THE BEST: Chinese Dumplings

[Gastro888]

My guess is that they just use fatty pork.  When you're selling dumplings five for a dollar and making a living, I don't think you're bumping up your food cost with jellied stock.

←

Fatty pork? All the better...

But do you really think it significantly increases their food cost? Soup dumplings don't usually cost much more than fried dumplings, do they?

←

Off topic, but soup dumplings do cost more. In terms of labor and overhead, you have alot more going into soup dumplings. To make a good soup dumpling you have to make aspic and that costs time and money. "Wor tip" or "jiaozi" doesn't involve as much labor/food cost.

Fatty pork rules. Hands down. 'Sides, one must feed da booty ya know....

[Bux]

On the corner of Mott St., I think it is Hop Sing or Woo Hop.

On the side is a little stand, that this women used to sell hot asian sweet ????? idun know but they are good!

Can somebody help me here?!

←

On the corner of Mosco Street (or is it alley, or is it even Mosco)? Are you referring the woman selling "hot cakes?" There are a number of stands around selling these litte balls of pancake or waffle batter. They're always sold as "hot cakes" -- sometimes as "Hong Kong hot cakes" -- although once I noticed a stand where they were being made faster than they were being sold and little bags of them were piling up. It occured to me that they weren't selling like hot cakes.

←

Well Bux,

I was referring to the dim sum, and got caught-up in the sub referencing.

However, I have found it.

BTW,

I get the impression that you don't like asian hot cakes.

Sun Hop Shing Tea House 21 Mott St (212) 962-8650

←

My mistake, I thought you were referring to the stand, not the restaurant near the stand. I don't have strong feelings about those hot cakes or egg cakes. I don't know that I've bought them since my daughter grew up. When I bought them for her, I also ate them. If I'm in Chinatown and want a snack, I'd probably buy a pork bun somewhere rather than the hot cakes. The hot cake lady on Mosco usually can't make them fast enough, but once on Canal Street I saw a vendor who couldn't sell his fast enough and I though it amusing that they weren't selling like hotcakes. They are among the least Asian tasting of anything in the neighborhood with the exception of Hagen Daaz ice cream. They are very much like pancakes or waffles, but not as dry or crisp as waffles.

[Todd36]

There is a retail/wholesale dumpling place that I think is on the north side of Grand Street, pretty far to the east. They sell all sorts of buns and dumplings retail and wholesale. Their soup dumplings are more expensive than their plain pork dumplings, but if I'm thinking right not 5 times more expensive.

Edited January 25, 2005 by Todd36 (log)

[Bux]

There is a retail/wholesale dumpling place that I think is on the north side of Grand Street, pretty far to the east.  They sell all sorts of buns and dumplings retail and wholesale.  Their soup dumplings are more expensive than their plain pork dumplings, but if I'm thinking right not 5 times more expensive.

←

Between Mulberry and Elizabeth Streets. We buy bags of the frozen dumplings and boil them. They were recommended by a friend and they're pretty good. At least the two varieties we've bought were good. Never tried cooking the soup dumplings. I only recall the number 5 coming into play up thread in terms of the 5 for a dollar dumplings. I don't recall anyone suggesting soup dumplings are five times as expensive to make. Maybe one fifth more trouble and expense. They rarely sell for that much more in restaurants. Goodies on East Broadway has been offering orders of them dirt cheap -- something like 8 dumplings for $2.50, one order per individual. They have a good reputation for their dumplings too. I suppose it's a loss leader. They're practically right next door to Dim Sum GoGo.

[Todd36]

I guess I was thinking that while there are places that survive selling 5 dumplings for a dollar, the normal price for soup dumplings is about 5 times as high. The wholesale place has a smaller difference in pricing ratio I think. I don't think that "stock" inside a soup dumpling is "stock" (or aspic) in the French sense....one website says it's boiled pig skin, which makes sense, a very low cost ingredent loaded with the gelatin needed for a soup dumpling. This goes back to the aspic point people were making. All of these dumpling places must have some techniques for reducing costs. Much as I like them myself.....

I don't know if people care about this but I think at least one well known dumpling place was recently closed by the board of health for a while.

[Fat Guy]

I probably should have noted above that the only one of the five-for-a-dollar dumpling places where I have had inferior dumplings even under optimal circumstances (busy time, fresh from the wok) is the Fried Dumpling branch on Mosco Street.

[jogoode]

I also grabbed a few dumplings from the branch of Fried Dumpling on Mosco. The awful specimens I had confirmed what Steven wrote somewhere upthread: If you go to the 5-for-a-dollar places when they're busy and get dumplings straight from the skillet, you're golden. If the dumplings have been sitting around for a while, as mine clearly had been on Friday...

←

I probably should have noted above that the only one of the five-for-a-dollar dumpling places where I have had inferior dumplings even under optimal circumstances (busy time, fresh from the wok) is the Fried Dumpling branch on Mosco Street.

←

Bastard.

[Gastro888]

I guess I was thinking that while there are places that survive selling 5 dumplings for a dollar, the normal price for soup dumplings is about 5 times as high.  The wholesale place has a smaller difference in pricing ratio I think.  I don't think that "stock" inside a soup dumpling is "stock" (or aspic) in the French sense....one website says it's boiled pig skin, which makes sense, a very low cost ingredent loaded with the gelatin needed for a soup dumpling.  This goes back to the aspic point people were making.  All of these dumpling places must have some techniques for reducing costs.  Much as I like them myself.....

I don't know if people care about this but I think at least one well known dumpling place was recently closed by the board of health for a while.

←

How could boiled pig skin produce a stock/aspic like product inside a soup dumpling? Even if you boiled it for hours on end, you'd still get a wad of skin and there's not much gelatin in skin to be had - if at all. You couldn't put true stock in a soup dumpling - how would you close it? It has to be an aspic-type substance in order for you to close the dumpling and cook it. Otherwise, you'd get a big ol' mess.

(Savuer magazine had a very good recipe for soup dumplings in 2004 - I'll post the info later - if I can find it! )

As for dumpling houses being closes for health reasons, I've been in high-end restaurants where I've seen some health code violations.

[Bux]

My experience is that tossing in a large piece of pigskin, perhaps from a hunk of fat back, will give an unctuous quality to the sauce when braising a stew or pot roast.

[Gastro888]

Believe me, I'll be the first to praise the power of pork fat! (or skin!)

Not denying that, however, imagine trying to spoon liquid in a dumpling and closing the bugger. It'd ooze through...*squish*

Unfortunately, the recipe is not on Savuer.com. It is in a 2004 issue...bah.

[phaelon56]

Just curious. Has anyone seen green dumplings like these in NYC?

They seem nearly ubiquitous in the nicer Chinese take-out places in Paris - most all of the window displays have them. We were already stuffed when I took this pic and never had a chance to try them. The label indicated something about "legumes aux ravioli". I couldn't tell whether the green color was due to the contents or if the dumpling skin itself.

[Gastro888]

They probably used some sort of vegetable to dye the dough that color. I don't think a filling could make the whole dumpling green like that. It could be a vegetarian dumpling. It kinda looks like kueh instead of a dumpling! =)

[slkinsey]

Those green ones on the left look suspiciously like the thick, doughy, disgusting (to me) steamed vegetable dumplings sold by the typical UWS/UES "Ming's Empire Cottage Balcony Garden Chinese" delivery place.

[bergerka]

Having just returned from an excursion (with SarahD and Eric_Malson) to the Fried Dumpling at Eldridge & Broome streets, I can vouch that the dumplings remain juicy and porky inside, crunchy and chewy outside, hot and delicious.

And that the hot & sour soup is my favorite version...ever.

And that the sesame pancake with beef is the perfect end to a perfect day.

And that in total I spent $3.50.

K

[Bux]

A few random thoughts. I assume pigskin acts just as feet and bones do to provide gelatin which is the reason aspic gels. I've never been sure how the juice gets into soup dumplings, but I've always suspected it may have been frozen. The meat itself will provide some juice as is evidenced by many boiled or fried dumplings. A recipe source would be interesting.

I suspect the price comparison between the five for a dollar fried dumplings and soup dumplings is unfair or misleading. The price differential between fried dumplings and soup dumplings is not that great, and maybe there isn't a difference, when purchased in the same restaurant. The five for a dollar places aren't restaurants. The level of comfort, ambience, decor, amenities and whatever, is considerably down scale from most fast food joints, as is the kitchen equipment. Consistency is not something they have going for them either, although the one on Mosco seems pretty consistent. It's good to know I've hit them on their good days and shouldn't expect better the next time. The one on Eldridge has been consistently tastry, but the crispness and state of the skin is another story. Still five tasty pork and chive meatballs for a buck isn't all that bad.

[Mistinguett]

I watched how the soup dumplings are made at a restaurant in Flushing while waiting to place a take-out order.

The ladies had 2 big bowls in front of them - one with the meat mixture and the other one with something lighter in color and smoother (like a creamy ground product), looking slightly gelatinous. After placing a small amout of the meat in the wrapper, a smaller amount of the mystery filling was placed next to the meat and the wrapper was closed.

From the looks of it I assumed it's a little more than just a reduced bone soup. A recipe would be interesting indeed.

[Gastro888]

A recipe for xiao long bao can be found here. This recipe calls for the use of aspic. The Savuer April 2004 issue is the one with the great recipe. Unfortunately, I don't have that issue nor is it online.

Edited January 28, 2005 by Gastro888 (log)

[Todd36]

I found this recipe at http://www.galaxylink.com.hk/~john/food/co...xiaolongbao.htm

The "soup" part only reads:

Soup

180 grams skin of pork

225 grams chicken breast

140 grams pork

60 grams chinese ham

1 scallion

2 slices ginger

chinese rice wine

salt

Wash and clean pork skin. Parboil in boiling water with the chicken breast and ham. Place all the meat in a saucepan with 6 cups of water. Add scallion and ginger and bring to the boil. Reduce heat and simmer till pork skin is soft. Continue simmering till only 2 cups of liquid remains. Strain and reserve the liquid keeping the pork skin. Diced the saved pork skin. Whizz the pork skin and liquid in a blender till milky. Season with salt and leave to cool. Use before it gelatinizes.

I am sure the pork skin is the source of the gelatin, interesting how they puree the pork skin as well.

[slkinsey]

This is an odd recipe, Todd, because the soup is actually mixed in to the filling. I don't see how this would produce what we commonly understand to be xaiolongbao filling (i.e., a meatball surrounded by soup).

Not sure why people think otherwise, but pork skin is chock full of gelatin. As these guys at the NC State School of Engineering say: "The best raw material for the derivation of gelatin is pork skin."

[Todd36]

This is an odd recipe, Todd, because the soup is actually mixed in to the filling.  I don't see how this would produce what we commonly understand to be xaiolongbao filling (i.e., a meatball surrounded by soup).

Good point. Maybe there is a translation problem (given that the recipe uses metric measurements, I wonder where it came from originally). Or maybe when you cook it, you wind up with a ball? I admit that doesn't make sense to me either. On the other hand, the input ingredents seem right compared to what you usually see, pork skin and chinese ham make sense to me for something that you might actually find in Shangahi. Don't know about the Chicken Breast though...

I found this:

"The article includes a recipe to make the dumplings at home, and Ms. True reveals the secret behind the soup. The rich liquid comes from small cubes of aspic made from pork skin that is mixed into the filling. As the filling steams, the aspic melts--turning from solid into liquid--and soup dumplings are born."

Maybe mixing is the way to go?

http://www.thefoodsection.com/foodsection/..._soup_dump.html

I can't figure out how to link to it, but there is an eGullet thread on this, "Little Steamed Juicy Buns, Should I add gelatin to filling?"

It seems standard recipes do mix the soup right into the filling.

[slkinsey]

I can't figure out how to link to it, but there is an eGullet thread on this,  "Little Steamed Juicy Buns, Should I add gelatin to filling?"

It seems standard recipes do mix the soup right into the filling.

Here's the thread.

I'm still not totally convinced about mixing the soup into the pork -- although it makes a bit more sense to mix cubes of gelatinized stock into the pork as opposed to liquid soup (the recipe you found says "use before it gelatinizes").

We should get someone to ask Cecil at China 46 what he does to make his.

[tcavallo]

I've enjoyed the fried dumplings at Dumpling House until I "discovered" the NGB ones.

←

Really? I was appalled when last year at my first and only time at New Green Bo I had rather standard soup and fried dumplings. I've also tried both at Yeah Shanghai, and preferred Yeah's to NGB's. Dumpling House can not be beat, in my opinion, but I'll have to hit NGB again and perform a more systematic comparison. And then I need to go to Flushing!

←

OK, whats the deal here. I went to New Green Bo for the first time today (after helping my GF's sister move into her new place around the corner) and the soup dumplings were terrible. The "soup" tasted like straight sesame oil. I was unable to taste any crab, and I could BARELY differentiate the crab from the crab/pork dumplings. As a matter of fact I could taste nothing but sesame for the rest of the day. The wrappers were no more delicate than Joe's, and they were just as large and sticky. Has anyone who has had such good things to say about them been there recently? Did somebody mis-label a bottle of sesame oil today?

[Gastro888]

This is an odd recipe, Todd, because the soup is actually mixed in to the filling.  I don't see how this would produce what we commonly understand to be xaiolongbao filling (i.e., a meatball surrounded by soup).

Not sure why people think otherwise, but pork skin is chock full of gelatin.  As these guys at the NC State School of Engineering say: "The best raw material for the derivation of gelatin is pork skin."

←

But I don't think it would work in the soup dumpling receipe. Whirled pork skin won't give the same effect as aspic/jelled soup stock. I'm just thinking that you'd bite into the dumpling and this gritty liquid would gush forth instead of soup.

[slkinsey]

From Florence Fabricant in today's NY Times we learn that there may be a new serious player in the NYC dumpling scene:

[On 7 Feurbary 2005] Anita Lo and Kenny Lao are opening Rickshaw Dumpling Bar, a sleek place for inventive steamed and fried dumplings at 61 West 23rd Street, (212) 924-9220. Six varieties, including the fried Peking duck dumplings, are $4.95 for six, $6.95 for nine, steamed or fried.

Peking duck dumplings?! I'll certainly be trying them.

[jogoode]

From Florence Fabricant in today's NY Times we learn that there may be a new serious player in the NYC dumpling scene:

[On 7 Feurbary 2005] Anita Lo and Kenny Lao are opening Rickshaw Dumpling Bar, a sleek place for inventive steamed and fried dumplings at 61 West 23rd Street, (212) 924-9220. Six varieties, including the fried Peking duck dumplings, are $4.95 for six, $6.95 for nine, steamed or fried.

Peking duck dumplings?! I'll certainly be trying them.

←

Finally this place opens. Here's the thread on Rickshaw.