Looking for Closure: Screwcaps vs. Corks

[Rosie]

Frank Prial has an article in today's "Dining Out" section of the NY Times  about the use of synthetic corks. It seems that more and more wineries even those producing expensive wine are going to be using synthetic corks. Natural corks that become defective cost wine producers up to บ billion per year. What do you think? I can't make my own corkboards with plastic corks.

[Jason Perlow]

Yes, but with synthetic corks you don't get corked wine!

Which on a 200 dollar bottle of burgundy is probably a very good thing...

[tommy]

Quote: from Rosie on 11:37 am on Aug. 8, 2001

Natural corks that become defective cost wine producers up to บ billion per year.

i'm always curious when reading statements like the above.  as far as *i* can tell, defective corks are costing *me* $$$$ per year!!!!  the producers are still selling the stuff, and in recent memory, i don't recall shipping a bottle back to Ravenswood for a refund!!!  in my experience, 1 out of 20 bottles or so goes down the drain due to failed corks.  and i generally buy young wines whose corks have  not had very long to fail.    

i'm all for synthetic.  i just can't fathom the "tradition" angle.  anyone here opposed to synthetic because of the tradition?  perhaps it's because i've been drinking wine for only 10 years or so, and with any passion for maybe 8.  i'm certainly not of any "old school" ####-bent on keeping tradition (a costy one) alive.  take your tradition and dump it down the drain with your corked wine as far as i'm concerned. ;)

[Rosie]

What is your opinion on screwtops? No plastic. No cork. No corkscrew. Will the waiter come over to the table,  unscrew your bottle and hand you the top?

[Andy Lynes]

Apparently Mount Horrocks in Australia have been experimenting with Screwtops for something like 20 years and have just released their 2000 reisling in a screwtop for the first time. They are now satisfied that it has no long term effects on the wine. With more and more wine now being produced for drinking young, it's inevitable that screwtop will become the norm. I have never been offered a cork, even in a Michelin 3 star restaurant , probably because I dont drink expensive enough wine.

[DANYRAF]

Corked wines account for about 5% of the wines out there.  I worked a tasting yesterday where we opened 300 bottles and only 2 were corked. Synthetic is fine for wines that are not supposed to age (Sauvignon Blanc) but cork is nessesary for age-worthy wines. As with barrel fermenting, corks allow a small amount of oxidation over time that allows the wine to evolve.

[Rosie]

Quote: from DANYRAF on 3:11 pm on Aug. 8, 2001

Corked wines account for about 5% of the wines out there.  I worked a tasting yesterday where we opened 300 bottles and only 2 were corked.  

Where was the tasting?

[DANYRAF]

Il Giardino in Cedar Knolls. There is another at La Griglia on Thursday. NOT A PUBLIC EVENT, but I can get you in.

Bob

[Jason Perlow]

DANY I would love to go to that with Rosie... :)

[tommy]

Quote: from DANYRAF on 3:11 pm on Aug. 8, 2001

but cork is nessesary for age-worthy wines...that allows the wine to evolve.

with all due respect, i think the jury's still out on that one.  but i agree with your 5% estimate completely!

[Bux]

I haven't got the article in front of me, but I though Prial claimed that allowing wine to breath and age was not what one wanted from a cork and added that the ability to store wine upright was an advantage of a plastic cork.

I seem to recall reading that Jancis Robinson supports the contention that 5% of all wine is corked. I also seem to recall that she favored the beer bottle cap as a solution. As a collector of bottle caps as a kid, I rather like that. I find screw caps less than aesthetically pleasing. My worry is that most plastics are unstable and that the chance for them to impart a taste to the wine should be of great concern.

[DANYRAF]

breathing and oxidation are two very different things

[Anna]

I have really done a number on my Screwpull with synthetic corks.  The screw does not like releasing the cork, and I suspect they are dulling the blade.  Maybe they need to redesign it if this is going to be the trend of the future.  I'd hate to ruin a very pricy and useful tool with these corks!  Anyone have a similar experience and do you use a different corkscrew for these corks?  

[tommy]

Quote: from Anna on 10:12 am on Aug. 19, 2001

Anyone have a similar experience and do you use a different corkscrew for these corks?  

i use the waiter's friend, or whatever the standard waiter's corkscrew is called.  works fine on the synthetic.  as does my more expensive german model.

[Bux]

DANYRAF - breathing and oxidation are two very different things

Oxidation is a fault resulting from excessive exposure to oxygen at any time in the life of a wine. Breathing, as I understand it, is the time a wine is alowed to come in contact with air, usually after a bottle is opened and related to "aeration." Both seem related to the value of a cork in preventing the exchange of air. A further explanation of your post would be instructional for me, as well as perhaps others. At any rate, Prial is far more knowledgeable about this than I am and he was the one who rejected the notion that a plastic cork was inferior because it did not allow for air transmission. There may be schools of thought on this issue and I am but a student waiting for better information.

[Bux]

I too find the plastic corks have an incredible grip. I"ve been more aware of the grip on the inside of the bottle neck. The "waiters friend" will only work well if the worm is inserted straight. There's little tolerance for error. In any event, you really need some sort of leverage. In my opinion, a good tug rarely works. I've yet to try a two pronged cork puller on a plastic cork, although at one time that was a favorite. Cork screws, pullers or extractors are a kind of a toy and fun to play with, untill you ruin a cork on a good bottle of wine.

[stefanyb]

Regarding bottle tops on wine bottles...I had a funny experience at Avra  (NYC, Greek,  fish).  I ordered a bottle of Retsina.  My knowledge about it was rudimentary, at best-  I did know about the resin flavor but not much else.  The waiter brought the Retsina, removed the bottle top with a standard bottle top lever opener-- with great flourish and a cloth draped over his arm-- poured me a tasting in my wine glass;  I swirled it sipped and pronounced it fine whereby he poured for the table and put this pop type bottle into a cooler by the side of the table and covered the side with a cloth.  The bottle-top remained in the place on the table where a cork would normally be just waiting to be sniffed (?)  To me this all seemed rather hilarious.

[tommy]

Quote: from stefanyb on 2:21 pm on Aug. 27, 2001

 The bottle-top remained in the place on the table where a cork would normally be just waiting to be sniffed (?)  To me this all seemed rather hilarious.

someone will no doubt have to rewrite the rules of service.  i wonder who the world will elect for that task? ;)

[DANYRAF]

A wine that has oxidized would indeed be ruined, but a wine that is stored properly with real cork will still gets air, just very slowly. This accounts for a wine developing over time.

Here is a thought. When a wine is fermented in barrel and is barrel aged, is it going to be more oaky or less?

The correct answer is less. Wine that is made in this manner gets very small levels of oxygen during this process which allows the fruit flavors to mature and develop.

Corked wines have nothing to do with age. It is a defect in the cork so it can effect any wine at anytime.

[tommy]

i noticed that this year's Georges Dubœuf Beaujolais Nouveau had a synthetic cork.  i also noticed that it was practically undrinkable!

[DANYRAF]

Nouveau is not my thing. We sell quite a bit of it. It is meant to be consumed within 3-6 months if not sooner so it is a great item for synthetic... Try Drouhin

[tommy]

Quote: from DANYRAF on 3:27 pm on Nov. 29, 2001

When a wine is fermented in barrel and is barrel aged, is it going to be more oaky or less?

The correct answer is less. Wine that is made in this manner gets very small levels of oxygen during this process which allows the fruit flavors to mature and develop.

i'll buy the "fruit flavors maturing" bit, but the obvious question is, with longer contact with oak, especially new oak, wouldn't you expect more oak flavor and sweetness to be imparted to the wine?  i sure would.

[gastrotex]

Some months back I watched a TV program about a California wine company's plans to replace wine corks with screwtops. I fail to remember the name of the company, but the wines in question were, one might say, in the higher mid-range price-wise - IIRC $25-50 a bottle. There are supposedly good enological reasons for doing this, but much of the discussion revolved, not surprisingly, around market acceptance of screwtops by discerning consumers of relatively expensive wines.

I put this to the back of my mind until recently confronted with a favorite New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc - Trinity Hill Hawkes Bay - which appeared to be in transition from corks to screwtops (about half of each in the case I bought). This gave me the opportunity to do a taste comparison, and I have to admit there was no difference I could detect - I found the same clear, lightly fruited taste with a slightly mineral touch regardless. But my subjective reaction is adverse - there is enjoyment per se in the act of uncorking a bottle - and you can't put a vacuum stopper in a screwtop bottle to preserve partially drunk contents.

So I'm wondering how widely spread the screwtop experience has become, and what people's reactions are? Is this just the lament of an inflexible conservative resisting the inevitable tide of change?

[jordyn]

I'm far from the expert in this, but apparently corks suck. I think I've read here on eGullet that most wine spoilage is due to cork problems.

New Zealand is leading the way in moving from cork to screwtops for serious wine. The New Zealand screwcap wine seal initiative has banded together a bunch of wine producers who all make use of screwcaps. The referenced webpage has a lot of information.

This article describes a more general trend towards screwtops, and some of the reasons why.

[hollywood]

Resistance or not, synthetic "corks" are all ready in use. Somewhere I read that Italians were trying to come up with some sexy design for a screw cap to make it more acceptable to those of us who might associate it with the likes of Thunderbird.