "Hot Links", home made at many Barbque Places and available in many Meat Counters or Butchers all over town from Louisiana, Texas, California and anywhere else they can be aquired from. Even the majority of Hot Dog Cartes offer All Beef, Polish and a Hot Link for their Customers and this isn't counting our very popular Hot Italian Sausage or Cherizo's. I'm glad that we are one up on other places and officially HOT. Irwin

This is a great idea that is not seen often enough, but it does bring up an interesting picture in my mind. -A Sommelier riding through the dining room on a mini engine followed by cars loaded down with cheese, dessert, fabulous drinks, and a caboose filled with coffee. He could wear a little engineers hat and have one of those wooden whistles that sounds like a train and the patrons would be able to flag him down at the ....................- Well.-Maybe not All Aboard!! <train whistle sound> Mark: Thought you'd be interested about the fact that the three accredited Sommeliers that were then working in Honolulu were reqular customers plus friends who would often request the opportunity to try serving our customers from the Liquor Cart, many of whom they new from their reqular jobs. Now thats what I call experienced volunteers. Everyone of them was there for the Cognac/Brandy Tasting that we put together for the Original Charlies Angels under the supervision of Frank Schoonmaker who had provided many of the Botigue Cognacs but I was the only one every kissed by all the Angels in public. At our Restaurant "Lisboa" in Honolulu our best and most repeat customers were all from the food service industry, plus they invariably sent many of their customers who asked where to go in Honolulu. That together with the 4th Estate and the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson could be attributed to our success. Nothing is better then word of mouth for generating business. Irwin

I grew up loving Bagels learning that almost everyplace that made and sold them had it's own personality. Even as a kid i'd be able to tell where they came from just by the taste. During this period I was familiar with the Bronx, Brooklyn, UWS and LES, Queens and Nasseau County. When I opened Lindy's in Hong Kong in 1965 I arranged for Rye Breads from Kasanoff's Bakery in Bostom who had been successfull in Freezing Breads as well as a Bagel Bakery in Brookln who was willing to pre bake and freeze Bagels and also Lenders who was becoming established using the new fangled Bagel Forming Machine and was freezing and distributing nationally. Before I even considered Lenders I had the opportunity to observe first hand that they were being served at the Concord Hotel in Kiamisha Lake NY where the Chef Steve had worked for my family at Schenks Paramount in South Fallsburg for 22 years. [now owned by the Chabad]. Both Winerick and Parker advised me that the guests seemed happy with these Lenders Frozen Bagels and they were pleased with the considerable savings. After opening in Hong Kong it quickly became appearent that I'd have to bake my own Rye Bread and Bagels at the Restaurant in addition to making Corned beef and Pastrami from scratch. In order to be comfortable doing this I returned to the states and was able to have my Baker friend Dave Horowitz a Master Baker who had been my neighbor in Franklyn Lakes NJ before I relocated to teach me what it required to formulate and bake the Bagels and Rye Breads. After spending several weeks learning hands on but mostly by observing Rye Bread making at Davids Bakery in East Orange, at the Claremont Diner [where I had worked] and Kasanoff's in Boston I was provided with several Rye Bread starters. For Bagels it was more intensive physical work, but there was one secret that was universally shared by the best Bagel Bakers that I was sworn to keep confidential. This one step is what I feel was the magic ingredient in the handmade, boiled high heat baked Bagels that were unique to the East Coast. The most amazing part of the whole process to me was how basic and simple this all was. My Hong Kong Bakers were able to understand the techniques required with no problems. The most interesting thing was that my customers preferred to think that we were importing the majority of the products we were serving. We continued to charge accordingly even though we made our own Pickles, Mustard, Gefulte Fish, Horeradish, Corned Beef, Pastrami. American Leghorn Eggs, Cheesecakes, Ruggalah, Smoked Salmon all from scratch. In Seattle it seems that I require a Zabars care package every few months just for Comfort Foods, sometimes i'll alternate with Russ and Daughters or 2nd Avenue Deli but it's the closest I can get to the real thing. Irwin

Woodburner: Check the posts on the "Yunnan Ham" topic. The French Bayonne Ham is not smoked. It is a a Air Cured Ham quite similar to the Serrano or Acorn fed Hams from Spain or the Parma Prosuitto from Italy. There is a project being developed during the last several years of producing a comparable quality Air Cured Ham by a dedicated Virginia Cure Master/Farmer as a labor of love. It will probably be available in about 2 years. All these type of Hams, especially in my opinion the Chinese Yunnan Style are the finest available. Irwin

Thought that this topic requires some information even more SCARY. One of the recent surveys done by my former associates provided some information that I was sub conciously aware about. It appears that many Food Service Professionals in the corperate or self employed segments of the Hotel, Food and Restaurant Industy have a disproportinate amout of Children who become Lawyers. Thru the years this had become something that I sensed but hadn't put together, i'm sure that eGullet is providing a natural balance for this situation especially since most of us [including me] feel that our children who became Attorneys did so to avoid become involved with this type of business. Certainly in my case this was the situation, even though for the first 12 years my daughter practised as a Attorney she returned to work for several days at my restaurants just because she only wanted to reassure herself of her choice. Shes a very successfull Attorney,considered one of Wall Steets finest litigators specializing in Bankrupcy with Westchester and Hampton homes. But my other Daughter who has a Masters degree in Enviorment from Havard tells me that shes surprised that so many people in her field have parents who are in the Food business. If this is a trend i'm curious if other eGullet posters have any additional information. Irwin

The expense of sustaining a more then curisory Wine by the Glass program in the great majority of Restaurants is almost impossable if you take into consideration the realitys sustaning the quality of products. Consideration in my experience [opened Wine Bar with by the glass, 1/2 bottle and 750 mil in 1974 in Honolulu.] this is very difficult. Since there was no products available at that time to prevent oxidation this could easily become expensive. Our saving point was during that period the 15 varietals that we offered were all in the same price range, and after 2 days were returned to the kitchen for restaurant applications in cooking. The major benefit was that it allowed us to eliminate 1/2 bottles from inventory, as well as carafe or bulk wines. Since we were operating a ethinic restaurant serving seafoods, as well as spicy dishes we were able to merchandise interesting ethinic wines, not available in most instances thru retail outlets. Our biggest sellers,that we purchased in 100 case lots were Portugese Wines. Red Dow of Grao Versco, White Dow of Grao Vesco, Castalinho Rose and Vino Verde that we were able to sell at excellent mark ups. Eventually the majority of our customers preferred these wines as the weren't expensive and complimented the dining experience. For House Wines we offered superior but reasonably priced 2 liter bottles of Italian Red and White for generic by the glass sales or bulk. Open only for dinner we averaged 85 to 140 covers nightly. Our check average was on of the highest per person for the United States due to the high price of fresh Hawaii Seafood. If we weren't able to absorb and utilize the by the Glass Wines into our heavily wine consuption for kitchen use the Wine Bar wouldn't have been operating at a profit. Our biggest check booster and reputation builder was our Liquor/Brandy Cart serving in excess of 150 selections tableside, backed up by a additional 250 selections available from the bar inventory. It excited customers who would normally order a Grand Mariner to have the option of indulging in a Grand Mariner Centeraire not available anywhere else, or if they wanted Chartruse to be offered it in Yellow, Green or the Essence. We also did Prouse Cafe or combinations such as Frangelico topped off with Chambord, or Coffe Drinks with Italian Expresso Liquor. We even were selling Louie IV and other super Brandies that we'd serve after providing a pallette preparer while it was warming in the snifter of a VSOP that complimented the Premium Brandy. This was more fun and exciting then anything we were able to offer in Wines, even though we sold lots of Champagne. We made sure to provide interesting, but not high priced Glassware, even using Giant 128 oz Brandy Glasses for table sharing Braby or Liquor sevice that excited our customers on special occassions and often could be the reason that special surprise parties were so popular. Irwin

Gary: WOW !!! : That would really be a DUTCH TREAT I'm amazed that the Europeans haven't realized that they have available some of the best tasting Crabs available anywhere. They are certainly superior in taste to most of the Crabs i've eaten anywhere, but this may be due to the fact that they are only available seasonally at their best. Fat [Roe] containing Female Crabs in the larger size have always been expensive where ever they are sold, cetainly more expensive then they cost in Holland, but even though air fare costs for international travel are more reasonable then domestic i'll wait till they are available on our Continent. The temptations in Holland are two much to have to deal with and would effect my concentration on eating the crabs, but not my appetite. Irwin

Steve: Your mentioning that Spanish or French Hams aren't legal in Canada makes me question if my information is correct. Since the USA has been importing various Spanish, Italian and French Hams recently. i'm surprised that they aren't available in Canada. The Canadian Goverment has been more ammeniable for Seafood and Fruit or Vegetable imports then America. Especially on items from Hawaii and the Pacific such as Mangos and Fruits. I was told that they had received the Fresh Water Crabs [Hairy Crabs] last year and it was rumored that some were imported into San Francisco but not verified. I'm sure that if they were shipped into the bay area that Gary Soup would hear about that occurance. I'm ready to travel anywhere that I could indulge in the Crabs on this continent, especially with the Ginger/Crabapple Tea. Irwin

I don't think importation of hams of any type from China is permitted. I personally got nailed at SF International for having a nice hunk of Jinhua ham in my luggage. $50 on the spot and a stern lecture. Gary: They must have you on "The List". I've had friends who have carried it into the country in their carry on or personal luggage and most got through but those whom were stopped only had it confiscated. Non were ever fined. I've brought Hong Kong made "Lap Chong and Duck Sausage" thru customs from Vancover BC and been passed without any comment or warning. My next trip i'll be returning with a Yunnan Ham since i've been told it's now available in Canada, but i'll most likely have someone else try bringing some in, since I don't get to Vancover that often. If I luck out i'll send you a hunk, just to get on the good side of your Shanghai half . I understand that they also are getting the Shanghai Eels served Sizziling with Black Pepper and may get Fresh Water Crabs this Winter. Irwin

The best Oyster Stew is still the basic, as introduced at the Oyster Bar in Grand Central Station where it became popularized. My variation was one that I learned from a vernable Brooklyn institution that often served several hundred orders daily. The restaurant was called, "Joes" located at Brooklyn Ny's City Hall area, and is the only restaurant i've ever been in that has it's own esculator. The place had over 600 seats with a mezzanine area that was filled at lunch time by Jury's from the nearby courts. There were Bus boys who were kept on their toes just refilling water glasses. there was a Pantry up in the front with Cold Dishes and desserts and a jumping Kitchen in the rear. The menus were written daily with over 2 pages loaded with choices. They seved Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner and Supper daily. I hated when it closed due to Urban Renewal. here were several attempts to reopen and copy Joes but none were successfull. Joes Oyster Stew. "Ingedients" Shucked Oysters [9] Butter [1 oz] Worstershire Sauce [2 dashes] Tabasco [1 dash] Celery Seed [1/2 teaspoon] Black Pepper [2 dashes] 1/2 & 1/2 [1 cup] "Method" Start with 2 pans Fry Saute Pan Sauce Pan Heat Sauce Pan with 1/2 & 1/2 to simmer. Heat Fry Pan , melt butter. Place Oysters into melted Butter until they start to Plump and Curl. Immediately put into Sauce pan with simmering 1/2 & 1/2. mix in the seasonings , allow to simmer about 45/60 seconds then pour into a warm bowl and serve with Oyster Crackers. Try this made in this manner and i'm sure that you won't be disappointed or be interested in any contrived variations. I've tried it so many other ways and still feel this tastes the best. Real Comfort Food. Irwin

4 more thrift shop finds: Florance Greenburgs "Jewish Cookbook". Christopher Blakes "Easy Elegance Cookbook" "Pierre Franey's Kitchen" by Pierre Franey Andrew & Jinny Salmon "Seoul Food Finder". Seems that theres something new and interesting everytime that finds me. Irwin

Pan; I'm not concerned about the copyrights on that series of Cookbooks as i've still all my notes from the 8 publications of the Hong Kong Gas Company Cookbooks and the translations are vaugly attributed but not copyrighted. Actually there are very few recipes that may actually be legitimitly copyrighted since they almost all evolved from many different sources. As example the type of recipe that resulted in the "Portugese Chicken" dish written about in the Gas Company Cookbook was made from a variation that was served at a small country Restaurant located in the New Territory section close to the Royal Hong Kong Golf Course near Fanling that I think may have been called "The Hollywood", in English that made several wonderfull large Pyrax Casserrole Dishes that were Portugese Chicken, Baked Squab, Baccalau [Dried Codfish] with Potatoes, various Vegetables and Cheese Combinations and our favorite Fresh Crab au Gratin. It was very popular with the Army and British expaitriates and had been there very low keyed for many years. When we started going there they acted surprised that Hollywood was the location in the USA where Movies had become popular from, plus they were also getting business from Chinese Families and Americans who were interested in the dishes they were serving. Irwin

jo-mel: The only type of Prosciutto that can be compared to Yunnan type Ham is the varieties from "Parma". If you wast the closest available Ham they try to obtain Spanish Serrano Ham or if you can find it French Bayonne. All these Hams including the Chinese Yunnan or Jinhua Hams are naturally Air Dried none of them are Smoked. I prefer the Spanish as they have the wonderfull moistness that also unique to the Yunnan Hams. Irwin

Michael & Mabelline: No You can't susitute Kitchen Boquet for Maggi. Kitchen Bouquet is primarily a coloring agent, Maggi is a purported Flavor Enhancer quite popular in Asian Foods made by Knorr. It can be found in most asian Grocers at resonable prices in many sizes. For some reason when it's available in regular super markets it more expensive. The easiest alternative would be MSG, again much less expensive at Asian Grocers. There are many places that I haven't traveled to but i've certainly enjoyed my quest for what tastes best and street foods at every opportunity. I Almost overcome the first time I grilled Fresh Siberian Salmon or Coconut Crab in Fuji but must admit that the foods I miss most are so many treats from NYC that never taste the same anywhere else. Irwin

I have found that several of the imported Spanish Hams. as well as Italian Hams are acceptable in place of Yunnan Ham. The domestic versions still have quite away to go before they will become comparable. Even in Hong Kong I when I was able to experiment with the simularities of the Yunnan Type Hams there seemed to be a kinship with several of the Spanish Hams. I understant that they are sometimes available in Vancover, BC Canada Asian Markets. Somehow i've never felt that any of the Virginia Hams did not have the character or flavor comparable to Yunnan Hams. Irwin

Mabelline & Sun-Ki: The African use of almost every non-native spice, seasoning and herbs most like can be attributed the the Portugese Spice Traders who introduced these items into the cultures. With most special or unique spices they were carefully introduced into the market place in a form that made sure not to provide seeds or anything that would allow the customers to produce or grow their own spices. In Africa the Chilis were powdered, ground or always broken into small pieces. The very spicy Cayanne and Chillis were identified by calling the mixtures "Piri Piri' or "Berebere', or some variation to most African Tribal Cultures. The same was applied into Asia and India permitting many years of very high profits. During my research I found information that showed how the type and basis for Curry started in the Ango-Saxon Market, especially Germany, France and England. The Large Wood Boxes of Spices imported into Europe from Asia and India on the Black Ships was generally sold in Whole Pieces. However there was quite a bit of Residue and Powder that remained in the Boxes after packing. This was mixed together with Tumeric ground and powdered to bring a uniform color and mixed. This mixed spice was moderately priced and became popular being marketed as "Curry" that was adapted from the Indian name for Mixed Spices. Now will get to the recipe. There was very little use of Nuts in the stews served in Macau that were called African or Portugese until the 1970's when there were several attempts to experiment with African Cusine at several of the upscale Restaurants. The first place it was served was at the Buffet at the Lisboa Hotel. "PORTUGESE CHICKEN" From the Towngas Cookery Book of the Hong Kong & China Gas Company Cookbook First Edition May 1962. INGREDIENTS whole chicken [cut into pieces] 3/4 pounds onion diced 1 3/4 pound potato large dice 1/2 pound mushrooms quartered 6 hard boiled eggs, peeled & cut in 1/2 3 oz evaporated milk 3/4 pound coconut milk 2 1/2 tablespoons flour 2 oz. butter 1/2 teaspoon saffron [optional] 1 cup rich chicken broth 4 tablespoons peanut oil salt & pepper to taste 1 whole spring onion sliced thin 4 thin slices peeled ginger INGREDIENTS FOR SEASONING CHICKEN 1 teaspoon maggi sauce 2 tablespoons red or white wine 2 teaspoons soy sauce METHOD: Mix Chicken with seasoning ingredients, let stand for 1 hour. Heat peanut oil add spring onion and ginger, ffry until brown. Remove onion and ginger from oil. Put chicken into hot oil and fry for 3 minutes and put aside. Put onions and Potato into hot oil to fry. In seperate pot heat butter, add flour, then saffron. add 1/2 chicken both and evaporated milk to make into a thick sauce. Then add Chicken and mix well; then add rest of stock, mushrooms, onions and potatoes, hard boiled eggs, 1/2 the coconut milk allow to simmer 10 minutes. Place into a greased or buttered Baking Dish, add the rest of the Coconut Milk and a small piece of butter and bake for 1/2 hour. Use Thermostat setting MARK 4 [375 degrees]. I copied this directly from the cookbook making several modifications in ingredients allowing for the 2003 market, and not colonial Hong Kong. This cookbook was one of the first attempts to translate English to Chinese/Chinese to English published for the Hong Kong Market for use in households and restaurants, where the great majority of cooks were Chinese. The use of Manufactured or Propane Gas was only available in the more upscale area, as the majority of residential cooking was by use of Kerosine Stoves. Irwin

What we are all HURTING for in the recent threads, about Katz's, New York Chinese Food, Schmaltz, Brisket, Ruggalah and especially Bagels and Knishes, Appetizer Stores and Dairy Restaurants can be said in one word repeated 3 times for effect. TRADITION ! TRADITION ! TRADITION ! This is become so true that it almost hurts. It's also why I'm sure that the next money making restaurant food success will be in what I like to classify as NURSERY FOOD will esculate. Looking over the posting during the previous few months I personally feel that to many diners have become infactuated with contrived food, tapas [grazing?], ethinic mixtures. [fusion] fussiness [contrived overdecorated plates] and also shock effect. To me the reality of the dining experience is related to the success of the business. Based upon the actual cost of putting together so many of the Menus being served there are unnecessary labor and costs of food expenses that will lead to business failure in the future especially since it's now the landlords custom to offer short leases at high rent based upon percentages of sales. That is the reason so many truly good restaurants , bagel bakeries or any food related business were able to sustain business for generations. The were often set up and operated Traditionally. I still don't feel that a machine made bagel is in the same class as a traditional hand made bagel. In my tummy there no comparrison. I also tend to shudder when looking at all the varieties offered, not only in bagels but also in cream cheeses. Funny thing is I don't feel i'm getting older, or wiser. Maybe i'm developing "Thum". Irwin

budrichard: I agree that the Searing is not necesarry. However the poster that I responded to had requested that the Brisket have a Seared Exterior, that is may peoples preference. Since the amount of time I had recommended searing wasn't long enough with any home Broiler to actually Char the Meat it would not have signifiently effected the absorbtion of the moisture as it may do in a open smoker, since there was always a moisture base during the entire cooking process. The Dry Rubbing or Brine Soaking Methods of seasoning are only applicable if you wish to obtain a certain finish or taste to the Brisket. I advised the party preparing the Brisket to season according to her own taste as well as suggested how she should utilize the liquid smoke application while reinterating that the outside would be as she wished. Her response was that it was the best Brisket they'd ever eaten. The other responses were all very enthusiastic about the results. I hope that someday i'll have the opportunity to enjoy a Brisket that you've prepared as it seems to be a labor of love that matches my love of eating. Having had the opportunity to Judge many competitions I still enjoy every chance to indulge in well smoked foods. Irwin Irwin