Chopsticks

[AlisonA]

I do ask for chopsticks, and often use them at home as well.  I also sometimes ask for a small rice bowl, so that I can hold it under a bite of food to catch drips.

My understanding is that Thais only use chopsticks for noodles, and forks and spoons otherwise.  Oh, and I've also been told that it's rude in a Korean restaurant to hold a bowl in your hand, which I tend to do with soup and rice.  If this isn't correct, somebody please straighten me out!  I like to know how to be polite, even if I don't always manage to do it.

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Over two decades ago I worked in a deli with many Thai nationals - some who had imigrated so recently they did not speak much english. I remember one of my first meals with them, I was eager to show off my chopsticks skills. When we sat down to eat I saw only a fork and a spoon at the place setting, no chopsitcks. Curious I asked where they were. I was told something along the lines of 'only country bumpkins who can't afford silverware use chopsticks. Civilized people from the cities use a fork and spoon.'

Recently lamenting the lack of chopsticks at our local chinese restaurant my husband pondered if this attitude had prevaded other mainland asian cultures in the past twenty years. Who knows.

AlisonA

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The attitude hasn't prevaded other mainland Asian cultures nor has it Japan. Thank goodness, because it's one the most ridiculous, snooty things I've ever heard.

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Different cultures, different attitudes about utensils not to mention table ettiquette as others have pointed out.

Good to know that this dogma has not become wide spread though given it's negativity to rural culture.

AlisonA

[jhlurie]

I'm tempted to can this entire discussion because obviously some tempers are running hot here. But let's try something simpler first--a simple appeal to "cool it".

Traditions differ. The way that people react to traditions differ. The way people joke about traditions or reactions to traditions differ. If something offends you, fine, we aren't looking to control that. But we expect a level of civility here when discussing that reaction--both from the person who was offended AND anyone reacting to that perceived offense.

Starting...

Now.

[petite tête de chou]

I'm tempted to can this entire discussion because obviously some tempers are running hot here.  But let's try something simpler first--a simple appeal to "cool it".

Traditions differ.  The way that people react to traditions differ.  The way people joke about traditions or reactions to traditions differ.  If something offends you, fine, we aren't looking to control that.  But we expect a level of civility here when discussing that reaction--both from the person who was offended AND anyone reacting to that perceived offense.

Starting...

Now.

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<applauding...with chopsticks in hand. >

[torakris]

In Japan most western foods are eaten with western utensils. I had a lunch at one of my favorite Italian places the other day and a fork and spoon were set at every place.

At restaurants that serve a variety of foods, both western and Asian, the cutlery comes after you make your order. A spoon for those with curry, a fork and knife for those with steak, a pair of chopsticks for those with a rice dish.

Many times western food here is served with a choice of bread or rice, in these cases the rice will come out on a plate and is then eaten with the fork.

Even in many homes, western foods will be eaten with western utensils, one main exception being spaghetti.....

[petite tête de chou]

In Japan most western foods are eaten with western utensils. I had a lunch at one of my favorite Italian places the other day and a fork and spoon were set at every place.

At restaurants that serve a variety of foods, both western and Asian, the cutlery comes after you make your order. A spoon for those with curry, a fork and knife for those with steak, a pair of chopsticks for those with a rice dish.

Many times western food here is served with a choice of bread or rice, in these cases the rice will come out on a plate and is then eaten with the fork.

Even in many homes, western foods will be eaten with western utensils, one main exception being spaghetti.....

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Kristin,

Really? <she asks wide eyed> Folks in Japan eat spaghetti with chopsticks? Like, the tomato-sauced, sometimes meaty stuff. Parmesan, too?

[torakris]

Kristin,

Really? <she asks wide eyed> Folks in Japan eat spaghetti with chopsticks? Like, the tomato-sauced, sometimes meaty stuff. Parmesan, too?

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Well they are usually eating Japanese style spaghetti, which usually doesn't have a heavy tomato sauce. I actually prefer to eat certain Japan spaghetti dishes with chopsticks as well.....

[NulloModo]

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that rules of manners should only apply in those areas where the rules were developed. If sticking your chopsticks upright in your bowl of rice is considered rude in China, then of course, don't do it in China. If you are eating dinner with a Chinese family in the US, and they observe traditional Chinese manners, then don't do it with them. But in your run of the mill restaurant in the US, eating with others who don't abide by Chinese manners, why bother with that one? Sticking chopsticks upright means nothing to me, so why shouldn't I do it if it won't offend my dining companions? There is no reason to add even more silly rules to life then we already have.

Taking that a step further, it makes just as much sense to me to use the dining tools native to your upbringing or current location as it does to use those original to the type of food. If you were brought up with a knife and fork, and are more comfortable with a knife and fork, why should you use chopsticks? I mean, if it makes you feel better to be more authentic, then go for it, but really, why should anyone else care what implements you use to eat with? So use chopsticks if you want, don't use them if you want. Observe the set of manners local to where you are, or those local to what you are eating, but no reason to have to do it all, or say one option is better than the other. Really, the only thing I could think of that would be totally innapropriate would be a couple of Texans (nothing against Texans here, it just rolls of the tongue easier than Delawareans) eating in a Chinese restuarant in China using fingers as appropriate to a Morrocan place. I mean, hey, as long as what you are doing ties in with either where you are from, where you are, or where the food or your hosts is from, you should be fine.

[Dejah]

I am familiar with the traditional rule of not sticking your chopsticks into your rice.

I never do that, not because of tradition, but because I keep having visions of hitting the top ends of the chopsticks and flicking mounds of rice and morsels over others at the table!

My Scottish hubby always use chopsticks when we have Chinese food. Everyone else may opt for forks, but he says Chinese food doesnt taste right with cutlery.

[spaghetttti]

I love chopsticks and have begun to collect them. Just brought back some from Korea, it was startling to me that they use stainless steel ones.

If tradition rules that chopsticks are not to be stabbed into the rice bowl, what does one do with them, lay them across the top of the bowl? Are there Chinese chopstick rests like the Japanese ones?

Edited February 3, 2005 by spaghetttti (log)

[Jinmyo]

Stabbing the hashi (chopsticks) into a bowl is like leaving a fork standing up from a baked potato.

It just means you don't much know how the world works.

Laying the hashi across the bowl is just fine.

[jhlurie]

Stabbing the hashi (chopsticks) into a bowl is like leaving a fork standing up from a baked potato.

It just means you don't much know how the world works.

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To me this last statement is the truest so far. If it's done incorrectly it's usually due to ignorance, not rude intent.

[chefzadi]

How OTHER parts of the world work.

[Jinmyo]

How OTHER parts of the world work.

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Hashi. Stuck in rice.

Fork. Stuck in potato.

If we do this, it doesn't much matter where we are, we're a doof and take that with us until we learn to look up and see what's around us.

[chefzadi]

How OTHER parts of the world work.

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Hashi. Stuck in rice.

Fork. Stuck in potato.

If we do this, it doesn't much matter where we are, we're a doof and take that with us until we learn to look up and see what's around us.

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Universals in regards to manners? Maybe I'm missing something in your statement. I've said several times a genius in one cuisine is an ape in another. We're all doofs in one context or another.

[spaghetttti]

There's a little quiz on dining cultures which is very enlightening. If you haven't taken it, give it a whirl!

[Hiroyuki]

Kristin,

Really? <she asks wide eyed> Folks in Japan eat spaghetti with chopsticks? Like, the tomato-sauced, sometimes meaty stuff. Parmesan, too?

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Well they are usually eating Japanese style spaghetti, which usually doesn't have a heavy tomato sauce. I actually prefer to eat certain Japan spaghetti dishes with chopsticks as well.....

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torakris is quite right, but I can eat any type of spaghetti with chopsticks, and any other type of food for that matter. Suppose that you have spaghetti and other dishes (Japanese dishes) on the table, do you want to switch between a fork and chopsticks? I certainly don't. I'm a typical Japanese in that regard.

My parents, who are now in their 70s, do not know how to use a knife and fork properly. No wonder, because they have never been trained. I had to teach myself how to do it in my 20s. You don't want to make silly mistakes in front of your girlfriend at a restaurant, do you?

The Japanese would be helpless if deprived of chopsticks. We just couldn't do anything related to food - mixing, making tempura, stir-frying, decorating, and what have you.

[chefzadi]

Hiroyuki-san

I showed my wife your post and she feels the same way. I think that chopsticks ad an extenstion of ones fingers, sort of like knives are an extension of a chef's hand. What would we do without them? After using chopsticks I find them to be not only the best utensil for eating certain types of food, but even when I'm cooking I want/need to use them.

[Gastro888]

But it's always a good sign when I'm on a date and I see the guy I'm with can use chopsticks.

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Yep! I should've know this one date was trouble when he was crossing his chopsticks as he was picking up sushi...

[Pan]

[...]

I have noticed, and maybe I am alone here but I doubt it, the lack of respect for chopsticks here in the west.  In my town there are 7 Chinese restraunts, one of which prides themselves on traditional Szechuan fare, 1 Himalayan restraunt, a Japanese sushi bar, a pho shop, and a Vietnamese restaurant that serves many regional northern dishes but not pho.  That's a total of 11 places, and only one (the sushi bar) puts chop sticks out instead of forks, and only two others (the Vietnamese joints) have chopsticks in the back you can ask for.

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Here in New York, chopsticks are offered as a matter of course or by request in every Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, and Korean restaurant I go to. Thai restaurants also typically offer them here. At Malaysian restaurants, you have a choice between a fork and spoon or chopsticks, which conforms to Malaysian practice, where members of the Chinese community often use chopsticks for fried noodles and noodle soups, while all Malaysians use their hands for roti canai and a spoon and fork for most other dishes (in some places, Malays use their hands for most everything but soup and such). Like some others here, I find the metal Korean chopsticks too thin to use, but I am very comfortable with wooden chopsticks and I suppose I'm at least as proficient with chopsticks as with a fork. I use chopsticks every time I have Chinese, Japanese, or Vietnamese food, with Malaysian noodle dishes, and with Korean food, along with a spoon. I do not use chopsticks for Thai food, and I use a fork for most other types of food.

My questions:

A decision to use chopsticks should be based on A) the menu, B) where you are (in the world), C) whatever you like, or D) all the above?

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All of the above, but mostly the type of cuisine.

Does anyone else find that chopsticks are not getting their just respect, even at Asian restaurants?[...]

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Chopsticks are pretty common in New York. I could stand not to have them automatically offered at Thai restaurants, as a matter of fact.

I guess my feeling is that, for me, using chopsticks is part of the experience of having Chinese (etc.) food, and using a knife and fork is part of the experience of having French (etc.) food.

[Gastro888]

As for chopsticks, how do y'all like yours? Bamboo, laquer, metal? Round, square?

Me, I prefer the bamboo type that are round with tapered ends. The square ones are ok. The thinner the better. We have some black bamboo chopsticks at home. My parents use them but for me, I would rather not since I have a choice.

The laquered ones are lovely but for some reason food tastes best to me with bamboo chopsticks. Peasant girl roots...you can take the girl out of the rice paddy but...

[chefzadi]

My in laws gave us a set of engraved, lacquer inlayed silver Korean style chopsticks (does this make sense in English? As wedding gifts. they gave us miniatures for the kids later) My wife is adept at using every manner of chopsticks. I find the Japanese ones the easiest to use.

[Yuki]

There are four different types of chopsticks in my house

- wooden, mostly for cooking. Although I prefer to eat with wooden chopsticks.

- plastic, everyday eating

- ivory, engraved with our names but are mainly for display

- speical chopsticks used when offering food to the ancestors

My parents were not strict about how I hold the chopsticks but my uncle was. When I was living with my uncle, I would get a light slap on my hand when I was not holding the chopsticks the "proper" way. After a couple meal, I learned the "proper" way to hold the chopsticks.

I have no problem with other people using other utensils to eat Asian food but just do it in a way that will not harm the food or bring more trouble to yourself. It just seems wrong for me to stab a piece of sashimi with a fork or eating rice off a plate with chopsticks. I hope that the restaurant would offer the traditional utensil since it usually makes the meal more special. Also, I think the people that invented the utensils also made sure they would match the cuisine well. Imagine eating a small piece of bone on chicken, with chopsticks, you can rotate the chicken to every possible angle to bring the meat to your mouth.

[Ben Hong]

I have only bamboo chopsticks of various lengths in my house. Lacquer, plastic, ivory are too smooth and I have trouble picking up slippery bits of food with them, sometimes.

[spaghetttti]

I may have them all, but like Ben, I prefer the bamboo ones. The slender, tapered chopsticks are great for just about all my cooking/eating pleasures.

[Hiroyuki]

In Japan, we usually use sai bashi for cooking purposes, like these:

http://img2.store.yahoo.co.jp/I/lamd_1831_9918770

They are made of wood or bamboo.

For eating, all my family use wooden chopsticks coated with epoxy resin.