Sourdough Bread Troubleshooting (Part 1)

[glennbech]

Thanks bill. I try to use the same recipe every time now, so that I get use to how the volume of the dough sould look in my proving basket, and in my mixing bowl during bulk ferment. Knowing one's equipment helps a lot .-)

I made an olive bread last night, and have to report partly failure. The olives are very salty, and togheter with 2% salt in my dough, the experience was wel... Let's say I was thirsty after just tasting it. -)

Will try again with less salt in the dough. Anyone with the same experience? Maybe I should try to rinse the olives, or soak them in water for a while before using ? Maybe change to a diferent type of olive?

Besides from that ; I get Increddible oven spring using my "bottom of the electric oven" teqnique. Im not sure I'll botter to re-invest in a new Baking stone .-) I will post pictures later showing the results .-)

[Desiderio]

Cool about the great oven spring, about the saltiness thats just a matter of the olives type and maybe I would try to rinse them first and make sure you taste them after to see if the are still too salty.

Hehe I wont trade my stone now , I have gas so the bottom thingy wont work too good and I think its too much work for me,but the stone doeas give me a huge oven spring as well so ,I am glad you found the way to get a good result .

Keep us posted on the olive bread as well , I am going to try a walnut one ( I made one with a yeast formula a while ago and was very good ( rustic type of bread ) but I can immagine how good will be with the sourdough I made last week .Will post the result if I have the time to make it ( Mother's day chocolate spree here i thought it would be just a few chocolates and instead I think I made more production that Easter helppp! hehe)

[glennbech]

Olive bread put on hold for a while, im working with a generic sourdough recipe for adding things like chopped olives, sundried tomato's etc. Adding dried gluten made the dough sureprisingly easy to handle. I will dry to get my hands on strong flour, but until then it's 3% added DGP :-)

I also read somwhere that the dried gluten poweder also helps colour. At least in Pasta, but I guess the same will go for bread .-)

Today I baked this ; (150g flour is in my leaven, 350 in the douhg, Im not sure If I've written down my percentages correct here)

300g white leaven (30%)

350g regular white flour (70%)

190g whater (66,7%)

50g Chopped sundried tomato's (10%)

15g Dry Gluten powder (3.33%)

10g salt (2%)

5g Vitamin C (1%)

.. My "slap-the-dough-directly-onto-the-bottom-of-the-electric-oven" teqnique also seems to be providing me with steady great oven spring .-)

I took some photo's of my experiment with the oven spring (all pictures), and also with my chopped sundried tomato bread (bottom right) that is now filling my apartment with a homely scent .-)

I'm so confident now that I promised my mother a batch of 5 loaves for her silver wedding anaversary .-) Better keep practicing .-)

Todays Q;

Is there any use in slashing a bread with "stuff" in it? let it be olives, tomato's, fruit etc? My (limited) experience is that the crust cracks up enough to let the dough rise, even without the slicing because the items pierce the crust. Any points of view on this ?

Edited May 11, 2006 by glennbech (log)

[glennbech]

... And if anyone can tell me if my laaarge holes is attributed to the violent oven spring, or my mixing (or perhaps both) I'd apericiate it .-)

It belongs to the story that the balls in the upper left picture were maybe half that size when they entered the oven .-)

[Desiderio]

The bread look fantastic !!

Really the kinda of bread that I am aming for .

Thank you for the pics they are great ).

Did you use that formula to get those loaves ( the one without the sundried tomatoes)?And another question where can I find the dried gluten and it does make a big difference if I am using a flour that is a little bit over 12% protein ?I mean is that strong enough or do I need to add the dried gluten to make it stronger?

Hehe lots of question , but today I did my last batch of chocolates for a while ( I need a break ) and I want to make another loaf or two for this week end , and I was thinking to try different things.

I still didnt buy the baskets ( I havent seen one like the ones you found ) I do have a gift basket I am using now with floured kitchen towles in it .

Did you find in you baking experiments that retarding the dough helped your bread ?And the mixing part is all by hand , food processor , KA or similar?

AHhh well dont blame me for all the questions you start it!!!!

Thank you for sharing I am really enjoying this thread a lot , like I have said before this was the first time I obtained a bread like that with a sourdough I am trilled.

[glennbech]

I love questions. Im not able to answer everything, but maybe others will chip in .-)

Q: Did you use that formula to get those loaves ( the one without the sundried tomatoes)

All the loaves are basicly the same recipe with some adjustments to scale only (but all aproxemately 67% hydration). The difference between my sundried tomato- and the other loaves, was that the tomato loaf was made with a very strong starter that doubled during bulk in a couple of hours. I baked it after a short 1.5-2 hour proof.

The other loaves that you see on the picture had a real slow, low-potent starter. I bulk fermented longer, and proofed longer without getting a double size. The result ended up the same due to better oven spring. This sourdough baking is still a bit of a mystery to me .-)

By the way ; The sundried tomato loaf tasted awfull .-) Wet chewy crumb and real sour tomatos. I think this happened because it's a larger dough than I usually make, and I kept the baking times the same. The sundried tomato's were also a bit wet....

Q: And another question where can I find the dried gluten and it does make a big difference if I am using a flour that is a little bit over 12% protein ?I mean is that strong enough or do I need to add the dried gluten to make it stronger?

In Norway it's difficult to find flour with greater protein content than 10,7 %, that's why I decided to add gluten. If your flour is 12%, then you might not get any noticible differnece. I buy my powder at a well stocked supermarket.

'

I'e seen a scientific report on the effects of adding gluten in pasta production

They state that adding anything above 3% does not yield any results. Maybe the same goes for bread? I don't feel qualified to answer your question on wether to add gluten or not to your already strong flour .-)

Q: Did you find in you baking experiments that retarding the dough helped your bread ?

Im a very inpatient person by nature, so up til now I've only tried to retard the dough once. I rather stay up all night and baby sit my dough :-) Even if it means beeing tired the entire day at work .-) I guess a retard would have been benficial for a flavoured dough (olives, tomatos etc).

Q: And the mixing part is all by hand , food processor , KA or similar?

AHhh well dont blame me for all the questions you start it!!!!

I love an active thread! .-) Keep stories and questions coming. I've learned so much after joining this fourum it's unbelievable .-)

After reading Dan's book "the handmade loaf" I've been hand mixing. However, I'm finding that during the initial mix, my hands get so sticky, that I wash 2-3 % of the dough off my fingers .-) I might go back to mixing the initial dough in my Kenwood Major.

I'm looking for some oval baskets now, and may go for some baguettes

this weekend .-)

Happy baking .-)

[glennbech]

No I have another tough question as well....

Im tired of getting wet crumb. My loaf had a weight of 816g (500g flour) when I put it inn and 700g when I took it out. (This was aproxemately what I was aiming for, a 700g loaf). It was at 67% hydratrion, and since only water can leave the loaf, I assume that 116g of water is gone, and the new hydration level of my finished loaf is 43,8%.

i will experiment with this and take notes of pre-and post bake weights, but If anyone could tell me at what hydration level a crumb dries up, I could take my bread out of the oven and put it on a scale to see if it's finished! That would be real nice!: -)

Edited May 12, 2006 by glennbech (log)

[Desiderio]

I love questions. Im not able to answer everything, but maybe others will chip in .-)

Q: Did you use that formula to get those loaves ( the one without the sundried tomatoes)

All the loaves are basicly the same recipe with some adjustments to scale only (but all aproxemately 67% hydration). The difference between my sundried tomato- and the other loaves, was that the tomato loaf was made with a very strong starter that doubled during bulk in a couple of hours. I baked it after a short 1.5-2 hour proof.

The other loaves that you see on the picture had a real slow, low-potent  starter. I bulk fermented longer, and proofed longer without getting a double size. The result ended up the same due to better oven spring. This sourdough baking is still a bit of a mystery to me .-)

By the way ; The sundried tomato loaf tasted awfull .-) Wet chewy crumb and real sour tomatos. I think this happened because it's a larger dough than I usually make, and I kept the baking times the same. The sundried tomato's were also a bit wet....

Q: And another question where can I find the dried gluten and it does make a big difference if I am using a flour that is a little bit over 12% protein ?I mean is that strong enough or do I need to add the dried gluten to make it stronger?

In Norway it's difficult to find flour with greater protein content than 10,7 %, that's why I decided to add gluten. If your flour is 12%, then you might not get any noticible differnece. I buy my powder at a well stocked supermarket.

'

I'e seen a scientific report on the effects of adding gluten in pasta production

They state that adding anything above 3% does not yield any results. Maybe the same goes for bread?  I don't feel qualified to answer your question on wether to add gluten or not to your already strong flour .-)

Q: Did you find in you baking experiments that retarding the dough helped your bread ?

Im a very inpatient person by nature, so up til now I've only tried to retard the dough once. I rather stay up all night and baby sit my dough :-) Even if it means beeing tired the entire day at work .-) I guess a retard would have been benficial for a flavoured dough (olives, tomatos etc).

Q: And the mixing part is all by hand , food processor , KA or similar?

AHhh well dont blame me for all the questions you start it!!!!

I love an active thread! .-) Keep stories and questions coming. I've learned so much after joining this fourum it's unbelievable .-)

After reading Dan's book "the handmade loaf" I've been hand mixing. However, I'm finding that during the initial mix, my hands get so sticky, that I wash 2-3 % of the dough off my fingers .-) I might go back to mixing the initial dough in my Kenwood Major.

I'm looking for some oval baskets now, and may go for some baguettes

this weekend .-)

Happy baking .-)

←

Haha I just love all this !

Thank you for all your patience answers

I have learned so much since joined as well I was just thinking about that today, I am amazed .

You know I am a very impatience persone as well , I do baby sit my dough all night like you do , and often I payed for that when was time to go to work .

But the last time I have baked I did the retardation in the fridge and I have noticed that not only my bread was much better ( with that formula of course) but the timing and sleeping routin was much better .I did the starter in the morning,in the late afternoon i did the mix , then I did the bulk fermentation with 2 fold ,about 2 and half hours or 3 something like that, then just put the dough in the fridge all night ( i did give it a kinda of chape but not too thight , still working on that part ), then in the morning with all the time I wanted after breakfast etc ( it was my weekend off thoguht ) I preheat the oven and the stone and I bake it right out of the fridge ,I think if I want to bake during the working days I have to do this because it saves me many hours of sleep .

Well I guess in a few hours my weekend starts so its all cleaning and bread making , probably will make the preferment tonight before I go to bed , will keep posted ( see if I can go buy some walnuts ).Ohh and tomorrow is friday so my brand new scale is coming wee cant wait to work finally with a real precise scale ( dont even tell you what kinda of scale I have been working with LOL ).

Thank you Glenn

Edited May 12, 2006 by Desiderio (log)

[Desiderio]

Soo , the new scale arrived , and I have two doughs proofing.I have used Jackal formula for both ( I did one double preferment ).

The I divided the preferment in two and in one mix I did the regular white form the formula , the second one I did it with 400 gr of white whole wheat flour ( I used the king arthur one )200 gr of whole wheat stone groun flour( the hungarian one had the same amount of protein as the others , pretty strong so )and 200gr of the bread flour . I also add some walnuts .

I am going to let them proof a bit and maybe half of them I will refrigerate and the other half I will bake right away .Will post the results .

[devlin]

I love questions. Im not able to answer everything, but maybe others will chip in .-)

Q: Did you use that formula to get those loaves ( the one without the sundried tomatoes)

All the loaves are basicly the same recipe with some adjustments to scale only (but all aproxemately 67% hydration). The difference between my sundried tomato- and the other loaves, was that the tomato loaf was made with a very strong starter that doubled during bulk in a couple of hours. I baked it after a short 1.5-2 hour proof.

The other loaves that you see on the picture had a real slow, low-potent  starter. I bulk fermented longer, and proofed longer without getting a double size. The result ended up the same due to better oven spring. This sourdough baking is still a bit of a mystery to me .-)

←

Can you say more about your low-potent starter and longer proof? How low is "low"? I mean as far as you're able to explain, which I understand isn't always the easiest thing on the planet when it comes to the vagaries of sourdough....

Those are very pretty loaves.

oh, and edited to ask what's the scaled weight?

Edited May 12, 2006 by devlin (log)

[glennbech]

Can you say more about your low-potent starter and longer proof? How low is "low"? I mean as far as you're able to explain, which I understand isn't always the easiest thing on the planet when it comes to the vagaries of sourdough....

Those are very pretty loaves.

oh, and edited to ask what's the scaled weight?

←

On "baking days" I usualy use a tablespoon of my refrigerated starter, and whisk in 150g of lour and 150g of water before going to work. When coming back, 10-12 hours later, I measure the increase in volume. I do this by keeping the pre-ferment in a measuring cup. 150g water/150g flour starts out as about aproxemately 3 dl.

By "low potent" starter, I mean those days where the volume only has increased from 3 to 5 dl. Somethimes the pre-ferment rises to 8-9 dl in 10-12 hours.

I guess the difference is caused by different in temperatures or the state of my refrigerated starter culture.. ?

When baking with the starter that is less potent, it seems that the dough rises slower, So I bulk ferment and proof longer. Does this make any sense ?

Hmm, as for the scaled weight.. .To you mean my bad tasting, web crumbed tomato loaf? I believe it was 816 g when I put it in and about 700 when I took it out....

I read somewhere that the loaf should have a core temp of 190c when it's finished. Im reluctant to sticking my kitchen termomenter into the middle of my loaf to measure this.

I guess I have to learn by trial and error .-) (If there is no magic formula to see when they are done that is!)

I knock on it and try to hear if it "sounds" right. I guess this will work ,when I get even more xperience .-)

Edited May 12, 2006 by glennbech (log)

[Desiderio]

I have a question as well.

Why my loaves rip open on the bottom?

It because I dont slash them dip enough? But I really have hard time to slash them when they are so wet , any suggestions?

I will post pics later on the day as soon as the first batch is out of the oven .

Thank you

[Desiderio]

Well these are the 2 loaves I made today .I have two more ( the same ) in the fridge and will be baked tomorrow.

Results not too enthusiatic but not too baqd , the wheat /walnuts bread didn t raise at all ,and the white one still doesnt seems to get the right shape , I just dont know how you would keep the shape when they are so wet and splat .

And the infamous crack on the bottom , dont know how to get rid of that problem.

Any ideas?

Edited May 13, 2006 by Desiderio (log)

[Bill44]

Desiderio, from your pics I think the following may be your problem.

It would appear that you are baking on a stone that has not had enough time to come up to oven temperature, and also I think your oven temp may be way too high.

So what is happening is that the top crust is cooking and hardening before full oven spring, and because the baking stone may be cooler the bottom of the loaf is the softest part so thats where it tears. I also think from the colour of your crust that your loaves are way overcooked, if you have done this to get the crumb cooked then this supports my theory that the oven temp is too high.

Hope I have been of help.

[glennbech]

First of all; Great post! !

Well... I just have to say that the oven spring on that first loaf is just amazing! You must be doing a lot of things right!

I think Bill44 might be right when he says that the top gets cooked first. I took special note of your picture where you hold your loaf. All the real big holes and air is at the top of the loaf.

If you take a look at my "bottom-of-the-electric-oven" loaves , all the holes and air

at the bottom;

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...8entry1192348

I had the same problem you had with your walnut bread today with a yeasted sunflower seed recipe, with almost 150g seeds to 500g flour.

I think what's happeing is that the seeds/wlnuts pierce all those lovely gluten created pockets, (especially during hard kneading!) and at the same time add weight to the douhg (more force needed to raise).

I think the trick is to handle the dough very carefully when items are added. Maybe just flip the dough over itself a few times, and never really "knead" it? does this make sense ? Anyone ?

Maybe also try with less, or more fine grained walnuts?

I'm baking tomorrow. Maybe I'll try the walnut recipe from dan lepard's book. It includes making a "walnut paste", as well as including walnuts into the dough .-)

Happy baking!

[Desiderio]

Desiderio, from your pics I think the following may be your problem.

It would appear that you are baking on a stone that has not had enough time to come up to oven temperature, and also I think your oven temp may be way too high.

So what is happening is that the top crust is cooking and hardening before full oven spring, and because the baking stone may be cooler the bottom of the loaf is the softest part so thats where it tears. I also think from the colour of your crust that your loaves are way overcooked, if you have done this to get the crumb cooked then this supports my theory that the oven temp is too high.

Hope I have been of help.

←

Ohh ok see I didnt think about the temperature be too high , it might be .

I cooked them at 460 I have gas oven and probably like you are saying I didnt give enough time to the stone to get hot.

Should I try to lower the temp and let the stone in the oven longer then?

I am getting ready to bake the second batch that was retarded in the fridge all night .I lowered the oven then and I am going to wait before I pu the bread in it ( the oven is at 440 now hope its low enough ).I have noticed that in the past when I was trying to cook bread the oven was too low that the crust didnt cooked evenly , then I realize was too low for bread ( around 400 ), will keep trying .

Thank you for you help

[Desiderio]

First of all; Great post! !

Well... I just have to say that the oven spring on that first loaf is just amazing!  You must be doing a lot of things right!

I think Bill44 might be right when he says that the top gets cooked first. I took special note of your picture where you hold your loaf. All the real big holes and air is at the top of the loaf.

If you take a look at my "bottom-of-the-electric-oven" loaves , all the holes and air

at the bottom;

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...8entry1192348

I had the same problem you had with your walnut bread today with a yeasted sunflower seed recipe, with almost 150g seeds to 500g flour.

I think what's happeing is that the seeds/wlnuts pierce all those lovely gluten created pockets, (especially during hard kneading!) and at the same time add weight to the douhg (more force needed to raise).

I think the trick is to handle the dough very carefully when items are added. Maybe just flip the dough over itself a few times, and never really "knead" it? does this make sense ? Anyone ?

Maybe also try with less, or more fine grained walnuts?

I'm baking tomorrow. Maybe I'll try the walnut recipe from dan lepard's book. It includes making a "walnut paste", as well as including walnuts into the dough .-)

Happy baking!

←

Great point there , about the holes in the top and your in the bottom ,I would probably never thoguht of that or think to look at it .

That makes sense .Thank you for pointed it out, I really appreaciate the time you guys are putting into this ,right now my reasults are still not stable so sometimes I am really exited to get a good result and then is not that good at the end and I get kinda frustrated, but this is experimenting right?

By the way your loaves are gourgeus , I need to find the way to get my loaves so areated ( spelling ).

Thank you for the advice ,will try to change few things here.Do you think I should lower the rack with the stone way to the bottom of the oven also?

Happy baking to you too

Edited May 13, 2006 by Desiderio (log)

[donyeokl]

Hi there,

I lowered the oven then and I am going to wait before I pu the bread in it ( the oven is at 440 now hope its low enough ).I have noticed that in the past when I was trying to cook bread the oven was too low that the crust didnt cooked evenly , then I realize was too low for bread ( around 400 ), will keep trying .

440F is about 230C which is fine to put your dough into. I will bake at 440F for about 10 mins or till loaf has a slight brown (with a tray of water at the bottom of the oven) then will reduce the temperature down to 380F and bake till the loaf is ready, about 30 to 40 minutes. Tap the bottom of loaf, it should sound hollow or insert a thermometer into the loaf, if the reading shows 205F (nothing less than 200F) then it should done.

Hope this helps...

Cheers...

Don

[Desiderio]

Well these are the other two loaves , same as the others but stayed one night in the fridge.I did lower the oven to 440 and I have lowered the rack at the bottom of the oven ,I also try to be more patience and I waited longer so the stone could get nice and hot.

Definatly the wheat/walnuts one does gets better oven spring after the refridgeration.They seems to be lighter in texture and weight as well ,no cracking on the bottom this time

Thank you guys ),will keep experimenting here .

Edited May 13, 2006 by Desiderio (log)

[Paul Stanley]

Desiderio, those look very nice indeed.

As far as crust colour is concerned, I think that's partly a matter of taste. I rather like a deeply coloured crust--brown not golden--on the edge of burned, especially with sourdough, because I think the bitter caramel taste goes nicely with the bread. I think a lot of commercially produced bread is definitely under-browned. (That said, I overbaked a couple today by any standards ... )

I have two questions:

1. What part does shape play in determining texture. I'm still struck by the fact that Desiderio's bread has a more open texture in the top half of the loaf than the bottom. Is one possibility that the dough is quite wet, and that the sheer weight of that dough is sort of "holding down" the bottom. I can't remember what hydration Desiderio is using, but have a recollection that it's quite high. Is the texture different/more even if you shape into, say, a baton or a baguette rather than a boule? Or as smaller boules? What difference do you get if you slightly reduce the hydration to stiffen the dough (though you would risk losing those big air-pockets which I'm guessing you want).

My unscientific hunch is that there is an effect. I think I get more total baked volume for a given weight of dough when it is shaped in smaller loaves. Of course, there are other considerations. But it may be that if you want "big" bread you need a slightly stiffer dough. Very open-textured loaves tend to be "low" shapes (think baguettes, ciabbata, focaccia ...).

2. Glennbech was complaining up thread about over-moist crumb (though it looked just fine to me). As I understand it, this is unlikely to be the result of underbaking: the starch is clearly setting, so the loaf is baked. Apparently most water is lost not in the oven but while the loaf is cooling. Moreover, even after it has cooled fully, the texture of the crumb changes over time and it becomes firmer and drier (the beginning of the process which carried to its conclusion is stale bread, but within a certain range is desirable). This is not just evaporation: it's a chemical process taking place within the structure of the loaf. I don't think you can judge the moistness fairly until the bread has had several hours to cool. Again, FWIW, my experience is that sourdough is at its peak about 12 to 24 hours after it has come out of the oven.

My own problem at the moment seems to be with inconsistent starters. Perhaps its the weather, but I'm finding my starter varies a lot in its potency from batch to batch, though I make it the same way each time (or think I do). It went really sluggish last weekend, and I managed to produce some nastyish under-risen loaves as a result when I lost patience with the wretched stuff and baked too soon. This weekend it's rocking. (I also tried Glennbech's "use the oven floor as a hearth" method with good results.) I guess the trouble with sourdough is that the price you pay for doing things "naturally" is a loss of predictability. But then I never found commercial yeast that predictable either!

[Desiderio]

Thank you Paul

The hydratation of these loaves its should be around the 65% ( jackal formula that I really like ) ,in these last one I did yesterday it was little bit higher than 65% ( I cant find Glenn conversion chart ),I wanted to try with a even wetter dough to see if I could get a bigger and open crumb .The deal is I really like the last 2 or 3 loaves I made with Jackal formula , definatly the best I ever did ,and my goal is to get a kinda of bread more similar to the one I use to eat in Italy ( here the crust usually is very dark , and I like that kinda of crust like you ).

I have a lot to learn about shaping and proofing here ,I tryed to do the two different experiment with the same dough to see if the fridge doea make a difference , and it does ,I definatly like the fridge version best.

I am afraid to do the shaping to hard bacause I dont want to loose the air pockets inside the dough ,is this possible?

Probably I need to get myself a banneton for the proofing after the shaping , so the dough will stay in shape , maybe .

Well well I have alot of bread now ,By the way the taste of both is very nice , the walnuts one is very very tasty ( the toasted walnuts made a difference ).

[glennbech]

Desiderio, those look very nice indeed.

My own problem at the moment seems to be with inconsistent starters. Perhaps its the weather, but I'm finding my starter varies a lot in its potency from batch to batch, though I make it the same way each time (or think I do). It went really sluggish last weekend, and I managed to produce some nastyish under-risen loaves as a result when I lost patience with the wretched stuff and baked too soon. This weekend it's rocking. (I also tried Glennbech's "use the oven floor as a hearth" method with good results.)  I guess the trouble with sourdough is that the price you pay for doing things "naturally" is a loss of predictability. But then I never found commercial yeast that predictable either!

←

LOL, nice to hear that others are struggeling with starter inconsistencies as well. I'm a very inpatient person, so when a dough doesn't rise fast enough, I pray for oven spring and put it in the oven, instead of waiting.... Usually ends in disaster, like here... http://www.glennbech.com/2006/04/sourdough-disaster.html

[glennbech]

Well well I have alot of bread now  ,By the way the taste of both is very nice , the walnuts one is very very tasty ( the toasted walnuts made a difference  ).

←

I baked some very successful walnut bread today as well. Sinice I came home very late last night, I had no sponge to start with this morning. I decided to go for a yeasted bread instead. So, I'll post pictures when I have sourdough walnut results .-)

(When baking with yeast, I use a trick I picked up from a Norwegian book, and create a sponge from water/flour, just like a sourdough pre-ferment. I use just 1/2 tsp. of dry yeast in the sponge, and leave it to triple in volume for 6-7 hours. (It works overnight in the fridge as well). In the dough, I add maybe 3/4 tsp. of more dry yeast and proof and bulk ferment the dough a lot longer than usual for yeasted bread. In this way the taste of yeast is reduced significantly, and the loaves rise just fine given just a bit more time!)

Back to the walnuts!

In Dan Lepard's recipe, that I tried today, he suggests making a "walnut paste" from honey, walnuts, water and butter to put into the dough as well as having walnuts in it.

I guess this is just another trick to add more advanced flavour to a bread :-) You end up with getting a very subtle walnut taste from the crumb as well as having havled walnuts... Very nice!

For my sourdough walnut breads, I'll try to roast them as well .-)

Geat baking by the way Desiderio :-) Excellent oven spring. Do you know why one loaf was darker in colour before baking ?

Edited May 15, 2006 by glennbech (log)

[Desiderio]

Thank you Glenn ,do you mean the walnut one next to the white?If is that its because it s made out of whole wheat , white whole wheat and bread flour in a small %.I like the idea of the walnut paste by the way sound yummy.

[glennbech]

Walnut bread coming up....

I tried Dan Lepard's walnut bread from the "Handmade loaf" the other day, but I do not share his passion for putting Honey in bread .-) I also wanted to try a 100% sourdough variant.

I made one Real big discovery here that alters my base process ; When making a sponge, a significant amount to the liquid vaporizes. During a period of 12 hours, my 300g sponge lost 40g of water. This means that the sponge is no longer at 100% hydarion, and that has to be calculated in when doing the final hydration calculation.

I also became a bit confused on how to do baker's percentage calculations with Leaven. Dan lepard, in his book "The handmade loaf" treats the leaven as any ingredient, and do not include the flour in the leaven in the flour total. I've done the same here.

The disadvantage of doing this, is that percentages of ingredients like the salt, is not really a percentage against total flour, but total flour excluding leaven flour.. Does this make sense ?

Can Anyone please fill me in here ? I Might have to change my baker's percentages calculator found here http://www.glennbech.com/bakerspercentage/index.html

Walnut paste

50g roasted walnuts

20g olive oil

20g syrup

10g water

I mixed these ingredients in using a mortar and pestle until it became a smooth paste. Pure meditation :-)

For the dough

260g white leaven (65%)

400g white flour Gluten and Vit C. enriched (100%)

100g Walnut paste (25%)

100g roasted walnuts (25%)

11g Salt (2,75%)

5g vitamin C (1,25%)

I mixed the leaven, water and walnut paste on one bowl, and 380g standard flour, a dash of vitamin C and 20g dried gluten powder in another. I mixed everything and combined the contents of both bowls.

Using my Kenwood Kitchen Machine I combined the inital dough, using very slow speed. I rested the dough for 30 minutes, added salt and walnuts, and mixed further on slow speed. I've decided to start using my kenwood for the initial mix from now on, as i started losing 10% of the doigh as it stuck to my arms and fingers :-)

I then did 2 some 10 second kneading / 10 second rest. And bulk fermented the dough for 3 hours, doing a flip every hour.

I'm going to shape two 500g loaves now, and maybe bake one, but definitly put the other one in the fridge for comparison. .-)

.... To be continued ... :-)

Edited May 15, 2006 by glennbech (log)