Australian Wines

[ludja]

Has anyone had any wines from Tokar Estate (Yarra Valley)?

A friend brought back a 2001 Shiraz that we enjoyed very much ~ a year ago. I don't have any tasting notes though... I haven't seen the wine over here (in the US) so I'm not sure if they export.

[SWISS_CHEF]

In the same price range as Deakin... so around the $15 to $25 range... well, the list is virtually endless.

- Scotchman's Hill Dry Red (Claret)

- Fox Creek Shadow's Run Shiraz Cabernet

- Penfold's Koonunga Hill

- Wirra Wirra Church Block

- Terra Felix Shiraz

- The Procrastinator Cabernet Franc

I've spoken to a few more people since my last post here, and the result is shock and awe that Deakin is held in such high esteem in the US.

←

Actually, I am in Switzerland but they sell well here too.

I sell all the Deakins between 10.80 and 12 CHF (Swiss Francs and 1US$ equals 1.20 CHF)

- Scotchman's Hill Dry Red (Claret) is N/A but the cheapest Scotchman's Hill red costs 22.30 CHF

- Fox Creek Shadow's Run Shiraz Cabernet is N/A but the cheapest Fox Creek red is 24 CHF.

- Penfold's Koonunga Hill costs 17-20 CHF

- Wirra Wirra Church Block costs 19-32 CHF (different vintages)

- Terra Felix Shiraz is N/A

- The Procrastinator Cabernet Franc is N/A

(Pricing source: Vinfox 2005)

So the wines that you mention that are available here really aren't in the same price range as the Deakin Estate wines. However in your price range, I would re-mention the Thorn-Clarke "Shotfire Ridge" Shiraz. Parker rated the 2002 94 points and I sell Shotfire for 22.90 CHF.

Edited May 19, 2005 by SWISS_CHEF (log)

[SWISS_CHEF]

Has anyone had any wines from Tokar Estate (Yarra Valley)?

A friend brought back a 2001 Shiraz that we enjoyed very much ~ a year ago.  I don't have any tasting notes though... I haven't seen the wine over here (in the US) so I'm not sure if they export.

←

Its not available in Switzerland either. They only have 30 acres so maybe they sell all of their production in Australia.

[jayt90]

Last night I had a reply ready for posting, and it was rejected, site down?!

Without going into details again, the gist of it was that there does not seem to be a lot of differentiation in Aus. Shiraz, in my price range ($20-40.), after 5-10 years of aging. It's as if all the winemakers are after the same goal, a thick, fruity, inky wine of great duration and durabilty. And they almost always get there, even the cheaper ones which are usually newbies. There are lots of new ones coming upstream, so I'll keep buying.

But I don't see great differences, as I do in Rhone, Midi, Bordeaux, or Burgundy.

The French wines can be bad, or great, regardless of price level. Maybe Spain and Italy too.

The result is that all the Shiraz in my cellar is hard to choose from, and the Euro wines are more dramatic, more chancy, and many times a better choice for food matching. I hope this changes for the better in the coming years.

[PCL]

I don't know Tokar, but will look out for it, even though I'm not drinking Shiraz at the moment!

And Swiss_Chef, I'm glad you find some of our Aussie wines palatable, and of good value, but someone's treasure is someone else's crap, and this is just the world we live in. There is no objective truth when it comes to wine, value for money etc etc. I'm sorry you pay so much more for the good stuff that I find good value, and I hope one day you'll be able to get them for a good price and pass it on to your customers. I was really hoping to talk about wines we love over here in Australia, not discuss the availability of particular products in particular places. So cheers again.

For what it's worth, I conducted another little survey during a Eurovision dinner party on the weekend, and Deakin came up as cat's piss again.

Edited by a moderator at the member's request.

[appreciator]

Australian wines I've tried and enjoyed:

d'Arenberg - The Custodian - Grenache, 1999 (McLaren Vale) (big FAV... I've tried other Grenache's and they just don't hold a candle to this one... IMHO etc.)

Pirramimma - Petit Verdot, 1999 (McLaren Vale) (Second FAV)

Mitolo - Jester - Shiraz, 2001 (McLaren Vale)

Ferngrove - King Malbec, 2002 (Frankland River)

Jim Barry - Lodge Hill - Shiraz, 2002 (Clare Valley)

Elderton - Shiraz, 2003 (Barossa Valley)

Grant Burge - Old Vines - Shiraz, 2002 (Barossa Valley)

Peter Lehmann - Clancy's Red, 2003 (Barossa Valley)

St. Hallett - Gamekeeper's Reserve - Shiraz-Grenache-Mourvedre-Touriga, 2003 (Barossa Valley)

Vasse Felix - Cabernet Sauvignon, 2002 (Margaret River)

Deen De Bortoli - Vat 8 - Shiraz, 2002 (Riverina, NSW)

Deen De Bortoli - Vat 4 - Petit Verdot, 2002 (Riverina, NSW)

There are a few more but I am going to have to return to the wine store to peruse labels because that's the way I remember the wines. Clever of me, I know.

[PCL]

An eclectic list Sarah, and I agree with you on the d'Arenberg Grenache. Miles above the rest.

You've managed to introduce some new ones to me and I too shall be returning to the wine store this weekend. Will report on what I pick up and what I find.

Really good to see Aussie wines being appreciated overseas!

[SWISS_CHEF]

Post removed

Edited May 25, 2005 by SWISS_CHEF (log)

[afn33282]

And now for something completely different.....

This is not a dig; please take it in the irreverent spirit in which it was written. Also remember that this was written in '69!

Chris

Edited May 25, 2005 by afn33282 (log)

[PCL]

Pretty Bloody Funny Really.

[SWISS_CHEF]

....and a prize winning Cuivre Reserve Château Bottled Nuit San Wogga Wogga, which has a bouquet like an aborigine's armpit.

I tried this wine back in '03 and Mr. Idle's review is spot on!

[primowino]

An eclectic list Sarah, and I agree with you on the d'Arenberg Grenache. Miles above the rest.

I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly about The Custodian Grenache until a couple of days ago. I too had enjoyed this wine every time I have had it, but I had a 2001 for the first time and it was a big disappointment. It was very "jammy" - a term often assigned to fairly standard Aussie reds that are slightly sweet (or at least taste that way) and extremely thick and viscous.

Previous vintages have had a nice balance of fruit and gamey earthiness (not very technical I know) and one held its own well against a Clos des Papes Chateauneuf de Pape drank together over a dinner.

Anyone else had a similar experience? I'm assuming it is a vintage affect.

Edited May 25, 2005 by primowino (log)

[Rebel Rose]

Weighing in on the To Deakin Or Not To Deakin issue, I'd like to point out that we have already had one lively discussion here about how tastes in wine vary geographically, and what people enjoy in some areas of the world are snubbed in others.

Also, I think you should all know that mega-producers will sometimes have different tank lots under the same label, and although those tank lots may technically be from the same vineyard and vintage, they often have different rows, picking dates, and chemical balances, and may have been adjusted differently.

Most importantly, the US, EU and Australian standards for chemical composition are vastly different, and wines designed for export to the US and other countries are most likely designed to meet their standards and will be considerably different than the same labels sold in Australia.

This is a global forum, so the specifics of availability are often not pertinent to a wide range of members. However, vinophiles that we all are, we enjoy hearing about wonderful wines even if we can't get them, and vinous adventures that we may someday experience.

PCL, can you tell us in more detail about the various regions of Australia wine production?

[ademello]

Some of my faves are:

<UL>

<LI>Anything by Peter Lehman - widely available and well-priced in the US. His higher-end offerings are astounding (Eight Songs, Mentor)

<LI>Torbreck - Woodcutter's Red ($20 if you can find it)

<LI>Nepenthe - The Tryst (a bizarre Zinfdandel/Temperanillo/Cabernet blend!) - 8 pounds at Oddbins in the UK

<LI>RL Buller - Muscat and Tokay dessert wines, value priced ($20 for a 375) and really quite singularly special

<LI>Worthy - Barossa Shiraz

<LI>Grant Burge - Holy Trinity (GSM Blend, about $25) and Filsell Shiraz (has to be tasted to be believed, tastes like a super-intense Rhone)

<LI>Nugan Family - Durif ($25-ish, Petite Sirah bursting with fruit, great with BBQ)

<LI>Orlando - if you can find the Jacaranda Ridge and Centennary Hill you are very very lucky! Proof that Aussie wines with some bottle age are shockingly awesome

<LI>Marquis Phillips - awesome if you are into overly extracted monster wines. Their $15 wines taste like $30+

<LI>Kurz Family - Boundary Row shiraz, $25-ish

<LI>Paringa - cool climate Shiraz, a good reliable wine I've often seen on sale for under $20

</UL>

You will be doing yourself a disservice if you write off all Aussie wines as big, syrupy fruit bombs. A lot of the cooler-climated shiraz is quite food friendly and unique, but typically doesn't get as much press as the bigger "Look at Me" wines. I think a few US wine shops are doing a good job at importing some of the smaller labels. People don't realize just how many small, excellent producers of wine there are in Australia, and the variance in climate and soil create a huge array of different types of wines. Try a cool climate shiraz, you'll be smitten!

Edited May 25, 2005 by ademello (log)

[SWISS_CHEF]

Weighing in on the To Deakin Or Not To Deakin issue, I'd like to point out that we have already had one lively discussion here about how tastes in wine vary geographically, and what people enjoy in some areas of the world are snubbed in others. 

Also, I think you should all know that mega-producers will sometimes have different tank lots under the same label, and although those tank lots may technically be from the same vineyard and vintage, they often have different rows, picking dates, and chemical balances, and may have been adjusted differently.

Most importantly, the US, EU and Australian standards for chemical composition are vastly different, and wines designed for export to the US and other countries are most likely designed to meet their standards and will be considerably different than the same labels sold in Australia.

Thanks Rebel Rose,

Maybe I should send PCL a bottle of the Deakin I'm drinking, there may be a difference. I'm pretty sure I'm not crazy! What do you think PCL... you send me something interesting and I'll send you one of my Deakins?

[PCL]

Also, I think you should all know that mega-producers will sometimes have different tank lots under the same label, and although those tank lots may technically be from the same vineyard and vintage, they often have different rows, picking dates, and chemical balances, and may have been adjusted differently.

Most importantly, the US, EU and Australian standards for chemical composition are vastly different, and wines designed for export to the US and other countries are most likely designed to meet their standards and will be considerably different than the same labels sold in Australia.

This is a global forum, so the specifics of availability are often not pertinent to a wide range of members.  However, vinophiles that we all are, we enjoy hearing about wonderful wines even if we can't get them, and vinous adventures that we may someday experience.

PCL, can you tell us in more detail about the various regions of Australia wine production?

←

Wow. I did not know this for certain although to be fair, someone in my survey group did mention this as a possibility. I think it's a poo poo situation. I mean, for someone like Deakin, why sell the 'good stuff' OS but not at home? To answer my own question, I guess margins have a lot to do with it.

To answer your last question RR, I think the following website would provide superior information to anything I can narrate in this forum... http://www.wineaustralia.com/Global/default.aspx?p=1

It's a marketing site owned by the wine and cognac group and it's quite 'independent' and the historical information and the regional information are very good.

And SWISS_CHEF... you're on dude, I'm going to check on restrictions etc for postal imports and get back to you. I'll post a list of things I think you should have a go at, procure a bottle of your selection and we can exchange.

[SWISS_CHEF]

And SWISS_CHEF... you're on dude, I'm going to check on restrictions etc for postal imports and get back to you. I'll post a list of things I think you should have a go at, procure a bottle of your selection and we can exchange. 

←

Cool! I have always disregarded the regulations and just shipped the stuff. I doubt they will throw us in jail.

[eje]

Little bump to this thread...

My wife and I quite enjoyed "2003 Hewitson "Miss Harry" Grenache Shiraz Mourvèdre" this week.

It is a nice reasonable wine with softer dark berry/currant flavors and a decent tannic spine. The makers describe it as a rhone style blend. I'm not sure that they really quite have that style down. However, the fruit was much more restrained than many other Australian wines I've tried and it is interesting enough in character that I would certainly buy it again and recommend it.

Erik

[PCL]

Thanks for the bump!

Miss Harry is a favourite at the moment. I first came across it when my all time no.1 brasserie ran out of southern rhone wine and the French waitress commented, "Try the Miss Harry, it's almost the same." And so it was and is.

In my opinion, it's very Rhone like.

Damn, need to get back to Swiss Chef about the wine exchange programme!

[PCL]

Interesting article on Australian Shiraz...

http://www.theage.com.au/news/epicure/beyo...0329359048.html