Uncooking

[offcentre]

Not content with going from a fun-lovin lass to vegetarian to vegan in the space of 6 weeks, my (soon-to-be-ex-if-she-carries-on-like-this) partner has now gone raw.

God help me.

In order to counter the endless stream of mindless raw food propaganda she spouts at me - gleaned from a couple of books she has managed to read written by dope smoking, dreadlock-sporting, skinny little freaks with names like shazzie - does anyone have any actual evidence as to the benefits or (more hopefully) drawbacks of said boring-as-shit diet.

I quite like her so am hoping this will soon be forgotten and we can go back to a normal diet of pork fat and blood sausage.

thanks.

Edited July 20, 2006 by offcentre (log)

[Lumas]

Your post made me laugh. I have been to a few raw restaurants in NYC and I have even made a few raw desserts. First, the food taste horrible. I have tryed raw pizza, which is a mixture of ground nuts and flax seeds for the crust and ground macadamia nuts with almond milk for the cheese. You can imagine how that must taste. Raw food relies heavily on nuts and spices to make it taste somewhat good. I doubt it is even healthy to eat the amount of nuts (cups) that their recipes call for.

On the other hand, the desserts aren't all that bad. I have been to pure food and wine in the city and had a chocolate torte and it was very good. I think 15 bucks for a slice that was half the size of a normal slice of cake.

Everyone has conflicting opinions on health. People see the raw food diet as an easy way to lose weight. Vegetables, fruits, and nuts are the most nutrious food sources in the world. But does that make eating a diet based soley on nuts, fruits, and vegetables actually healthy? I really feel people need protein in their diets. Nuts alone do not have enough protein unless you eat enormous amounts. A low protein diet will make you sick. I know from experience. Good luck on trying to convert your girl friend back to eating meat again. After a few weeks, I think she will become incredibly bored with the meals she will eat, and she will convert back.

Edited July 20, 2006 by Lumas (log)

[BryanZ]

While I'm not sure how much this post has to do with cooking, I couldn't agree more, especially on the pork fat part. I've done the vegetarian and vegan for a few weeks just to see how it is. I like my meat.

[pounce]

Quote from a Meat Loaf song...

Anything for love

Oh, I would do anything for love

I would do anything for love, but I won't do that

No, I won't do that

Try this link:

The Seduction of Simplistic Raw Vegan Dogma

Edited July 20, 2006 by pounce (log)

[Badiane]

I'm not trying to make fun of your partner, nor am I being facetious when I say this...but if she has swung to that kind of extreme in such a short space of time, she may be experiencing a mental health issue that she is unaware of and it is entirely possible that she requires medical intervention before she hurts herself.

There are a host of websites out there that could probably provide you with a counterquote to everything she says...Or hey, invite her to dinner, serve yourself a fabulous meal and hand her a piece of celery and a glass of squashed tomatoes. YUM! A raw food vegan. Hmmm. The reality of that is probably even worse than it sounds. Good luck!

[Rachel Perlow]

There are definitely foods that benefit from cooking to improve their digestibility, that is your body is able to access more of their nutrients because cooking breaks down cell walls. I can't think of specific examples off-hand, but check out Nina Planck's book, Real Food. She cites many reasons why vegan and raw food diets can be detrimental to health. Here's a link to some eGullet threads in reference to same.

Some raw foodists do eat flesh, usually fish, like sashimi. But if she went vegan then raw, she probably won't.

My opinion? To get her to read the book try this, "hey this book is by the woman who runs Real Food Greenmarkets, I thought you might like to read it." Then cook some bacon. Many a vegetarian has been lured by bacon. :evil grin:

[redglass]

How about "humans have incisors for a reason"?

And who knows, within 6 weeks, she may swing back entirely in the other direction.

Without knowing anything about your partner, chances are within two weeks, she will feel like crap and be forced to at least eat some quinoa.

In the meantime, you could make it (maybe? probably not) more bearable for you by checking out This book to try some recipes from. Charlie Trotter has lost his chef's card for basically bringing down foie gras in Chicago, but of the raw food cookbooks out there, this one is probably better than most.

[Toliver]

There are definitely foods that benefit from cooking to improve their digestibility, that is your body is able to access more of their nutrients because cooking breaks down cell walls....

←

Here is a quote, in regards to Rachel's point, from a Barnes and Noble interview with Dr. Andrew Weil:

B&N.com: What about raw versus cooked vegetables?

AW: It's good to have a mix. I don't think an all-raw diet is good. Many vegetables contain toxins that are easily destroyed by cooking. And some nutrients become more available to the body in cooked form, like the carotene pigments of carrots and dark leafy greens. These pigments are oil soluble, meaning they need fats to get transported across the walls of the gut.

[Grub]

Jebus. Pardon me, but damn, that's messed up -- I'm with Badiane on that one.

Incidentally, does this raw food thing include meat, then?

Or is it like Lisa Simpson's hero, the level six vegan, who doesn't eat anything that casts a shadow?

[johnsmith45678]

Hahahaha RAW meat! I'll have to ask next time I see some raw food folks. Carpaccho! Steak Tartare!

I've tried raw food recipes several times and thought they were pretty good. I've made several of Juliani's recipes in his book Raw and liked those. I love vegetables, nuts, and other stuff they use. But I also like cooked food (the Maillard reaction, mmmmm...). And meat. And, I dunno, some of those raw food people don't have the most healthy look to them.

[petite tête de chou]

Not content with going from a fun-lovin lass to vegetarian to vegan in the space of 6 weeks, my (soon-to-be-ex-if-she-carries-on-like-this) partner has now gone raw.

God help me.

In order to counter the endless stream of mindless raw food propaganda she spouts at me - gleaned from a couple of books she has managed to read written by dope smoking, dreadlock-sporting, skinny little freaks with names like shazzie - does anyone have any actual evidence as to the benefits or (more hopefully) drawbacks of said boring-as-shit diet.

I quite like her so am hoping this will soon be forgotten and we can go back to a normal diet of pork fat and blood sausage.

thanks.

←

Well, I think that she is simply experimenting with different lifestyles/outlooks/foods etc. Instead of debating wether or not you're going to break up with her because of it why not join in? You certainly don't have to whole-heartedly embrace the vegan/raw lifestyle but most of the food is imaginative, fresh, colorful and healthy. Interest her and yourself in a variety of pro and con books on the subject. Prepare your meals together. Have fun with it! Continue to eat your meat but include yourself in her endeavors too. I mean, she ate meat and cooked foods for how long before she decided to change her diet? And really, most folks who try out the vegan and/or raw foods lifestyle rarely do it for the duration of their lives. No big deal.

Ah yes, one other thing. The stereotypes you mentioned are just that. Stereotypes. When I was a vegan I was *not* a skinny, dredlocked (and what's wrong with dredlocks anyway?), drug using "freak." Nor were the majority of my vegetarian/vegan/raw foods friends.

[Patrick S]

Ah yes, one other thing. The stereotypes you mentioned are just that. Stereotypes. When I was a vegan I was *not* a skinny, dredlocked (and what's wrong with dredlocks anyway?), drug using "freak."

←

And most drug-loving, dredlocked freaks aren't vegans, much less raw food devotees.

[Arianna]

I have just one thing to say about raw foods- Smoothies sure are delicious in this hot weather. You might as well make a compromise and eat tons of smoothies all the time.

Yum.

[glennbech]

Some people have the same relationships to diet, as some to religion. They just chose forget, or chose ignore the things that they don't like, and make a lot of stuff up to better suit their needs.

following a strict Raw diet and taking out the meat sounds a bit dangerous. If she's an expert in human nutrition, and know what she's doing Im sure she'll be okay though.

I'm no expert myself, but about 250 grams of kidney beans for exmple, should alone cover the protein need for a medium build female. (0,75 grams per kilo of body mass a rule of thumb for protein intake)

It shouldn't be too diffuclt for her to get all the nutrients she needs without boiling or frying meat :-) ... If she knows what she's doing that is...

Edited July 21, 2006 by glennbech (log)

[dockhl]

Some people have the same relationships to diet, as some to religion. They just chose forget, or chose ignore the things that they don't like, and make a lot of stuff up to better suit their needs.

following a strict Raw diet and taking out the meat sounds a bit dangerous. If she's an expert in human nutrition, and know what she's doing Im sure she'll be okay though.

I'm no expert myself, but about 250 grams of kidney beans for exmple, should alone cover the protein need for a medium build female. (0,75 grams per kilo of body mass a rule of thumb for protein intake)

It shouldn't be too diffuclt for her to get all the nutrients she needs without boiling or frying meat :-) ... If she knows what she's doing that is...

←

Maybe I amconfused on the concept, but don't those kidney beans need to be eaten...raw? I think they sprout them and eat them but aren't kidney beans toxic when raw?

[glennbech]

Ouch, LOL!

Incidents of food poisoning have been reported associated with the consumption of raw or undercooked red kidney beans.

My mistake completely, As the meat eater and food fryer I am, I didn't

think of the fact that beans are actually cooked before consumption .-)

*big big blush*

Wow.... As I've understood Beans are one of the major protein sources for vegans/vegetarians. Raw vegan/vegeterian can't possibly be healthy!?

Edited July 21, 2006 by glennbech (log)

[dockhl]

Ouch, LOL!

Incidents of food poisoning have been reported associated with the consumption of raw or undercooked red kidney beans.

My mistake completely, As the meat eater and food fryer I am, I didn't

think of the fact that beans are actually cooked before consumption .-)

*big big blush*

Wow.... As I've understood Beans are one of the major protein sources for vegans/vegetarians. Raw vegan/vegeterian can't possibly be healthy!?

←

No kidding. My daughter was vegetarian from the time she was five until she was 18, in a very carnivorous family. She ate a lot of peanut butter, cheese and yogurt. It wasn't easy. (On occasion WAS seduced by bacon.but not often !)

[offcentre]

yes, beans are sprouted. I'll steer her away from kidney beans then! Chickpeas, adzuki beans, lentils are all very nice sprouted though. No adverse affects from these.....yet.

[Dave Weinstein]

Raw milk cheeses.

Air cured meats.

They are all part of a "raw" diet.

[slkinsey]

Have a look here: http://beyondveg.com/cat/frank-talk/index.shtml

[tupac17616]

No kidding. My daughter was vegetarian from the time she was five until she was 18, in a very carnivorous family.

This is interesting to me. How does one get started as a vegetarian at such a young age? How do you think this affected her development? How do you feel is has shaped her view of food now?

[Arianna]

No kidding. My daughter was vegetarian from the time she was five until she was 18, in a very carnivorous family.

This is interesting to me. How does one get started as a vegetarian at such a young age? How do you think this affected her development? How do you feel is has shaped her view of food now?

←

I've been a vegetarian since I was seven (although recently I have decided to start eating fish again.

I became a vegetarian because the regular food was really gross at my summer camp and if you decided to be vegetarian you recieved better foor, but you had to stick with it the whole summer.

When I got back, I decided to stick with it. It was never a real issue in my family (no one complained about having to make two seperate meals or anything). Meat was never incorporated into the dish, it was always cooked and added later. Meat was never the center of our diets anyhow. My parents made sure I got enough protein by making a lot of dishes with beans (they would also eat meat) and I learned how to scramble eggs and make grilled cheese at that age. I was fine and healthy. It also helped that no one in my house is that picky of an eater. My family, when asked what they want to eat, will say, "I don't care, whatever you want." Having someone with a preference made the decision of what to eat easier.

Later, as I got a little older and could be trusted with the stove and whatnot, I started preparing everyone's meals. I liked cooking the most, and since I came home at 3 and my parents got home around six or seven, it was easier for me to make dinner and snacks for the hungry younger sibling and have everything prepared for them when they get home. We had a vegetarian household from then on, for about five years when I did all the cooking.

Letting young people make their own food decisions is most certainly empowering and vegetarianism is not a huge deal, nutrition-wise.

[Milagai]

My family is vegetarian, and kids raised that way since infancy,

and all are flourishing health-wise.

It'll be interesting to see if kids' idea of teenage rebellion

is a cheeseburger

But right now there's no problem with varied and yummy food.

I was lucky to be raised in a culture that's got probably

the world's best vegetarian menu, though I was not raised

a vegetarian myself. Making the switch was pretty painless.

It's more the spices that make my food rather than the

main ingredient anyway.....

My 9 yo DD accidentally took a bite of shrimp cracker,

thinking it was a regular papad and the aghast look on her

face when the fish staink hit her palate was priceless.

Milagai

[maggiethecat]

Check out Nina Planck's book, Real Food. She cites many reasons why vegan and raw food diets can be detrimental to health. Here's a link to some eGullet threads in reference to same.

I can't say better than Rachel did. Buy your girl this book, please. I contains good science. Your sweetie is courting health problems.

[dockhl]

No kidding. My daughter was vegetarian from the time she was five until she was 18, in a very carnivorous family.

This is interesting to me. How does one get started as a vegetarian at such a young age? How do you think this affected her development? How do you feel is has shaped her view of food now?

←

Well, we were sitting in a McDonalds eating fish sandwiches and she asked if the fish "were already dead".............no.......

The conversation progressed to "What are hamburgers made of? Were they already dead?" It was her first conscious realization of where food comes from. The conversation then ensued about vegetarians and what they ate.

To make a long story short, she made a moral decision to be a vegetarian, completely supported by me. Interesting because she LIKED meat. She went off to college and started eating VERY CLEAN chicken (it cannot look like what it is, is the rule. No bones, skin, etc.........NEVER a blood vessel! ) She is 21 and is a serious foodie and eats most everything including lamb, beef and poultry. Not real fond of pork (had to dissect a foetal pig in high school ) LOVES to cook~and is very good at it.

One thing I find is that her appreciation of veggies is much greater than I think it would have been. She uses meat more as an accent. Who knows. She is thin and surfs a lot so maybe it is a body thing..?

I think she may, in fact, be healthier because of those vegetarian years............