Dessert Wines

[Rebel Rose]

Does the term "dessert wine" mean that a wine is designed to go with dessert? Or does "dessert wine" mean that the wine is a dessert?

In most restaurants, the dessert menu ranges across cheesecake, chocolate decadence, and ice cream. Customers select a sherry or port or whatever to go with an already sweet, cloying, oily dessert dish that will completely encapsulate the palate. What's the point?

If you could pick a dessert wine for the "main dish," what would you serve to highlight its flavors?

Related thread: Dessert Wines for the Holidays

[melkor]

I generally go for something simple and not too sweet. Panna cotta, creme brulee, olive oil cake, bread pudding, rice pudding, that sort of thing.

[Carrot Top]

A dessert wine to me is no little black dress.

It is no mere accessory.

It is a wardrobe unto itself.

[Gifted Gourmet]

Dessert wines, as I understand it, are sweet wines that are served with (or instead of) dessert. And I also understand that a dessert wine should always be sweeter than the dessert it accompanies, n'est pas?

I enjoy fortified wines like tawny ports and sherries, eisweins (Inniskillen),"Vin de Glacier" from Bonny Doon Winery in Santa Cruz, California (where my daughter lives) and, of course, Banyuls, Domaines et Terroirs du Sud, are my favorites at the moment.

[divalasvegas]

Well, encouraged by Rebel Rose and in spite of my wine ignorance here's my take on dessert wine.

I cannot recall the name of a dessert wine I had about 2 years ago, so perhaps someone here could give me some guidance as to what type of wine I enjoyed so thoroughly.

At an upscale Italian restaurant in Minneapolis, I had the tasting menu. I requested and received the menu for that evening, but misplaced it. Anyway, I think all of the food/wine pairings worked, but on different levels. A couple were just okay, a couple were very good, but the dessert/wine pairing was so incredible I can almost taste it now. It was a lemon tart with, I think, a hazlenut or pine nut crust, topped with huckleberries. It was my first taste of those berries; like blueberries on steriods, IMHO. This was paired with a glass of what I would guess was a type of port. It was a vibrant red with deep berry aromas (sorry I don't have the wine-geek words to better describe it). I would take a bite of the tart and a taste of the wine and together they were beyond amazing. Alone they were delicious; but together they became something else altogether. The restaurant was D'Amico Cucina, I think.

I think my verdict from my limited experience is that I really enjoy wine with dessert. Again, just need a little guidance. Are the only dessert wines that are red ports? Or are there other dessert wines that are red as well?

[mike volker]

For the 4th of July I did a huge bowl of fresh berry fruits; blueberry, strawberry, raspberry, and those huge pacific blackberries. Then I served Cline's late harvest mourvdre with it and everyone was stunned at how good it was.

Best,

Mike

[carswell]

Are the only dessert wines that are red ports? Or are there other dessert wines that are red as well?

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Port is the best known red dessert wine but there are plenty of others: Banuyls, Riversaltes and Maury from France; Licor de Tannat from Uruguay; Mavrodaphne from Greece; and Ridge's Zinfandel Essence from California. In Italy, some Recioto-di-Valpolicella are quite sweet; Tuscans make semi-sweet wine from aleatico (Antinori's is quite successful); and in the Alto Adige, Alois Lageder makes a trippy Moscato Rosa. And so on. Not to mention all the imitation "ports" made around the globe.

Edited September 30, 2005 by carswell (log)

[divalasvegas]

Are the only dessert wines that are red ports? Or are there other dessert wines that are red as well?

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Port is the best known red dessert wine but there are plenty of others: Banuyls, Riversaltes and Maury from France; Licor de Tannat from Uruguay; Mavrodaphne from Greece; and Ridge's Zinfandel Essence from California. In Italy, some Recioto-di-Valpolicella are quite sweet; Tuscans make semi-sweet wine from aleatico (Antinori's is quite successful); and in the Alto Adige, Alois Lageder makes a trippy Moscato Rosa. And so on. Not to mention all the imitation "ports" made around the globe.

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Thanks carswell. I wish I could be more descriptive. Alas, that was two years ago. I guess it's time to go home and tear up the place for the menu they gave me. I remember that the staff was very friendly and down to earth about explaining what we were drinking at the time (they even accidentally on purpose gave me a second dessert wine). I recall saying something insightful and sophisticated when I first tasted the wine such as "Wow, this is really great!" Obviously I need a little advice on how to describe what I've tasted as well.

[carswell]

Obviously I need a little advice on how to describe what I've tasted as well.

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Vibrant red with deep berry aromas is a good description, as far as it goes. The problem is that it could apply to any number of wines. Based on D'Amico Cucina's current wine list, I'd guess you drank a Recioto della Valpolicella. But two years is a long time and who knows what they had on their list back then. Your best bet is to dig up that menu.

[Daniel Rogov]

Thinking of dessert wines (which can also be served as aperitifs or as accompaniments to first course dishes based on goose liver) as merely "accessories" has something akin to thinking of Lambhoginis as "just another auto" or of foie gras as "a piece of meat".

One way to prove my point. The 2001 Chateau d'Yquem was released this week. Here is my tasting note:

Chateau d'Yquem, Sauternes, 2001: One of those magnificent wines that sets Yquem above all others and a wine that will cellar comfortably for 70, 80 or more years. Deep golden yellow with orange, green and red reflections, full-bodied, with intense sweetness set off beautifully by natural balancing acidity. On the nose and palate a remarkably complex array of aromas and flavors, those including ripe yellow peaches, apricots, eucalyptus honey and sugar-glazed pineapple. As the wine develops look for spices that will rise as well as a gentle hint of caramel that will start to tip-toe in in another decade. One of the greats, standing comfortably alongside the superb wines of 1921, 1929, 1947, 1959 and 1967. You can drink, admire, enjoy and even adore this wine now but that would be a shame for it will begin show its best only in another decade. Expect the wine to be at its very best starting in 2025 and then to cellar comfortably until 2075 or longer. Score 100. (Tasted 28 Sep 2005)

[Marco_Polo]

Rebel, your posts are often beautifully designed to provoke and evoke passions in wine lovers.

There is no sphere of winemaking that allows for such magnificent variety and ingenuity as in the production of so-called dessert wines.

I have a personal fascination for Italian passiti wines in all their glorious diversity. The process of laying grapes out to dry and shrivel for the period of the appassimento then producing concentrated sweet wines from the sugar-rich grape juice goes back to antiquity and is just as relevant today for the lover of sweet wines. Traditional Vin Santo (it is impossible to make the real thing on a commercial scale) is a truly magnificent expression of the grape. After the careful period of appassimento, the wines, fermented on a sludgy madre in small caratelli that are sealed completely, are left in the attic vinsanteria for upwards of years, suffering the freezing cold of winter and the hellish heat of summer. The wine that eventually emerges from this brutal sojourn, amber in colour, with concentrated notes of caramel, butter, orange and world of other flavours and scents, is most definitely far too good to dip crunchy cantuccini biscuits in! Avignonesi's rare Occhio di Pernice (from Prugnolo Gentile black grapes) is a benchmark, but I've also enjoyed many truly magnificent handmade wines from small, little known properties in Carmignano and Chianti Classico that are simply produced in such tiny quantity that they can never be commercialised.

Recioto della Valpolicella has already been mentioned, and other great Italian passiti wines include versions made from Nosiolo in Trentino, Greco (di Bianco) in Calabria, Sciacchetrà in the Cinqueterre, Moscato in Piedmont and Zibibbo (a variant of Moscato) from Pantelleria, a tiny volcanic island off the coast of North Africa (in this case the grapes are dried in the direct blast furnace of heat of the near African sun).

Such raisiny, rich, complex wines are most definitely some of the best of all wines, I think, for actually accompanying a range of desserts. They are concentrated and complex enough to cut through the sweetness of the pudding and can usually more than hold their own. On the other hand, as has been suggested, the finest are a veritable dessert in themselves, and are most definitely best enjoyed simply savoured on their own.

MP

[Rebel Rose]

but the dessert/wine pairing was so incredible I can almost taste it now. It was a lemon tart with, I think, a hazlenut or pine nut crust, topped with huckleberries.  It was my first taste of those berries; like blueberries on steriods, IMHO.  This was paired with a glass of what I would guess was a type of port. It was a vibrant red with deep berry aromas (sorry I don't have the wine-geek words to better describe it). I would take a bite of the tart and a taste of the wine and together they were beyond amazing. Alone they were delicious; but together they became something else altogether.   The restaurant was D'Amico Cucina, I think.

Although I generally prefer cheese and sesame-glazed walnuts with a port-style wine, this is exactly the kind of dessert and dessert wine pairing I would enjoy. The wine might have been a late harvest style, as it sounds as though it retained some exuberant fruit and not ripened to that pruny, raisiny level found in many ports. And a lemon tart with nuts and huckleberries would mirror the flavors in the port while providing enough acidity to refresh the palate. So a diner would take a bite of tart-sweet, then a sip of sweet-tart, and feel like starting all over again. To me, that is the goal of any food and wine pairing!

[Daniel Rogov]

Forgive a curmudgeon for reminding us but there seems to be some confusion on this thread between dessert wines and fortified wines. Fortified wines, such as Sherry and Port are usually thought of as "after-dinner wines" and not so much "dessert wines". Dessert wines "proper", regardless of whether they come from Sauternes, Barsac, California, the Loire, Italy, or are the ice wines of Germany and Canada are very very rarely fortified.

Dessert wines tend to go well not only with cheeses but, as implied in their name, many desserts, especially those based on fruits or cheeses. Fortified wines tend to go primarily with fruits (pure and simple but not prepared), nuts and cheeses.

Also worth keeping in mind that many dessert wines are very appropriate as aperitifs or as accompaniments to first courses, especially those based on goose liver.

Edited October 1, 2005 by Daniel Rogov (log)

[Rebel Rose]

True, but to take that a step further, American producers generally categorize sweet wines as either late harvest or fortified, with both types of wines falling in the dessert category. Sloppy American semantics, I suppose. However, I have tasted many late harvest wines that were more raisiny, pruney, and caramelized than some fortified wines, as the process of fortification ideally stops the fermentation process at a balance of sugar and alcohol.

To add to the muddle, the (AT)TTB former BATF insists that any wine over 14% be submitted in the dessert wine category, which carries a higher alcohol tax. So there are a lot of California dry table wines out there that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, Trade and Tax has registered as dessert wine!

[Daniel Rogov]

To add to the muddle, the (AT)TTB former BATF insists that any wine over 14% be submitted in the dessert wine category, which carries a higher alcohol tax.

[

To borrow again from Mr. Bumble and thus to repeat what I wrote yesterday in a completely different context: "The law is a ass"

As to BATF, whenever I think of that acronym and the logic of the group behind it I am tempted to add three lower case letters after the "F". In the name of good taste, I have to date avoided doing so.

[carswell]

No confusion whatsoever. Most dictionary definitions don't exclude fortified wines (e.g. "a usually sweet wine typically served with dessert or afterward" -Merriam-Webster's). And in popular and even scholarly usage the term often refers to both fortified and non-fortified sweet wines:

- "These are sweet wines that are served with (or instead of) dessert. Examples include fortified wines like port and sherry, and late harvest wines, which are made from grapes that have shriveled a bit, concentrating their sweetness." (Cook's Thesaurus)

- "Dessert wines are those wines which are typically served with dessert, although they are also drunk on their own, i.e. not accompanying food. They are often sweet wines such as ice wine, Sauternes, Tokaji Aszú, beerenauslese, trockenbeerenauslese and Commandaria or fortified wines such as sherry and port." (Wikipedia)

- "A wine, usually sweet, sometimes fortified, sometimes sparkling, that is consumed as or with dessert after a meal." (Fogwell's Guides)

- "Any of a wide variety of sweet wines-sometimes fortified with Brandy, all of which are compatible with dessert." (foodmonster.com)

- Look up dessert wines in the Oxford Companion to Wine (1st ed.) and you'll be referred to the entries for sweet wines and fortified wines.

- As a web search will quickly show, many retailers use the term as a convenient generic for fortified and non-fortified sweet wines.

When someone asks for a dessert wine to go with their chocolate soufflé, they probably aren't asking only for a non-fortified wine suggestion and will be perfectly happy if you recommend a Port or Banyuls instead of a sweet muscat or late-harvest whatever.

Fortified wines tend to go primarily with fruits (pure and simple but not prepared), nuts and cheeses.

Vin doux naturel (Maury, Banyuls, etc.) and Port, especially Tawny Port, are standard reccos for chocolate desserts. Sweet Pedro Ximenez-based Sherry-type wines (e.g. Montilla-Moriles) ars often served with and even on ice cream. No less an authority that Hugh Johnson suggests "fortified wine (e.g. Banyuls)" as a match for ice cream. Etc.

Also worth keeping in mind that many dessert wines are very appropriate as aperitifs or as accompaniments to first courses, especially those based on goose liver.

Admittedly it's a question of personal preference, but I beg to differ. Many people consider sweet wines to be woefully inappropriate as aperitifs, finding them strange in the context and feeling they have the undesired effect of cutting the appetite. When pairing a sweet wine with foie gras, care must be taken to avoid the cloying, rich-on-rich effect that very sweet and/or low acid wines will engender. These days, I much prefer dry reds (e.g. Médoc) or whites (e.g. rich Burgundy, Champagne) or barely off-dry whites like certain late-harvest Alsatians, Condrieu doux and "sec-tendre" style Loire chenins.

edit: spelling

Edited October 1, 2005 by carswell (log)

[Daniel Rogov]

Carswell, Hello.....

We might well argue that this is an issue of chacqun a son gout but in this case taste and definition seem to be divided along national lines - North Americans and those in the UK taking your point of view, those on the Continent mine. I do know that this is a fun source of conversation/argument/interpretation between me and several of my English colleagues.

I may not always agree with but will not contest the validity of definitions from sources such as the Oxford Companion to wine but I will tend to ignore dictionary definitions, no matter how sophisticated the dictionary. As one does not turn to dictionaries for in depth analysis of terms from mathematics or physics nor should one do so for terms in the arts, the culinary realm or wine.

As to matching dessert wines with ice cream - no problem at all with me. As to matching them with chocolate - well, I'll opt for tarte tatin.

Edited October 1, 2005 by Daniel Rogov (log)

[divalasvegas]

Although I generally prefer cheese and sesame-glazed walnuts with a port-style wine, this is exactly the kind of dessert and dessert wine pairing I would enjoy.  The wine might have been a late harvest style, as it sounds as though it retained some exuberant fruit and not ripened to that pruny, raisiny level found in many ports.  And a lemon tart with nuts and huckleberries would mirror the flavors in the port while providing enough acidity to refresh the palate.  So a diner would take a bite of tart-sweet, then a sip of sweet-tart, and feel like starting all over again.  To me, that is the goal of any food and wine pairing!

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That's exactly the taste experience I had RebelRose; you've described it perfectly. I recently achieved the opposite results a couple of months ago when I ordered an apple tarte (served cold with ice cream, but that's another issue) and definitely the wrong dessert wine. The waiter, though very nice, didn't have a clue as to which dessert wine I should order and just kept saying that they were all "good." I believe the word tawny was part of the name of the wine, so I winged it. Bad choice. The wonderful pairing of the other dessert/wine I described above was not realized here. The fruity qualities of the wine did not blend at all with the apple flavor and I had to finish the dessert with coffee and the wine by itself. The word tawny seemed to imply something more caramel-like.

Since wrong pairings are a total waste of money and an unhappy ending to a meal, I've been looking into various wine pairing guides online. I found a website with some interesting resources.

Food and Wine Guide

There a several links on this site. The one called Allied Domecq Wine's Food and Wine Pairing I found (at least to my novice's eye) particularly informative, although of course they're only suggesting wines from their winery. At least I hope it will help me avoid throwing money down the drain. All opinions, suggestions, guidance are deeply appreciated.

[Boris_A]

Some of the Alsatians Vendange Tardive or Sélection des Grains Nobles are rather a vinous Caterpillar than a "Little black dress or just an accessory", IMHO. They belong to the greatest wines I ever tasted.

[Rebel Rose]

Hmm. I think I lost something in translation here. By caterpillar, do you mean a wine that matures from something simple into something beautiful and delicate before your eyes?

[Boris_A]

Hmm.  I think I lost something in translation here.  By caterpillar, do you mean a wine that matures from something simple into something beautiful and delicate before your eyes?

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Actually, I wanted to say that I think some of these VT and SGN dessert wines are as muscular as Caterpillar bulldozers.

[Rebel Rose]

Actually, I wanted to say that I think some of these VT and SGN dessert wines are as muscular as Caterpillar bulldozers.

Ah! Then we are indeed talking about two very different animals.