Visiting SF

[PCL]

Greetings. This is my virgin post on the California board, and is one I have anticipated making for some now.

I have an upcoming whirlwind visit encompassing LA and SF and it looks like there would be a weekend involved. It will be a long way from home, and of course, it would be nice to eat well and in some cases, see what the fuss is all about.

The Bouchon book came via Santa so that's question #1:

Is it hard to get a booking there, even if they offer continuous service from opening to closing?

I'm not going to bother with even trying to get into the French Laundry, unless advised otherwise.

Question #2 is more general:

Is there good Mexican in either LA or SF that would be worth trying?

That's it for now, but if I think of more, I'll be sure to post. Trying to plan food and trip (which is work-related) is not easy!!

Thanks in advance!!

[melkor]

Getting a table at Bouchon requires at most a phone call a few days in advance. When are you going to be out here? If you have enough notice then the French Laundry is likely also a possibility. Neither are all that close to SF - without traffic it takes a bit more than an hour by car to get to either of them.

[Catherine Nash]

Regarding Mexican food, you must stop by the SF Ferry Building and go to Mijita. The carnitas tacos are really wonderful - handmade corn tortillas, a huge hunk of tender and juicy pork (so juicy your plate might drip as you carry it, watch out!) and a sprinkling of fresh onion and cilantro. Um-um-good!

[rjwong]

PCL, nice to meet you in the California board!

Here's a link to my post from another thread about Guelaguetza and few other ethnic places.

I'll think of some more Mexican in the LA area, if I can. I presume you don't want chains, right??

[fiftydollars]

Bouchon is open until 1am most nights and does not require a reservation, so there's a good chance you'll get a table if you wait long enough.

[touaregsand]

For Mexian and Asian I think that there is a greater range of variety and quality in Los Angeles, than there is in SF. But Los Angeles is very sprawled out and huge compared to SF, so it's not a comparison that is "fair" in some ways.

If you want slightly more upscale Anglo-Los Angeles Mexican food (or Latin Style) Border Grill in Santa Monica is suitable for this. The same folks also have Ciudad in downtown.

El Coyote is a total dive on Beverly Blvd. The food is mostly junk, but it's popular with the Hollywood art department crowd. Dirt cheap prices and the food reflects it, but it can be fun, gets packed.

El Cholo is a "landmark" restaurant with 2 locations. It's a slice of Mexican-American history. The one in Koreatown on Western opened in the 1920's and the original waitresses still work there. The food at the Santa Monica location pretty much tastes the same, but the waitresses are struggling actress types. The same folks also own Sonora Cafe on La Brea serving "sophisticated Southwestern cuisne"

Of course there are numerous fast food Mexican chains throughout the city such as La Salsa and Baja Fresh. As well as mom and pop joints. Depends on what you want to try.

East Los Angeles and beyond is where you'll find a greater concentration of Mexican places. Alot of Michoacan style in East LA, after that mom and pop restaurants (still inexpensive but more restaurant style than fast food, good homey stuff).

There is a thread I started on "walking and eating neighborhoods" in the General Topics forum that you might want to look at. I haven't finished with my observations on LA yet though. When I'm visiting a city for a short time, I think more of neighborhoods to visit than destination restaurants. But that's just me.

[rjwong]

BTW, PCL, to help us help you, let us know which parts of SF and LA you'll be staying & whether you'll have a car. Also, high-end, holes-in-the-walls? On expense account (don't we all wish)?

In LA, besides Mexican, there's Salvadorean, Peruvian, Cuban, Brazilian, etc.... Did you want to try those as well?

[Carolyn Tillie]

The big question is -- will you have a vehicle? While San Francisco is relatively friendly to providing public transportation, Los Angeles is quite nasty. From San Francisco, it is possible to get into the Napa Valley, but it takes about four hours on public transportation (I've had several friends do it when I was unable to pick them up at airports). Los Angeles isn't REALLY a city that you want to use public transportation if you can help it -- it is possible, but not remotely pleasant. So we need to know where you are planning on staying (neighborhood, if you can) then it'll be a cinch to direct you towards the best eateries. Honestly, in LA, you can't throw a dead animal without hitting a relatively decent taco joint although (as Touaregsand indicated), they are better in East LA. I guess I'm one of the few who isn't wowed with Bouchon. I cook a lot of country French food so there isn't much there that I don't make myself and I tend to prefer restaurants that have food I don't cook. Although it is a great stop for oysters and a glass of white wine -- and there are always the pastries...

Welcome to the California board! Let's hope you come back often...

Edited March 8, 2005 by Carolyn Tillie (log)

[IrishCream]

Hi PCL. As far as Bouchon goes, last August (the busy season in Napa) a friend and I were seated on the patio within 5 minutes of showing up with no reservation. It was around 7:30 on a weeknight. Obviously, if you can make a reservation it won't hurt. However, I recommend before heading to Bouchon you check the French Laundry (in person) for cancellations/no shows. And it's worth waiting for a few hours if they have an opening. (Unlikely, but I've known people who got in that way.)

I only dined at Bouchon that one time. It was a very pleasant space. But I really don't think you get the true Thomas Keller experience there. No one is raving about it. I also received the cookbook for Xmas and agree with you that it's lovely.

Edited March 8, 2005 by IrishCream (log)

[dvs]

welcome to the new bouchon folks. the food has improved 100 fold and yes, reservations are suggested as they haven't had a slow day or night in this supposed slow season.

steak frites, roasted chicken, boudin blanc, salmon rillette, fresh oysters, housemade ice creams... everything is delicious!

make the trip... you won't be disappointed!

[PCL]

I am completely overwhelmed.

Thanks to all you dudes/dudettes!!

Where I'm staying in either town is yet to be determined. I'm waiting to hear from our sister office in SF. I'm doing all I can to score the weekend in the SF area due to the presence of friends with car and favours owing, and this pressing need to go Napa myself.

Budget will be a combo of hanging with friends (they're not quite local, moved to SF to study at Berkeley) and expense account. As for getting around LA, cabs will do just fine so long as they issue receipts! A bit daunting especially after watching Collateral and reading Michael Connelly, but I'm game, BRING IT ON!!!

Holes in the wall, as per rjwong's suggestion, are good. I come from a city full of nice holes in walls serving up EVERYTHING, but its nice to know these sorts of eateries are available elsewhere.

Now, this might be sacreligious, but what about BBQ? Maybe I could plan a side trip to TX...

Once I get more info on the trip, dates and locations I'll post back. Thought I should mention that on the 22 March, when I might be in CA, I'm booked for a Tony Bourdain dinner here in Melbourne, so will need to Launder it or Bouchon it or whatever to make up for missing out on something I booked months in advance.

Thanks again for the warm welcome's and help. Might see some of you in the bars!

[touaregsand]

First off you're coming to Cali, not much if anything is sacreligious here. BBQ? You mentioned Texas, so I'm assuming Southern American style. The closest thing in the city is BBQ King on Sunset where it changes into Cesar Chavez (or is it the other way around?) and Figueroa. I've been going there on and off for years. It's good stuff, cheap and it has a distinctive "ambience". If you like hole in the wall with character it's fun to try. Last time I was there they were still cooking with wood. It's also a stone's throw away from Chinatown which is worth a visit.

Cab's in LA? Don't you have a driver's license, why not just rent a car? I mean LA is REALLY sprawled out.

[PCL]

I'm gonna hire a cab for the night... wear a grey suit... visit 5 restaurants...

...you guys drive on the wrong side of the road dude... takes me a couple days to adjust and for a short trip, jet lag, like i'm going to be a day behind when i get over, so safety first!...

The bbq place is on the list, much obliged.

And touareg, how's about a good Korean BBQ place?? do you drive a VW by the way?

And while I'm thinking straight, how's about good places to get inebriated/plastered in both LA & SF? No tourist traps please, I'm thinking hole in the wall again, cool funky low-key loungy type places... like where chef's go to hangout after work...

[touaregsand]

We drive on the wrong side?!?!?!??! When I was in London, I got anxiety attacks from just sitting on the passenger side! I drive an SUV, yeah, yeah whatever! Leave me alone.

Korea town BBQ, well Soot Bull Jeep is good if not unfortunately named for the Anglo ear at least. They use real charcoal. Soot (charcoal), Bull (fire), Jeep (House or home). Sounds better if you understand Korean. I'll look up the address later and post it for you. But there are plenty of other places that use real charcoal.

As for bars, ya lookin for a dive? If so I have a list...

If you want to go where the *ahem*, *gag* "beautiful" folks go I know a few places as well for that. (Honest I never went to any of them )

[rjwong]

Soot Bull Jeep ; 3136 8th St. (Catalina St.) ; (213) 387-3865

[PCL]

I drive a turbo diesel swb Toyota Landcruiser. 'nuff said.

Dives are good... prefer grunge to 'beautiful' as there is usually no cover charge...

Mr Wong... very swift!

What's the tipping situation in LA/SF?... for bars and restos...?

Over in NY, I usually tip a dollar a drink, 2 if ahem, the view's good... man I'm cheap. For food, 15%, 20% if superlative service.

[eje]

Dives are good... prefer grunge to 'beautiful' as there is usually no cover charge...

←

Well, OK then.

I haven't been to a lot of Vietnamese restaurants here; but, a couple of my favorites are Yummy Yummy and PPQ in the Sunset district. Both are pretty low key and have excellent Pho and combination plates.

Some smaller restaurants run by younger local restaurant owners which I really like include Firefly, Blue Plate (3218 Mission), and Charanga. I also have had a couple very nice meals at Incanto in Noe Valley.

Two restaurants which I consider institutions that shouldn't be missed on any trip to San Francisco are the Tadich Grill and Swan Oyster Depot. The Tadich Grill has been in operation since 1849 and has the feel of being somewhat stuck in time.

If you are a foodie, I would be remiss to not recommend our lovely new Ferry Building Plaza and Farmer's Market. Though, honestly, if you are going to be here on a Saturday morning, you will probably be more likely to see chefs at the Alemany Farmer's market. Not to mention cigar smoking asian grandmothers peeling sugar cane with a machete.

Aside from Burritos in the Mission at El Toro, Pancho Villa, Taqueria Cancun, La Coroneta, Papalotte, etc. (I don't want to start a holy war by recommending one in particular,) San Francisco isn't a particularly great town for authentic Mexican Food. I haven't been to Mom is Cooking for a few years; but, it certainly is a dive and may be as close as you are going to get authentic Mexican food here.

There are quite a few "Nuevo Latino" restaurants around these days and some are quite good. I have had very good meals at Platanos (Latin Small Plates) and Limon (Peruvian).

I'm not a great resource for bars; but, ones I like are Zeitgeist, Casanova, and Toronado.

Erik

[Carolyn Tillie]

I hope your expense account is big -- a cab in LA is going to cost you a pretty penny. When my car broke down and I had to take a cab a total of about four miles back home, it cost me $15 (I seriously should have walked). That being said, having a cab haul you are this incredibly large city several hundreds of dollars. I'm not kidding.

Regarding BBQ, the hands-down best BBQ in the city are in areas where you can't go alone and carrying a gun might be more in line. I'm not kidding. I once had four VERY large, imposing looking guys escort me to try the BBQ and I still worried for my life. It was good, though.

[PCL]

I've only got one night left up to my own devices in LA really. I've been known to spend over $150 a day on cabs in other strange towns.

But thanks again. The Tadich is on the list as is the Swan Oyster Depot, for SF. Will try to check out the smaller funky joints.

I'm going to give pho and stuff a miss, 'cos my mother-in-law is pretty much unbeatable, hands down, no fuss.

The markets sound like fun, but are they open at night and is it possible to get inebriated there?? Hole in the wall restos are great fun, but grungy drinking dives? Surely the bohemian population of SF would provide?

[tanabutler]

I am completely overwhelmed.

Thanks to all you dudes/dudettes!!

Where I'm staying in either town is yet to be determined. I'm waiting to hear from our sister office in SF. I'm doing all I can to score the weekend in the SF area due to the presence of friends with car and favours owing, and this pressing need to go Napa myself.

Budget will be a combo of hanging with friends (they're not quite local, moved to SF to study at Berkeley) and expense account. As for getting around LA, cabs will do just fine so long as they issue receipts! A bit daunting especially after watching Collateral and reading Michael Connelly, but I'm game, BRING IT ON!!!

Thanks again for the warm welcome's and help. Might see some of you in the bars!

←

PCL, just yesterday I ate at a great (and I mean great) place in Berkeley, right next door to Chez Panisse. It's called César, at 1515 Shattuck. It's open from noon until 11 or midnight, same tapas menu the whole time (no night-time mark-up), and the bar has an amazing assortment of wines and spirits. (Like, three dozen kinds of grappa, for example.) We shared seven tapas plates yesterday, as well as three desserts. Everything was exemplary. It was delightful. Owner/operators are three Chez Panisse alumni. It's not in direct competition, as it's not the same thing. The night before we were there, David Byrne came in after lecturing at UCB...our waitress (a fetus, really) said, "He used to be an old-time group in the Eighties or something."

Berkeley is just full of ethnic restaurants--we couldn't find "Kumar," which the hotel desk recommended to my friend (an Indian cookbook author and chef), so that's how we wound up at César. Much to my never-ending delight, that is. I loved Berkeley. I hope you do, too. (I love San Francisco, and drive two hours once a month or so to eat there, but I think I'll be dividing my time up in Berkeley, now, too.)

[eje]

The markets sound like fun, but are they open at night and is it possible to get inebriated there??

←

Well, they aren't open at night; but, it is possible to get inebriated at the Ferry Building.

Hole in the wall restos are great fun, but grungy drinking dives? Surely the bohemian population of SF would provide?

←

Surely, there must be someone more suited to giving bar recommendations than me!

OK, some more; but, I'm kind of old for this, I'm sure the "kids" are going out to much cooler places.

Along with toronado, Zeitgeist, and Casanova, I will recommend the following.

The Irish Bank downtown seems quite popular with the young after work set. It is a nice Irish pub with the requisite loud music, pub food and decent guiness. Another recommendable Irish bar downtown is called Johnny Foley's.

Vesuvio in North Beach next to City Lights books is another popular spot. It has some beat nostalgia going on and is pretty busy on weekends. One weeknight I was there during a power outage and had a great time. They actually still have some gaslights burning, lit a bunch of candles, and it was all very turn of the century. Across the street is an even divier bar called, Adler's Museum Cafe aka Specs. Also on Columbus is Tosca, whose appeal I have never really understood. Is it the Red Vinyl? However, it is probably your best chance to see Sean Penn or some other local movie star.

Another decidedly divey bar in Chinatown is the Li Po Lounge. I'm drawing a blank on how to describe its unique appeal, so I will quote from the frommer's website, "A dim, divey, slightly spooky Chinese bar that was once an opium den, Li Po's alluring character stems from its mishmash clutter of dusty Asian furnishings and mementos, including an unbelievably huge ancient rice-paper lantern hanging from the ceiling and a glittery golden shrine to Buddha behind the bar. The bartenders love to creep out patrons with tales of opium junkies haunting the joint." Amazingly, (you'll understand if you go to the bathroom here,) fairly trendy bands now play in the basement of this bar.

Erik

Edited March 10, 2005 by eje (log)

[Carolyn Tillie]

on the list as is the Swan Oyster Depot, for SF.

←

Not sure if anyone mentioned it... Swan is not open for dinner. Lunch only.

[touaregsand]

Dive bars/restaurants

Circle Bar in Venice total dive, lots of locals

Chez Jay in Santa Monica, landmark dive serves food

http://chezjays.com/

Dresden Room in Los Feliz

http://www.thedresden.com/

Club Amagi

6114 Sunset Blvd.

Los Angeles, CA 90028

323-962-6808

http://www.lanitelifejames.com/karaoke.html

My husband was there last night, full of crazy LA characters, total fun.

These are fun places to visit and let loose, no attitude

There's also Barney's Beanery if you're into the West Hollywood gay crowd. It's pretty fun, I haven't been in ages, last time I went was with hubby who was then my boyfriend. The other guys kept checking him out...

http://www.qsbilliards.com/barneysbeanery/default.asp

[Carlsbad]

I used to be a regular at Chez Jay back in the '70's. Oh, I could tell some stories about that place. Another cool dive was The Galley, not too far from Jay's. Their specialty was 3 1/2 pounds of steamed clams. I wonder if it is still there.

[PCL]

Might need to rethink strategy for LA, one night ain't 'nuff is it??

The whole thing's being postponed for a couple weeks, which is great. Means I can have lunch with Tony Bourdain while he's here in Melbourne, enjoy a decent Easter, camping et al, then head over to your great State for B I G F U N.... and work of curse..