Upcoming Paris Trip

[docsconz]

I will be in Paris for five days and nights with my wife and three boys, all of whom are good eaters. Obviously there are innumerable choices for dining. With the help of this Forum I have narrowed our choices down to a select group. Now I have some specific dilemmas that I would love to hear members opinions on.

We will be staying in an apartment the 1oth Arrondissemnt near the St. Martin Canal. After our late afternoon arrival from Barcelona, I would prefer to explore the canal and the neighborhood and eat realatively locally. Choices for that evening include Aux Lyonnais, Chez Michel and Chez Denise. Preferences and why, please?

One day will be spent around the Musee D'Orsay and the Eiffel Tower. My thoughts for lunch are L'Astrance (reservation pending) or Au Bon Accuiiel. Your thoughts?

A day in Versailles. Picnic lunch - suggestions for what?

On one evening I hope to be dining at Pierre Gagnaire. What should we do for lunch that day? We will most likely be around the Louvre or Notre Dame. Possibilities include L'Atelier de Joel Robuchon early if I can get an 11:30 reservation, falafel in the Marais at L'As du Falafel followed by ice cream at Berthillon, Ze Kitchen Gallerie or Mon Vieil Ami. This is probably the most difficult decision of all.

One day will be spent shopping and chocolating mostly in the 6th and 7th. A light lunch would probably be best here. Thoughts?

Two nights still require dinner plans. Possibilities include the remainder of the Aux Lyonnais, Chez Michel and Chez Denise trio as well as L'Entredgeu, Le Comptoir or Dominique Bouchet. Please consider the logistics. Our nearest Metro stop is Goncourt, but Republique is also nearby.

[Felice]

I will be in Paris for five days and nights with my wife and three boys, all of whom are good eaters. Obviously there are innumerable choices for dining. With the help of this Forum I have narrowed our choices down to a select group. Now I have some specific dilemmas that I would love to hear members opinions on.

We will be staying in an apartment the 1oth Arrondissemnt near the St. Martin Canal. After our late afternoon arrival from Barcelona, I would prefer to explore the canal and the neighborhood and eat realatively locally. Choices for that evening include Aux Lyonnais, Chez Michel and Chez Denise. Preferences and why, please?

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If you want to explore your neighborhood, I wouldn’t necessarily go for any of the restaurants above, as they are not really in the same neighborhood as where you are staying. Chez Michel is in the same arrondissement, but it’s a pretty good walk and probably not an all that charming one. But, it’s a great restaurant, so if you don’t mind going a bit farther out from the canal it would be a good choice or save it for another night.

The area that surrounds the canal has many restaurants, many of them fairly new, but most are not in the same league as the ones you list and are going to be more casual/funky type places.

The Verre Volé is great wine bar, but probably not really what you are looking for.

The Hotel du Nord, which is along the Canal, has recently been transformed into a trendy looking restaurant, but I have no idea how the food is. I know it got written up lately.

The Villaret would be a good choice if you want to stay in the immediate area. It’s only a short walk from metro Goncourt and when I was there last, which was over a year ago, the food was really excellent.

Has anyone been to Le Chateaubriand? The closest metro is Goncourt and I just read a favorable review but haven’t been. It seems to be a good neighborhood bistro.

A day in Versailles. Picnic lunch - suggestions for what?

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For picnic type stuff you could try Les Vivres, an adorable epicerie in the 9th. Or I think Chez Michel does picnic stuff to take away as well.

Two nights still require dinner plans. Possibilities include the remainder of the Aux Lyonnais, Chez Michel and Chez Denise trio as well as L'Entredgeu, Le Comptoir or Dominique Bouchet. Please consider the logistics. Our nearest Metro stop is Goncourt, but Republique is also nearby.

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I'm sure all of these would be good choices. I really love Chez Michel and have been there many times, but never in the summer. For some reason it seems more like a winter place to me. I've been to Aux Lyonnais twice and think it is beautiful and the food was excellent both times. It's the kind of restaurant you imagine would be in Paris. As I said before I loved Le Comptoir and can't imagine that you would be disapointed. I've never been to Chez Denise or Dominique Bouchet however. Chez Denise seems like a lot of fun and I would love to try it.

You have a lot of great choices, I'm sure you are going to have an amazing trip.

[docsconz]

Felice, Thank you for your input. I don't mind venturing out a little ways from the neighborhood. I just don't feel like going all over Paris that night. Do you have any more info on the Villaret?

[Felice]

Felice, Thank you for your input. I don't mind venturing out a little ways from the neighborhood. I just don't feel like going all over Paris that night. Do you have any more info on the Villaret?

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I went well over a year and a half ago, so the details are fuzzy. I went with a French friend who lives nearby and at the time I don't think I had heard much about it. It seemed like an unassuming little neighborhood place but I remember thinking that the food was exceptionally good although I can't remember the details. I don't really remember the atmosphere being anything striking though. I think others have posted about it in the past, so hopefully someone can give more recent or complete review.

When are you coming to Paris? If it's soon, some places might be closed.

Edited to add:

I just did a search on egullet and found mixed reviews (surprise!) for La Villeret Here, but then Raisb in another thread said she had an excellent meal. Hopefully they can add more.

Edited July 31, 2005 by Felice (log)

[alexhills]

I had a really nice lunch at Villaret last month. 25 euro prix fixe, had a langoustine bisque and a poulet fermiere with Girolles, fun rasberry soup for dessert. Incredibly good value I thought. Modern, light, clean food. Not earth shattering but extremely enjoyable.

[greenwich st]

We just ate at Le Villaret a couple of weeks ago and really enjoyed it -- and I agree it's a very good value. I'm ashamed to admit that I haven't figure out how to link within this site, but if you're interested in our experience there, it's described under "Sunday Lunch in Paris".

[Bux]

The walk from Chez Michel in any direction is probably not charming in every direction and for some time. In fact, far less of Paris is charming for walking at night than it is by day. Shops are generally shuttered and except for those concentrations of brasseries and cafes, Paris is quiet at night. Late at night, the banks of the Seine, and I presume the Canal, are nice. The metro stops running shortly after midnight by the way, but it would be rare for a bistro dinner to end that late.

I have fond memories of a dinner at Chez Michel and of a lunch and dinner at Aux Lyonnais. Chez Denis has escaped us so far. I regret I've not spent enough time in Paris to know all the restauurants first hand. I've found Aux Lyonais the more exciting of the two, but I'd love to give them both another chance or two. I'm with Felice in that I don't see either as in your neighborhood although I've probably walked further from a restaurant to my hotel in the middle of the night. I very much like to take a long walk after dinner, even in dark boring neighborhoods.

I would eat lightly in the afternoon before any three star meal, or at least I would advise eating lightly. I give better advice than I set an example.

[docsconz]

I think I learned my lesson in Catalunya last year! Robuchon intrigues me in that I could probably limit the meal to just a few courses. Nevertheless our best bet may be the falafel and ice cream.

How difficult is it to get taxis upon leaving restaurants?

[Busboy]

I can only add that, as helpful as the information you'll get here will be, I hope that you'll spend a good deal of time wandering half-buzzed and aimlessly around the most beautful city in the world (as far as I know), rather than racking up an inflexible itinerary. It strikes me as almost the reverse of the Paris vibe to plan too closely -- so you get stuck with a cruddy meal, at least you weren't worrying about your reservation when you should have been sucking in everything "Winged Victory of Samothrace" had to offer!

Also, since you've got kids, take advantage of the fact that you are at the bread and cheese center of the world and picnic on the quais. Camp out south of Notre Dame, in the 5th, and have an after-dark picnic. Cheap, delicious and you'll never have a better view, ever, anywhere...and no worry about how the kids will behave.

[docsconz]

I can only add that, as helpful as the information you'll get here will be, I hope that you'll spend a good deal of time wandering half-buzzed and aimlessly around the most beautful city in the world (as far as I know), rather than racking up an inflexible itinerary.  It strikes me as almost the reverse of the Paris vibe to plan too closely -- so you get stuck with a cruddy meal, at least you weren't worrying about your reservation when you should have been sucking in everything "Winged Victory of Samothrace" had to offer!

Also, since you've got kids, take advantage of the fact that you are at the bread and cheese center of the world and picnic on the quais.  Camp out south of Notre Dame, in the 5th, and have an after-dark picnic.  Cheap, delicious and you'll never have a better view, ever, anywhere...and no worry about how the kids will behave.

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This is a true dilemma. I appreciate of what you speak and I should take it to heart. This is only my second time to Paris and the first for our kids (actually our 6yo was in the womb the first time) and there is so much to see, do and eat! Obviously we can't do it all and need to make some concessions - but what? This is my American Type A curse! Of course, part of my fun is planning.

We do want to see the major monuments (i.e. Tour Eiffel, Arc de Triomfe, Notre Dame, Versailles) as well as brief, focused visits to La Musee D'Orsay, La Musee Picasso and The Louvre. One other Museum I think the kids will enjoy is the Museum of Magic in the Marais. We considered The Catacombs and The Sewer Museum but these would be too much on top of everything else. Mostly though I want to savor the food. This includes restaurants, markets and shops. I do plan on cooking one or two evenings in the apartment. Perhaps my biggest dilemma is what to do about chocolate. I have grand ideas of taking parts of two days to sample a number of different chocolate producers in the 6th and 7th arrondissements. It is difficult to choose amongst them. I am afraid my list may be too much.

The above being said the only things that will be truly inflexible with our itinerary will be a few select restaurant reservations such as Gagnaire.

[menton1]

Paris is quiet at night

We must be talking about a different Paris than the one I know.

4th Arr: Rue du Temple is packed with locals at 11:30PM, cafes still going strong, and even a few of the little artisan shoppes are open.

6th Arr: St Germain des Pres is extremely lively, Blvd St Germain teeming, lots of locals, lots of tourists, many shops open after 11PM, Cafe de Flore and Deux Magots are packed.

3rd: Place de la Republique very lively, lots of bars going strong

1st and 8th are busy on many streets...

Of course, there are residential areas, as in any city, where the streets are "rolled up" and very quiet after 9-10PM; but Paris, in the right areas, rocks at night!

[Bux]

It's been my misfortune to find that the route between my hotel and my restaurant is often directly through some residential district where the sidewalks are all but rolled up. I'm not very familiar with the area in which John is stayiing. Felice offered hope there's a lively area, but she also acknowledged that it might not provide the sort of restaurant John wanted. The areas you mention don't seem to be a the path between the neighborhood in which John was staying and the restaurants he mentioned. My recollection of the restaurants was that they were not in areas that were so lively or interesting. I didn't say John couldn't find lively areas, but he also didn't seem to want to go too far out of his way that night. Of course Paris has a night life, just as Barcelona has sleepy residential areas at night.

[Felice]

It's been my misfortune to find that the route between my hotel and my restaurant is often directly through some residential district where the sidewalks are all but rolled up. I'm not very familiar with the area in which John is stayiing. Felice offered hope there's a lively area, but she also acknowledged that it might not provide the sort of restaurant John wanted. The areas you mention don't seem to be a the path between the neighborhood in which John was staying and the restaurants he mentioned. My recollection of the restaurants was that they were not in areas that were so lively or interesting. I didn't say John couldn't find lively areas, but he also didn't seem to want to go too far out of his way that night. Of course Paris has a night life, just as Barcelona has sleepy residential areas at night.

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It's just that there are areas in the 10th that are still a bit sketchy and if I were visiting Paris I would not want to be in them. Chez Michel is on a tiny street right in front of the Gare du Nord, which, like most train stations, seems to be crawling with unsavory characters at night. I don't think it's dangerous, but it's not the greatest area in Paris. Actually before I moved here several years ago, a guy tried to steal my friend's purse while we were on our way to Chez Michel and knocked her to the ground. I'm sure we looked clueless and of course it could happen anywhere, but it's just not the area I'd choose for a stroll.

The Canal is a great area and one that most visitors don't see because it's just become built up in the last few years. You won't be surrounded by tourists which is nice. I remember walking down the canal four years ago when I first got here and there wasn't much-one or two hip stores maybe--but now it's full of cafes, restaurants, etc. There is even a take-away ice cream stand now, if that tells you anything. Hopefully it won't get too built up and will retain it's charm.

As for taxis, you'll find them on most main streets, especially near metro stops. Your best bet is to look for a taxi stand rather than flagging one. And you should know that if you call a taxi ahead of time, they will start the meter from where they take the call, so it could be several euros before you get in the car.

[marlena spieler]

chez denise might be total fun for you, though it gets really busy. you gotta reserve! communal tables, like being in a french movie from a different time era......go late at night!

you know what might be fun, though its not a restaurant experience, is sunday mornings at the foot of the market at rue muffetard, next to the church, a group of people makes music and sings, old fashioned parisian music hall stuff, and sometimes there is dancing, and someone passes out sheet music to sing along to.....

[PS]

I must have been to Chez Michel five or six times now. In my (admittedly relatively limited) experience, it's been the most consistently good bistro of the new wave bistros, or whatever the accepted term for them is.

I've always approached it as a pedestrian, either from the metro at Gord du Nord, or on foot from our hotel - once through the Pigalle, once from the Opera and once from the Canal St Martin. None are particularly attractive approaches, but they are another side of Paris and interesting as comparisons to the more touristy areas. I've never felt threatened arriving in the early evening or departing at 11pm. If you don't like big rail terminals at night, there's always the Poisonniere Metro to the south, which allows you to head up by the St Vincent de Pau church.

You can get a hint of a feel for the area from the Bourne Identity. There's a scene where their mini is parked up in front of the Gare du Nord and a blink-and-you'll-miss-it scene where Jason Bourne makes a call from a payphone with Chez Michel's frontage in the background.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

I'll get on my favorite hobby horse one more time. Many of the new bistrots are in out of the way areas, and most are easily reachable by bus. Chez Michel, for instance, is served by bus numbers 43, 26, 42, 48 on rue Lafayette, by numbers 54, 56, 31, 30 on Blvd. Magenta. By served, I mean that these buses will bring you with a couple of blocks the restaurant on rue de Belzunce.

Note that many fewer buses run after 9pm, but that any restaurant will call a cab for you if you ask when paying the check.

Ask any metro ticket seller for a #2 grand plan lignes et rues which will guide you perfectly. I know many people who have, sadly, visited Paris dozens of times but still haven't a clue what knits the city together between metro stops, or what lies beyond their adventures on foot. Besides, buses are much less scuzzy than the metro!

[Busboy]

A good compromise between Type A micromanagement and free-spirit drifting - -and between formal fine dining and picnicking with the kids -- would be to commit John Whiting's excellent Paris Bistro Guide to memory and spend a few meals eating very well, informally.

I have only been to one of the places on the list, Au Petit Tonneau, but it would be hard to picture a place that was more French and more likely to welcome three small American children with a smile (and, it's in the 7th, not too far from the Musee d'Orsay, your chocolatiers and the Tour Eiffel), and the tripe sausage I ate was nothing if not authentic (and very good). If the rest of the places on the list are equally warm and tasty -- I suspect they are -- you can be assured of making the most of a Paris jaunt, food-wise -- with kids in tow.

Have a great trip!

[bushey]

Couple of thoughts, Doc.

The day you spend time at Musee d'Orsay and Eiffel Tower, what about lunch at one of Christian Constant's new places on rue St Dominique -- Cafe Constant or Les Fables de la Fontaine? It would be a shame to have to rush from either site for a reservation somewhere (though Astrance is just across the river from the Tour). Another option to consider is the Eiffel Tower at night, it's just beautiful. Similarly, the Arc de Triomphe is wonderful in the evening around dusk. You can climb the steps and watch the city light up.

For a five-day visit to the city you might want to reconsider the trip to Versailles. A friend went a few months ago with a couple for teenagers, and we had given her the same advice, which she wished afterwards she had taken. It's really an all-day visit and with so many other things for the kids to see, they felt the time could have been better spent in the city.

As for taxis upon leaving a restaurant, they will call and request one for you, if you like.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

I have only been to one of the places on the list, Au Petit Tonneau, but it would be hard to picture a place that was more French and more likely to welcome three small American children with a smile (and, it's in the 7th, not too far from the Musee d'Orsay, your chocolatiers and the Tour Eiffel), and the tripe sausage I ate was nothing if not authentic (and very good). 

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Au Petit Tonneau is a brilliant choice for a meal with children. Like visiting grandparents! And Boyer's andouillette was among the best I have ever been served. In addition, she came to our table to make sure that it was alright, so afraid that an American had misordered.

FWIW, I love Le Villeret, but don't think of it as a particularly interesting restaurant for a child. However they would indeed love the Sunday sing-a-longs at Mouffetard that Marlena wrote about.

[Bux]

. . . .

As for taxis, you'll find them on most main streets, especially near metro stops.  Your best bet is to look for a taxi stand rather than flagging one.  And you should know that if you call a taxi ahead of time, they will start the meter from where they take the call, so it could be several euros before you get in the car.

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Whatever Felice offers about Paris is from a knowing resident and worth taking under advisement. I'll add here that there are patches of Paris either devoid of taxi stands, or more likely just devoid of taxis at the stands late at night. Once late at night after dinner at l'Astrance, we crossed the river to experience the livelilness that was at the base of the Eiffel Tower, but the walk from there to the edge of the 6ième arrondissement was through largely deserted streets. The weaker members of our party soon longed for a taxi in spite of my opinion that we didn't have far to go. By luck we ran into one that was dropping someone off, but I wouldn't have counted on finding another for blocks.

I don't call many cabs in Paris, perhaps the experience of once noting that the final fare was far less than twice what the meter read upon entering has something to do with that. A call for a cab is not necessarily bound to be answered by a taxi anywhere near where you are.

[Bux]

. . . .  buses are much less scuzzy than the metro! 

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Nothing scuzzy about the metro, at least not from the perspective of one who habitually rides the NYC subways. I always enjoy riding the underground rapid transportation when I'm in a city for the first time. I've been know to ride in them just for the tourist experience. In Bilbao, the subway was designed by Foster, a leading British architect. Anyway, it'a slice of a city always worth seeing, at least at sometime that's neither rush hour or when it's deserted. At the same time, using the above ground public transportation system will allow you to see more of the city and get a better sense of the city as a whole. Buses in Paris run complex routes and it may be a bit easier to figure out how to get from here to there by metro, but it's hardly rocket science to learn how to use the buses.

[docsconz]

I am glad I asked! There really is some great advice on this thread. At this point my problem is not so much finding worthwhile restaurants, but deciding amongst them!

I have been to Versailles as has my wife. It is an incredible spectacle. I can take or leave a return visit, but my wife really wants the boys to see it. I see it as a good opportunity for apicnic with provisions picked up from a Paris market - most likely Marche' Bastille for the intended day. We also plan on having dinner at the apartment that evening.

I hope to visit L'Arc de Trionfe the evening we visit Gagnaire (I sure hope we get that reservation I requested!) although we will have to go back another time as well as two of the boys will be back at the apartment that evening. The explanation for this is that someone has to babysit our 6yo. Our eldest son will accompany my wife and I to El Bulli prior to the Paris part of our trip while the middle son stays with theyoungest. Turnabout is fair play so the tables will be reversed for Gagnaire. While our 6yo is good in restaurants and a good diner for a 6yo, at this point I would subject neither him, other diners nor my wallet to a dinner at a 3*. Hopefully, that will come later when it will be a more worthwhile experience for all concerned. Both the 15 and 14yo's have recently been to Alinea (the grand tour) and Moto in Chicago with extremely enthusiastic responses.

The main purpose for detaile organization is to provide a framework from within which I can identify priorities and work from there. It is good to have the framework, but spontaneity and the ability to respond to changing circumstances is an important component for getting the most out of a vacation.

While one can go to Paris without planning and stumble upon fantastic "discoveries" relatively easily, it is just as easy for the relatively uninitiated to stumble upon mediocrity. it is too exciting a culinary city to take that chance IMO. Perhaps someday if and when I know it well, I will be more comfortable with that approach (I can do that in NYC).

The discussion re: metro vs taxi vs bus vs walking is particularly interesting and useful. I don't imagine that we will be out particularly late at night with our 6yo in tow although i'm sure the teens would love the Paris nightlife. Our 15yo can easily pass for much older but they will have to abide by our schedule especially since I also to get started reasonably early in the mornings.

As of this moment I am leaning towards visiting Aux Lyonnnais on the first night, lunch at L'Astrance on day two with dinner perhaps at Chez Michel. Day three will be Versailles (pending convincing my wife to stay in the city and forgoing the Palais ) with dinner at home. Day 4 perhaps falafel in the Marais with dinner at Pierre Gagnaire (eat-in for the poor unfortunate left-behinds). Day 5, our last full day will be a chocolate extravaganza throughout the day with perhaps a light lunch at Delicabar. Dinner at this point is wide open. Possibilities include Chez Denise, cooking in, Mon Veili Ami, Dominique Bouchet or L'Entredgeu. At this point I am perhaps leaning most heavily toward Chez Denise. Day 6, alas, we head home.

[Bux]

. . . .

While one can go to Paris without planning and stumble upon fantastic "discoveries" relatively easily, it is just as easy for the relatively uninitiated to stumble upon mediocrity. it is too exciting a culinary city to take that chance IMO. Perhaps someday if and when I know it well, I will be more comfortable with that approach (I can do that in NYC).

. . . .

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It's always possible that I was just so much less exposed to good food forty years ago, but it seemed as if it was impossible to have a mediocre meal in Paris, let alone a bad one. Today it's not at all that unlikely a shot in the dark won't make you wish you were at your local pizzeria or burger joint at home. Paris abounds with good choices, but it helps to know them in advance.

[porkpa]

Just a thought. Since you and your wife have already been to Versailles, which is admittedly a grand spectacle, might I suggest that you consider substituting Claude Monet's gardens at Giverny for that day. I have been to both. In my opinion, Giverny "kick's ass" in comparison. I realize its an apples vs oranges type of thing but in my opinion Giverny in bloom rivals anyplace I've ever been.

Porkpa

[Bux]

Mrs. B and I have spent some enjoyable time in the Zoo in th bois de Vincennes to the east of Paris. I'm not sure if we reached it by bus or metro. Within the city limits, I consider the Parc André Citröen almost as worth experiencing as Notre Dame and the Tour Eiffel, one step down from Ste. Chapelle and one up from the Arc de Triomphe. The Viaduc des Arts is another worthwhile stroll. The Parc Citröen however, is the one that might best suit a picnic. Then again, I don't recall a lot of shade. There was a water fountain that I hope my grandson will enjoy playing in someday.