One night in Paris - help

[Guest snowstorm]

This spring our family will have one evening in Paris.  We were looking for a upbeat, lively, memorable dining experience to bring our college aged daughter.  After reading your many posts, I was wondering whether any of these restaurants would fit our expectations

      1) La Regalade

      2) Epi Dupin

      3) L'Astrance

      4) La Maree

Any other suggestions would be appreciated

Thank you

[Niall]

I haven't been there yet.. but we feel an extreme need to go to Ducasse while we are in Paris, and have booked lunch there..

[mogsob]

Snowstorm, your list captures some of the best value restaurants in Paris -- you should be pleased with any of them.  Of your list, I would go to Epi Dupin, which is a personal favorite, but I think it is L'Astrance with the Michelin star.

However, if I had one night in Paris and wanted to take back a really special experience (going beyond just food here), I would go to one of the following:

1.  D'Chex Eux (2 av. de Lowendal).  A classic southwestern bistro that is a little off the tourist path in the 7th.  It is in my experience the friendliest, warmest restaurant in Paris.  The food is hearty (and keeps on coming) and the wine list is very good.  The last time there (January 2002) I had wonderful venison and a Vieux Telegraph 1998 -- a memorable meal that lasted 3 1/2 hours.

2.  Le Dome.  One of the most famous fish restaurants in Paris, and Patricia Wells' choice for top sole meuniere (I agree).  Everything here gleams and sparkles (not just the fish!).  Another taste of old Paris.

[Bux]

Choosing a restaurant is always a subjective decision and we can only offer our own prejudices along with our objectivity. I don't know la Maree and have not eaten at l'Epi Dupin, (but only because I couldn't get in) although I've walked by it and examined the menu. La Regalade is one of my favorite restaurants in Paris, but the food is not on a par with l'Astrance. There is no question in my mind that l'Astrance has the best, in terms of interesting, creative and thoughtful, food and offers the best value in terms of everything that goes into a successful evening in a restaurant unless one needs super luxurious trappings and an expensive wine cellar. La Maree will be more elegant and offer a greater selection of seafood. You should go to l'Astrance with the idea of taking the surprise tasting menu. L'Astrance will offer a nice relaxed and comfortable setting in a simple but very sophisiticated contemporary setting. La Maree may be more comfortable. L'Epi Dupin is more of a neighborhood restaurant and La Regalade will be the noisiest and most casual environment. The food is hearty, rustic, somewhat old fashioned and wonderful, but the atmosphere, although upbeat. is not condusive to lingering.

One evening Paris is so frustrating. All of those restaurants will offer at least part of what you are looking for and perhaps anyone of them will satisfy as well as any other in Paris. Once again I fall back on the subjective aspect. L'Astrance, for instance, will also be the most demanding on your palate and while I recommend it the highest, I suspect some people could find it intimidating. The owner/manager/captain/waiter is fond of asking guests to guess the surprise wine or the ingredients in a dish. He's not judging, but it's a game that may appeal to certain diners but make others uncomfortable. La Regalade, a favorite of mine was totally unappreciated when a friend recommended it to diners she thought would appreciate it, as they found it too rustic or coarse.

So its difficult to make a recommendation even with some knowledge of the person's knowledge and taste. I know I'll think of that table at la Regalade unhappy with their food, the next time I can't get a reservation there. Recommending the wrong place can end up being a disservice not ony to the asker, but those denied a reservation because the restaurant in full. La Maree seems to be at the high end (maybe $100 including wine, tax and service) of your list and l'Epi Dupin and la Regalade are a third the price. I assume price is not an object at this range.

I wouldn't have recommended le Dome, but why not. It may be most typical, or at least traditional, as dining in Paris begins to defy categorization as "typical" these days. I've enjoyed their less expensive bistro and have very much enjoyed sitting on the terasse of the cafe eating oysters in season. We took our daughter there for oysters for a sense of Paris and the neighborhood we knew from our past, when she was in college. A question that always occurs to me is "where do you eat out at home and where would you eat out in NY, San Francisco, Chicago, etc.?"

Ducasse is a place that appeals to those who suffer from etreme needs or needs of the extreme. I say that with all due respect to those who have these needs. We are those people. I only wish that sort of need was satisfied by achieving one's goal. What really happens is that the bar of expectation of dining out is raised and one becomes a junkie addicted to fine dining. I'm not sure if I need a smiley or sad face here.

[Lesley C]

L'Epi Dupin is a bit disappointing. It's very small, the chef is incredibly nice, and the atmosphere is electric but the food is a bit dull by Paris standards (two of our dishes featured filo dough -- need I say more). Also, it's pretty tough to get a reservation and God forbid you show up five minutes early, they'll ask you to wait outside.

I'm surprised no one here has yet recommended Aux Fins Gourmets (213, Blvd. Saint-Germain, Tel: 01 42 22 06 57) a true neighborhood bistro with the requisite southwestern menu, a solid wine list, tobacco-stained walls, and desserts from the local Peltier. I have never had a bad meal here or seen a tourist in the place. I was shocked to see it mentioned in Regina Shrambling's recent Paris story in the Times. I'm sure the owner was mortified (he told me they really only like to see locals in the place).

[Steve Klc]

Bux--that post of yours was a very thoughtful bit of writing, nicely framed.  Thank you.

[Bux]

Nice to know I have a fan club of one, but at least it's the right one.     Thank you. I've spent a lot of time thinking about an offhand comment I made to someone last fall about "sending the wrong person to the right restaurant." I'm not sure how you can prevent that as I have friends with whom I love to dine, with whom we cook in their kitchen in France and with whom we seem to share the same taste and yet there comes a restaurant we love and which they hate and vice versa. I don't mean a restaurant we like more than they do, but one I'd make a great detour to visit and they would avoid if was across the street.

Or were you referring to my acknowledgement that a taste for really great restaurants was a sort of curse and likely to bring a family to ruin as fast as a gambling addiction.  

[cabrales]

Nice to know I have a fan club of one, but at least it's the right one.    

Bux -- Hope you know there are at least two.  

[Steve Plotnicki]

Snowstorm-Okay, here is my 2 million cents.

If I understand upbeat to mean lively and fun, La Regalade will have the most "atmosphere," or it will be the biggest scene of the 4 you have mentioned. Among your list, it and L'Epi Dupin are similar in size but I think La Regalade attracts some part of the fashion crowd so it comes off as somewhat trendy at times. L'Epi Dupin I hear from countless friends who have gone has become dominated by American clientele. I don't know if that is important to you but you probably won't hear anything but English there. But neither place can be termed comfortable. La Maree is a place I ate at 20 years ago but a friend of mine now lives down the street and I've poked my head in on a number of occassions. Nothing has changed. It is much more formal than the other places mentioned and the atmosphere is sophisticated and sedate. I don't know if it is important to you but they have a fabulous well priced wine list there, especially white Burgundys to go with the fish they serve. The house specialty dish in Oysters in Champagne Sauce. I can't speak for L'Astrance but I am sure it is more sophisticated cuisine wise than any of the other places mentioned. Not sure of the ambiance but it doesn't sound as it if it is lively.

Now having said all of that, may I say that if I had just one meal in Paris, and I was loooking for wow factor and not at a three star type of establishment, I would opt for dinner (or lunch) at L'Ami Louis. Not everyone will agree with me because they think it is touristy but, to me it is the quintessential French bistro. I've never had a meal there that wasn't loads of fun. And I think the food happens to be great and simply cooked bistro cuisine. It's just that the portions are so large that everyone there is giggling all of the time. But my recomendation can't do it justice. The New York Times ran a review of it a number of years back calling it the world's greatest bistro. It's worth paying the $2.50 for the reprint from the archives because if you like that type of place, nothing can beat it.

Lesley C.- As a way of backing into the subject, have you read Gopnik's book Paris to the Moon? For the second part of the articles that comprise the book he lives just upstairs from Aux Fins de Gourmets. And he takes the food editor from one of the newspapers there for lunch. It's almost an entire chapter. But I have to say, considering how many years I have been staying in that neighborhood, I have never eaten there once. It always looks so dreary. For a number of years one of the books that list places by the dishes they serve listed the confit de canard at Aux Fins as one of the best. But about 2-3 years ago it fell off the list which knocked them a few pegs further down my list of places to try. But now you have rekindled my interest.

[cabrales]

I can't speak for L'Astrance but I am sure it is more sophisticated cuisine wise than any of the other places mentioned. Not sure of the ambiance but it doesn't sound as it if it is lively.

Now having said all of that, may I say that if I had just one meal in Paris, and I was loooking for wow factor and not at a three star type of establishment, I would opt for dinner (or lunch) at L'Ami Louis.

My unqualified recommendation of L'Astrance, on which there are probably sufficient posts in other threads  The ambiance is a collected, confident and "cool" (in a good sense) restaurant, with lush yellow and orange suede against the textured graphite walls and seductive lighting. I would not say the ambiance is lively -- full of joie de vivre, yes, but not particularly lively. (But decor is very personal. For example, some consider L'Ambroisie a romantic restaurant?)  

On L'Ami Louis, I was there within the last two months. A crisp salad with chevril to begin, and to end before dessert! Very rare for me, you see. However, I saw a two-service large free-range chicken (not Bresse) being served to the table next to me. The first service filled me with the sensations of garlic and was the breast of the chicken, with apparently nice effects on the skin. Then, the thighs. This chicken apparently has to be roasted for 45 minutes plus. Then, for me, only fraises des bois (they were in season) with cream that resembled butter more than most I have had. So L'Ami Louis would be good too, but, for me, clearly less interesting than L'Astrance.  

[Lesley C]

I read half of Gopnik's (a Montrealer  , well at least a former Montrealer) book before someone lifted it from my night table, but will run out and buy another copy immediately to read the bit about Aux Fins Gourmets.

It may look a bit dreary from the outside and it is a bit dreary on the inside (full of local lawyers, politicians and writers) but of the many bistros I've frequented, this is the one that makes me feel most like I’m in Paris (another is this little place called Au Bon Saint Pourcain in the 6th, but the food isn't half as good). The owner, Michel Dupleix told me his parents, originally from Béarn, opened the place in the 50's and he remembers as a child when his mother had the room painted white (the walls are now a deep shade of nicotine yellow). There are holes and cracks in the walls and a well-worn cement-tile floor (look up and you’ll see an old – very old – ham hanging from the ceiling) but they resist renovating because the customers wouldn’t be happy. It’s all quite rétro français but it’s also authentic. I always order celery rave, roast chicken or cassoulet and the pear feuilletée, real bistro food.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Bux's original response is on point.  While I may have personal thoughts on several of the restaurants you are considering, my sense is that you should, at this time, try to book at L'Astrance.  The other three have histories that suggest that each will retain its present essence over time, and that you will have the opportunity to visit them at a future time, something I would definitely advise.

L'Astrance alone among these, is the dining room that may well grow out of and away from what it is now.  Do be aware that L'Astrance accepts bookings exactly once month in advance to the day of the requested reservation.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Snowstorm-Sorry I hadn't read all of the other threads before posting. D'Chez Eux is as Mogsob describes and has quite a bit of wow factor as well. They offer a huge basket of charcuterie laden with all types of sausages and they have a chariot filled with bowls of various salads. They also have a gigantic dessert cart and offer unlimited servings of chocolate mousse, creme caramel etc. The atmosphere is a bit sedate although when the chariots arrive at your table they liven things up. But I would tend to avoid Le Dome. They serve fine fish there but it is about as boring a place as you could imagine and it won't do anything for your daughter. My wife and I almost fell asleep at lunch there last May.

[tony h]

I am passing through Paris in September but only have 1 night there. Which 3 star restaurant would you recommend (more importantly, which has passed its best).

I suppose I'm looking for the one with the biggest wow factor.

Thanks

[Bux]

Best and biggest wow factor are very subjective. The might not even be the same for all people. A lot may depend on your previous experience with three star restaurants, Parisian restaurant and certainly your outlook and attitude on food. I'm always surprised how different my reaction is compared to someone else's when in the abstract we seem to agree about food and dining. We have only been to four of the three stars and two of those were two stars at the time. In fact my best advice would be to get to a three star restaurant while it's a two star and preferably the year it earns that third star.

Prices will be a bit lower and they'll be trying harder.

With the "wow" factored in, Gagnaire gets the nomination from us. My caveat here is that we ate there just before it got it's third star and reservations were easy to get. I can't report on the inevitable changes in attitude, service and price, except that it seems to have gotten more expensive.

[lizziee]

I completely agree with Bux that what is great or with the most "wow factor" is completely subjective. I have eaten at all the 3 stars (2 when they were 2 - Ledoyen and Savoy) and I am hesitant to recommend what would be the best for you.

I would suggest you search past e-gullet posts and let the descriptions offered be your guide. Many are in depth with menus detailed and specific reactions.

The three stars are: Ledoyen, Lucas Carton, Plaza Athenee (Ducasse), Taillevent, L'Ambrosie, Arpege, Grand Vefour, Guy Savoy, Pierre Gagnaire.

[cabrales]

BLH -- Could you describe what general amount you have budgeted (if relvant) for the meal, wine included?

[lizziee]

In fact my best advice would be to get to a three star restaurant while it's a two star and preferably the year it earns that third star.

[tony h]

My only experience of top end Parisian restaurants are the 2 starred Le Bristol (loved it) and George Cinq (just ok). As for cost - I'm more than happy to sacrifice wine in favour of food.

(There was some who posted a wonderful assessment of Paris 2 & 3 star restaurants 2-3 months but I've spent 3 days searching for it without luck.)

Thanks so far.

[Gary Marshall]

I had a great evening in Guy Savoy (booked when it had 2 on a similar philosophy to Bux's). I picked it out of the ranks purely on the basis of the gordon ramsay connection, i wasn't disappointed, though i thought the prices had risen between booking and dining and the awarding of the 3rd star.

[JJS]

In the past six months I have eaten at: Guy Savoy, Laurent, Ledoyen, Michel Rostang, Pre Catalan, and the Bristol. The best individual dishes have been at Guy Savoy, in terms of 'wow', but the most serene and ultimately enjoyable experiences for me have been at the Bristol and Michel Rostang. I ate twice at MR and the first was a little better than the second but both times the atmosphere and service was first class. Guy Savoy (visited twice - just before and after the third star) is a more kinetic experience and can be a little unsettling. Also I think the deserts are a little too cerebal and thus can leave one feeling a little flat at the end of the meal.

The Bristol was a real gem for me - service was exceptional and the food was fantastic as well as genuinely inventive. Cheese is a little weak but this is only criticism I can think of. Ledoyen (again visited twice) has potential but I think has suffered from the third star and the whole place seems slightly ill at ease with its new status - it might need a year or two to settle. Laurent is for me too expensive for what it offers and can be cramped and the service rushed to the point of being genuinely rude - that said the food was at times exquisite.

For me I would go for the Bristol but the wow factor might be lacking - the overall experience is faultless though. Thus I would say if this is the main requirement Guy Savoy or Pierre Gagnaire or L'Arpege (the last two judging from second hand sources) might be the best bet.

[hollywood]

If you like duck, you could consider a former 3 star that's now a 2 star but could regain its (lost) star, La Tour D'Argent. For sheer wow, Guy Savoy is going to be hard to beat, but those prices. If you want a wild card up and coming situation, consider L'Astrance or Le Maison Blanche.

[marcus]

Definitely not La Tour D'Argent which is way, way over the hill, not even worth one star in my opinion. We went back there for old time's sake last December and also because I was curious about their wine list. Arrived at 9:30 and was the last table seated and next to the last table to leave at 11:30. In my first visit in 1967 they didn't even let you into the restaurant until after 9 and many diners were still on their main courses at midnight. The service was correct but perfunctory and hurried and there was no feeling of any buzz or dynamic tension that one feels in a happening restaurant. We started with the quenelles which were no better than any bistro in Lyon and far short of Greuze. Then had the famous pressed duck which was OK, but totally lacked the depth and flavor intensity that I remembered. The only dish that remained great was the black and white souffle (Valtesse) which they now serve with a glass of desert wine, a harmless affectation, but I don't believe that it adds to the desert experience, although it doesn't necessarily detract, viz our discussion of garnishes and cheese.

The wine list remains very great, although the older vintages were heavily picked over. I personally have an extensive knowledge of New York auction prices and their prices were all over the place, which is actually the situation that I prefer. I found a bottle of 1989 Clinet for 226 euros, which was just under $200 at the time. Subtracting tax and tip, this is about $150 versus a NY auction average of about $250+. The wine was outstanding, especially for a Pomerol, and I've added it to my purchase list. I don't mean to impugn Pomerols, but do prefer cabernet sauvignon based wines to merlots.

[lizziee]

"(There was some who posted a wonderful assessment of Paris 2 & 3 star restaurants 2-3 months but I've spent 3 days searching for it without luck.)"

There are numerous posts on the 3 stars - look under France at paris restaurants (May 15), A week in Paris, L'Ambrosie, Ledoyen, Mao and Vivin's Happy Trip Thru Paris, 2 and 3.

I know I said I wouldn't weigh in with a favorite, but so much for promises. The restaurant, for me, that is the most exciting in both "wow" factor, execution, technique, presentation is Pierre Gagnaire. Saying that, this is not a restaurant for everyone. People either love it or hate it --- there doesn't seem to be much middle ground in people's assessment.

[cabrales]

BLH -- Which night of the week are you considering visiting Paris? If it's a weekend night, for example, your choices might be more limited.

Also, could the below-linked thread be the thread you were not finding?

http://forums.egullet.org/ibf/index.php?s=...f=10&t=4959&hl=