kabab chini / Star Anise

[liv4fud]

mostly brought up on vegetarian Indian food, I would like to know the wonderful uses of the two spices.

I did find out from internet searches that kabab chini is all spice

but have not much clue how to use them in Indian cooking

p.s. I am a converted non-veggie so feel free to encompass meats in your suggestions

[waaza]

mostly brought up on vegetarian Indian food, I would like to know the wonderful uses of the two spices.

I did find out from internet searches that kabab chini is all spice

but have not much clue how to use them in Indian cooking

<snip>

yes, allspice is kababchini, suggesting its Chinese origins (like cassia, dalchini)

Most of the essential oil is eugenol, the main component of cloves. Infact, if raw allspice is bitten into, all one can taste is the eugenol (with the characteristic numbing, like cloves). So, if you have cloves, there is little, if any reason to use allspice. It is supposed to smell like a combination of cloves, cinnamon and nutmeg, but I don't get those flavours. It has also been suggested as a 'substitute' for garam masala, I don't see that either.

As far as star anise is concerned, it has a darker flavour than fennel (Indian aniseed), and is much more suited to being mixed with cassia, liquorice and black cardamom. If adding an aniseed flavour to dishes at the oil stage, star anise is useful, as it is less likely to burn, so that the all-important oil extraction can take place.

Needless to say it goes well with pork, as the Chinese know very well. It is a component of Chinese five spice, along with fennel, so maybe fennel has something else to give in terms of flavour.

HTH

cheers

Waaza

[Milagai]

mostly brought up on vegetarian Indian food, I would like to know the wonderful uses of the two spices.

I did find out from internet searches that kabab chini is all spice

but have not much clue how to use them in Indian cooking

p.s. I am a converted non-veggie so feel free to encompass meats in your suggestions

←

no idea if this helps, but occasionally when i've run

out of garam masala, i sub allspice.....

since there is a fair variation in recipes and flavors

of garam masala, i can sort of get away with it...

milagai

[liv4fud]

wazaa / milagai - are you suggesting that the single all-spice is able to substitute the whole mixture of garam masala??

WOW! there is a lot for me to learn...

[Pan]

West Indians use allspice a whole lot more than Indians do, but I don't find that its taste is in any way identical to cloves, and I think both spices have merit.

[Episure]

I dont know why I do this but I have to use kabab chini in shikampuri and shami kababs. A long time ago I had eaten these kababs in the back lanes of Jama Masjid Delhi and whenever I try to re-engineer those kababs, the recipe shouts out for this spice.

Star Anise is also called Badian and less frequently Anasphool. I find that it makes a great addition to Pulaos, Biryanis and Indo chinese recipes. It goes very well in some Indian sweet preparations but I must be the the only person on this planet to do this, so will have to wait for more people to follow this usage before it becomes acceptable.

[Milagai]

wazaa / milagai - are you suggesting that the single all-spice is able to substitute the whole mixture of garam masala??

WOW! there is a lot for me to learn...

←

it's only me who does this.

i don't think it's a widely accepted use....

and like i said, since garam masala recipes vary a lot

and since allspice has a more complex flavor

(not just one note), it sort of kind of maybe

can substitute in a very great pinch....

like episure, i'll have to wait until the

rest of the world catches on to this before

suggesting it widely....

milagai

[waaza]

wazaa / milagai - are you suggesting that the single all-spice is able to substitute the whole mixture of garam masala?? <snip>

no, I said I don't see why it is a substitute for garam masala, it is a poor substitute for cloves, IMHO. With all that eugenol (65 - 90%) I can't see how anything else would be detected, flavourwise. see Spices, Gernot Katzer

Garam masala would have to have substantial amounts of cardamom and cassia, and a dash of mace as well. If you just added allspice, you would get a hint of clove flavour, that is all. The name allspice was given way back in history, and the name has stuck, it is not a modern suggestion that it is a substitute for 'mixed spice', garam masala, or whatever.

cheers

Waaza

Suresh, how do you add your star anise to your desserts? do you extract it?

[Milagai]

wazaa / milagai - are you suggesting that the single all-spice is able to substitute the whole mixture of garam masala?? <snip>

no, I said I don't see why it is a substitute for garam masala, it is a poor substitute for cloves, IMHO. With all that eugenol (65 - 90%) I can't see how anything else would be detected, flavourwise. see Spices, Gernot Katzer

Garam masala would have to have substantial amounts of cardamom and cassia, and a dash of mace as well. If you just added allspice, you would get a hint of clove flavour, that is all. The name allspice was given way back in history, and the name has stuck, it is not a modern suggestion that it is a substitute for 'mixed spice', garam masala, or whatever.

cheers

Waaza

Waaza: i am very aware that the name allspice is misleading

and it's not really a sub for garam masala!

and allspice is not just clove tasting,

it is definitely clove plus.

like i said, in a pinch, blah blah

milagai

Suresh, how do you add your star anise to your desserts? do you extract it?

←

[Episure]

like episure, i'll have to wait until the

rest of the world catches on to this before

suggesting it widely....

milagai

←

Suresh, how do you add your star anise to your desserts? do you extract it?

←

Waaza

Star Anise is a hardy spice and doesnt lend it's flavour notes easily but a little goes a long way so I just add a piece into preparations like :

Thandai

Kulfi

Kheer

Caramel custard

and some more stuff that I wont bore you all with.

In my opinion Star Anise adds a sweet spicy profile just like Cinnamon does.

[anil]

For Star Anise - Just drop one while making rice. I put one star anise, one bay leaf and two green elichi when I cook rice (I only cook rice - nothing else )

[liv4fud]

got a packet of kabab chini and star anise along with a package of chicken biryani

will have to find time during the week to try it out

the kabab chini does smell a lot like cloves and star anise a lot like fennel. we use a lot of coriander seed and jeera seed mixture (dhania-jeera powder). was always bothered by the earthiness. plan to use star anise to lift the fragrance up a bit.

[waaza]

got a packet of kabab chini and star anise along with a package of chicken biryani

will have to find time during the week to try it out

the kabab chini does smell a lot like cloves and star anise a lot like fennel.  we use a lot of coriander seed and jeera seed mixture (dhania-jeera powder).  was always bothered by the earthiness.  plan to use star anise to lift the fragrance up a bit.

←

my view as well, for the former spices.

As for dhania/jeera, they are supposed to be ground together, as this is said to impart a further flavour. It is difficult to work out what that might be from the chief constituents of those spices, why grinding them together should produce different flavours eludes me (at the moment!). However, they are two of a few spices which change flavour when roasted (even heated, even stored for long enough) so there may be truth in it somewhere.

Not sure about 'chicken biryani spice mix', as there are quite a few different chicken biryanis, I would suggest keeping to the original recipes.

Cheers

Waaza

[liv4fud]

regarding the dhania/jeera mix, I was informed by the elders in our families that just like the garam masala, chai masala, that was supposed to be the flavor of the individual home.

you hit the mark with the roasting comment as in our family they would roast the two and combine a much greater portion of coriander and a lesser portion of jeera with a teeny weeny bit of fennel also roasted. some homes mixed all 3 in equal proportions while others would omit fennel completely

the spice mix was an idea I picked up during the staging gig - it was one of the 'when in a pinch' type of recipes. the chef suggested use the spice mix once by yourself, make the entire dish. find out what you would like to change. and modify accordingly with fresh spcies / blends. time's always in a pinch during the week so I was thinking of trying it out on 2 days of the week.

but no way I am going on shamdra lee's way...