Ceviche/Seviche

[Jaymes]

The lime does NOT kill the parasites. Yes, you have to be careful.

[Peter the eater]

If one is making cerviche at home, does one have to worry about parasites the way one does with sushi, or does the lime juice take care of that?

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You're not making it with say, fish from Lake Ontario right? Given that most (if not all) of our available ocean fish has been frozen at some point, I wouldn't be that worried over the parasites. However, cod isn't exactly a species that I'd choose for this either.

I have a mental image of a beautifully prepared Lake Ontario coho salmon ceviche in a crystal goblet . . . with a two foot lamprey still attached.

I have had great meals at home by "cooking" raw seafood in an "acid bath" although I don't think I have ever tried it with fresh water fish. I generally slice the stuff super thin so I would probably see most parasites if they are present.

[SundaySous]

I have a mental image of a beautifully prepared Lake Ontario coho salmon ceviche in a crystal goblet . . . with a two foot lamprey still attached.

Now that's what we need around the Great Lakes a really good eal recipe. That and one for Asian Carp soon to be coming to a Great Lake near you.

[maggiethecat]

I have eaten ceviche exactly once in my life, at Frontera Grill in the packed Saturday-night bar waiting for a table. My now son-in-law chose it from the apps menu, and we balanced it on an elbow or a barstool -- the joint was that crowded.

It was mind bending, and this from a woman who holds to the shamefully gauche position that most is fish better cooked (or smoked) than raw. I don't know what Rick Bayless did, but the ceviche was limey, fresh in the mouth, beautifully textured and maybe, maybe tequilaized.

And my digestive system survived. Of course, Frontera probably turned this over like mad.

[melkor]

I have eaten ceviche exactly once in my life, at Frontera Grill in the packed Saturday-night bar waiting for a table. My now son-in-law chose it from the apps menu, and we balanced it on an elbow or a barstool -- the joint was that crowded.

It was mind bending, and this from a woman who holds to the shamefully gauche position that most fish better cooked (or smoked) than raw. I don't know what Rick Bayless did, but the ceviche was limey, fresh in the mouth, beautifully textured and maybe, maybe tequilaized.

And my digestive system survived. Of course, Frontera probably turned this over like mad.

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Ya know... Chicago has a whole slew of places that do a good job with raw fish...

[Adam Balic]

Where are all the San Franciscans? Ceviche has been an institution in the city as long as I can remember.

All the best seafood restaurants have always served it. I don't think anyone in SF would claim that it originated there, but if asked most would ascribe the origin as Italian.

Come on city residents lets hear from you.

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You're talking about California? I lived in San Francisco for more than 20 years and never noticed that the "best" seafood restaurants served it. It's popular, naturally, at Mexican and South American restaurants, but that's all that I saw. And I've never heard anyone claim it was Italian.

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I would guess that there is a confusion between "Escabeche" and "Ceviche" (the Wikipedia entry for the former is a case in point), or that the two dishes have blended over the years. Variations of escabeche exist all arounf the Med. (sometimes with name variations, sometime with local names) and preserving fish cooked fish in an acid is a pretty global technique (Obviously Ceviche isn't cooked in the conventional sense).

Oddly enough the origin of "Ceviche" is always given as a native Peruvian dish, but I would guess that the name of the dish at least must be related to the Spanish "Escabeche" which is a common cooking technique for fish and poultry. I'm not sure on this point, but I would think that citrus would have been introduced by the Spanish, so it would have to be a post-conquest dish?

[Domestic Goddess]

In the Philippines, we have our own version of the cerviche, called kinilaw. Spanish, portuguese and mexican tradesmen/sailors have brought the dish to my country during the galleon trade in the 1600's. There are different versions of the kinilaw, from simply cleaning and marinating the fish in cane vinegar to the addition of coconut milk. Kinilaw can be made from tuna, cod, flying fish (my mom's favorite), even big anchovies (my favorite). Of course, the anchovies are beheaded, gutted and filleted.

For my mom's recipe for kinilaw, I'd like to share Robyn's link to her blogsite EatingAsia. She and her hubby had the fortune of having my mom prepare kinilaw for them. The Kindness of Strangers (Kinilaw recipe included)

For me, kinilaw is best eaten with grilled pork chops or pork ribs and steamed rice. By the beach, with your hands.

[Jaymes]

In the Philippines, we have our own version of the cerviche, called kinilaw. Spanish, portuguese and mexican tradesmen/sailors have brought the dish to my country during the galleon trade in the 1600's. There are different versions of the kinilaw, from simply cleaning and marinating the fish in cane vinegar to the addition of coconut milk. Kinilaw can be made from tuna, cod, flying fish (my mom's favorite), even big anchovies (my favorite). Of course, the anchovies are beheaded, gutted and filleted.

For my mom's recipe for kinilaw, I'd like to share Robyn's link to her blogsite EatingAsia. She and her hubby had the fortune of having my mom prepare kinilaw for them. The Kindness of Strangers (Kinilaw recipe included)

For me, kinilaw is best eaten with grilled pork chops or pork ribs and steamed rice. By the beach, with your hands. 

Thanks for that. I used to live in the Philippines and remember well the kalamansi. When we moved to Tucson, I asked at our local nursery if they had ever heard of them and was told that in the US, those delicious small citrus fruits are called calamondin oranges. So I grew two bushes in order to have a ready supply.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Jaymes (log)

[Domestic Goddess]

Jaymes, I am so envious of you. Kinilaw is not kinilaw without the very important addition of calamansi. Here in Korea, I'd had to settle for calamansi in powdered form or just plain lemon or lime juice. Wish I had a big plant like what we had back in Manila and just harvest the fruit when we need it for kinilaw or the ever present dip of soysauce and vinegar+calamansi.

[Jaymes]

Jaymes, I am so envious of you. Kinilaw is not kinilaw without the very important addition of calamansi. Here in Korea, I'd had to settle for calamansi in powdered form or just plain lemon or lime juice. Wish I had a big plant like what we had back in Manila and just harvest the fruit when we need it for kinilaw or the ever present dip of soysauce and vinegar+calamansi.

Are you sure you can't grow one there? I've grown various citrus plants all over the world. You might have to take it inside in the winter, but I'll bet you could grow one. Next time you go home, take a couple of the fruits back with you. God knows they have plenty of seeds!!

They're really pretty plants as you know. In the US, they're sold as "ornamental citrus," and as a houseplant in cooler climates. I was told by a nurseryman that "nobody grows them for the fruit because it's so small - the plants are popular because they're pretty and smell nice and they're easy to grow."

I'd recommend you give it a try. Whacha got to lose?

Calamondin Orange

Edited August 17, 2007 by Jaymes (log)

[Josefinajoisey]

At a local Peruvian restaurant in Nj, I've had the ceviche served with a couple of big chunks of white and sweet potato to temper the citrus. I just love it, but wouldn't attempt to make it myself. It's more fun to go out. (in this instance, anyway)

[Adam Balic]

Jaymes, I am so envious of you. Kinilaw is not kinilaw without the very important addition of calamansi. Here in Korea, I'd had to settle for calamansi in powdered form or just plain lemon or lime juice. Wish I had a big plant like what we had back in Manila and just harvest the fruit when we need it for kinilaw or the ever present dip of soysauce and vinegar+calamansi.

Are you sure you can't grow one there? I've grown various citrus plants all over the world. You might have to take it inside in the winter, but I'll bet you could grow one. Next time you go home, take a couple of the fruits back with you. God knows they have plenty of seeds!!

They're really pretty plants as you know. In the US, they're sold as "ornamental citrus," and as a houseplant in cooler climates. I was told by a nurseryman that "nobody grows them for the fruit because it's so small - the plants are popular because they're pretty and smell nice and they're easy to grow."

I'd recommend you give it a try. Whacha got to lose?

Calamondin Orange

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They are very hardy, in Australia they have been grown for years under the name of "Kumquats", now that true Kumquats are being sold they are marketed as "Australian Kumquats". The make superb marmalade.

[Jaymes]

Jaymes, I am so envious of you. Kinilaw is not kinilaw without the very important addition of calamansi. Here in Korea, I'd had to settle for calamansi in powdered form or just plain lemon or lime juice. Wish I had a big plant like what we had back in Manila and just harvest the fruit when we need it for kinilaw or the ever present dip of soysauce and vinegar+calamansi.

Are you sure you can't grow one there? I've grown various citrus plants all over the world. You might have to take it inside in the winter, but I'll bet you could grow one. Next time you go home, take a couple of the fruits back with you. God knows they have plenty of seeds!!

They're really pretty plants as you know. In the US, they're sold as "ornamental citrus," and as a houseplant in cooler climates. I was told by a nurseryman that "nobody grows them for the fruit because it's so small - the plants are popular because they're pretty and smell nice and they're easy to grow."

I'd recommend you give it a try. Whacha got to lose?

Calamondin Orange

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They are very hardy, in Australia they have been grown for years under the name of "Kumquats", now that true Kumquats are being sold they are marketed as "Australian Kumquats". The make superb marmalade.

Now that I think back, I had gone into that nursery trying to ascertain if calamondin was the same thing as calamansi and when I asked the fellow if the calamondin plant got fruit he first said, "Yes, but it's not edible." I said, "Not edible?" and he said, "Well, I guess it's edible but nobody eats it, it's too sour."

I told him if they were the fruit I thought they were, they were delicious when used like lemons and limes. In the Philippines, the people make calamansi-ade...like lemonade and limeade.

And ceviche, of course.

[Adam Balic]

Are they used at the green or orange stage in Korea? They are commonly used in Nonya cooking in the green state like this. A lot of english language books translates them as "limes", which they don't really taste like and causes problems with the recipes due to the difference in size of the two fruits ("use the juice of five limes" for instance).

[Domestic Goddess]

Now that you guys mention that calamansi can be grown in countries that have 4 seasons, I'll have my dad mail me calamansi seeds for me to grow and propagate here. I'll be planting mine in a big jar and letting it stay out in the veranda. We live on the 9th floor of this apartment building and have no community gardens below.

Calamansi has always been used in its green state. If you look at my first post in this topic, the picture in the article/blog link, the calamansi slice is definitely green. For the Philippine cerviche (kinilaw), the calamansi is added to the kinilaw before it is served. It is important to strain the seeds out of the juice when one sprinkles it over the kinilaw dish.

[viva]

Calamansi... is the juice made into a hot beverage in the Phillippines? If so, there was a wonderful waiter in Manila who cured me of one of the worst colds in my life by serving me a constant supply during a business dinner. It was very tart and hit the spot for my poor aching throat.

I'd bet they'd be a great part of a good ceviche.

[Domestic Goddess]

Yes, calamansi toddy has always been a staple cure for those afflicted with a bad cold or flu. It goes down so easy when you have a sore throat and always seem to feel like it is really curing it. I miss hot calamansi drinks and also cold ones. Cold calamansi lemonade are always a staple of school parties when I was growing up.

And like I said, the cerviche rocks when it is finished with a squeeze of calamansi over the dish.

[primowino]

Jaymes, I am so envious of you. Kinilaw is not kinilaw without the very important addition of calamansi. Here in Korea, I'd had to settle for calamansi in powdered form or just plain lemon or lime juice. Wish I had a big plant like what we had back in Manila and just harvest the fruit when we need it for kinilaw or the ever present dip of soysauce and vinegar+calamansi.

Are you sure you can't grow one there? I've grown various citrus plants all over the world. You might have to take it inside in the winter, but I'll bet you could grow one. Next time you go home, take a couple of the fruits back with you. God knows they have plenty of seeds!!

They're really pretty plants as you know. In the US, they're sold as "ornamental citrus," and as a houseplant in cooler climates. I was told by a nurseryman that "nobody grows them for the fruit because it's so small - the plants are popular because they're pretty and smell nice and they're easy to grow."

I'd recommend you give it a try. Whacha got to lose?

Calamondin Orange

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They are very hardy, in Australia they have been grown for years under the name of "Kumquats", now that true Kumquats are being sold they are marketed as "Australian Kumquats". The make superb marmalade.

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Adam, are you telling me the delicious kumquat marmalade you made me was not from real kumquats but some Australian imposter? Actually I don't like the real things and can't imagine they would make anything as good as your marmalade.

[phaelon56]

Why is it so popular now?

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Because it's easy to make, it tastes good and it's a healthy dish. I also appreciate the fact that as an appetizer it's much lighter than many of the other choices long popular in the US market.

[JP001]

hi guys, 1st post. quick question.

how long can the fish sit in the lime juice? i know the minimum ranges anywhere from 30 minutes to a few hours, but if it sits for 12 hours or so, is it going to break down the fish or mess up the flavor? i was thinking about taking a batch with me to work and prepping it the night before.

thoughts?

[melkor]

The texture sort of goes to hell the longer it sits in the lime juice. Why not bring the fish in a separate container and assemble the ceviche a little while before you eat it?

[Jaymes]

hi guys, 1st post.  quick question.

how long can the fish sit in the lime juice?  i know the minimum ranges anywhere from 30 minutes to a few hours, but if it sits for 12 hours or so, is it going to break down the fish or mess up the flavor?  i was thinking about taking a batch with me to work and prepping it the night before.

thoughts?

I think it must also have something to do with what kind of fish you use. When we lived in Panama, there was a restaurant that made great ceviche. We used to buy it in large gallon jars (and I'm not kidding). It took my family of five about three days to get through that jar. And frankly, we couldn't tell any difference from first bite to last.

The style of ceviche, and amount of time considered optimal, varies from country to country, and even from region to region.

[bigbear]

Shrimp holds up well. I always make a big batch, hoping for leftovers.

[Sentiamo]

Here in New Zealand we make a variety of Ceviche which is a national dish from Tahiti and called by the French name, Poisson Cru. There is the usual lime juice/scallions/coconut cream with the addition of finely sliced celery, tomato and finely diced red and green capsicum ( bell pepper). Some also add carrot to the mix. The difference here is that the fish ( most often pristine fresh tuna) is marinated very briefly in the lime juice then it is drained off and other ingredients added. The fish then, needs to be very fresh indeed and frozen, as someone upthread mentioned, just would not do.

Spring has nearly sprung so this popular dish will be consumed in vast quantities again very soon!

[SundaySous]

Here in New Zealand we make a variety of Ceviche which is a national dish from Tahiti and called by the French name, Poisson Cru.  There is the usual lime juice/scallions/coconut cream with the addition of finely sliced celery, tomato and finely diced red and green capsicum ( bell pepper). Some also add carrot to the mix. The difference here is that the fish ( most often pristine fresh tuna) is marinated very briefly in the lime juice then it is drained off and other ingredients added. The fish then, needs to be very fresh indeed and frozen, as someone upthread mentioned, just would not do.

Spring has nearly sprung so this popular dish will be consumed in vast quantities again very soon! 

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I'm jealous.