Fish Kebabs

[Fat Guy]

I've never actually made a fish kebab, but it seems pretty simple. Thus, my current plan is to make some for company this weekend because I've got every variation of vegan, vegetarian, pseudo-kosher and picky eater in the crowd and it occurs to me that it's pretty easy to vary the formula from skewer to skewer but still give everybody pretty much the same food.

So, a few questions:

-- What's the best kind of fish to use? I was thinking Chilean sea bass, even though this is a fish I never cook with. In perusing a fish store today I noticed that it comes in nice thick pieces that would lend themselves to easy cubing without much waste, and it's supposedly resistant to overcooking.

-- What's are some good marinade options? I assume you've got to marinate the kebabs in order to get the best results. In what? And for how long?

-- Cooking procedures: Should any of the vegetables be par-cooked before being placed on the skewers? Is baking or broiling the better option? (I'm limited to indoor cooking methods.) Any rough temperature or timing guidelines? I know I'll have to test for doneness, but approximately how long before serving would one typically put uncooked fish kebabs in the oven.

[Steve Plotnicki]

The best fish kebabs in the world are the Swordfish kebabs (at least they used to be) at Elias Corner. They were always succulent and had just the right tinge of marinade. They would serve them on a bed of greens. Don't know what they marinade them in though, Greek stuff.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Actually the Times had a good article in the magazine section a few weeks back on miso and mirin marinated/rubbed Chilean Sea Bass kebabs.

[bushey]

Timely thread -- I just got a request from my daughter for kebabs tonight and I was thinking of making some swordfish and some chicken kebabs. A Greek-type marinade brings to mind olive oil-lemon-garlic-oregano. I'd go heavier on the oil and oregano because a fish like swordfish can carry it. Another marinade I love for fish is olive oil, crushed garlic, white wine vinegar, and capers. Use some to marinate the fish and reserve some to use as a dressing on the fish at the table.

Favorite vegetables to use in kebabs are cubes of zucchini and summer squash and red onion wedges -- these can be interspersed with the meat but I've never had good results with tomatoes unless they're on their own skewer, because they cook so quickly.

[MartyL]

FG,

Not sure how kosher your pseudo-kosher guests are, but as far as I know, swordfish is not kosher.

kosher/non-kosher fish (kashrut.com)

[rich]

I've used Tuna and got excellent results. Charred on the outside and rare in the middle. Usually marinate for 2-3 hours in the coldest part of the frig with lemon, day-old coffee, a hint a maple syrup and as of two weeks ago some Chipotle Tobasco.

Like my veggies very crunchy so I don't par boil - I've used plum tomatoes, yellow zucchini, mushrooms, red/orange/purple/yellow bell peppers and vidalias.

[Fat Guy]

I would definitely not serve them swordfish.

Does anybody have a copy of the Times recipe for those kebabs? It sounds like a promising start, but I can't find it online.

[rich]

What makes some fish kosher and others not? Since I'm not Jewish, this is probably wrong, but I thought it meant slaughtered or produced under rabinical supervision.

[MartyL]

Rich,

Fish must have both fins and scales to be kosher.

Here is a link with more info:

Info on Kosher fish

[rich]

Rich,

Fish must have both fins and scales to be kosher.

Then if I read the list correctly, Tuna is kosher.

FG - try the tuna instead of the bass, it's great on the grill.

[Fat Guy]

What makes some fish kosher and others not? Since I'm not Jewish, this is probably wrong, but I thought it meant slaughtered or produced under rabinical supervision.

The above-mentioned link explains things well. The method of slaughter is only relevant with regard to cows, chickens, and the like. Fish are in a different category. Also, rabbinical supervision has nothing to do with whether or not something is kosher. Supervision pertains only to the question of whether you trust something to be kosher. When industrial food manufacturers produce foods they want to label kosher, they pay for rabbinical supervision in order to be able to place a stamp on the product that says it's kosher as certified by a particular organization that kosher consumers trust. Likewise, restaurants pay for a similar service. But having the supervision doesn't make the food more or less kosher.

[Fat Guy]

FG - try the tuna instead of the bass, it's great on the grill.

I'm cooking indoors, but that shouldn't change anything. My concern with tuna is that I've never procured a very good specimen from a retail fish store. I could try, though. I wonder if tuna and Chilean sea bass cook at roughly the same rate. If so I could alternate chunks; that might be interesting.

[rich]

I wonder if tuna and Chilean sea bass cook at roughly the same rate. If so I could alternate chunks; that might be interesting.

That would be very interesting. As long as the pieces are the same size, the cooking time should be the same.

I've had good luck with buying Tuna in Chinatown - no specific place, just went from store to store until I found a piece I liked.

[bushey]

MartyL - You're right about the swordfish, of course but did you ever hear anyone discuss whether or not "baby" swordfish was kosher. I remember having some frum friends who used to argue that it would be kosher, if you could find it. Something about the way the fish changes as it matures.

[MartyL]

did you ever hear anyone discuss whether or not "baby" swordfish was kosher

I'm no rabbi, but here are my 2 cents anyway:

While adult swordfish have no scales, young swordfish apparently do have scales. One might think this would make "baby" swordfish kosher, but apparently these scales are not the right kind of scales in that they cannot be removed without breaking the skin of the fish. As a result, every kashrut authority of which I am aware has considered swordfish to be non-kosher.

If you find somebody more lenient, let me know

[Fat Guy]

The Orthodox authorities consider it unkosher not only because it sheds its scales as it matures, but also because the scales themselves are not the same as the scales found on kosher fish. The same goes for sturgeon and shark. The Conservative authorities, as far as I know, accept swordfish. Here's a bit more in depth information:

http://www.giveshare.org/Health/swordfish.html

[Fat Guy]

Sorry, Marty. I cross-posted. Same idea.

[MartyL]

FG, no apology necessary, and thanks for the info re the conservative approach. With a bit of Googling, I found the attached responsa from a Conservative Rabbi:

http://www.uscj.org/scripts/uscj/pastarchi...ge.asp?msg=8562

[bushey]

Thanks for the link, Marty. Great pilpul.

[Wilfrid]

I cooked salmon kebabs recently. Marinated the salmon for an hour or so in a couple of different marinades. One was simple white wine and chopped shallotts. The other was pineapple juice with a spoonful of honey stirred in. I use a le creuset oven top grill, brushed with a little oil. I get the grill hot enough that it sizzles when you flick some water on it, then the kebabs take only two or three minutes on each side - a little longer if you want them cooked right through. Turned once, but otherwise try not to move them afte they've hit the hot surface.

vegetables schmegetables

[rich]

I cooked salmon kebabs recently.

Tried salmon twice - it fell apart both times. Any advice?

[Fat Guy]

Don't use canned salmon.

[rich]

Don't use canned salmon.         

Now you tell me. Where were you two months ago??????

[bushey]

Rich -- did you use salmon steaks or fillets? I'd imagine that the fillets would fall apart much more easily.

[rich]

Rich -- did you use salmon steaks or fillets? I'd imagine that the fillets would fall apart much more easily.

I used fillets about 1 1/2 inch thick. If I use steaks, wouldn't they break up as I cut from the bones?