Chinatown help

[Diann]

This is almost embarrassing to admit, but I've lived in Philadelphia for almost four years and I've been to Chinatown less than ten times. It's not like I live far away ("the UC" -- I like that )...it's not like I don't get into Center City (I somehow find time to dine out at least once a week, and mostly on the other side of the Schuykill, too)...it's not like I don't love food...AND, I grew up eating Chinese food. RAAAR. So I've resolved to change this.

These places are on my to-go list already:

- Lakeside Chinese Deli

- Rangoon (not Chinese, but whatever)

- Ba Le (see above)

- Soup Train (that's in Chinatown, right?)

- Nan Zhou

Now I need advice re: actual Chinese restaurants. I love duck/wonton places like Sang Kee, and I've been to Joy Tsin Lau/Empress Garden/Ocean (Harbor?), etc.; I need to go back and explore their menus. But I'm trying to find homestyle Cantonese/Shanghai food -- does it exist here? I'm thinking winter melon soup and other slow cooked soups -- don't know what to call it in English, sorry; steamed whole fish; Shanghai "lion's heads" (I can't spell, but here's an attempt: shr tz tou); soup dumplings (I'm almost positive that soup dumplings aren't in Phila anymore)...and then homestyle dishes. I bet brushing up on my Chinese reading skills would be helpful for this. Regardless. Any ideas?

And what about general suggestions for Chinese food? Where do you go, and what do you get? Doesn't have to be in Chinatown, but I don't want Joseph Poon/Susanna Foo, either. Thanks!

[Andrew Fenton]

Your list looks good. The only one I haven't been to is Nan Zhou, but all the others are solid. You might add Shiao Lan Kung to the list, as well as Lee How Fook. It's been my experience that you have to know what to order. Places will have their specialties, and those specialties will be really really good. But if you order, I dunno, General Tso's Chicken or whatever, it'll be exactly the same as every other order of mediocre General Tso's that you've ever had.

I don't know whether there are any Shanghainese restaurants in Philadelphia. There used to be New Joe Shanghai, but they've closed. You can get soup dumplings, however, at Pagoda (next to the Ritz East). They're not the best soup dumplings evah; but even a halfway decent soup dumpling is better than just about anything else. Probably they're available elsewhere, too: I feel like the soup dumpling has gotten a lot of press over the last few years. Sang Kee might have them, since they're associated with Pagoda (but Pagoda has a more ethnically diverse menu, so I don't know).

[shacke]

And what about general suggestions for Chinese food? Where do you go, and what do you get? Doesn't have to be in Chinatown, but I don't want Joseph Poon/Susanna Foo, either. Thanks!

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[philadining]

... You might add Shiao Lan Kung to the list....

I'll second that for good solid Cantonese classics. And yes, Sang Kee does have soup dumplings, although I've never ordered them there. I like their regular dumplings too much and have a hard time forcing myself to deviate from old habits. (And I almost always injure myself with soup dumplings, so unless i know they're going to be pretty great, I'll pass...)

Every once in a while I manage to break out and go to Nan Zhou, or Shiao Lan Kung, or Penang or Lakeside, and I like all of those, but I usually get sucked into the powerful gravity of Sang Kee or Rangoon.

I have a trustworthy friend who's a big fan of the food at Ray's coffee shop. I love the coffee, but have never eaten the food.

It looks to me like you've got a good list!

[KatieLoeb]

Hi Diann - and welcome!

You've got a good list going. I'll just add a few of my faves:

Shiao Lan Kung for dumplings, oysters with scallions and ginger and anything prepareed "Cantonese style".

Pho Xe Lua (aka "the Soup Train") for pho in many guises, the Spicy seafood soup, the Beef Satay and Rice Noodle soup, spring rolls, that raw beef salad, papaya salad, and Pad Thai.

David's Mai Lai Wah for dumplings with the most amazing ginger dipping sauce EVER, Salt & Pepper Squid, Beef and Broccoli Chow Fun with Satay sauce, Duck Noodle soup.

Lee How Fook - Hot and Sour soup is better than any I've ever had. The cure for all that ails me when I have a head cold. From your other post, it sounds like you oughta go get some right away!!

[mrbigjas]

tai lake is great for whole steamed or fried fish. mmmmm whole steamed fish.

[SG-]

A colleague of mine from China highly recommended "Four Rivers" located across Golden phoenix for Mainland Chinese style cooking.

Have not been myself though.

[Rich Pawlak]

A colleague of mine from China highly recommended "Four Rivers" located across Golden phoenix for Mainland Chinese style cooking.

Have not been myself though.

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Four Rivers is an extraordinary restaurant, very bright, fresh cooking, as is the benchmark Shiao Lan Kung next door. it's always a hard choice for me when I'm in Chinatown. SLK's food is a bit more recognizable and accessible, but if you carefully read the really huge menu at Four Rivers, you can find a lot of recognizable dishes. The really weird menu is now across the street at a new place, Rising Tide; read the menu in the window. Great googly moogly.

[shacke]

This thread sent me to Washington Ave today. I needed fix. I went to Ba Le and got that great sweet chix with gluten sweet rice (xoi ga). I picked up a tapioca drink too. Walked up to Taqueria veracruzana for tacos. I have an aversion to cilantro so they went into the trash - evne though in my ok spanish I asked for none. Oh well.

Then I drove to nearby Artisan Boulanger Patisserie for some truly great bread. Sourdough baguette. Best bread in the city by far - the only place I think I would buy bread from in the future. I always make my own. I picked up the traditional baguette as well as a first timer and obviously it is not as complex as the natural yeast sourdough baguette.

Now I can fixate on another junket for my next day off. this thread is fueling such thoughts! Never heard of soup dumplings...... need to google.....

evan

[Diann]

this thread is fueling such thoughts! 

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I know! I'm going to Montreal tomorrow (yes...I'm going somewhere where it's even COLDER than here. Good planning!) but I can't wait to get back and start trying all of these places.

Never heard of soup dumplings...... need to google.....

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If you haven't googled it yet, they're similar to regular dumplings except they're round, always steamed, and they contain some broth inside (along with the regular meat/vegetable filling). So you can easily injure yourself when biting into one because of the hot "soup" spurting out, but I'm willing to burn my tongue for some.

Thanks a bunch to all for the suggestions. I'd never heard of Four Rivers and that's exactly why I posted on this board. Forgot to add Shiao Lan Kung to the original list since I read about it all the time here!

P.S. What's this sweet chicken (xoi ga) dish at Ba Le? My experience with Vietnamese food is limited to pho and bahn mi's and such. Need to start branching out...

[elicious]

I actually wrote a review of Shiao Lan Kung when I lived in Philly and wrote for Citysearch if any of you want more info about it.

[Capaneus]

I have a trustworthy friend who's a big fan of the food at Ray's coffee shop. I love the coffee, but have never eaten the food.

You may continue to trust your friend. I like Ray's not only because the food is good in its own right, but because it's different from everything else in Chinatown. My (possibly mistaken) recollection is that it's Taiwanese.

Otherwise, I'll second the rest of the crew, adding only that I like Imperial Inn for dim sum (and only for dim sum).

[herbacidal]

tai lake is great for whole steamed or fried fish.  mmmmm whole steamed fish.

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Wow, I've never known a non-Chinese individual to actually like steamed fish.

Tolerate it, yes. But actually like it, you're the first.

Rock on!! I love it when people destroy preconceptions, even my own.

[Andrew Fenton]

tai lake is great for whole steamed or fried fish.  mmmmm whole steamed fish.

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Wow, I've never known a non-Chinese individual to actually like steamed fish.

Tolerate it, yes. But actually like it, you're the first.

Ahem. Make that two.

I always get the steamed fish at Charles Plaza (where I seem to eat inexplicably often); they do it pretty well, with a nice ginger sauce. But the best Chinese steamed fish I've had was at a restaurant in Cincinnati, of all places.

Edited March 4, 2005 by Andrew Fenton (log)

[stephenc]

North Sea for seafood.

Lakeside for cheap ass rice dishes.

A lot of places can make you bitter melon/ fuzzy melon dishes. Just ask them if they have it......

Chinatown is almost 100% cantonese. For Szechuan, theres a place on Arch next to Joe Poon. Sorry I don't know the name. For the very best Szechuan, you gotta go out to NJ or the 'burbs.

Theres also a couple places owned by Taiwanese or Fujian owners, but not many. There is not one Shanghai restaurant in Chinatown as I recall.

[stephenc]

If by soup dumplings, you mean "shao lung bao", then the best place to get them, again, is out in the 'burbs.

Margaret Kuo makes a mean dumpling for dim sum. She has like a billion restaurants, but I'll go to the one in Malvern if visiting folks out there.

The aforementioned good Szechuan is called Tifco, out in Exton. Incredibly spicy stuff, you gotta ask for their "chinese menu", unless you're chinese.

Hmm, dunno where to get lion head meatballs, since I rarely order them when I go out, but I can easily make them for you if you give me half an hour.

[mrbigjas]

Hmm, dunno where to get lion head meatballs, since I rarely order them when I go out, but I can easily make them for you if you give me half an hour.

awesome! it's 10:35 now, and i like to have lunch noonish. plenty of time, right?

[mrbigjas]

tai lake is great for whole steamed or fried fish.  mmmmm whole steamed fish.

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Wow, I've never known a non-Chinese individual to actually like steamed fish.

Tolerate it, yes. But actually like it, you're the first.

i like it so much i make it at home on a regular basis. hmm... maybe i'll make it tonight as a matter of fact.

[Andrew Fenton]

Okay, this has me in the mood for Chinese food. I think I'll head to SLK for dinner tomorrow night. What should I get there? Katie mentioned oysters and dumplings. I seem to remember that salt-baked seafood was good there, too. What else is good?

(also, if you want to come along, PM me. Shh!)

[shacke]

P.S. What's this sweet chicken (xoi ga) dish at Ba Le? My experience with Vietnamese food is limited to pho and bahn mi's and such. Need to start branching out...

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That is a dish that I grew to love in San Francisco. It is a baked chicken with a sweet marinade served over bed of sticky sweet rice. It is served room temp so you go in there and take it off the counter. So easy and so good. If you try it, report back. I get it at Ba Le whenever I go, although with vietnames coffee - now THATS a hyper-sweet buzz, a concoction of strong coffee and sweetened condensed milk!

evan

[Andrew Fenton]

Had dinner at Shiao Lan Kung with the mrbigjases. Holy mackerel, what a great dinner. The place was crowded enough on a Saturday at 7:30 that we had to wait a little while for dinner. No worries; it gave us time to read all the glowing reviews posted on the windows outside and decide what to order. Also to pick up some beer to supplement the bottle of Spy Valley riesling we'd brought along.

Our waitress was great: friendly, cracking jokes, and-- best of all-- giving us honest advice on the menu without talking down to the non-Chinese. When I ordered the salt-baked shrimp and almost committed the error of getting them shell-off, she steered me right: "the shells have more flavor," she instructed me. "And they're crispy!" She was right. I tend to be leery about shrimp shells: I know they're edible, but so are fingernails, and I don't want an order of those. But these shells were delicate, crispy and packed with flavor.

We knew we wanted won ton soup, and were informed that there are two ways to go: roast pork won ton (old school, thicker noodles) and Hong Kong style (new school, thin noodles). We went for the latter, and it was some of the best won ton soup I've had: elegant, tiny dumplings in a mild broth. For double-dumpling action, we also had the fried dumplings: plump, robust, juicy.

We asked for another appetizer recommendation and got the seaweed roll: sort of a roulade with a shrimp puree (sort of like Vietnamese shrimp on sugarcane) wrapped inside seaweed and fried, served with hoisin sauce. I've never had anything like it before: it had a great crispy texture and a nice flavor.

Biggest surprise of the night were snow pea leaves sauteed in garlic. It was simple in preparation (not too much different than other sauteed greens you've had) but mind-blowingly good. I need to find a source of pea shoots, and then I'm going to make them myself, every day of the week.

The final entrees were kung pao chicken (a solid example of the dish) and the piece of resistance: a whole sea bass, steamed with black bean sauce. Again, great flavor with the scallions and the ginger and the black beans and the hey hey. The waitress was again very helpful, telling us to be sure not to miss the cheeks: "they're the best part!" But jas was way ahead of her: he's tricky that way.

Need I mention how cheap the dinner was? All that food came out to a measly $22 a person, with tax and tip and the whole bit. Yow.

[shacke]

Biggest surprise of the night were snow pea leaves sauteed in garlic.  It was simple in preparation (not too much different than other sauteed greens you've had) but mind-blowingly good.  I need to find a source of pea shoots, and then I'm going to make them myself, every day of the week.

way.

Andrew - aren't those snow pea leaves awesome! Unfortunately they are seasonal and not available all times of the year. I routinely get them in Cherry Hill at Hahn Ah Reum behind the Korea Garden restaurant on 70, about 10 minutes from Ben Fran. Bridge. I have also gotten them in chinatown markets. It can be tough to ID veggies in the markets in Chinatown but the trick to these leaves are the little curly-cues that eminate from the stems. That's them!

Incindentally, there is a secret gem for Korean BBQ off Roosevelt Blvd at the adams ave exit. $12.50 bul ki all you can eat - all BBQ meats(raw beef short rib,marinated beef, pork chicken, gizzards, squid, fatty bacon and tripe, some kimchi and condiments - no dishes on the menu. Great people - they know me well. I have been going there for years since I was a poor medical resident. Korea Garden is not authentic wood BBQ at your table - this place is and it's called Kuk Il. You will smell for days of smoke - beware! It would be a great cheap place for PA gulleteers to meet up one day.

Evan

[mrbigjas]

that spy valley is a great wine for the price--i think it's $11.99--and was a perfect choice for this dinner. it's got a kind of limey, orange blossom-y floral thing going on at first, but then follows that up with plenty of taut acidity enough to cut through things like fried dumplings and fried seaweed shrimp roll.

so anyway the only other thing is that we got the fish in spicy bean sauce, rather than black bean. because i never saw that before--it seems like the standard choices are black bean or ginger scallion when you get that dish. it was freakin good.

it seems like it's so easy to make perfectly acceptable pretty good chinese food, and few places really step up and take it to that next level. shiao lan kung is one that does. excellent, really.

[KatieLoeb]

Yowza y'all!! Sounds like a great dinner! Shiao Lan Kung is a fave of mine too, but I'll have to put myself in the hands of a capable waitperson next time. Sounds like they steered you right.

[Andrew Fenton]

Yowza y'all!!  Sounds like a great dinner!  Shiao Lan Kung is a fave of mine too, but I'll have to put myself in the hands of a capable waitperson next time.  Sounds like they steered you right.

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No doubt. It's always nice to get introduced to some dishes you might not have tried otherwise. New favorites, hooray!