Table conversation at restaurantsWe were talking a

[tony h]

you must have amazing self-control.  you can't see how sometimes you can't help but hear?

I was actually be deadly serious - I don't listen to others private conversations.  Yes - sometimes I can't help but "hear" what others are saying - but I don't "listen" i.e. take it in.   Oh dear, maybe I am a bit weird.

[Miss J]

you must have amazing self-control.  you can't see how sometimes you can't help but hear?

I was actually be deadly serious - I don't listen to others private conversations.  Yes - sometimes I can't help but "hear" what others are saying - but I don't "listen" i.e. take it in.   Oh dear, maybe I am a bit weird.

No, you've just managed to avoid Standard Egullet Sillyness. Though how you've managed to avoid contamination so far, I'm not entirely sure.  

Miss J

[Wilfrid]

No, fair enough Blind Lemon.  I am sure I was brought up not to eavesdrop, and I think it is often wrong to do so.  I have overheard plenty of things I wasn't meant to.  But I do.  You have the moral high ground!

[Priscilla]

I consider eavesdropping one of life's little pleasures.  (Do not tell my Mother this.)  And it is so interesting, I think, how it varies among restaurants--how conversational culture varies from place to place.

A restaurant we have frequented for years, an outwardly unprepossessing Japanese place with impeccable fish and everything else, has historically provided the most memorable  eavesdroppage.  And not just at the sushi bar, where the magical bonhomie often encourages eavesdropping to morph into actual conversation between strangers, which is nice, yes, but shoots one's eavesdropping straight to hell.

Where have you found the best eavesdroppage?

Priscilla

[tommy]

i don't think this thread is about "eavesdropping", per se.

[Priscilla]

i don't think this thread is about "eavesdropping", per se.

Um, you mean people are going off-topic?  What should we do about this?

[tommy]

Um, you mean people are going off-topic?  What should we do about this?

no silly.  i'm just saying that the incident wasn't an "eavesdropping" incident as much as an "over-hearing" incident.  the distinction is probably important to the discussion.

[Priscilla]

Um, you mean people are going off-topic?  What should we do about this?

no silly.  i'm just saying that the incident wasn't an "eavesdropping" incident as much as an "over-hearing" incident.  the distinction is probably important to the discussion.

Hmmm.  Eavesdropping connoting purposeful, possibly criminal but at least impolite listening in, overhearing connoting what-can-I-do-these-tables-are-so-effing-close-together-I-can-taste-their-food utter and complete blamelessness?  Or, opposite?

You are correct, Tommy.  We need to define our terms.

Priscilla

[Liza]

What about instances where the people at the next table are boring? Would it be impolite to suggest they discuss something interesting?  

[tommy]

i remember a time at ruby foo's in NYC, where the tables are painfully close...

i was with a female friend of mine, and we were going on and on, being our boisterous loud selves.  the couple next to us were *extremely* quiet.  i mean, they didn't say a peep for the first 15 minutes they were sat there.  eventually, we engaged them, and they admitted that they had been sitting there the whole time being entertained by our conversation.  they made no apologizies for their eavesdropping!  they said we were "like something out of Seinfeld".  but they were from, like, the midwest or something.

priscilla, rereading this thread i see that you thought my "eavesdropping" comment as directed towards you.  it was actually directed towards BLH, as he brought it up.  feel free to discuss anything you'd like.  no need to clear with me anymore.  

[Priscilla]

What about instances where the people at the next table are boring? Would it be impolite to suggest they discuss something interesting?  

I have asked to be moved to a different table when saddled with boring eavesdroppage.

Tommy I didn't think you meant me.  I think you are correct  in pointing out mushy terminology hindering productive discussion.

Isn't that what you were pointing out?

Priscilla

[John Whiting]

After all that kafuffle, jaybee came up with the most rational response to his own anecdote. The lady in question was lucky to have had him at the next table, and not the whole eGullet managerie; she'd be in analysis for the rest of her life!

[jaybee]

Am I alone in not eavesdropping on other peoples conversations?  It just seems such a rude thing to do.

Really? Oh dear. I'm the lowest of the low.  I can't imagine not "overhearing" the conversations of others, especially if they're interesting.  For me, "other" people and what they do and say are more than half the fun in the world. The other half is divided among sex, food, music and driving a great car. Remember that wonderful scene in Woody Allen's Manahttan, when he pulls Marshall McCluhan from behind a billboard to put down some pompous guy spouting off about his work?  Oh what a fantasy.

[Tonyfinch]

My wife and I were shown to a table next to a couple who had clearly been there for some time.She was in tears and he looked angry.One minute after we sat down she suddenly burst out with:

"YOU SHAT ON MY MOTHER AND NOW YOU'RE SHITTING ON ME. AND IF I GIVE YOU THE CHANCE YOU'LL GRIND MY FACE INTO THE GROUND WITH YOUR HEEL!"

As we were contemplating these...er.....interesting images,she stood up and walked out. Monsieur sat there for a full minute then turned ,looked straight at me and said "Fuck it!" He then also got up and disappeared. My wife and I couldn't decide whether we were sad or glad that they'd gone.

[John Whiting]

My wife and I couldn't decide whether we were sad or glad that they'd gone.

Did they leave any food? Was it good?  

[Basildog]

Reminds me of the time we had 2 couples dining together at our place.One couple had obviously had a row before arriving at the mood was dark all evening.She makes a grand exit with the words "Fuck you to hell !".He sits for awhile, contemplating whether to follow or not. He leaves, returns 5 mins later with no wife. She returns 10 mins later with the words "and i,ll have the fucking car keys !"

[Wilfrid]

Ah, happy memories.  

When I was younger, I ate dinner in Rules on the strength of a returned favorite ridden by Lester Piggott.  Couple opposite me were enjoying a lavish feast, which the gentleman continued right through to digestifs and a selection from the cigar humidor.  He then announced he was dumping her.  What a strange, almost sadistic way to do it!  My goodness, were there tears before bed-time, or what?

[Basildog]

Maybe  it was his idea of a condemed womans last meal?

[lxt]

Ironically, jaybee’s post was the last one I read several hours before the sad news of my own loss had arrived.  Interestingly, not only haven’t my views on the subject not changed, they’ve been strengthened.

Am I too old fashioned or retro to suggest that mourning should be observed in private? Or that in our modern days, the perception has changed toward having fun as a means to cope with the stress of a loss?

I can hardly imagine myself going to a restaurant unless I am certain that neither my companions nor other patrons will be affected by my personal circumstances.  (Assuming that a restaurant is still viewed as a place where people are to have good times).  Each of us requires a different length of time for healing. Should one decide to submit himself to a restaurant endeavor at a time of personal grief, it becomes his personal responsibility to be tolerant of the surroundings without placing the burden on “society”.  Perhaps it is just a question of manners or…politics?

Forgive me for being insensitive, but I hardly experience any sympathy toward a woman who violated someone else’s privacy and made his dinner less enjoyable.

Quote: Wilfrid

“But, yes, yes we do listen, and many of my own dinner table conversations are actually about conversations we have just overheard. “

Several years ago, we had a memorable lunch where none of us uttered a word.  Somehow I believe our table wasn’t the only one involved in the enchanting and quite personal (but not offensive) details of the sex life of a young lady who occupied an adjacent table.  As appalling as it may sound to a well-mannered some of us, I have to admit that the enjoyment was such that it resulted in our leaving an extra 5% for the tip.  

Jaybee, Wilfrid you are just perfect dining companions.  There will never be an awkward moment at your table.  If there’d be nothing to say, there’d always be others to overhear  .

[John Whiting]

Education is the art of overhearing. The most useful things we learn are not those which are told us by someone whose intention is to indoctrinate; rather, they are those insights which are revealed to us through inadvertent honesty.

[Ruby]

I don't believe it's for any one of us to judge whether the woman near Jaybee's table was right or wrong. She was grieving which is a very personal matter for each individual. We don't know of her circumstances prior to her arrival at the restaurant. Maybe this was the first night she was going out to dinner to start a period of adjustment to daily life. Instead of perceiving that she had no right to ask Jaybee's table to tone down the subject of death, maybe the subject itself was inappropriate at the table especially if discussed in a humorous manner. Yes, we have freedom of speech but sometimes a little empathy for others needs to be mixed in with the speech.

In the Jewish religion, we sit Shiva - a seven-day period of formal mourning that's observed after the funeral of a close relative. Of course the grieving process takes much longer than seven days. We have hearts and souls and memories.

Here's an interesting website I found about grieving.

http://www.goodgrief.org/grief/rituals.html

[lxt]

Education is the art of overhearing. The most useful things we learn are not those which are told us by someone whose intention is to indoctrinate; rather, they are those insights which are revealed to us through inadvertent honesty.

Very perceptive, John.

Unrelated wisdom:

The history of man’s attempt to communicate with his fellow man has been paralleled by another history–that of man’s attempt to overhear this communication.

[John Whiting]

lxt, shall we form a wisdom cartel? Maybe we could corner the market!