port that goes with chocolate

[Trishiad]

I'd like to make a bonbon using a local port and some local chocolate. I need a port that will go nicely with a rather fruity bittersweet chocolate. Any ideas?

I'd love to use this as an excuse to wander the valleys tasting but sadly don't have the time.

Edited October 3, 2005 by Trishiad (log)

[winesonoma]

Wellington makes a nice one. http://www.wellingtonvineyards.com/index.html

[ludja]

I haven't been there yet, but have heard many solid recommendations for Prager Winery and Port Works in Napa.

Another option, might be to try a late harvest Zinfandel. I've had nice ones from J. Fritz Winery in Sonoma, north of Healdsburg. They often taste them with dark chocolate and it's a wonderful combination.

Here's a tasting note on their website:

Rich and robust, this port-like dessert wine combines deep raspberry and ripe black cherry flavors with caramel and toasty spiciness. Natural sweetness combined with delicately balanced acidity – dessert in a glass!

Edited October 3, 2005 by ludja (log)

[Daniel Rogov]

I do hate to be a stick-in-the-mud, but Port wine does not come from California. Port wine comes only from Portugal. If you like, I can even supply a full list of the Port lodges and believe me, not one of them is located in California.

Not a question of legalities or international conventions in my case. Simply one of realities and aesthetics.

[Trishiad]

Is that like Champagne only coming from France so what we make here is sparkling wine? What is the wine we call port?

[Daniel Rogov]

Trishiad, Hi..

Indeed much the same. And even more...Champagne does not come from all of France. It comes only from the region of France known as Champagne (bound more or less by Epernay and Reims).

Also worth keeping in mind that not all sparkling wines are made as Champagne is made (the second fermentation in the bottle). Much is made by the charmat method (in tanks) and by other methods. As not all port-style wine contains the same grapes or is made by the same method as in Portugal.

I have no objection to giving a wine a proprietary name and then, in smaller letters writing "wine in the style of Port" or "made by the Champenoise method" but Port it ain't and Champagne it ain't.

Edited October 4, 2005 by Daniel Rogov (log)

[carswell]

Is that like Champagne only coming from France so what we make here is sparkling wine?  What is the wine we call port?

←

Mr. Rogov's admonitions notwithstanding, the use of the names of European appellations on US wines was recently legitimized for existing brands. From "U.S., EU Settle Wine Name Dispute" in the September 15, 2005, issue of the Los Angeles Times (registration required):

The United States and the European Union have settled a long-running dispute over wine names and regulation, a leading trade group said Wednesday.

Under an agreement that the U.S. trade representative is expected to announce today, domestic vintners, including those in California's $15-billion-a-year wine industry, would have continued access to European Union countries, which buy 2 of every 3 bottles of wine exported from the United States.

At the same time, the deal would bar U.S. winemakers from using famous names such as Champagne, Burgundy and Chablis on new wine brands.

[...]

In return, the pact would settle a long dispute over the American custom of using European place names on domestic wines, a practice that is more than a century old.

The agreement would allow for the continued use of such terms on existing brands but not new brands.

So, like the idea or not (and on the whole I don't), California Champagne and Port will be with us for some time to come.

Edited October 4, 2005 by carswell (log)

[Carolyn Tillie]

And to even add to the mix, there are wineries like Prager and Wellington that are making "port" which is all well and good. But the bottom line is that they are REALLY making sweet wine from red grapes. Prager's Royal Escort is made from Petite Sirah grapes. I can't tell you what Wellington's is made from. I also like one from Mayo and theirs is made from Zinfandel.

The bottom line is that port wine is produced from a blend of the five classic Port-wine grapes; Touriga, Tinta Cao, Alvarelhao, Souzao, and Tinta Roriz. So, begging Mr. Rogov's indulgence, I would argue that if even a California winery uses these classic grapes and the salero system, that it could honestly be called a port...

With that in mind, there ARE a few wineries that fit this criteria. I send you to my report on St. Amant because the owner, Tim Spencer, was one of -- if not THE -- first to produce a California port from the classic five grapes. Others whom Spencer has consulted with (and sold grapes to), include Lodi wineries Cedar Mountain and Bent Creek.

When I visited Tim Spencer, he told stories of how he sat on port juries with Jim Prager (apparently the two don't see eye-to-eye). For me, at almost half the price, I'll take the St. Amant port any day of the week over Prager. Quite astonishing really...

[KatieLoeb]

Heitz Cellars Ink Grade Vineyard Port from Napa is pretty good stuff and uses the authentic grape varietals as described by Carolyn.

I've had this. It's quite good.

[Daniel Rogov]

So, begging Mr. Rogov's indulgence, I would argue that if even a California winery uses these classic grapes and the salero system, that it could honestly be called a port...

Carolyn, Hi...

Begging my indulgence is unnecessary at any rate I would agree that those using the traditional grapes and the solera method would be entitled to use the title "Wine in the Style of Port". Despite that I would say that the name itself is place-specific and thus not transferable.

As a parallel example - let's look at wines made from various blends of the 22 varieties approved by the French government for use in the Cotes du Rhone and Rhone Valley. Should that be done scrupulously (as it is by members for example of the Rhone Rangers in the USA), would you want those wines labeled "Cotes du Rhone"? And does anyone do anything but chuckle at thoughts of Gallo's Hearty Burgundy and Chablis (the last of which contained not a drop of Chardonnay grapes for many years)

I am well aware of the wide use of names such as Burgundy, Port, Sherry and Champagne and of the legal/legalistic arguments, both national and multi-national about these. As I said earlier, I am not on the side of the legalists. I am, however, on the side of time and place focused tradition. As to the recent agreements, I am happy for the people involved that the situation is being resolved. At least in my opinion, however, this does not "make it right". But then again, that's my privilege as a curmudgeon.

Edited October 4, 2005 by Daniel Rogov (log)

[jackal10]

Amen!

Especially unfortunate is "Port style sacramental wine", such as branded Carmel or Kedem..

Sweet fortified wine made is California or Israel is not Port, anymore than blue cheese made in California is Stilton.

That said California should be able to make fine fortified red wines, especially from the pre-phyloxera vines. Just don't call it Port. So far as I know there is only one quinta in Portugal, the Quinta de Noval Nacional, that has the Touriga Nacional pre-phyloxera grape. The port is amazing, if you are so lucky as to be able to find it.

Edited October 4, 2005 by jackal10 (log)

[Adam Balic]

Not sure that this help very much, but I don't think that Port goes very well with chocolate at all, unless it is a quite sweet. It tends to make the kill the taste of the port and make the bitter flavours of the chocolate come out. I wouldn't pair chocolate with an aged port either.

Young fruity alcoholic styles of Port would be you best bet. Or you could try a Banyuls, fortified Pedro Ximénez or maybe some of the Australian fortified wines from Rutherglen.

Regarding "Port". Wines that were formally called "Port" (for ~ 150 years) now tend to be labeled as "Fortified Shiraz" or "Portofsorts" etc, no big deal really.

[Carolyn Tillie]

Okay - I'm sold... I attended a symposium where producers of Parmesano-Reggiano, Prosciutto, and Comte cheeses were all trying to sell us press folk that their name-sake products should remain as such. I can easily buy into that and have bought into the Champagne, Stilton, and Bologna arguments. I guess I wavered on the Port argument because it *seemed* only an abbreviation of PORTugal (to us philistine Americans, anyway). Not that it is likely to change overnight, but you've got this intrepid reporter who will do her part to assuage the masses in this context.

Adam, for you, however, I would disagree. I think much depends on the quality of chocolate being eaten as well as the cocoa content. I believe that Port should only be consumed with a chocolate product that is at LEAST 70% to 75% bittersweet (No Milk Chocolate!). In a similar vein as to why I like sharp blue cheeses with a sweet wine, I don't think that enhancing the sharp notes in a chocolate with a port is a bad thing. You call those flavors bitter. I'll use the chocolatier Michel Cluizel as an example. They make some country-specific chocolates and in many cases, the chocolate from Madagascar has sharp notes akin to a cranberries. Obviously the sweet port is going to enhance those sharp tones but I enjoy that. One of my favorite after-dinner treats is a freshly sliced bosc pear, some dark bittersweet chocolate, and a lovely ruby Port...

[Adam Balic]

Carolyn - I guess this is where the importance of names comes in. "Port" is not a very exact name and covers a wine range of products (I think that technically/historically "Port" refers to shipped fortified wine leaving Oporto, so the wine in Portugual wasn't actually "Port", maybe a wine-head could correct me on this?).

When I see "Port" my default is "expensive, well aged, needs decanting, needs nothing to go with it" (although a slice of pear sounds great). I'm sure that there is a style of Port to go with Chocolate and I should confess that I don' really like chocolate, so I should shut up with the advise really.

But I still think that other fortified styles are worth considering.

[carswell]

I think that technically/historically "Port" refers to shipped fortified wine leaving Oporto, so the wine in Portugual wasn't actually "Port", maybe a wine-head could correct me on this?

←

You're right, as one might deduce from the wine's name in nearly every language except English (including Portuguese): Porto. The year of the first recorded occurence in English is 1691.

When I see "Port" my default is "expensive, well aged, needs decanting, needs nothing to go with it" (although a slice of pear sounds great). I'm sure that there is a style of Port to go with Chocolate and I should confess that I don' really like chocolate, so I should shut up with the advise really.

But I still think that other fortified styles are worth considering.

I agree there are wines that work better with chocolate desserts than Port does. Banyuls, Maury and, especially if the chocolate is combined with orange, certain sweet muscat wines (late harvest St-Jean-de Minervois or even Bonny Doon's vin de glacier), for example. Among true Ports, a Tawny is often best. But for flavouring chocolate bonbons — the purpose Trishiad originally inquired about — local "Port" would be fine.

Edited October 4, 2005 by carswell (log)

[Trishiad]

I had to take a day to come back to this 'cause you guys were freaking me out a little. I didn't realize I was opening such a large can of worms. I will check into some of the wines suggested and will try to avoid using the word Port in the candy description. So, fortified wine would be an appropriate description?

[carswell]

I had to take a day to come back to this 'cause you guys were freaking me out a little.  I didn't realize I was opening such a large can of worms.  I will check into some of the wines suggested and will try to avoid using the word Port in the candy description.  So, fortified wine would be an appropriate description?

←

"Fortified wine" is too vague: while all Port is fortified wine, not all fortified wine is Port or even Port-style wine (Sherry and Vermouth, for example, are fortified). For a generic, you could go with Port-style wine. If I were you, though, I'd specify the brand name of the wine you use, and if that happens to be a California Port, so be it. Your customers will recognize, understand and probably be attracted to the concept; there will be no possiblity of confusion; and, as a result of the above-mentioned agreement between the US and the EU, you'll have the law on your side.

[CtznCane]

Here (speaking of the states) we call it port. Deal with it. Like it or don't like it. We also generically refer to sparkiling wine as champagne. Whatever happened to imitation being the most sincere form of flattery?

The English call it Port. I believe ( correct me if I'm wrong) that the true Portuguese word for it is Porto and we do not call it Porto over here. With Champagne there is at least a fairly short alternative in 'sparkling wine' which still doesn't roll off the tongue that conveniently. To say though 'a fortified wine in the style of port' or such variation seems insane. There just is not a good descriptive term to use in place of Port and besides even the neophyte typically knows (or learns early on) that Port is a Portuguese wine or refers to that style of wine but made over here.

I can't say with certainty, but of the Ports I looked at here (that I have and others) that are called "Port" are made from the traditional Oporto grape varietals. Other ports are labeled differently with that difference usually being a varietal such as 'Zinfandel Port', 'Cabernet Port', "Petit Sirah Port' or the such.

[jackal10]

Here (speaking of the states) we call it port.  Deal with it. Like it or don't like it.  We also generically refer to sparkiling wine as champagne. 

Calling a fortified sweet red wine port regardless or origin is imprecise or ignorant, and reflects badly on those who do so. For example it could well be interpreted tomean that your chocolate was mixed with cheap sacremental wine, which must be lagest amount of that style wine produced. Why not give the exact wine name if the wine is a feature?