Foods of NY that all come from the same place

[sammy]

Aven when you're talking about, say, Atlantic salmon, one side of salmon is not equal to every other side of salmon.  So I suppose it's possible that there are gradations of smoked salmon within a given style that businesses can buy from Acme.  It's possible, for example, that Zabar's could be paying more for fattier salmon from Acme compared to Fairway.

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That was my point above that FG disgreed with.

[Fat Guy]

That makes intuitive sense, though the article Todd points to seems to say that there are not gradations -- that the point of farming the stuff is to make every side as close to identical as possible -- and the article by the Lee brothers speaks of "the same salmon" pretty emphatically. So, who knows? One thing I can say from experience examining a few industrial food processors and distributors is that at the production end uniformity is the goal whereas the salespeople who handle the individual accounts often imply (I'm trying to use a nice word) that a given client is getting something better or unique. You know, like saying "I'll pick the nicest ones for you, just like you like them" to the client and then saying "Hey, Louie, throw twenty more on the truck!"

[slkinsey]

Yea, that's my sense as well. If there are gradations that are sold at different costs, then I have a hard time understanding why they wouldn't have those gradations listed in their pricing guide.

I don't really know enough about farmed salmon to have an understanding of whether there could be significant differences between two salmons of the same size and weight from the same farm. But if this is possible, I have to assume that Acme has certain specifications for the salmon they are purchasing -- which would tend to result in uniformity.

[phaelon56]

since it takes considerably more skill to correctly slice Salmon to order.

With the passing of the old guard at places like Zabar's, a lot of this isn't being done as well as it used to there, either. Or maybe I'm just getting old and crotchety...

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Or perhaps both statements are true

On to another food that seems to be the same at so many places in NYC. It's the cheese that a large majority of pizza places use on their pies. I'm not referring to the better quality places such as Grimaldi's, Lombardi's, Totonno's, John's et al but rather to the ubiquitous slice joints. My suspicion is that they're using a cheese blend rather than straight whole milk, low fat or skim mozzarella.

The blend is discussed here in the eGullet Q & A with Peter Rinehart

It has, for my tastes, a weird melting pattern and a taste that I can tolerate but don't really care for.

[alanamoana]

agata and valentina is guilty of the cheese straw repackaging...and i believe quite a bit of their "fresh" pastas are repackaged as well. i'm sure other of their products are treated the same way.

[Todd36]

Here's Acme's product list:

Todd, I know that in the refrigerator cases of these places you can find many brands of smoked salmon. I think what we're talking about here, and certainly what the article is talking about, are the sides of smoked salmon in the deli/fish case that are sliced to order. Given the number of styles Acme makes, it's certainly possible most or all of them come from Acme. It's also possible they come from elsewhere. I do wonder, however, how many operations are shipping unsliced sides for deli/fish counter presentation -- that's got to be a niche market. I mean, if you go to the really big sellers like Costco you're not going to see anything sliced to order.

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I meant the Fairway custom sliced case; they have at least a dozen different kinds on a typical day. Zabar's selection is significantly smaller, perhaps 4-5 kinds. Fairway often has fish in the original wrapper in that case.

I would suspect that even within farmed fish, there is variation in qualtity, and smoked fish suppliers know that, and can send different fish to different people. If you buy raw farmed salmon at Fairway or Citerallia, and compare it to your standard supermarkt stuff, it's clear to me its different fish. The Fairway/Citerilla fish is clearly fattier, this is not a handling or freshness question.

[Fat Guy]

I would suspect that even within farmed fish, there is variation in qualtity, and smoked fish suppliers know that, and can send different fish to different people.

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The Times pieces, taken together, are saying there is little variation and that they don't get different fish.

[Todd36]

I would suspect that even within farmed fish, there is variation in qualtity, and smoked fish suppliers know that, and can send different fish to different people.

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The Times pieces, taken together, are saying there is little variation and that they don't get different fish.

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The smoked Tuna loin behind the "we slice it for you" counter tonight at Fairway was from Banner, that was clear from the package. Couldn't see the labels on the smoked salmon. The pre-pack smoked salmon at Fairway was all from Acme.

I don't believe that farmed salmon is all similar in qualitity. Since people seem to write academic papers on differernces in farmed salmon quality, I strongly suspect that it does vary in quality.

http://www.onefish.org/servlet/CDSServlet?...W50cyYzNz1pbmZv

People also seem to research differences in smoked salmon.

http://www.onefish.org/servlet/CDSServlet?...aW5mbw~~#koinfo

The way the salomon is killed impacts the qualtity of the smoked product.

http://www.nafc.ac.uk/fdn/fdn1ikijime.pdf

Produces of farmed salomon seem to think it varies in qualtity.

http://www.scottishsalmon.co.uk/dlDocs/consumer.pdf

There are are numerous service marks out there.

Below is a producer's web site where they state that "90% of Salmon are superior grade and smoker quality"

http://www.salmac.co.uk/eng/premium_farmed...rmed_salmon.php

My guess is that (1) Acme probably sells smoked fish to almost everyone. (2) not everything sold at all the major retail places is from Acme. (3) even within a large supplier such as Acme, there are different grades.

[Todd36]

And why do Polly-O curds come in 43-pound boxes? Not 40, not 45, not even 44 (which is near as damn to 20kg), but 43?

That apart, I'm not too bothered by this, because much of the pleasure of eating fresh mozzarella is preserved with a ball freshly formed from curd, whether Polly-O's or anyone else's.

I believe that many of the cheese straws repackaged or sold in bulk around town come from the company known as John Wm Macy, which also sells in their own packaging. Again, a good product.

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Went by Joe's Dairy this afternoon. Many boxes of curds, 45 pounds, not from Polly-O. Couln't quite catch the supplier's name. It was an Italian family name.

[Fat Guy]

The point isn't that all farmed salmon in the universe is identical. The point is that Acme is telling the New York Times that the farmed salmon Acme uses is a uniform product and that the fish Acme sells to the various retailers is "the same fish."

[Todd36]

The point isn't that all farmed salmon in the universe is identical. The point is that Acme is telling the New York Times that the farmed salmon Acme uses is a uniform product and that the fish Acme sells to the various retailers is "the same fish."

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Acme's own website contains the following statement:"We also produce private label products for selected customers." Again, I strongly suspect that they produce different grades of fish. They have at least two brands themselves, Blue Hill Bay is described on their web site as all natural.

The only way to settle this is for someone who knows what Zarar's et al actual sells chimes in.

[Todd36]

I did some reseach today.

All of the products behind the slice to order counter at the West 66th Street Balduchi's are clearly marked as being from Acme or Blue Hill Bay (an Acme brand).

The slice to order Nova at the West 74th Street Citarella is clearly marked as being from Service Smoked Fish Corp. Their web site, such as it is, is http://www.servicesmokedfish.com/. They were also selling slice to order products from Banner and other producers. Pre-pack was from Acme.

Zabar's counterperson told me that their source of Nova varies, although its mostly from Acme. Their Kippered Salmon was from Banner. He said they use at least 7 different sources for smoked fish. Their pre-pack nova does not say who makes it, but it lists the same plant number as Fairway brand pre-pack nova, which says it is made by Acme.

The West 74th Street Fairway wouldn't say where the nova is coming from. It's big, big fish though, bigger than what Zabar's is selling. I did see smoked salmon in the slice to order counter at Fairway that was clearly marked as coming from Chenonceaux, which is AKA Portier. The Nova was in a similar package, making me suspect the Nova is from there. Their own pre-pack is from Acme, they sell pre-pack from Portier and others as well.

My conclusions are that everyone sells pre-pack from Acme. Citerella is clearing not selling Acme nova sliced to order. I suspect that neither is Fairway. It is also clear that everyone who has a large variety of selection is selling salmon from several suppliers. The guy at Zarbar's says the supplier of Nova does vary. I think the basic proposition behind this thread not apply to smoked Salmon.