El Bulli--From wonderful to absurd

[robert brown]

Having a reservation at the world's most talked-about restaurant that you may never obtain again only to cancel it on something one small step up from heresay is folly. I hope you don't approach partaking in other creative endeavors the way that you do with food; i.e. how it tastes. There's a cognative element to food and dining just as there is to Abstract Expressionism, which, of course, you are free to be ignorant of, or absent yourself from, because it isn't about pretty pictures or everyday forms. There is something to be said for, "It wasn't my taste or to my liking, but I am glad I did it."

[Jonathan Day]

Discussions about the "deliciousness" of the food at a restaurant like el Bulli are always difficult.

Diner A: "I ate there and the food was wonderful. A range of tastes unlike anything I'd ever experienced. Dishes that danced in the mouth. Intellectually exciting and delicious."

Diner B: "I ate there, and it was terrible -- I mean, really, rabbit brains? Bat's wings? Foie gras pushed through a sieve? Octopus in toothpaste sauce? Who could eat stuff like that?"

A: "Well, the fact that you didn't like it means that your sensibilities are not well developed. Try again and try to taste with more of an open mind."

B: "The fact that you did like it means only that you are a slave to gastronomic fashion. You wouldn't have dared say you didn't like it, especially after all the trouble you went through to secure a reservation."

A: "Tastes develop over time. Children will declare that mashed potatoes is the benchmark for tasty food. Later they grow up and learn to enjoy all sorts of other tastes."

B: "I have been tasting for a long time, and my tastes are well developed. I don't need bizarre combinations in order to enjoy myself. And are you sure your tastes aren't all in your head? Get real."

And on it goes, with each side slagging off the other until the conversation grinds to a halt.

In the case of Lizziee, the poster who started this topic, or of Robert Brown, there have been multiple visits to el Bulli, with different experiences, and in both cases the diner's thoughtful reflections on the range of experiences are interesting. Even then, the conversation is a difficult one.

But what is the point of trumpeting the fact that another diner has not dined at el Bulli, or has cancelled a reservation? Any of us could name all sorts of restaurants we haven't dined at. So what? I suppose that if an important critic or tastemaker decided not to dine at el Bulli, it might be worth announcing, albeit briefly: "Steingarten cancels reservation at el Bulli." Hmm. Momentarily interesting. Noted. On we go.

Finally, I wonder whether we are engaged in a futile search for some sort of "essence" of a restaurant: is it "good"? Is it "bad"? Hence Pedro asks,

Does any of you have an opinion on how reliable Rachel cook is?. Just by chance, I've found an article from her on El Bulli, El Bulli on The Observer. It looks like she didn't enjoy her meal there.

Now we are chasing that elusive "essence" through the views of someone reviewing a reviewer: "My friend who went to two restaurants that Rachel Cooke disparaged, and he enjoyed both meals." Again, what does this tell us? Does it matter that Rachel Cooke is a novelist, not a restaurant critic, and that Robuchon praised Ferran Adria? I don't think so.

To my view, especially with a place like el Bulli, the best we can do is to say, "This is what I was looking for when I went to this restaurant, and this is what I experienced." That doesn't take us into total relativism, but it does acknowledge that there are interactions between the diner and the restaurant, and that we are not examining these dishes through a microscope but with a certain set of prior experiences and expectations, and that these background elements and interactions will affect our experience. Hence one diner's judgement that a restaurant is "good" or "bad" may be of little value to someone who approaches the restaurant with a very different set of prior experiences and expectations.

(For more on this, see Robert Brown's imporant comments on aesthetic distance in restaurant reviewing.)

[marcus]

Jonathan, when I look at your post in its entirety, the message that I get is that we should all pack up and go home.

[Bux]

As for participating in discussions I'm not going to be much of a participant if my values include food tasting good and others have values that focus on sensorial challenges and "getting in" along with who is "hot" and who isn't.  Further, some of the "food" that is presented at El Bulli is beginning to approach some of the, for me, bizarre and repulsive dishes found in parts of Indonesia, China and Vietnam.

You choose to enter this discussion and I'd say you'd have been a better participant if had first hand experience, even if you were prejudiced against the food before you entered the restaurant. To paraphrase Jonathan, I don't quite see what any of us will get just from the knowledge you've cancelled your reservation.

One can decide a restaurant is hot and fashionable and that's why people are talking about it, or we can accept that a restaurant is hot because people are talking ab out it. I suggest we look at who's speaking favorably about El Bulli. I'm afraid to name names because I might get one or two wrong, but my ears picked up when I started to read what world famous chefs were saying about Adria being a genious. His supporters both here and in France among chefs I respect are more numerous than his detractors. You cite a few chefs in DC, but you ignore many other favorites of yours elsewhere.

Brains are a delicacy in France, Italy and Spain. Rabbit is much more highly prized a food in those countries than it is here. Rabbit brains would not, in my mind, be a sign Adria was moving in a direction away from his Spanish traditions.

[Adam Balic]

....but my ears picked up when I started to read what world famous chefs were saying about Adria being a genious.

Mine too, you would think that world famous chefs could spell.

Brains are a delicacy in France, Italy and Spain. Rabbit is much more highly prized a food in those countries than it is here. Rabbit brains would not, in my mind, be a sign Adria was moving in a direction away from his Spanish traditions.

This is not logical. I think that you would have to look long and hard to find a tradition of regularly eating rabbit brains in any of the countries you have mentioned.

Edited November 3, 2003 by Adam Balic (log)

[slkinsey]

Brains are a delicacy in France, Italy and Spain. Rabbit is much more highly prized a food in those countries than it is here. Rabbit brains would not, in my mind, be a sign Adria was moving in a direction away from his Spanish traditions.

This is not logical. I think that you would have to look long and hard to find a tradition of regularly eating rabbit brains in any of the countries you have mentioned.

Perhaps so... but it does seem to me that those countries (a) do have traditions of eating animal brains and, (b) do have traditions of eating rabbit. As to whether or not they have traditions of eating rabbit brains specifically... that's harder to say.

My strong suspicion is that suchg traditions do exist, regardless of one's awareness of them. One might very well look at the United States and say that it is "hard to find a tradition of regularly eating squirrel brains" in the US. This would be a remark made in ignorance, however, because the fact is that eating squirrel brains is a very traditional practice in certain parts of the US -- so much so that the government issued a warning against it when it began to look like the consumption of squirrel brains was a vector for Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. My guess is that there is now, and definitely has been, a tradition of eating of rabbit brains in France, Italy and Spain.

[Adam Balic]

Brains are a delicacy in France, Italy and Spain. Rabbit is much more highly prized a food in those countries than it is here. Rabbit brains would not, in my mind, be a sign Adria was moving in a direction away from his Spanish traditions.

This is not logical. I think that you would have to look long and hard to find a tradition of regularly eating rabbit brains in any of the countries you have mentioned.

Perhaps so... but it does seem to me that those countries (a) do have traditions of eating animal brains and, (b) do have traditions of eating rabbit. As to whether or not they have traditions of eating rabbit brains specifically... that's harder to say.

My strong suspicion is that suchg traditions do exist, regardless of one's awareness of them. One might very well look at the United States and say that it is "hard to find a tradition of regularly eating squirrel brains" in the US. This would be a remark made in ignorance, however, because the fact is that eating squirrel brains is a very traditional practice in certain parts of the US -- so much so that the government issued a warning against it when it began to look like the consumption of squirrel brains was a vector for Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. My guess is that there is now, and definitely has been, a tradition of eating of rabbit brains in France, Italy and Spain.

Well if it your 'guess' that they 'definately' did (and I haven't suggested that somewhere, somewhen in thes countries, somebody didn't eat rabbit brains on a regular basis) then that means, eh, "definately a guess about something"?

The point would be is Adria drawing on a wider tradition of rabbit brain eating in Spain, as Bux seemed to suggest?

[vengroff]

Joe,

Since you are in the DC area, you might consider a lower risk introduction to Adria-influenced cuisine at Jose Andres's new minibar. Jose is a disciple, and at $65 it's a lot cheaper than a trip to Spain.

[Boris_A]

hard to find a tradition of regularly eating rabbit brains in any of the countries you have mentioned.

I've eaten a lot of veal brain in Italy.

I'v eaten a lot of rabbit in Italy and France.

I like to visit small, traditional restaurants.

But I've never seen a dish made specifically of rabbit brains (or ears).

I found a lot of veterinary stuff when googling with "cervello di coniglio", but I didn't find a single recipe for it.

And I can't remember of having seen a recipe in one of my Italian cookbooks

OTOH, when I prepare a rabbit, many times I made a tiny sautée of kidney, liver or the heart of the rabbit and eat is as a snack when cooking as I learned it from my old Italian uncle. Of course there are no recipes or dishes for this kind of food in books or restaurant.

Having this said, is there a wider tradition for dishes with rabbit kidney?

[Adam Balic]

Having this said, is there a wider tradition for dishes with rabbit kidney?

Just click your heels together and say "There's no tradition like eating rabbit kidneys" and POOF! there will be you tradition.

[slkinsey]

My guess is that there is now, and definitely has been, a tradition of eating of rabbit brains in France, Italy and Spain.

Well if it your 'guess' that they 'definately' did (and I haven't suggested that somewhere, somewhen in thes countries, somebody didn't eat rabbit brains on a regular basis) then that means, eh, "definately a guess about something"?

No... my guess is that there is a tradition now (and given relatively unknown traditions such as the aforementioned squirrel brain eating tradition in the US, I'd say it is a very strong guess -- and I note that you won't find dishes composed mostly of squirrel brains on any American restaurant menus either). I don't think there is any doubt that there has been a tradition of eating rabbit brains in the past, as all three of the countries in question have strong traditions of eating the whole animal from nose to tail. Countries that eat rabbit kidneys, rabbit livers, rabbit hearts, etc. are not going to turn up their noses at the brains. The example of traditions such as the American squirrel brain eating tradition suggests that the "common person's" -- or your -- awareness of such is not a litmus test when it comes to the authenticity of those traditions.

The point would be is Adria drawing on a wider tradition of rabbit brain eating in Spain, as Bux seemed to suggest?

I don't get that he is saying that at all. What I get is exactly what he said: People eat brains in these countries. People eat rabbit in these countries. Therefore using rabbit brains in a dish is not a break with tradition in the sense that it is related to these two traditions (certainly not any more of a break than anything else Adria does). This logical argument is not dependant on the supposition of "wider tradition of rabbit brain eating in Spain."

My feeling is that, given the foregoing, it is absolutely the case that there has been such a wider tradition in France, Italy and Spain. Regardless, that supposition is not necessary for Bux's contention that eating brains (a traditional practice) of rabbits (a traditional food) is not a break with Adria's Spanish traditions. As to whether there is a tradition of eating dishes made mostly or only out of rabbit brains... probably not. One would have to kill an awful lot of rabbits to make a single dish out of nothing but the brains. No doubt there is very little eating of things like rabbit brains in France, Italy and Spain these days because most people buy their rabbit rather than hunting it.

[slkinsey]

Having this said, is there a wider tradition for dishes with rabbit kidney?

I have eaten a ragu of rabbit organ meats -- presumably including the kidneys -- a time or two.

[Adam Balic]

My guess is that there is now, and definitely has been, a tradition of eating of rabbit brains in France, Italy and Spain.

Well if it your 'guess' that they 'definately' did (and I haven't suggested that somewhere, somewhen in thes countries, somebody didn't eat rabbit brains on a regular basis) then that means, eh, "definately a guess about something"?

No... my guess is that there is a tradition now (and given relatively unknown traditions such as the aforementioned squirrel brain eating tradition in the US, I'd say it is a very strong guess -- and I note that you won't find dishes composed mostly of squirrel brains on any American restaurant menus either). I don't think there is any doubt that there has been a tradition of eating rabbit brains in the past, as all three of the countries in question have strong traditions of eating the whole animal from nose to tail. Countries that eat rabbit kidneys, rabbit livers, rabbit hearts, etc. are not going to turn up their noses at the brains. The example of traditions such as the American squirrel brain eating tradition suggests that the "common person's" -- or your -- awareness of such is not a litmus test when it comes to the authenticity of those traditions.

The point would be is Adria drawing on a wider tradition of rabbit brain eating in Spain, as Bux seemed to suggest?

I don't get that he is saying that at all. What I get is exactly what he said: People eat brains in these countries. People eat rabbit in these countries. Therefore using rabbit brains in a dish is not a break with tradition in the sense that it is related to these two traditions (certainly not any more of a break than anything else Adria does). This logical argument is not dependant on the supposition of "wider tradition of rabbit brain eating in Spain."

My feeling is that, given the foregoing, it is absolutely the case that there has been such a wider tradition in France, Italy and Spain. Regardless, that supposition is not necessary for Bux's contention that eating brains (a traditional practice) of rabbits (a traditional food) is not a break with Adria's Spanish traditions. As to whether there is a tradition of eating dishes made mostly or only out of rabbit brains... probably not. One would have to kill an awful lot of rabbits to make a single dish out of nothing but the brains. No doubt there is very little eating of things like rabbit brains in France, Italy and Spain these days because most people buy their rabbit rather than hunting it.

As to whether there is a tradition of eating dishes made mostly or only out of rabbit brains... probably not.

I good you agree, I knew all the rest was just silly talk.

Just because you can imagine something, it doesn't make it real. I can't stress that enough.

[Boris_A]

Having this said, is there a wider tradition for dishes with rabbit kidney?

Just click your heels together and say "There's no tradition like eating rabbit kidneys" and POOF! there will be you tradition.

This doesnt' answer my question

[Jonathan Day]

Jonathan, when I look at your post in its entirety, the message that I get is that we should all pack up and go home.

If that's the message I have conveyed, Marcus, then I have to work harder.

I don't advocate a "whatever works for you" relativism. There are grades of technical skill in making the ingredients taste "like what they are" (the motto from Curnonsky that I've been using as a signature line). Some cooks, some restaurants, are generally better than others.

With that said, I am struck by how situated a diner's experience actually is, how much prior knowledge, age, expectations, and perhaps even physical characteristics of the diner will change perception of a dish or a meal. Before our children were born, my wife cheerfully ate gamey dishes like civet de chevreuil (venison) or civet de marcassin (young wild boar), or papardelle al lepre (pasta with sauce made from a hare). During each of three pregnancies, her taste for this sort of food changed, to the point that now she is almost unable to eat anything like these things. The diner's relationship to the restaurant can also be important: a place you travel halfway around the world to may be different to one that fits like an old shoe.

Now, as has often been pointed out on these boards, a good critic can overcome many of these issues. But this requires creating a certain objectivity in the meal, and that is hard to do on one visit. I'm impressed with a diner who ate at el Bulli, didn't enjoy it, but finished his review by saying he would return at least once, more likely twice, to try to get a better sense of the place. That is very different from condemning the restaurant (or conversely, labelling it "the best in the world") after a single visit, or worse, on the basis of hearsay.

One reason I enjoy restaurants and cooking so much is that they are wonderfully concrete, specific, a confrontation with the brute reality of the physical world, in contrast to the abstractions with which I spend most of my professional life. Yet it's striking how often we reduce the richness of a restaurant experience to abstract formulas: "nouvelle cuisine", "avant garde cookery", and so on. In the same way, it's all too easy to let the conceptual shock of a new ingredient or bizarre sounding preparation (e.g. rabbit brains, or parmesan "spaghetti", or ravioli made with milk skins) interfere with the sensory experience of the food. Children do this ("yuck! liver!"); sometimes they grow out of it, sometimes they never do.

Perhaps some of what Adria is about is forcing us to confront tastes more as they are than as we expect them, based on existing concepts of what "real cooking" consists of.

So, to Marcus's point: I hope we won't all pack up and go home. These things are worth debating and discussing. But I do think we would be well served by moving beyond the rather fruitless "Such-and-so is a good restaurant" vs "No it isn't" debates that have been applied to so many restaurants (Martin Berasetegui, Putney Bridge and Pied à Terre, Ducasse all come immediately to mind) around here. We need to find ways to let the dishes speak for themselves. If this group can't do that, what can?

[slkinsey]

I good you agree, I knew all the rest was just silly talk.

I'm glad we cleared that up, as I agree that breaking Bux's balls about whether or not Adria's use of rabbit brains was a sign the chef was moving in a direction away from his Spanish traditions was silly indeed.

Just because you can imagine something, it doesn't make it real. I can't stress that enough.

Indeed. I can't stress enough that, just because you are not aware of certain culinary traditions, ignorance doesn't mean that such traditions do not exist. Everything we know about the three countries under discussion leads one to presuppose that they would eat the brains of rabbits because they would eat all edible parts of the rabbit, as is their common practice with every animal. The assumption that Adria needed to draw on a Spanish tradition of eating dishes made exclusively of rabbit brains exists, as far as I can tell, only in your own mind.

[Adam Balic]

Nope, that is still silly. And impling my ignorance of some thing that may or may not exist, doesn't change that. I would have though that I had corrected enough of your mis-conceptions in the past, so that you would be a little less hasty. Never mind.

So what you are saying is that any country that has rabbits has at some point has most likely in your opinion eaten there brains, just not very often? Fair enough, can't argue with that, but that is a long way from "Drawing on blah, blah, Spanish traditions blah, blah". Maybe he is getting inspiration from 12th.C Norman cuisine, they had rabbits too.

[slkinsey]

I would have though that I had corrected enough of your mis-conceptions in the past, so that you would be a little less hasty.

Now, that's funny. Decorum restrains me from making the personal remark that springs to mind relating to this comment. I will, however, say that I haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about -- the discussion we had on "seltic" versus "keltic" pronunciation or perhaps the semantic definition of "aioli"? I will only offer that my interpretation of those discussions differs from your own.

So what you are saying is that any country that has rabbits has at some point has most likely in your opinion eaten there brains, just not very often? Fair enough, can't argue with that, but that is a long way from "Drawing on blah, blah, Spanish traditions blah, blah". Maybe he is getting inspiration from 12th.C Norman cuisine, they had rabbits too.

Let me see if I can lay this out for you, since you seem to be following a different discussion than I:

Bux says: Brains are a delicacy in France, Spain, Italy. So is rabbit. Therefore serving rabbit brains is not a break from Adria's Spanish roots.

You say: That's not logical [i.e., "you're wrong"]. There is no tradition of regularly eating rabbit brains in those countries.

I say: As to the tradition, they do eat brains and they do eat rabbit. Given the evidence we have in places like the US where we eat squirrel brains, and given that these countries have strong traditions of eating the whole animal, it is almost a certainty that there does exist a tradition of eating rabbit brains.

You say: Who gives a shit what you guess? Bux is saying that Adria is drawing on a wide tradition of eating rabbit brains.

I say: There is a lot that suggests eating rabbit brains is traditional in those countries as part of the traditions of eating the whole animal and eating plenty of rabbit -- actually, given those traditions, the case would have to be made against a tradition of eating rabbit brains. It is unlikely that many dishes were eaten of nothing but rabbit brains, and there is undoubtedly less eating of rabbit brains today since most rabbits are bought in markets rather than raised or hunted, but I don't think this is crucial to Bux's point.

You say: That's all just silly talk. You prove my point by saying that they probably don't eat dishes made out of only rabbit brains.

What I don't see here is anyone saying "drawing on blah, blah, Spanish traditions blah, blah." Other than you in your strawman arguments, I mean.

My main point, that you have failed to address, is:

People eat brains in these countries. People eat rabbit in these countries. Therefore using rabbit brains in a dish is not a break with tradition in the sense that it is related to these two traditions (certainly not any more of a break than anything else Adria does). This logical argument is not dependant on the supposition of "wider tradition of rabbit brain eating in Spain."

If you want to spare me the pompous rhetoric and actually discuss this point, I am happy to continue... although I have to say that I don't think you have a leg to stand on with respect to this point.

[sammy]

I say: There is a lot that suggests eating rabbit brains is traditional in those countries as part of the traditions of eating the whole animal and eating plenty of rabbit -- actually, given those traditions, the case would have to be made against a tradition of eating rabbit brains.

Sam, what do you mean by tradition? I don't know anyone other than you that would consider "eating squirrel's brains" a "tradition in the U.S., unless of course you use a widely different definition of tradition than me.

1. The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.

2a. A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage. b. A set of such customs and usages viewed as a coherent body of precedents influencing the present: followed family tradition in dress and manners. See synonyms at heritage.

3. A body of unwritten religious precepts.

4. A time-honored practice or set of such practices.

5. Law Transfer of property to another.

And secondly, why do you seem to be able to make whatever statements you want and then ask others to prove you wrong?

[Adam Balic]

Goodness, I forgot that this was the well know egullet Spanish abuse and rudeness board..

I think that you are to eager to push discussions into arguements. This is a food discussion board, get a grip for goodness sake and try to be a little more pleasant. I'm not interested in having some sad little internet flame war.

What Bux said was illogical. Nothing more then that. I was simply pointing out that there was not a well know tradition of eating rabbit brains in Spain, France or Italy.

I'm not sure why you have your knickers in such a twist over this. People in the USA eat catfish, people in the USA eat testicles. If a restuarant in the USA served catfish testicles, it would be drawing upon a rich American tradition?

The Celtic v Keltic discussion was very educational. I still haven't come up with many English words that have a hard 'K' sound before an 'e'. But, you still are wrong about emulsion sauces.

[slkinsey]

I say: There is a lot that suggests eating rabbit brains is traditional in those countries as part of the traditions of eating the whole animal and eating plenty of rabbit -- actually, given those traditions, the case would have to be made against a tradition of eating rabbit brains.

Sam, what do you mean by tradition? I don't know anyone other than you that would consider "eating squirrel's brains" a "tradition in the U.S., unless of course you use a widely different definition of tradition than me.

1. The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.

2a. A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage. b. A set of such customs and usages viewed as a coherent body of precedents influencing the present: followed family tradition in dress and manners. See synonyms at heritage.

3. A body of unwritten religious precepts.

4. A time-honored practice or set of such practices.

5. Law Transfer of property to another.

The eating of squirrel brains in certain areas of the US is definitely a "time-honored practice."

And secondly, why do you seem to be able to make whatever statements you want and then ask others to prove you wrong?

If you are basing your point on the material you quoted above, I don't quite get it. Here we have cultures in which there is a longstanding, strong and well documented tradition of eating absolutely every little bit of food animals -- intestines, organs, brains, sometimes even whole small birds bones and all. It follows then, in my opinion, that one should presuppose this is the case with all food animals in these cultures unless shown otherwise. I am not demanding others to prove me wrong in this case, I am simply stating what I think is the most reasonable logical argument. It seems counterintuitive to me that Spanish, French and Italian traditions a. which are very strong in eating the whole animal, b. which do include dishes prepared with the brains of larger animals, and c. which do eat a lot of rabbit (including all of the other organs)would somehow mysteriously not eat rabbit brains.

[Adam Balic]

I say: There is a lot that suggests eating rabbit brains is traditional in those countries as part of the traditions of eating the whole animal and eating plenty of rabbit -- actually, given those traditions, the case would have to be made against a tradition of eating rabbit brains.

Sam, what do you mean by tradition? I don't know anyone other than you that would consider "eating squirrel's brains" a "tradition in the U.S., unless of course you use a widely different definition of tradition than me.

1. The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.

2a. A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage. b. A set of such customs and usages viewed as a coherent body of precedents influencing the present: followed family tradition in dress and manners. See synonyms at heritage.

3. A body of unwritten religious precepts.

4. A time-honored practice or set of such practices.

5. Law Transfer of property to another.

The eating of squirrel brains in certain areas of the US is definitely a "time-honored practice."

And secondly, why do you seem to be able to make whatever statements you want and then ask others to prove you wrong?

If you are basing your point on the material you quoted above, I don't quite get it. Here we have cultures in which there is a longstanding, strong and well documented tradition of eating absolutely every little bit of food animals -- intestines, organs, brains, sometimes even whole small birds bones and all. It follows then, in my opinion, that one should presuppose this is the case with all food animals in these cultures unless shown otherwise. I am not demanding others to prove me wrong in this case, I am simply stating what I think is the most reasonable logical argument. It seems counterintuitive to me that Spanish, French and Italian traditions a. which are very strong in eating the whole animal, b. which do include dishes prepared with the brains of larger animals, and c. which do eat a lot of rabbit (including most of the other organs)would somehow mysteriously not eat rabbit brains.

As I said it is not impossible, infact it is likely, that at some point a Spaniard has eaten a rabbit brain. This doesn't make it a tradition. Some documentation may be nice. Infact, I have a Spanish recipe for cat cooked in tomato sauce. I suspect that I will have a easier time demonstrating (using Buxkinsey logic) that cat eating in Spain is a tradition.

Getting back to el Bulli, why the obssive need to demonstrate that he is drawing from a traditional source. He is an original thinker, why try to put limits on his creativity?

[tan319]

Adam,

I don't think there is an obsessive need to point out tradition in Adria's cooking, even though his cuisine is certainly informed / influenced by the country he is from. Indeed, most of the Spanish cookbooks I read (more pastry then savory) all have a take on, say, 'meil a mato', the honey and mato cheese dish that just about all the pastry chefs have deconstructed and reconstructed countless times. Ferrans cuisine is informed the same way to a degree.

Re: the brains discussion.

Just about everyplace in Europe likes to eat brains of some sort in a dish and I'm willing to bet that in a place like El Bulli, which is on the record, more or less as not making a profit, the use of rabbit brains is not only a logical progression from calve's brains, etc., but a smart move food cost wise.

Re: Originality. I'd say that the dish has some originality to it. Maybe they were enrobed in a thin sheet of caramel?

Also, I suppose this has already been addressed in some way but being famous, notorious, a buzzword on the lips of every culinarian for your cuisine never promised a great experience taste wise for ANYONE!

To the contrary, I think Adria is pushing the envelope for people to experience and you're welcome to hop on for the ride, bumps and all.

Edited November 3, 2003 by tan319 (log)

[Adam Balic]

Adam,

I don't think there is an obsessive need to point out tradition in Adria's cooking, even though his cuisine is certainly informed / influenced by the country he is from. Indeed, most of the Spanish cookbooks I read (more pastry then savory) all have a take on, say, 'meil a mato', the honey and mato cheese dish that just about all the pastry chefs have deconstructed and reconstructed countless times. Ferrans cuisine is informed the same way to a degree.

Re: the brains discussion.

Just about everyplace in Europe likes to eat brains of some sort in a dish and I'm willing to bet that in a place like El Bulli, which is on the record, more or less as not making a profit, the use of rabiit brains is not only a logical progression from calve's brains, etc., but a smart move food cost wise.

Re: Originality. I'd say that the dish has some originality to it. Maybe they were enrobed in a thin sheet of caramel?

Also, I suppose this has already been addressed in some way but being famous, notorious, a buzzword on the lips of every culinarian for your cuisine never promised a great experience taste wise for ANYONE!

To the contrary, I think Adria is pushing the envelope for people to experience and you're welcome to hop on for the ride, bumps and all.

tan319 - I agree with the points that you have made (hurrah!). From Adrias books that I have read (with great difficulty) he seems fond of joking references to the cooking of his region (I seem to remember his 'bacon from heaven' take, which was bacon in nougat - that was quite funny).

So I think that the brain dish evolved in the way you suggested, rather then been plucked wholesale from some rich peasant tradition of sitting down to bowl of rabbit brains and beans.

[slkinsey]

Just about everyplace in Europe likes to eat brains of some sort in a dish and I'm willing to bet that in a place like El Bulli, which is on the record, more or less as not making a profit, the use of rabiit brains is not only a logical progression from calve's brains, etc., but a smart move food cost wise.

So I think that the brain dish evolved in the way you suggested, rather then been plucked wholesale from some rich peasant tradition of sitting down to bowl of rabbit brains and beans.

I would like to point out, and in so doing to address your earlier remark concerning "buxkinsey logic," that I don't think either Bux nor I suggested that anyone ever did sit down to a bowl of "rabbit brains and beans" or that Adria's dish was "plucked wholesale from some rich peasant tradition." If that is what you have been arguing against, we have not been discussing the same thing.

What Bux suggested is that Adria's use of rabbit brains does not represent a move away from Spanish traditions per se. What I suggested is that, contrary to your assertion, Bux's statement is not illogical.

I agree with both of you that Adria's dish most likely evolved in the way tan suggests. My main difference with you is that I think eating rabbit brains is a traditional Spanish/French/Italian practice to the extent that it relates to the consumption of rabbits either hunted or raised -- which is the way most people got their rabbits prior to the 20th century.