Portuguese Sweet Bread from BBA

[tino27]

I decided to make the Portuguese Sweet Bread recipe from BBA and followed the directions (although I did convert from active dry yeast to instant -- don't worry, I didn't do a direct substitution). I made the starter and after about 70 minutes it looked quite lovely. I've made starters before (usually poolishes) and I can definitely tell an active starter.

At that point I creamed the butter, shortening, dry milk, sugar, and salt until everything looked uniform (I used my KitchenAid for this). I then added the eggs, oil extracts, the starter, and all of the flour called for in the recipe. I measured out the water and had it at the ready. I then started the KA on low with the dough hook, but the air today is so humid that not only did I not have to add any of the reserved water, I actually had to add about 1/4 cup more flour for the dough to come together into a soft ball. I then needed on speed 2 on my KA for 11 minutes (BBA called for between 10-12 using a stand mixer). The dough felt quite soft and there was definite gluten development. I then left it in my workbowl and covered it with plastic. It is now two hours later and not one sign of rise has happened. I know the yeast was active in the starter when I added it.

I understand that rich doughs with lots of sugar and fat take longer to form gluten. Could the 11 minutes on the stand mixer have been too much?

Any thoughts? BTW, the ambient air temperature is around 80 deg with about 86 percent relative humidity. All ingredients were room temperature before being added to the bowl.

Thanks!

[chefpeon]

I understand that rich doughs with lots of sugar and fat take longer to form gluten. Could the 11 minutes on the stand mixer have been too much?

If your dough has come together into a ball, and feels somewhat elastic, you have not overdeveloped the dough. It's pretty hard to overdevelop a dough, and 11 mins on a KA is nowhere near overdeveloping. Besides that's not your problem.

Your problem is that you have no problem. You need to wait. The Portuguese Sweet Bread recipe that I am familiar with calls for an overnight rise....so you're just barely into it with 2 hours. If your dough is as sweet and rich as my dough and you've used a starter.....it's gonna take a LOOONG time. Sit tight. It'll be fine.

[tino27]

Ironically, not knowing what to do with the dough, I figured I'd just put it in the fridge and deal with it tomorrow night -- odd that this is exactly what you suggested!!

As you suggest, I'll have faith. I will say that by the time I put it into the fridge (after about 2 1/2 hours sitting on the counter), it had risen just slightly.

Thanks for the tip chefpeon. I'll report back to this thread with what I find out tomorrow.

[cognitivefun]

What a coincidence...funny thing.

I've made this recipe 3 or 4 times. And tonight I made it again. It is very, very tasty. One of my favorite enriched breads. The taste really grows on you.

As usual, I tried to use the food processor but it stalled. I should have done it in two halves but I got lazy.

And the dough was much wetter than normal and the Cuisinart couldn't handle it. So I scraped it into the Viking mixer and used the dough hook. And I had to add flour.

Then I put it in the basement for the bulk rise, about 68 - 70F. I expect it to take 5 or 6 hours there.

And indeed, several hours later, nothing much has happened rise-wise. The dough seems a bit denser than normal. Perhaps I added too much flour. Perhaps it heated up too much during the machine kneading.

I put it in the fridge and am going to bed. Will see how it is tomorrow. Always interesting lessons learned.

[cognitivefun]

I threw mine away today and started a new batch which is going into the oven shortly.

I have had this formula fail, this is the second time. I don't know why, really.

[tino27]

Progress so far ...

I put the dough, covered with plastic wrap in the fridge last night. This morning when I looked, it looked slightly bigger (maybe I was waxing optomistic ). Anyway, I put it on the counter when I left for work. When I returned about 10 hours later, SUCCESS!! It had finally risen. I then proceeded to portion the dough, form my boules, and placed them in individual pie tins. They've now been resting on the counter for about 90 minutes and are proofing, albeit slowly. I'm hoping given another 90 minutes, they'll be ready for the oven.

I'll post my final results and pics when everything is said and done.

[chefpeon]

Yay!!!!

Once again, patience pays off!

Can't wait to see your pics......!

[tino27]

OK, here are the results.

Total 1st rise time: 10 hours

Total proof time: 4 1/2 hours

Total bake time: 40 minutes

I went by the internal temperature of 190 deg F as suggested in the BBA. However, Reinhart's suggested baking time of 50-60 minutes was pretty far off. Then again, so were his estimated rising times of 2-3 hours.

And now ... PICTURES!

30 minutes after shaping into boules

4 1/2 hours after shaping, pre-egg wash

Right out of the oven

Crust & crumb

Let me just say that the taste and smell of this bread is SIMPLY AMAZING. I almost polished off 3/4 of a loaf this morning before giving the other two loaves to some very lucky people. It was definitely worth all the sweating over.

Thanks again to Chefpeon for your invaluable advice. This recipe is definitely going in the "Make Again" pile.

Edited August 2, 2006 by tino27 (log)

[shacke]

Beautiful bread. I like that recipe myself. FYI - if you buy osmotolerant yeast like SAF gold , it will rise faster in an enriched environment. The regular yeasties get slowed down by all that good stuff in there.

Evan

[tino27]

Beautiful bread.  I like that recipe myself.  FYI - if you buy osmotolerant yeast like SAF gold , it will rise faster in an enriched environment.  The regular yeasties get slowed down by all that good stuff in there.

Evan

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Thanks for the compliment and the suggestion. How much time will using this particular yeast cut off of the rising/proofing times? 50%?

[shacke]

Beautiful bread.  I like that recipe myself.  FYI - if you buy osmotolerant yeast like SAF gold , it will rise faster in an enriched environment.  The regular yeasties get slowed down by all that good stuff in there.

Evan

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Thanks for the compliment and the suggestion. How much time will using this particular yeast cut off of the rising/proofing times? 50%?

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I am not sure exactly what quantitative impact it will have other than it does. I use OT yeast with holiday breads like pandoro and pannetone. I used regular instant for those once and noticed a considerable slowdown. If you think you will make it again a few times, it may be worth buying a bag and letting us know the difference. It should last a year or so in the freezer.

Evan

[jsmeeker]

That looks great!! I have a copy of BBA, and was eyeing that Portuguese Sweet Bread. I haven't read the recipe on it, but what is the puropose of the pie tins? is it to help ensure it maintains shape while proofing after shaping? In your pictures, the dough never really touches the sides of the tins.

I have regular SAF Instant yeast. Not sure if I want to mail order the Gold variant. Guess I'll have to see how well the normal stuff works.

[tino27]

For some reason, I thought I remember reading someplace that the pie tins were more traditional of the Hawaiin sweet bread (which I believe the Hawaiin is based off the Portuguese) and figured I've give them a try. I will say this though, from a purely functional point of view, they were very easy to get in and out of the oven. I didn't have to worry at all about accidentally deflating the proved dough.

You're right that the dough never touched the sides of the tins. Reinhart suggests letting them proof until they reach the sides of the tin. Perhaps that was me being very tired at 12:30 am and just wanting to get them in the oven. I used 9" pie tins. I guess if I had used 8", they would've touched the side. I will say this, I compared the proved loaves to a whole wheat boule (the same amount of dough) I had made on Sunday and the sizes were about the same. I didn't expect there to be any ovenspring, but after the first 10 minutes I took a peek and there was a little bit.

I normally use Fleishmann's Instant Yeast in the 1 lb. bags from my local BJ's/Sam's Club. It normally gives me a good rise on leaner doughs in about 75-90 minutes. But with this rich dough, well, you saw the rising times. Maybe Reinhart is using the SAF Gold (or something comparable) because all of my timings were way different than the book.

Then again, now that I know the timings with the yeast that I have, I can make the bread fit into my schedule.

[shacke]

I normally use Fleishmann's Instant Yeast in the 1 lb. bags from my local BJ's/Sam's Club. It normally gives me a good rise on leaner doughs in about 75-90 minutes. But with this rich dough, well, you saw the rising times. Maybe Reinhart is using the SAF Gold (or something comparable) because all of my timings were way different than the book.

Then again, now that I know the timings with the yeast that I have, I can make the bread fit into my schedule. 

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Clarfiying.... The osmotolerant yeast is not necessary, just works faster. I don't recall if BBA uses OT yeast and I can't offhand recall any recipe in there that specifically calls for it. The other issue of rising time differences from the book may be temperature. If you dough is cooler, and you room temp as well, expect a longer rise time. It's not a problem - it's generally a good thing to take longer as long as your schedule permits.

[Gul_Dekar]

You're right that the dough never touched the sides of the tins.  Reinhart suggests letting them proof until they reach the sides of the tin. Perhaps that was me being very tired at 12:30 am and just wanting to get them in the oven. I used 9" pie tins. I guess if I had used 8", they would've touched the side. I will say this, I compared the proved loaves to a whole wheat boule (the same amount of dough) I had made on Sunday and the sizes were about the same. I didn't expect there to be any ovenspring, but after the first 10 minutes I took a peek and there was a little bit.

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Hi, I made this bread a couple of times too and it's been a hit every time! I noticed you separated the dough into 3 loaves so maybe that's why they dont reach the side of the pie pan? I usually just make them into 2 and they do reach the sides and even bake up with the imprints of the sides of the pie pan on the bottom edge of the loaves. Then again, if you already increased the amount of dough so you could have 3 loaves I'm probably completely off-base.

[cognitivefun]

I have had this bread rise faster but only when I've used a really warm place, in order to rush, such as the oven that was preheated for a few minutes (bad idea in general but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.)

Otherwise I agree, the rise times in BBA are on the very low side.

[tino27]

Hi, I made this bread a couple of times too and it's been a hit every time! I noticed you separated the dough into 3 loaves so maybe that's why they dont reach the side of the pie pan? I usually just make them into 2 and they do reach the sides and even bake up with the imprints of the sides of the pie pan on the bottom edge of the loaves. Then again, if you already increased the amount of dough so you could have 3 loaves I'm probably completely off-base. 

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Yep, that's exactly what I did. The original recipe made 2 1 pound loaves. I increased everything by 50 percent so that it would make 3 loaves. The only reason I did it was that I can fit 3 pie tins in my oven at the same time. Hey, why have only 2 when you can have 3 for the same amount of time?

Do you use 8" or 9" pie tins?