High Alcohol Wines due to Global Warming

[Brad Ballinger]

No one has mentioned that about 100 years ago, wines used to be higher in alcohol than the 13.5% that we seemed to see on every bottle about 15 years ago. It was not uncommon for some Burgundies to be 16% alcohol or more.

I mention this not to advocate for high alcohol wines (I'm in the camp that would like to see the trend stopped or reversed). But I mention it to illustrate that alcohol in wine has little, if anything, to do with global warming.

[Vinfidel]

thank you brad for your good words

please tell us more about these old high alcohol monsters

today i entertained myself by letting my employees taste some delicious california grapes i bought at the market and informing them that the sweet and tasty little grapes were thanks to the global warming as told by our local wine expert

[JohnL]

No one has mentioned that about 100 years ago, wines used to be higher in alcohol than the 13.5% that we seemed to see on every bottle about 15 years ago.  It was not uncommon for some Burgundies to be 16% alcohol or more.

I mention this not to advocate for high alcohol wines (I'm in the camp that would like to see the trend stopped or reversed).  But I mention it to illustrate that alcohol in wine has little, if anything, to do with global warming.

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A good point.

Also many of those Burgundies were "fortified" with wine from North Africa or the Rhone.

So much for the "traditionalist" arguments. There is also reason to believe that this practice has been ongoing and continues today --to a lesser degree one hopes. It was not long ago that a freighter sank off the coast of France and it was discovered that it was loaded with Italian juice to the chagrin of the French.

Basically, winemaking has been evolving for centuries-- trends come and go.

There is plenty of room to discuss and debate the merits or lack of merit to alcohol levels(high or low) in wine. There should also be plenty of room for wines with different levels of alcohol to exist.

What is tiring are the "absolutists." Folks who declare that "real true Burgundy is......" They seek to define what we should like or not like based upon their criteria.

Even global warming needs some perspective--the fact is the earth has gone through periods of warmer and cooler temperatures. So too, wine has gone through periods of higher alcohol levels and lower alcohol levels.

I would challenge anyone to make a good case that wine drinkers were better off thirty years ago compared to today.

What I do hear is a lot of hysteria about globalization and modernization and a lot of dishonesty.

Mondovino is rife with it.

I also applaud you for a common sense approach and your honesty.

As I said there could be an interesting discussion about alcohol levels in wine if the "agendas" could be put aside (Mr Anderson, Ms Robinson).

As for me--I have come to love a wide variety of wine types, oaked, non oaked, high alcohol, low alcohol, wines from cool climes and wines from hot climates. To me there is merit and enjoyment to be found in most every well made wine (and also downside) I haven't found the "perfect wine and truth told I am not sure I want to--the search is too much fun!

[docsconz]

Nice post, John. The only point I wish to address is the issue of globalization. I feel the same way about enjoying many different kinds, types and styles of wine. Tht is why I am concerned about globalization. Yes, there certainly is more technically proficient wine on the market than ever before. One is certainly less likely than ever to find a "bad" wine. On the other hand, I have had many wines from California, France, Australia, Italy, Spain, South Africa and elsewhere that essentially taste the same. They are good, but ultimately boring.

[Vinfidel]

doc, very good points

however i took a problem with the term globalisation used like it is in mondovino

it is not detrimental for the world to be globalized; we learn more as we know each other more

i think a better term is 'generic' wines

another thing is i have never tasted a wine from chile and mistaken it for america, or australia mistaken for anything or france or germany or anywhere

terrior cannot be masked by tricks in the lab it will always taste difference. even the best masquerade will show the taste of the climate and the earth from where it came.

would love to see some examples of wines from italy or france that taste like those from america or australia to the point where you are confused from where it came

[docsconz]

doc, very good points

however i took a problem with the term globalisation used like it is in mondovino

it is not detrimental for the world to be globalized; we learn more as we know  each other more

i think a better term is 'generic' wines

another thing is i have never tasted a wine from chile and mistaken it for america, or australia mistaken for anything or france or germany or anywhere

terrior cannot be masked by tricks in the lab it will always taste difference. even the best masquerade will show the taste of the climate and the earth from where it came.

would love to see some examples of wines from italy or france that taste like those from america or australia to the point where you are confused from where it came

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You have a much more discriminating palate than I do then if you can accurately distinguish a lot of the wines coming to market nowadays. Not only do I find it difficult to distinguish them by origen, many are hard to distinguish between varietals.

By the way I did not like the movie Mondovino. I thought it terribly unfair even though I agree with a lot of its premise. Too many wines around the globe are stylistically similar. Call it what you will.

[JohnL]

doc, very good points

however i took a problem with the term globalisation used like it is in mondovino

it is not detrimental for the world to be globalized; we learn more as we know  each other more

i think a better term is 'generic' wines

another thing is i have never tasted a wine from chile and mistaken it for america, or australia mistaken for anything or france or germany or anywhere

terrior cannot be masked by tricks in the lab it will always taste difference. even the best masquerade will show the taste of the climate and the earth from where it came.

would love to see some examples of wines from italy or france that taste like those from america or australia to the point where you are confused from where it came

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You have a much more discriminating palate than I do then if you can accurately distinguish a lot of the wines coming to market nowadays. Not only do I find it difficult to distinguish them by origen, many are hard to distinguish between varietals.

By the way I did not like the movie Mondovino. I thought it terribly unfair even though I agree with a lot of its premise. Too many wines around the globe are stylistically similar. Call it what you will.

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I agree with both of you! And I also disagree!

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All wines have terroir--that is they all come from somewhere.

Sometimes terroir is very specific--ie identifying a Graves vs a Pauillac.

Sometimes it is more general--ie a wine from Mountain grown cabernet (say Howell Mountain) vs

a wine from the Rutherford Bench.

Terroir is easier to identify when wines from different terroirs are compared---that is a point of reference is available.

Sometimes it is difficult to identify--IMOP it can be "masked" too much oak for eg.

like Doc-I have encountered wines from two different places that were indistinguishable.

Interestingly, terroir is not as easy to "get." as many would have us believe. For eg the 1976 tasting showed something I believe to be almost as important as California wines holding their own against French wines--that is experienced tasters had great difficulty in "recognizing" the provenance of the wines--their terroir!

The best example of this difficulty for me was a chance to taste a 1985 Eyrie Reserve against a 1985 Volnay Pousse D' Or-- Clos de 60 Ouvrees, side by side each wine at ten years of age. I could barely tell them apart.

conversely, I had a chance to taste several 97 Cabernets on release--including many cult cabs--these wines are often dismissed by critics (mostly British) as "fruit bombs" "over extracted" too big etc etc etc.--Harlan, Colgin, Screaming Eagle, Bryant Family etc.

well, it was amazing to me how different they were from each other! It was also an eye opener how many were possessing of individual character and how many of them displayed complex subtlety and flavors and even "elegance" to use a too vague descriptor.

I have also had some Cal cabs that were too monolithic and overwhelmed my palate--its a mixed bag--that is good--one can not simply lump all these wines together.

So terroir is important--but it is not the be all and end all many of its proponants would have us believe. Try to taste say a Chambertin from several different producers--same vintage--one would have a very hard time discerning which wine was the 'real" or "best" example of the Chambertin vinyard! One would have a much easier time identifying the producer though!

As for Doc's concerns--I think they are very valid. I do think that, at the moment, they do not apply so much to the very top wines from around the world. or even the very best producers. Fashion is always a big factor but there are just too many growers and wine makers around the world--for example Cabernet franc from the Loire and Long Island and California--say, a Chinon from Jouget and Cab franc from Schneider and from Pride are all quite individually distinctive.

One can still see quite differing styles in Burgundy and Bordeaux and the Rhone and Italy etc etc One hopes this will continue! I believe that if there is too much "sameness" in wine --then, enough of the market (all of us here at eGullet etc) will demand better! I just do not think we will ever get to that point--hopefully!

Globalization is both good and bad--good in that winemakers and grape growers all over the world can benefit from shared knowledge and experiences and we wine drinkers can access more wines from more varietals and blends from more places--the downside is that there can be an opportunity for "sameness."--I would hate to see every wine maker vinify in oak barrels as much as I would hate to see them all use no oak at all. And for the market--there will still be a "sameness" or international style in wines meant for mass consumption--that is not necc a bad thing. Take Penfold for eg--they make a lot of "generic" tasting stuff and at the same time they make some very individual and distinctive tasting wine--various Bins for Cabs and Grange etc.

Gallo--believe it or not is attempting to enter the higher end of the market with some fairly interesting wines--their Sonoma label for example.

What is also true is that things in the wine world are evolving constantly--just look at California over the last thirty years--it is hard to keep up with the changes in the varietals grown--from table grapes to Cabernet to Chardonnay to Pinot Noir--Rhone varietals, Zinfandel, merlot and on and on. Growers are still searching for "terroir" trying to find out which grapes do best where.

Same in Oregon and in Washington state--and places like Virginia and Texas are emerging as wine producers. That is just the US! It is becoming more and more difficult to generalize!

as for Mondovino--I actually found it entertaining stylistically, but it was so slanted and subversive--it was a piece of agitprop-- that the valid points it tried to make were lost.

If one wants to experience the same points presented in a more level headed and thoughtful manner--I would urge them to read "The Accidental Connoisseur" by Lawrence Osborne.

Osborne is a friend of Nossitor who made Mondovino and Nossitor inspired Osborne to write the book. It says everything that Mondovino tries to in a very moving and passionate way without being subversive or relying on gimmicks and cheap shots. (I loved the book).

I would also urge you to read the opening of Parker's book "The World's greatest Wine Estates"--Parker makes a very level headed and clear case for his view points and "answers" a lot of his critics. Parker has basically laid out his philosophy about and approach to wine in one very readable "essay." One can certainly disagree and disagree with either approach (I find merit in both sides). But both the Parker piece and the Osborne book present two very different approaches to wine today. Is one "right" and the other "wrong?" No--they are just different--one can learn and increase one's enjoyment of wine from each.

[Rebel Rose]

So, just to recap the discussion as best I can . . .

A. There have always been high alcohol wines (interesting historical points, Brad!)

B. There may be more high alcohol wines now, but

C. One can still find gentler alcohols.

D. Any popular trend toward higher alcohols is not due to global warming.

I guess that means I can put away my deck chair and cocktail umbrellas for the season.

For those who would like to continue a discussion about higher alcohols, I recommend the High Alcohol Wines - Overkill? thread. For the sake of topical clarity, let's keep this thread focused on the veracity (or lack thereof) of the global warming theory.

[JohnL]

So, just to recap the discussion as best I can . . .

A.  There have always been high alcohol wines (interesting historical points, Brad!)

B.  There may be more high alcohol wines now, but

C.  One can still find gentler alcohols.

D.  Any popular trend toward higher alcohols is not due to global warming.

I guess that means I can put away my deck chair and cocktail umbrellas for the season. 

For those who would like to continue a discussion about higher alcohols, I recommend the High Alcohol Wines - Overkill? thread.  For the sake of topical clarity, let's keep this thread focused on the veracity (or lack thereof) of the global warming theory.

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well done Mary!

on item D though--I am not sure we resolved that here.

I would say that we all seem to agree that climate is a factor in ripeness and alcohol levels and I guess we would agree that there is a global warming trend.

Will it continue until we are all treading water--as an aside--boy was that movie waterworld a stinker!

Will it reverse itself?

will we all be drinking only icewine?--stay tuned!

I guess I would say that global warming "may be a factor among many."

How's that for a decisive conclusion?

[docsconz]

JohnL, I want to thank you for your well reasoned and written posts. I must say that I agree with every point that you made.

[Brad Ballinger]

No one has mentioned that about 100 years ago, wines used to be higher in alcohol than the 13.5% that we seemed to see on every bottle about 15 years ago.  It was not uncommon for some Burgundies to be 16% alcohol or more.

I mention this not to advocate for high alcohol wines (I'm in the camp that would like to see the trend stopped or reversed).  But I mention it to illustrate that alcohol in wine has little, if anything, to do with global warming.

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By chance, I happened to come across the source I read a few years ago for my making the above comment. Click here for a post by Siduri Wines' Adam Lee on another forum for more information.